Patiently waiting for Truth

@TrueTomHarley  I honestly cannot make any sense from your sarcastic comment so I will try to break it down to reason on it.
online hate campaign    Romans 12 :9  "Love must be sincere. Detest what is evil; cling to what is good." 
I hate what should be hated.   But i close no doors.  My wife knows that i have a love for God and Christ. She also knows the truth about the Watchtower Soc  / GB / JW Org.  
Tom this honestly makes no sense to me.  When I was a JW my behaviour was polite and loving to all in the congregation, except the Elders.  I treated the Elders with caution but not rudeness.  Then i did three months research, and through prayer and personal Bible study, I came to my own conclution as to what i must do.  Knowing that the Elders would disapprove of my action and would announce by their 'normal method', I privately told a few brothers individually, of my plan to leave the Org, and gave them my reasons.  I then emailed my resignation to as many elders as possible giving them my reasons for leaving.  
Your comment seems to be mixing up my time in the congregation, with my time on here.  There is no connection between the two.  Of course people presume that i was disfellowshipped, that is the whole idea, from your GB, to announce it from the platform as the Elders do.  And this Elder that phoned my wife made it very clear that it is for that purpose.  Because the Elders, taking instruction from the GB, through the ranks, are told to make it look so.  
is to accuse.  I think what I've done in many instances, is to state facts.  And in many cases I've used scripture from God's word to prove things.  
Jehovah’s organization. That is a matter of oppinion.  The Nation of Israel was God's chosen nation, BUT we all know that said nation did not serve God properly. To the extent that they murdered Jesus Christ, and God had that Nation destroyed physically and spiritually.  So just because an organisation gives itself a name that represents God, it does not mean that said organistion is serving God properly, or that said organisation has the approval of God or Christ. 
You mock my idea of a True Anointed, but you know that I am not anointed, nor do I pretend to be.  So, i am not pushing myself forward, i am not saying I am special. Unlike the GB who DO push themselves forward by stating that only they are the F&DS, and only they are God's spokesperson on Earth, and only they should be believed, WHILST they are  treading down all of their Fellow Slaves, as mentioned in scripture. 
Coffee time.  Have a good day Tom.   Christian love to all. 

I am not scoffing, but when an organisation cries wolf many times and there is no wolf, then trust runs out.
I know it's coming, but it's coming  'as a thief in the night'  and we do not know 'the day or the hour'.  So i don't think an Elder should say it is months not years. As i said we will continue to disagree. 
WW1 happened because of the invention of machines, vehicles, aeroplanes, bombs, machine guns, all improved weapons of war, so it made war easier and more able to cover larger areas. 
Lockdown is due to a virus, either man made or accidental. But lockdown is because of the knoledge of how the virus spreads and therefore trying to stop it.  
I will not read into things to try to pretend they represent phrophecy ........... 

Some JWs fall into some kind of sin and do not feel repentant. They find Jehovahs laws too restrictive and then quickly disfellowship themselves before they are accountable for their misdeeds. 
There are not always good reasons for leaving Jehovah - while I believe this is rare possibility - it is not the rule. 

Whatever announcement that was made would have taken the form, “4Jah is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” And you’re not. So go your way in peace, for crying out loud.
Exactly. At one time you were. Now you are not. And now everyone understands this. So it’s a win-win.
Yes, I know you would like them to keep your new status under their hats so that maybe individual congregation members will stop by out of concern and you can fill their ears with vitriol about the organization they’ve chosen. I know that you would like them to call a special assembly so that you could explain to all your beefs and why you are choosing your “high road.”
It’s not going to happen. Not everything is about you.
And everyone at the KH has the opposite opinion. They approve of that organization. It is not good enough for you, but it is good enough for them. So why in the world are you so upset? It is no more than the elder’s lowering the boom on anyone who would promote sects or cause division in the congregation—and they are scripturally bound to do this.
Yes, I know you are just dying to try to sway them. This fine forum may be as close as you will get.

What sin has the man committed that requires a change of heart?  Is it for leaving the organization?  That is not found as a sin in the Bible.  God is not an organization, and an organization is not Almighty God.  Why do JWs compare God to a man made corporation?  Are you counting God as equal to the organization?  This is idolatry.  Isa 46: 5
Now, that is a grave sin.
The disgusting thing stands in the Temple of God, where it doesn't belong. (Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)  Who rules over the anointed "living stones"/Temple of God? (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) The abomination that causes desolation is in the face of all JWs.  4Jah and his wife are wise to leave the organization behind.  (Matt 24:15,16)
“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ (meaning "anointed") or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time."  (Matt 24:22-25)
 

I am not scoffing, but when an organisation cries wolf many times and there is no wolf, then trust runs out.
I know it's coming, but it's coming  'as a thief in the night'  and we do not know 'the day or the hour'.  So i don't think an Elder should say it is months not years. As i said we will continue to disagree. 
WW1 happened because of the invention of machines, vehicles, aeroplanes, bombs, machine guns, all improved weapons of war, so it made war easier and more able to cover larger areas. 
Lockdown is due to a virus, either man made or accidental. But lockdown is because of the knoledge of how the virus spreads and therefore trying to stop it.  
I will not read into things to try to pretend they represent phrophecy ........... 

That is so funny  .   Then it seems you believe he has the authority to condemn me. 
Why would i need to 'have a change of heart' about the sins commited by the GB and all those supporting the GB ? 
Arauna, I love God and Christ, but i do not need to be judged by Elders of the Watchtower / JW org. 
It seems that 'time has been running out' since 1914 according to the Watchtower / JW Org. 
Of course i believe in the coming Judgement / Armageddon, because that is from scripture, not from the GB  / Org. But it is not the Elder's place to pretend he knows when the End is coming.  My wife may be deeply worried now when she really has no need to worry.  My faith is in God through Christ, and that is how I will be judged. 
 

This is of no concern to me BUT it did upset my wife. And when an Elder upsets my wife THAT IS of concern to me. 
An Elder phoned today asking to speak to my wife. I called my wife to the phone then I left the room.  The phone conversation was quite long and during that conversation the Elder said to my wife that I am disfellowshipped. My wife replied that I wasn't disfellowshipped but that i had disassociated myself from the Organisation. The Elder replied "It all means the same to us". 
Just think on that for a while. ...........  That Elder has basically condemned me to death....  Then at the end of the phone call he said he may phone me to try to talk me into going back.  Oh dear.  Does he really think he has any authority from God ? 
But my point is, that this is PROOF positive of how Elders think and act.  This is not theory, it's FACT. Elders really believe they have some authority from God, to condemn to death or to reprieve. 
We NEED God through Christ to provide a True Anointed remnant to guide an Organisation to serve God properly, before the Judgement arrives..  
Update :  Having had further conversation with my wife about the phone call, she tells me that the Elder said (concerning Armageddon) "It's not years away, it's months away". ... So it seems this Elder  has special insight, he seems to know the 'day and the hour'  But no. In reality it's just another threat.  He was trying to frighten my wife. Such a cowardly thing to do. THIS IS HOW Elders work. 
 

You sound like a family member of Noah..... 120 years.  Many years preaching and preparing the physical "sign" in front of them BUT their hearts remained like a stone.
Only when the rain started coming did they realize this is it because they had never seen rain before.  In about 7 months time I would like to see your observations and your scoffing again.   No signs EH? 
The horses which started running in 1914 is running much faster now and gaining momentum. Pangs of distress is already every minute....... 
 

I thing this is deceitful of you to say this.   I think you will find fault just because he dared to call about you.  The smallest thing will make you mad.

I know my bible prophecies and then look for the signs of it going into fulfillment.  I follow politics just to see what is going into fulfillment. The prophecies is my first love - not politics.

Of course he is thinking that things can escalate very quickly...... once the UN has their way and turn against all religion ....  things will move pretty fast

You decided it is a threat because your heart condemns you..... wake up!  He is trying to wake you up as time is running out.

On the other hand, since you carry on endlessly that he and his are full of BS, what do you care?
Besides, “basically” condemning you to death is not actually condemning you to death—you know he didn’t phrase it that way. He may think of it that way, barring your (astronomically) unlikely repentance, but if so, that will be because JWs are a “one true faith” religion, and there are many of those.
What is this guy—a glutton for punishment? Look, save him the trip, will you?  Put him in the know. If he will call back, it is because  he is concerned about your spiritual well-being, and you should tell him not to waste his time because you are well beyond caring what he says.
Or rather, don’t tell him. Just call his attention to your performance here, and he will get the point. Make sure to tell him about how you believe we may just be a few short years, even months, to the end, with no anointed at all to help us out, but you are confident that the “True anointed” will manifest itself from nowhere and, as it were, slide into home plate with just minutes to spare in order to save the day.

Because nothing happened that Russell predicted based on his interpretations of the Bible and secular history, it should be obvious that the underlying chronological calculations were bogus.
Not really. What happened is a lot more complicated. Rutherford used 1874 rather than 1914 until the early 1930s. Then over the next decade, Rutherford and Franz gradually migrated everything about 1874 to 1914. I cover some of this in a recent essay, if you're interested.
But when a group of religious leaders claim to speak for God, and to be guided by him, and to be God's mouthpiece, and to receive angelic direction, that's a lot more significant than in other spheres of life. After all, scientists won't disfellowship you from some organization merely because you contradict the ideas of prominent scientists. And they don't claim to speak for God, but for themselves, by writing papers that marshal evidence and try to convince other scientists by weight of evidence rather than weight of authority.

Yes, I know.
But there was talk of 1914, and the gentile times ending, even though nothing like what he expected happened. I also know that since all expectations about it failed, 1914 got swept under the carpet for a long time, to be "resurrected" some time in the 1940's. JW history is not quite honest about that, and gives the impression that although Russell was disappointed, 1914 was always believed to be the year Jesus was enthroned, which as we know is not true. Nevertheless, it doesn't bother me too much (the dishonesty does) because I expect understanding to progress over time. It's like that in every sphere of life, medicine, science, technology etc....

Perhaps it was mentioned before in another topic, but i am fascinated how WTJWorg authors of their book "Let your Kingdom come" use common terminology to discredit others who have opposing views. They said: 
From a secular viewpoint, such lines of evidence might seem to establish the Neo-Babylonian chronology with Nebuchadnezzar’s 18th year (and the destruction of Jerusalem) in 587/6 B.C.E. However, no historian can deny the possibility that the present picture of Babylonian history might be misleading or in error. It is known, for example, that ancient priests and kings sometimes altered records for their own purposes. Or, even if the discovered evidence is accurate, it might be misinterpreted by modern scholars or be incomplete so that yet undiscovered material could drastically alter the chronology of the period.
If we want to do this, we can very easily use all these specific terms to describe the way many biblical scholars in WTJWorg work when interpreting Biblical history and the alleged "prophecies" that have "second fulfillment".
 

How? If you can't answer I assume you just made this up.
You seem to have this idea that you must be right at all costs, and you won't let facts get in the way.
My father always jokes: "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts!"

Anointed or not, nobody is worth to be "followed" in this Organizational/Religious sense we speaking about, no matter where they or we are in this particular moment. GB and Elders, they seek to be obeyed. If you obey them than you in same moment "follow them". 
And they ask that from members although they give the wrong/err instructions and teachings. And (many or few times) they are aware that they are giving bad and wrong instructions. 
If we are not supposed to follow "Paul and Peter", why JW's looking on GB and Elders with exactly such undesirable mind and heart attitudes ?

Or, why not advance from several mistakes to less mistakes? We are not supposed to look for "True Anointed" because this would make us followers of men. Do you assume that Paul and Peter were "True Anointed"? If so, remember that persons in the Christian congregation were NOT supposed to follow them. Peter and Paul and others made serious mistakes. This is why the only "True Anointed" we follow is Jesus Christ.

I was harsh, because the more I study it, the more I believe that one MUST use deception to keep any kind of "prophetic chronology" going. I see the way that F.W.Franz toyed with language to keep people hyped up about 1975. I see the way that Rutherford was using deceptive language to keep people hyped up about 1925. And then looking back at Miller and Barbour I see the same thing. I just read some of Harold Camping's predictions for May 21, 2011 and I see the same exact style. And, as I started to write up what I saw in the Jon & Cameron conversation, I saw some of the same.
This doesn't mean the deception is on purpose. We "inherit" our beliefs about chronology, just as Russell "inherited" them from Nelson Barbour. Just as I expect that you personally believed this material about 1914 when you were a Witness because you "inherited" it from your teachers, a combination of the person who studied with you, and the Watchtower publications, and from the platform, as it were. You weren't being purposely deceptive when you shared this with others. But you were using the same deceptive language, highlighting innuendos and skipping inconsistencies. It's just one of those traditions, in my opinion, that makes the word of God invalid. (I say this because this particular tradition does indeed invalidate the very counsel of the Scriptures.)
But that inherited tradition about chronology doesn't invalidate all the other teachings. It just means that we have to prove to ourselves and make sure of all things. It was the same principle Jesus taught his audience:
(Matthew 23:1-3) . . .Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe,. . .
The Scribes and Pharisees were incorrect about several things, and yet Jesus could tell his audience to do and observe all the things they tell you. Jehovah reads hearts and judges us individually before the judgment seat.
 

Just wanted to add a consideration of a very odd (to me) use of Daniel 4:17 as a way, not to prove that Jesus was humble, but as if Daniel 4:17 was a reference to the way Jesus' enemies viewed Jesus. The exact logic of this Watchtower article still escapes me:
*** w05 10/15 p. 27 par. 6 Cultivate Genuine Humility ***
That was the greatest example of humility and love ever set by one of God’s creatures. Not all appreciated Jesus’ humility, his enemies even considering him to be “the lowliest one of mankind.” (Daniel 4:17)
And yet here, it was humility:
*** w90 10/15 p. 18 par. 15 Be Thankful—Jehovah’s Messianic Kingdom Rules ***
Only one person came to be qualified in all respects to be called “the lowliest one of mankind.” The only-begotten Son of God proved himself to be such by willingly leaving his heavenly glory to be born as a human, as Jesus, who suffered the most humiliating and cruel death at Satan’s hand. (Philippians 2:3, 5-11)
 

The glitch I am speaking of is the following:
(But first some doctrinal history because I know how much certain people here just love doctrinal history.)
Russell left the "1914" doctrine in disarray by predicting so many things for it that failed. And even changing the "End of the Gentile Times" to 1915, and at least once also implying that the "Jewish Year 1915" could run from October 1915 to October 1916. But even Rutherford had continued to create a mess around the 1914 problem by waffling on 1914 for a while, pushing for 1918, then 1925, and only very slowly giving up on the the idea that the "End of the Gentile Times" was still going to be a Jewish mitzvah in Palestine.
It took Rutherford a while to give up on the great pyramid, and the seven or so other evidences for reaching 1914 by using 'divine proofs for 1874' plus the 40-year harvest. Including "parallel dispensations" in Old Testament Israel as the proof of divine origin of our chronology. Although even this last 1914 proof, he had "messed with," by adjusting "1874+40=1914" to 1878 plus a 40-year harvest to reach 1918. (1878+40=1918)The old emphasis on Elijah passing the mantle to Elisha would give Rutherford a more personal sense of scriptural authority, when he moved the date out of Russell's time slot and into the start of his own presidency in 1918. The same idea carried over into the "ns" book when that entire Russell/Rutherford transition was moved from 1918 to 1942 to represent the Rutherford/Knorr-Franz transition where "Elijah" was now the time under Rutherford's presidency and "Elisha" became the transition to the time of the Knorr/[Franz] presidency).
[edited to add: No one should get the idea that 1914 had been downplayed as a doctrine. The war broke out in 1914, and by mid-1915 the doctrine was being explained pretty much as it is now, but still with Zionist overtones, and with the background chronological reasons in question or in flux. By 1916 the "parousia" signs were being added to it. But that old consistent stable basis for 1914 was being shaken a bit. And Daniel 4 had not been utilized very much, even for the 2,520 years. Articles mentioning the 2,520 years did NOT include Daniel 4. I might add an explanation of what I mean here under another topic.]
So when Rutherford died (1942), it was up to F.W.Franz to push hard for the tree dream prophecy again because all those other methods now needed to be dropped completely. Officially Christ's presence was still 1874 right up until about 1943:
*** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” . . .  Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia.
The book just mentioned, "The Truth Shall Make You Free," was the first big push on the chronology of 1914 in quite a while. But this was back before the NWT was available, and we often used the American Standard Version, and Rotherham's translation. This is where and when the first glitch was much more visible, and had to be overcome. Note page 240 of the book:
To whom does Jehovah give the heavenly overlordship over all men of good-will in A.D. 1914? Daniel4: 17 answers: "To the intent that the living may know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men." "One low among men he setteth up over it." (Roth.)
Humiliating Nebuchadnezzar with insanity and making him eat with the beasts was a way of showing just how low and beastly these kingdoms of men really were, but that Jehovah was still so far above them, that almost "on a whim" Jehovah could prove just how "base" these rulers were that he allowed to rule in the kingdom of men.
So this entire parable was not about the Kingdom of God, but about how "base" and "beastly" were these relatively weak and transient humans who thought they were so great in the kingdom of men.
So the first thing to do is get rid of that phrase the "basest of men." Rotherham helped here. If it can apply to Jesus, we could get away with "lowest" instead of "basest" because then we could use Jesus' humility, or his perceived stature by those who were not of honest hearts. Even this is a problem, because Jesus wasn't really "low." It's just that people were mistaken when they considered him "low." (Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" Isn't he the carpenter's son? How can he say he existed before Abraham? etc.)
So page 241 of the same 1943 book goes on:
God has not given the 'kingdom of men" to totalitarian and religious dictators, who are wicked demonized men. Jehovah God has given the heavenly kingdom of the new world to the one whom politicians, commercial traffickers and religious clergy despjse as the "basest of men", namely, Christ Jesus, who was nailed to a tree between two thieves.
Note the deceptive twisting of the Bible's words here. With a kind of sleight of hand, and taking advantage of the negative opening in the sentence, Franz makes the "kingdom of men" represent "the heavenly kingdom." And while Daniel 4 was about a truly vicious beast who needed to be humiliated for his haughtiness, "the basest of men," Jesus is only falsely accused of being the basest of men. There is no need to humiliate Jesus for his haughtiness. Jesus is not a vicious beast. Jesus does not need to be taught a lesson by making him go insane.
So over the years, there has been a near disappearance of this explanation about how Jesus is like the "basest of men." And tricks of language are still being used to try to make the parallel between the return of wicked, pagan, gentile Nebuchadnezzar after 7 years to refer to the return of the Jewish Messianic Kingdom through the enthronement of Jesus Christ, who was not wicked, pagan, or gentile -- after 7 "times."

Leaven can be bad or good? Enduring suffering? Cyrus as Jehovah's "servant" for releasing the Jews from Babylon? Nebuchadnezzar as Jehovah's "servant" for punishing wicked Jerusalem? The angel of death? Blood on a doorpost? Birth pangs? The sword of the superior authorities? Jehovah's discipline? The goat of Azazel? The vicious she-bears that apparently did Elisha's bidding in mauling some children to death for making fun of his bald head?
I don't think that you would have that much trouble finding various and sundry things in the Bible that could be rationalized as "bad" but ultimately represent something "good." More to the point, Cyrus and Nebuchadnezzar were both "tools" in Jehovah's hand as he allowed them to advance their beastly rule for their own motives, but their beastly motives served Jehovah's purpose at the time.
But this particular dream about a tree had created a special problem for Witnesses because of the difficulties in making Nebuchadnezzar picture Jesus. For a few years Nebuchadnezzar was allowed to be a type of the antitype Jesus, and then that was changed so that Nebuchadnezzar was explicitly no longer considered a type or picture of Jesus.
Now, as of 2015, we even have a more general "rule" that we should never apply types and antitypes to Biblical narratives, and parables, unless the Bible tells us explicitly to do so.
The tree dream is most definitely a "parable" but we make an exception to the rule for it, and of course, we must make an exception for the rule about the parable of the "faithful and discreet slave and the wicked slave."
 
But there are some special glitches in this parable that have caused trouble for the WTS publications. Most of the glitches have been discussed on this forum. But there is one serious one that has barely been touched upon. And it pretty much ruins the whole use of this parable as a prophecy about the Messianic Kingdom.
And it's the . . . . . (next post)

It can be. The same can be said for WTJWorg "bible scholars" :)) who dealing with the possible interpretations (hidden messages aka second fulfillment) of biblical verses. 
There is no independent support for the tradition in Daniel of Nebuchadnezzar’s seven years’ madness, and the story probably arose from a fanciful later interpretation of texts concerned with events under Nabonidus, who showed apparent eccentricity in deserting Babylon for a decade to live in Arabia. -https://www.britannica.com/biography/Nebuchadnezzar-II
Perhaps, some of you will have time to deal with this quote.
How is possible that Babylonian empire, throne and king who are full of religious doctrines and secular ideas that are in opposition to JHVH can REPRESENT His RULERSHIP?  
You mean like, GB sitting on JHVH throne, in sense to represent JHVH's will today? If they are or become bad JHVH will removed them by some secular power? In local or global way? In local way, Russia acted under JHVH will to remove some bad elements in Russian WT Branch? And what is next? On global scale Gog of Magog will also done JHVH will? Who can "put own hand in fire" to claim how GB in WTJWorg is not under same judgement as those old kings in Jerusalem ??