Patiently waiting for Truth

One thing to keep in mind both now, at Armageddon and even afterwards when the rebellion at the end of  the 1000 years occurs is that none of us will ever know all the antecedents leading to a decision made by any given individual or even for that matter that of ourselves. We will never "know" that any individual "rejected the truth" of their own free will... we will simply have to trust that such is the case. We're fooling ourselves if we imagine that there will always be tangible external evidence which we can point to and say "See! They rejected the truth!"
It comes down to "Do you trust Jehovah or not?"

I would like to apologize for EVERYTHING I accused PwfT of and the acrimony generated by these discussions. I now realize that he acted honorably, and in good faith, with the reasonable assumption that I authored the cut-and-paste article from  The Babylon Bee web site, because it is MY RESPONSIBILITY as a poster to be clear and unambiguous as to attributions.
I also should have remembered what I posted, and did not.
What “lit my fire”, was the quote from what I did post …. Words of terrible import …. That I forgot were part of a biting satire by The Babylon Bee against the Jewish clergy ….  attributed to “Pudgy said”.
And so when I went looking for where I had personally said it (authored it), that is what I was looking for, and did not find it.
This whole mess is entirely my fault, and I am sorry for over-reacting, and appreciate those who called me out on it.
At the end of the day, it was my post.

Look who is talking!

I've never even heard of it. I'm in England maybe that makes a difference. Most of you are in the USA so a lot of the stuff some of you write really does go over my head. Films, television programmes, books et al. I seriously do keep myself seperate from the 'world' so i don't bother with many things. My wife and i find happiness in God's creations and we tend to keep away from much comercialism........ 

The leaders of your Org proved that when they twisted the Romans scripture to suit their own agenda. 

Do you see this continuing flow of insults from JWs ? It never stops. Those 'supposed to be' Christians, proving false to their own beliefs.  

I've never even heard of it. I'm in England maybe that makes a difference. Most of you are in the USA so a lot of the stuff some of you write really does go over my head. Films, television programmes, books et al. I seriously do keep myself seperate from the 'world' so i don't bother with many things. My wife and i find happiness in God's creations and we tend to keep away from much comercialism........ 

Whatever. You're just wasting your time and that of any anyone else who bothers w/you.

Boy, we’ve experienced that time and again in the Wt. There are keys we know we can consider when looking at “fruit” to choose from; and it should be our choice, not shoved down our throat with threats that we must submit to. 
“As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord: “My Spirit who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of your children’s children, from now on and forever,” says the Lord.” Isa 59:21
If someone is given/chosen to receive the Spirit of God, their teachings would remain. (John 13:20)
“You did not choose me, but I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he will give you.”  John 15:16
How easy it is for men to want their own ideas to fly.  Like Russell and the pyramid/1914.  Or Rutherford and Beth Sarim and his failed dates.  Franz and 1975/ Armageddon. These were selfish, ambitious acts that don’t require humility to approach God with an honest heart for direction. None of those ideas were sourced in the Spirit of God according to Isa 59:21; which tells us, these people are not “part” of Christ who is the vine.  The sap of this vine is Holy Spirit that reaches the branches.  If an anointed one does not produce “good fruit” it proves they were never Christ’s disciples. 
“I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without me. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown aside like a branch and he withers. They gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this: that you produce much fruit and prove to be my disciples.  John 15:5-8
This also shows the Wt. cannot, never has, and will not, glorify the Father – either by giving glory to His name, or to His works. It’s teachings/fruit never remains.   It certainly will not glorify the Son, whom they say directs the congregations. 
The GB are withering without the Spirit of God.  They are feeding their people “vomit”.  Incredibly they are actually regurgitating past articles, sprucing them up, and serving them again.
As a dog returns to its vomit, so also a fool repeats his foolishness. Prov 26:11
Indeed, all their tables are covered with vomit; there is no place without a stench.  Isa 28:8
Rotten “fruit” never smells appetizing.  Matt 7:15-20
 

Not a screenshot, just quoting your comment.

Again?
Pwft has already made his position quite clear.
…. and the quote from “America’s greatest news source”, internally qualified the reference as NOT “Pudgy said”.
Again … that is why context is vitally important.
If he or someone can find the contested quote and post IN CONTEXT a screen shot, that would clear the whole thing up as to who authored the contested quote, falsely attributed to me.
If I actually did author those words, I owe PwfT an apology.
I suspect the contested quote is from another topic thread (?), or completely made up by PwfT.
 
 
 
 
 

This interesting biblical quote points to another problem in WTJWorg (or in the individual believer). Religious JW leaders have been praying to God for 140 years for Bible truth and understanding. So they prayed for bread and fish. And they got something. They put it on paper and in public speeches. They developed doctrines and beliefs in these things.
Then they came to the conclusion that they did not get bread and fish, but stone and snake. They rejected doctrines and prayed to God again. Again they got something from God. So they rejected it again, because, it seems, they got a stone and a snake again.
So what's wrong with all that? Are they bad kids or is he a bad father?

“You are blessed when they insult you and persecute you and falsely say every kind of evil against you because of me."  Matt 5:11
 

Does God take truth lightly?
This is what the Lord of Armies says: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are deluding you. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the Lord’s mouth."   Jer 23:16
Does God ever change?  Does what He said yesterday about truth, and about those who claim to speak for Him - do His words hold no more authority today concerning the ample untruths taught in your organization?
 I did not send out these prophets,
yet they ran.
I did not speak to them,
yet they prophesied.
22 If they had really stood in my council,
they would have enabled my people to hear my words
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and their evil deeds.  Jer 23:21,22
So, Wt. excuses will continue.  The leaders will try desperately to gain the trust of all JWs by saying "God trusts the slave, so shouldn't you trust the slave as well?"
These are not exaggerated issues.  God and Jesus expect us to decide, to perceive, to distinguish between truth in His word, and the lies of men.  One leads to life, the other, to death.
 
 
 
 
 
 

It seems that RUSSELL didn't think your way. He said an organisation WASN'T NECESSARY. 
Being organised is necessary, but that does not mean being ruled over by men. 
Each person shoud in fact work out their own salvation w/fear and trembling, but that does not mean submitting to men. 

Tell little tommy @TrueTomHarley that I clicked so that i could answer you. I took the words directly from YOUR COMMENT as you will see if you bother to look at it. There was nothing FALSE about it. 

Is this the bit that you didn't write Pudgy ??????????????? 
I quoted direct from your comment, I'm not a JW I don't need to lie.

AND IF THE 'fw' in 'PfwT' means what i think it means, then you need a warning from @admin @JW Insider or some other administrator. 

Well back in the 1960's / 70's the JW answers were a lot different to their answers today. 
7,000 year creative days. 6,000 years of humans on earth, then Armageddon and the 1,000 years of Christ's reign.
Simple wasn't it ?  BUT WRONG. How many times have the JW answers changed ? 
So maybe in 10 years time all the JW answers wil be different again. 
 

And the insults continue. JWs can you not even write one comment without insults ? By their works you will know them. 

You have dismissed the power of God, the power Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, by lumping the organization’s errors on “imperfect people”.
To his disciples:
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?  Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!”
Check your list of changed doctrine.  Was any of it provided by Jesus Christ?  Can it be compared to bread, or to a stone? To fish, or to a snake?
So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
All JWs were and are, chained to false teachings, because your leaders did not, and do not, ask Jesus for knowledge.  They did not “continue” in his word in order to be blessed with truth.  Their word has become much more important than the words of Jesus Christ.
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you."  John 14:26
Nothing on the list of Beliefs Clarified was truth. You must admit that according to his words, Jesus didn't have a hand in your leadership's understanding.  It is list of myths; all of it, is the “doctrine of men”. The scriptures give clear proof that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit did not provide any of it. You should wonder if God approves of men's doctrine superseding the doctrine of His Son, Jesus Christ.
“ For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will reject the truth and chase after myths.”  2 Tim 4:2-4
What are JWs chasing after now?  What apparent “truth” are they looking forward to seeing fulfilled?  And why do they get so excited when new doctrine takes the place of old?  
They look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

No, the choice is whether one listens to truth or to lies.  
You have contradicted yourself.  The Catholic Church was instrumental in preserving the Bible to a degree, yet you say the dragnet are the "nominal Christian organizations."   
You were an elder, and as an elder you replaced  God's chosen priesthood. (1 Pet 2:5,9) You "represented" that priesthood, that spiritual temple; which is an abomination to God. (Ezek 44:6-9) The dragnet is the organization you belong to, and where the "man of lawlessness" is "standing where it should not"; it is filling in for God's chosen priests and transgressing His spiritual Temple.  (1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)  The anointed remnant are under siege in your organization. (Rev 20:7-9)  Do you agree that they should not gather together and study the words of their Master, Jesus Christ - all because it transgresses the unity of the organization?   
Where does it say in God's word, that an earthly organization's unity is more important than His priesthood carrying out their "daily sacrifices" of praise to Him?  (Dan 11:31; 8:25; Matt 24:15,16)
 

You need to change your font or whatever it’s called ….I go cross eyed trying to read your posts…it’s terrible to read…
Im not reprimanding you……you frustrate  me more than anything….and yes I notice the problems with in the org…..and I’ve tried to explain to you numerous times about this…..
I see some of the things you point out….I’ve lived thru some terrible cruelness that even unbelievers would not condone….and I don’t defend any of it.
But I also know that the organization is not all like my old cong ….and tho I’ve absolutely detested with the greatest loathing what was allowed……I also have experienced wonderful moments with a vast array of different personalities with in the org…some of the best memories of my life have been with in the truth….and some of the very worst as well.
I remember the good…I see the good…and I choose to stay around those types .
The difference between you and me….is I never ever did see the org as something perfect….I went in with my eyes wide open to the errors…fortunately I had enough brothers and sisters around me who were grounded and down to earth.
The salt of the earth types….I also had the super apostles…I also looked at many other faiths…
Unfortunately and to my utter devastation,,,JWs were the only ones who had all my questions answered correctly….yet even then I saw what I considered a lot of errors….and I wondered why….and eventually I worked it out…
Now you have to work it out…..yes they always taught that first paragraph you wrote….I still hear it from time to time…..but it’s a old thought…and old teaching…and I wish we had never taught it….and it will probably take another generation for it to die out completely…….but my guess is it came from Rutherford claiming the ark represented the org….the org is just a huge group of people….from all walks of life..with all different personalities and cultures….somehow when we meet a fellow witness in another town or country …automatically we have a bond ….like it or not…there has to be a captain of  the ship….we have eight men who are just men…some I enjoy more than others…..some I take note of more than others …some thoughts I disagree with…overall they have done a incredible job in getting some basic truths out there…and keeping a huge massive family in reasonable order in a world collapsing around them….I don’t worship them and I second guess them all the time…and there has been a number of heart wrenching casualties along the way…..What do you want me to say Sreko…that we are a wonderful bubbly happy lot of people who worship the GB as if they were rocket men ….Like gods from North Korea….some do…a lot dont…and no a lot of us are tired and weary..grumpy..worn out…trying to live in a world run by and evil dictator named Satan…
Why are you here..why do you talk with me???…go and be happy with your faith..preach the good news and be satisfied with that…and if we are wrong….we die….

You're flat out wrong AND you have no common sense to boot. What is the dragnet, if not the disparate nominal Christian organizations? How CAN you NOT isolate yourself like the selfish do w/o an organization? How WOULD the Bible have been preserved w/o an organization to do so.
Being part of an organization is critical and you have to make a choice. Pretend you aren't as corrupt and flawed as those you might sneer at, or work out your own salvation w/fear and trembling WITHIN an organization which YOU feel is supporting your efforts BETTER than the others.

You're saying that there have been no missionaries "preaching" to people in Calcutta at their doors over the years?  Are you also saying that in your Armageddon, these people will not be destroyed?
So, the  choice is to associate with JWs, the only choice that JWs comprehend when a person studies Wt literature with them, which is to join the physical organization.  Is that how they are sanctified?  John 17:17
What does this mean?  According to Jesus what should someone do?  Be dedicated to an organization?  Where in his words does he say this?  Can you show me from the scriptures, or is it only your organization  that says this?  Who's words do JWs listen to?  he Holy Spirit is not restricted to an earthly organization; and believe me, where lies are found - false teachings that cannot be dismissed, Holy Spirit will not be found there.   Jesus said, "For this purpose I have been born, and for this I have come into the world: to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to My voice.”
We have that truth in the scriptures. Do you really believe that Jesus' voice is heard through your leadership that can't even understand his words about "this generation"?  Men, who keep setting dates contrary to what the scriptures tell us? Men who tell their flock that there will be two Armageddon, one now and one a thousand years later?   Are these men truly on the side of truth?
@Arauna, @Thinking - 
"Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev 7:9,10,15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."    km 11/1990
This is idolatry.  The organization was built "on the earth", "like" other organizations found on the earth.  It was created by men.  Rom 1:25  It is interesting that students are to be directed to what they can literally see established in Satan's world.  1 John 5:19  
‘You shall have no other gods besides Me.
8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 9 You shall not worship them nor serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, inflicting the punishment of the fathers on the children, even on the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing favor to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."  Deut 5:7-10
As I said, Jesus never taught the foundation members of his temple, to build an earthly organization. They were the "organization" - a heavenly, spiritual one, built on his body.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22