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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in A COMMENT FOR A MEMBER, AND ALL JWS   
    Only the spiritually blind would not comprehend that the falsehoods your organization has promoted as "truth"...are really, truly, most definitely - lies.  (John 12:40)
     
    You are right.  We are either for the God of Truth, or the god of the lie. 
    Jesus told us how to discern the difference between good fruit and bad fruit – good teachings and bad teachings. It is not according to how it looks, but how it spiritually nourishes.   He told us that in the last days there would be false apostles, false “christs”/anointed, false teachers/wolves in sheep's clothing – all claiming to be sent by him, who would deceive his own people – the “elect”.  They would produce bad fruit.  Should we throw caution to the wind and reject his warnings? (Matt 7:15-20; 24:23,24; Luke 21:8; Acts 20:29)
    If you were offered two pieces of fruit from two different trees, you have a choice of which one you would like to eat.  However, after taking a few bites of the one you chose, you find it rotting in the center of it.  What will you do, continue to relish that piece of fruit?  Wouldn’t you throw it away and choose another piece?  If you realized that the tree producing the rotting fruit is diseased, causing all of its fruit to be unfit to eat, wouldn’t you choose the other healthy tree for your access of good fruit?
    What if a JW walked up to an elder and told him that he wanted to present the Revelation Book and the “Truth” book in his preaching work.  The elder will say, “Haven’t you heard?  We are discarding those books, along with many others.”  Your leaders have been sporadically discarding past publications since the organization's inception. Consider that each book discarded, is a piece of fruit with rotten teachings found within its pages, that even your leaders must hide from you. (Prov 10:11) Also, any donated funds used to publish “fruit” no longer offered by your leaders, went down the drain with the books. 
    And you say, God is with this organization - an organization of wasteful teachings, rotten fruit?
    To claim that you choose God, while another who rejects rotten teachings by your organization, as having chosen Satan, is a very twisted concept.  God sent His Son to teach us how to discern false prophets, and those whom he sends. (John 15:4-8,16)  God also does not excuse falsehoods that place people’s feet on a crooked path. (Prov 2:10-15)
    But JWs, are excusing your teachers’ inability to produce lasting fruit – fruit that does not expire.  Doesn’t the Father expects us to take Jesus’ words to heart?  (Matt 17:5)  This is the decision we must make, and it is cut and dry.  Either we listen to Christ’s teachings and warnings, or the teachings of men who falsely prophesy, and who will bite your hand if you dare not feed into their self-imposed dominance, over all of Christ’s servants.  Read Micah 3:5-7  (Matt 24:48-51)
    “Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.” James 3:1
    “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.”
    Because your teachers influence JWs to “eat” their diseased fruit, they are not the only ones “denying” Jesus Christ, by denying his teachings.  All JWs are involved.  How so?
    “But I tell you, on the day of judgment people will have to give an accounting for every careless or useless word they speak. 37 For by your words [reflecting your spiritual condition] you will be justified and acquitted of the guilt of sin; and by your words [rejecting Me] you will be condemned and sentenced.”  Matt 12:36,37 AMP
    We must remember that Jesus, the “light of the world”, would not produce the darkness found in  discarded teachings. (John 8:12; 12:46)
    “for the fruit of the light consists of all goodness, righteousness, and truth”  Eph 5:9
    Why do you feel it necessary to uphold an organization known for its “useless words”, that your leadership at one time called, “knowledge”? 
    “Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding irreverent and empty speech and contradictions from what is falsely called knowledge.
    By professing it, some people have departed from the faith. Grace be with you all.” 1 Tim 6:20,21
     
     
     
     
     
  2. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    JWs seem to approve of the GB saying that Anointed ones should not gather together, and the GB saying that the Anointed ones would be working 'against the Holy Spirit' if they did gather together.  If JWs do not protest against this then they are supporting the GB in beating the their fellow slaves as mentioned in Matthew 24 v 48 & 49
     “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards
    Now why would JWs support their GB in beating the Anointed Ones ? Why wouldn't JWs rather make it known that they disapprove of the  GB's actions ?  Proof is in the actions of the GB and in the actions of those that worship the GB. 
    The GB ARE beating the True Anointed and the GB could be considered as eating an drinking with drunkards, because the GB use dishonest Lawyers and dishonest legal practices. The GB also seem more concerned with money than with people's suffering. 
    The GB have proved themselves to be disloyal to God and Christ by calling themselves the F&DS and by exalting themselves above all other people on this earth. Whereas the True Anointed are truly the highest people on this earth, the ones that Jesus dies for. Ref. Revelation 5 v 9 & 10.
     And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth"
    And this is why your GB are so jealous, Because Christ died for the True Anointed Ones.
    There is so much proof that honest hearted ones can see. Anyone that stays in the CCJW and continues to worship it's GB and the Elder system, will pay the price. Just as those that remained in Jerusalem in 70 C. E. payed the price. 
  3. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    JWs seem to approve of the GB saying that Anointed ones should not gather together, and the GB saying that the Anointed ones would be working 'against the Holy Spirit' if they did gather together.  If JWs do not protest against this then they are supporting the GB in beating the their fellow slaves as mentioned in Matthew 24 v 48 & 49
     “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards
    Now why would JWs support their GB in beating the Anointed Ones ? Why wouldn't JWs rather make it known that they disapprove of the  GB's actions ?  Proof is in the actions of the GB and in the actions of those that worship the GB. 
    The GB ARE beating the True Anointed and the GB could be considered as eating an drinking with drunkards, because the GB use dishonest Lawyers and dishonest legal practices. The GB also seem more concerned with money than with people's suffering. 
    The GB have proved themselves to be disloyal to God and Christ by calling themselves the F&DS and by exalting themselves above all other people on this earth. Whereas the True Anointed are truly the highest people on this earth, the ones that Jesus dies for. Ref. Revelation 5 v 9 & 10.
     And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth"
    And this is why your GB are so jealous, Because Christ died for the True Anointed Ones.
    There is so much proof that honest hearted ones can see. Anyone that stays in the CCJW and continues to worship it's GB and the Elder system, will pay the price. Just as those that remained in Jerusalem in 70 C. E. payed the price. 
  4. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to paulus in A COMMENT FOR A MEMBER, AND ALL JWS   
    You condemn yourself by your words and your ignorance, Its obvious to a blind man that Jehovahs spirit is with his organisation. You are the one sinning against the spirit in My view (but i maybe wrong, i often am,) by trying to mislead and lead astray the week ones who need to be encouraged not discouraged. THIER LIVES are in your hands. I too am disfellowshipped but would never stupidly bite the hand that feeds me or hopefully saves me regardless of my standing in Jehovahs organisation. People are imperfect and make mistakes if you cant move on and forget the past you have no hope for the future. Stop this nonsense or leave as you have sugested and do us all a favour. May Jehovah have mercy on you if your are worthy.
  5. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in A COMMENT FOR A MEMBER, AND ALL JWS   
    I know my presence here is intolerable to JWs. Many times, I have thought of leaving and never returning. (Matt 10:14) Although, I do appreciate those who visit this forum and believe in the words of Christ over the words of men. (John 8:31; 2 Tim 4:3)
    I admit also that I have noticed fleeting remarks made by you and a few other JWs,  who have expressed some empathy for those not in the organization.  But this thought conflicts with your teachings, that only those faithful to the organization, will “live forever”.  (Exod 23:13,24,32; Isa 57:13; Rev 13:1,2,4 ) It must create a personal struggle for some who care to reach out, but still fully believe that all outside the organization will be destroyed.
    Yet, every sin committed by your leadership is passed by, ignored and forgotten by the mind; developing a harden crust over your heart. (Matt 13:13-15)  This prevents you from distinguishing truth from a lie, good from evil.  The heart of a JW cannot discern the importance of the “holy” priesthood, from the “profane” – the elder body not only “representing the royal priesthood” but trampling its voice into the dust.  (Ps 52:1-7; Hos 4:6-9; Jer 18:12; John 3:20) (Ezek 44:6-10,23,24; Jer 12:10,11; Dan 11:31; Mark 13:14;Rev 11:2)
    The organization has hidden its worst crimes from its members; yet meticulously keeps record of each individual’s “good” service and sinful failings; to draw upon, scrutinize and condemn.  This is evil hypocrisy.  (Deut 16:19; Prov 17:5; Mal 3:5) 
    Perhaps you can you tell me where in the teachings of Jesus, this practice can be validated? (Luke 11:42,46)
    The eight men who guide the organization are excused of their errors in doctrine, due to their ability to smooth over their sins with continued false promises. (Isa 29:15; Jer 16:17; Prov 5:3,4; Rom 1:18; 2 Pet 2:1,2; Rev 8:10,11;13:11;17:1)
    If the Wt. is God’s Zion, where the law of love, and righteousness are the foundation of truth, should there be an evolutionary timetable of suffering, depression, even death as a result of doctrine initiated outside of God’s Word? (Isa 2:2,3) (Deut 4:2; Mark 7:6,8,13)
    “Every word of God is flawless;
        He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
    6 Do not add to His words,
        or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.”  Prov 30:5,6
    This horrific timetable has increased in magnitude as the organization has grown; through its perpetual driving force in renewed doctrine and the “false apostles” who lead you. (2 Chron 10:4,13,14; Rev 9:3-5; 13:5-7,11,12; 2 Cor 11:13; 2 Tim 3:12,13)
     Should millions of past and present JWs be the target of affliction by men’s bad decisions? Should anyone be disfellowshipped for calling out from under the carpet, those deliberate delusions spoken of as “truth” during its heyday? Shouldn’t these men be called out for speaking obvious lies?  (Ps 94:4-7,20,21) 
    What do you think Jesus would do in this case?  Who did he say was the source of lies, and who has as their father, anyone who teaches lies? (John 8:44; Matt 7:15-20)
    “You reject all who stray from your decrees, for their delusions come to nothing.”  Ps 119:118
    “How long will you people turn My glory into shame? How long will you love delusions and seek false gods?”  Ps 4:2
    How can these men not inspired, be “spiritual betters” as you call them, of anyone, when they have bestowed upon themselves and their “body” of counterfeit priests, power to judge someone as not worthy of God’s grace, while deliberately hiding their own sins? (Dan 11:36; Rom 14:4; Rev 13:5)
    The Pharisees were experts at this.  Do you know they sinned against the Holy Spirit when condemning Jesus to death? They claimed his work was demonic.  (Matt 12:31,32; John 8:48; Mark 3:28-30)  How many times has your composite leadership, the entire elder body, condemned an anointed one to a spiritual death when speaking against documented false teachings and prophesy, and for upholding only God’s Word through Christ?  If we only knew.  What we do know, is that this act of sinning against the Holy Spirit, fulfills prophesy.  (John 16:2; Luke 12:11,12; Matt 10:25; John 15:20; Rev 13:15; 11:3,7)
    From one hub in New York, a sticky web has been spun throughout the world, creating not a “home” of enlightenment, but one of dark captivity where people adhere to the glue of the silken web, too afraid to struggle against it. (John 3:19-21; 2 Cor 6:14) They are afraid to stand for truth and justice’s sake which can lead to losing family and close friends. (Mark 8:35;Heb 10:35-39) They are alert to the consequences that they will be considered by their loved ones, as spiritually dead before God. (Mark 13:12; Luke 12:51-53)
    Do you believe this?  Do you believe people are “dead” in God’s eyes when they are disfellowshipped for rejecting the organization?  What about those who keep their faith in Christ and the Father, perpetually alive in their heart? (2 Tim 3:10-13; Rev 2:10; 13:10)
    How do you think Jesus feels, knowing that many leave your organization, afflicted, and tossed about by uncaring elders; while despite all their suffering, hold on even more tightly to his teachings? Your organization states that these people will die in Armageddon, primarily for rejecting your shepherds and the web of lies they continue to spin. (Jer 23:1-4)
    Another aspect of this entrapment is the organization’s earthly “beauty” of attraction; like a stunningly spun web, diligently perfected and organized.   We’ve seen these type of spider webs in nature. We marvel at the spider’s ability to produce what appears a miraculous work. (Matt 24:24; 2 Thess 2:9; Rev 13:11,13)  
    Yet we are told in God’s Word, that putting our trust in earthly treasures, is a trap.  Can you see that your house of faith and promise in an earthly organization, is an earthly treasure?  (Micah 6:9-13; Matt 6:19-20; 1 Tim 6:9; Phil 3:19)  
    Both the physical accomplishments and the perceived humble men who speak as if sent by Christ, drowns out any internal lies spoken by them, as well as unveiled truth trumpeted from outside its walls. (Isa 58:1; Joel 2:1; Ezek 2:5,7; Rev 11:1-3) A new member here, is a perfect example of one who closes her eyes and ears to truth, to preserve the beauty she has fabricated in her mind.  To her, spiritual wisdom appears to come exclusively from the eight-legged hub of beauty, as it boasts of its visual accomplishments; while at the same time, effectively hiding from JWS not only its sins, but its inability to produce lasting sayings of life. (John 15:4,16; 6:27,35,58,68)  
    Still, this entrapment must be served and cared for, and respected. (Rev 13:4)   Its prey cooperates, by leading others into its efficiently balanced web.  (Prov 28:10; Ps 64:6; Jer 9:8)
    In Matt 24:24, Jesus spoke of false prophets misleading the “elect”, the “saints”/anointed in the last days.  His use of words convey that the deceit would be so intense, it would be very possible for those who received the Holy Spirit of truth poured into their heart at the time of anointing, to also be misled. (1 John 2:20)  Jesus called it a “trap” of glut and drunkenness and the pain that comes with it  – a spiritual downfall from “eating” rotten fruit, and drinking from a vine of wickedness…from a brood of vipers. (Luke 21:34-36) (Matt 23:33,34; Deut 32:32,33; 29:18; Heb 12:15; Rev 8:11; Jer 13:13; Rev 14:8)
     Your GB refute this claim, saying no, it is not possible for the remnant to be deceived; after all, they are residing faithfully in “Jehovah’s organization”, a “safe haven” and “spiritual paradise.”  (Jer 23:17; 1 Thess 5:3; Rev 16:13,14; 20:7-9)  
    So, most likely you are thinking, what does anyone on the outside know about “truth”, right?   Well, when many can see clearly Wt’s web for what it is, they perceive confusion of teachings, ugliness, suffering and entrapment; much like the tangled web of a black widow spider.  They are aware that no matter how the organization presents itself on the outside, it cannot be sourced in the God of Truth and Justice.  Deut 32:4  
    All of this is true, but I now feel it is not necessarily by happenstance that your teachings are continually changing.  The enforcement layers of “new light” although born out of necessity, is WT’s inspiration of purpose, to stabilize and secure its home and trap of allurement.  It is the organization’s demon inspired artwork, of carefully composed confusion. (Col 2:8; Rev 16:13-16)  Even in the visual tangled web woven by a black widow, there is method to what looks like a spider’s madness.   It is structured on three levels that serve to trap its prey; supporting threads, tangle threads, and at its lowest foundation zone, the spider weaves a vertical trap of silk, noted to be five times stronger than steel, on a “per-weight basis”.
    But will the organization – the trap of darkness, where the light from God’s Son cannot and will never shine, continue to stand through the trials it already faces?  Will “Jehovah’s house”, no matter what supporting threads of new light and false promises it continues to builds with, successfully face the scrutiny God will bring upon it, for rejecting His Temple and house, that He has built through His Son? (Ps 127:1; Hos 10:13; 2 Cor 4:18; 1 John 2:17; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 6:19,20; Eph 2:20-22; Matt 7:24-27)
     
    "JW's" talk a lot about "the mark of true Christianity, as being love" (John 13:34,35; Matt 5:43,44);
    but how little love they have for anyone who does not worship, obey, and slave for, their organizational god! Overly self-righteous, they avoid those whom they deem as spiritually defective (Ecc 7:16; Rom 12:3; 3:23; James 4:6; Luke 6:42; Matt 7:1,2; Prov 16:2).
    It is taught that by treating sinners with coldness, we are supposedly, helping them (Rom 3:8).
    If we see someone in need, even if we view them as a spiritual enemy, we are to show compassion (Rom 12:20; Matt 25:35-40; 7:12) (John 3:17; 8:15), because we don't really know their heart, as it appears before God (Heb 13:2; Matt 18:10)...
    …as He views them (1 Sam 16:7; Prov 17:5). Even God's faithful remnant, will be seen as wicked enemies (John 16:2; Rev 11:3,7-9; Matt 25:42-46). The self-righteous, are judged by Christ, as "goats" (2 Cor 11:15).
    The meaning of God's Word of truth, does not change. So what are the minds of "JW's" slaves to?
    Not to truth (Deut 11:18; Rev 22:4), but to men and their doctrines (Rev 13:16; Matt 15:9). That's called idolatry (Isa 40:25; Rev 13:4,17,8). 
    Bible prophecy has foretold that all this would take place as a test before the end (Matt 24:9-13,22,24,25; 7:14).
     Wicked Steward/Shunning/Idolatry/Witnessing/Provisions/Refuge
     
     Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save,
        nor his ear too dull to hear.
    2 But your iniquities have separated
        you from your God;
    your sins have hidden his face from you,
        so that he will not hear.
    3 For your hands are stained with blood,
        your fingers with guilt.
    Your lips have spoken falsely,
        and your tongue mutters wicked things.
    4 No one calls for justice;
        no one pleads a case with integrity.
    They rely on empty arguments, they utter lies;
        they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.
    5 They hatch the eggs of vipers
        and spin a spider’s web.
    Whoever eats their eggs will die,
        and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.
    6 Their cobwebs are useless for clothing;
        they cannot cover themselves with what they make.
    Their deeds are evil deeds,
        and acts of violence are in their hands.
    7 Their feet rush into sin;
        they are swift to shed innocent blood.
    They pursue evil schemes;
        acts of violence mark their ways.
    8 The way of peace they do not know;
        there is no justice in their paths.
    They have turned them into crooked roads;
        no one who walks along them will know peace.
    9 So justice is far from us,
        and righteousness does not reach us.
    We look for light, but all is darkness;
        for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows.
    10 Like the blind we grope along the wall,
        feeling our way like people without eyes.
    At midday we stumble as if it were twilight;
        among the strong, we are like the dead.
    11 We all growl like bears;
        we moan mournfully like doves.
    We look for justice, but find none;
        for deliverance, but it is far away.
    12 For our offenses are many in your sight,
        and our sins testify against us.
    Our offenses are ever with us,
        and we acknowledge our iniquities:
    13 rebellion and treachery against the Lord,
        turning our backs on our God,
    inciting revolt and oppression,
        uttering lies our hearts have conceived.
    14 So justice is driven back,
        and righteousness stands at a distance;
    truth has stumbled in the streets,
        honesty cannot enter.
    15 Truth is nowhere to be found,
        and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.
    The Lord looked and was displeased
        that there was no justice.
    16 He saw that there was no one,
        he was appalled that there was no one to intervene;
    so his own arm achieved salvation for him,
        and his own righteousness sustained him.
    17 He put on righteousness as his breastplate,
        and the helmet of salvation on his head;
    he put on the garments of vengeance
        and wrapped himself in zeal as in a cloak.
    18 According to what they have done,
        so will he repay
    wrath to his enemies
        and retribution to his foes;
        he will repay the islands their due.
    19 From the west, people will fear the name of the Lord,
        and from the rising of the sun, they will revere his glory.
    For he will come like a pent-up flood
        that the breath of the Lord drives along.
    20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
        to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
    declares the Lord.
    21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord. “My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will always be on your lips, on the lips of your children and on the lips of their descendants—from this time on and forever,” says the Lord.  Isa 59
     
     
     

  6. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Matthew9969 in By whose order are JW's being persecuted around the world?   
    You usually make sensible statements, but this one is an outright uninformed lie. I thought you were above that rude behavior.
     
  7. Haha
  8. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    Good question.
    Bible verses are interesting about this. Few fragments from Luke 1:
    1) But the angel said to him: ...; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son,...
    2) ... he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.  
    3) And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, ...
    4) When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
    5) He asked for a writing tablet, and to everyone’s astonishment he wrote, “His name is John.”  Immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue set free, and he began to speak, praising God. 
    6) Everyone who heard this wondered about it, asking, “What then is this child going to be?” For the Lord’s hand was with him.
    Other examples in Bible speaking about oil, water, dove, flaming tongues, power to do miracles .... as proves of HS in someone. Do you know that Shepherd Book speaking about Spirit who FLOW in Congregation. If the imperfections of those serving on the body are allowed to cause strained relations, the flow of Jehovah’s spirit can be restricted and the congregation may be adversely affected. - page 16. ....... Neglecting to care for such matters can hinder the flow of Jehovah’s holy spirit to the congregation. - page 79.
    Flow? To move in a continuous and smooth way. To move in or as if in a stream. HS is compared with  Water. 
    "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” But this He spoke of the Spirit,...." 
    Well, are WTJWorg and GB and JW's  want to be just, only GUIDED by spirit, but were never INSPIRED because The RIVER does not FLOW IN YOU?  I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring
    filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born ... 
    the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
    Do you really need prove for other people anointing? :))
     
  9. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Is Religion a Choice?   
    Absolutely inappropriate! It seems GB+Helpers+Elders+Organization is Anti-Type of JHVH as Type.  And Great Multitude is Anti-type of Moses as Type. :)) Really crazy illustration. 
    Moses was human, so we can play illustrations with him as we wish, it is not so sensitive. But to compare GB and Elders position and role as same as God's? ... that is in area of blasphemy. 
     
  10. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in Is Religion a Choice?   
    Here's an update on obeying "Jehovah's organization" -
    Moses conscientiously followed Jehovah’s detailed instructions for the construction and setting up of the tabernacle. We should likewise listen to any instructions we receive from Jehovah’s organization and obey promptly and wholeheartedly. This is true even if it does not seem important to follow them or we do not understand the reason for the instructions.—Lu 16:10. mwb20 November p. 2
    "But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."  Heb 5:14
     
    This is a weird comparison of Moses, a prophet in direct contact with God and who obeyed His instructions...made to JW members obeying the instructions of an organization.   But, I'm getting the comparison.  Incredibly, it was stated just recently in a broadcast, that the elder body "represents God".  The elder body basically comprises the internal workings of the organization - supporting the image of the organization, as spirit-directed. (Rev 13:15)  What they teach, judge, and justify is God speaking, since they "represent God" and the organization.  
    Not only do they represent God, they "represent the royal priesthood" - the anointed Temple of God. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17
    My goodness, the "man of lawlessness" who sits/rules in the Temple of God, is becoming stark naked before all.
    "Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God (1 Pet 2:9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God ."
     
     
     
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in Is Religion a Choice?   
    Excellent explanation, and shocking at the same time. 
    At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith. w13 11/15 p. 20
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Shiwiii in Is Religion a Choice?   
    It is good to teach children 'values' and even teaching children about God and Christ, but that is different to brainwashing them with lies and false expectations. 
    To push young children into baptism just because some other child has also been pushed into baptism, as if it's a competition. Then to disfellowship them when they go aganst the GB doctrines. 
    This is very true 
    “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize”
     
  13. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Matthew9969 in Isabella Guzman Asks For Release From Colorado Mental Hospital   
    But we didnt kill our parents, this young girl has something else wrong with her.
  14. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Isabella Guzman Asks For Release From Colorado Mental Hospital   
    This is called hearsay and gossip. It is not a noble quality to simply post dirt having no idea whether it is true or not.
    Did I tell you that the Pope got caught sneaking a nuclear bomb into the Mormon temple? If true, this is very bad.
  15. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    CC asks  What is the Church?
    The 'church' as you want to call it, is the True Anointed ones, the Body of Christ. 
    It is NOT a building built with hands. It is not of human making. 
    But your GB is trying hard to crush the True Anointed because your GB are jealous of them.  Your GB have blood on their hands and will pay for their sins. F&DS indeed, I don't think so. 
  16. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    I have never said that there is no need for gatherings to study God's Word.  If this was true, I wouldn't point out the many times I have here, of the preventative measures of your elder body against the anointed gathering as one body, under their Head, Jesus Christ.  They are told that gathering  to study the Word of God, threatens the organization's unity.   It surely doesn't effect God or Christ, since it is spoken in His Word, that this unity of the anointed, brings about the completion of the Temple.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:19-20)
    It's like you said:
    Rom 12:1,2 - "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God."
    Firstly, this is about the anointed gathering under Christ.  And, I wish the anointed and all JWs, would see the directional impact that this scripture should have on their heart and mind.  There is much conformity to the approval of men in the WT.  You are blind to it.  
    What I have stated, is that there is no need for an organization, your "mountain", set in place by the earthly standards of men, to lead us to salvation.   
    Zech 4:6,7
     
  17. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    Style, way of living that John the Baptizer practiced as a his (God's) way to serve God, which was visible to the people, was unusual and strange. Did he needed approval? And from whom? ....the ways of the Lord are strange. :))
    I recall Jesus teaching:  Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. Lk 12 51 In this context, what we can expect from Jesus' followers, to bring peace or division ... ?
     
  18. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in Is Religion a Choice?   
    God spoke of his nation under covenant as "children".   When they sinned, it was obvious that they lost their "value system" in God's laws.  We choose our father, we choose our course to follow - either we desire to become children of the Almighty Father, or children of the devil.  John 8:44  
    I'm sure the devoted "children" of Jonestown believed their leaders valued their life, and they valued their own.   Were these people, "Christians"?  Did they adopt Christian values?
    What were the beliefs of Peoples Temple members?
    https://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=35356
    Although a variety of beliefs existed in Peoples Temple, two main systems of thought can be identified. The first system, which tended to be concentrated in Jim Jones and a small leadership corps, comprised a belief in the salvific power of socialism. Somewhat atheistic, or at best agnostic, in nature, this belief resembled humanism in its understanding of the power of human beings to re-create and re-shape reality for the benefit of all. In this view, religion could be used to attract people into the organization so that the real message of Christianity — radical sharing and mutual support — could actually be lived. The second belief system in the Temple, and by far the largest, was a traditional Christianity which emphasized the prophetic call to social justice and a belief that the kingdom of God could be established on earth by living in an apostolic community. This system resembled the Social Gospel movement of the late 19th and early 20th centuries in its commitment to solving social problems; at the same time, however, the group had utopianist ideals which could only be lived out through the establishment of a community separate from the evil and injustice of the rest of the world, especially America.
    Read the following quote posted on another forum.  Do you see anything that sounds familiar with your beliefs; anything in this quote that strikes a familiar chord?  I do, and as they say; familiarity breeds contempt.  
    Deborah Layton, escapee, months before the Jim Jones, Jonestown Massacre -
    "When your own thoughts are forbidden, when your questions are not allowed and our doubts are punished, when contacts with friendships outside of the organization are censored, we are being abused for the ends never justify the means. When our heart aches knowing we have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever forbidden if we leave, we are in danger. When we consider staying in a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment and sorrow our leaving will cause for ourselves and those we may have come to love, we are in a cult... If there is any lesson to be learned it is that an ideal can never be brought about by fear, abuse, and the threat of retribution. When family and friends are used as a weapon in order to force us to stay in an organization, something has gone terribly wrong." (page 299 - excerpt from book, Seductive Poison).
     
     
    Quote @Srecko Sostar - From given JW preaching, it could be concluded that WTJWorg considers its religious teachings as the foundation for its own religious morality. In fact, JWs claim that they are highly moral because they have “the truth”, that means "true religion" and "true teachings", "true religiosity". And because of that they are the most moral people on Earth. If they are such people, how it is possible that they collectively allow their fellow brothers aka WT lawyers to speak lies, to give false "testimony/witness"?? 
     
     
  19. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in Is Religion a Choice?   
    I thoght this was / is an intersting article. 
    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularworldbyaai/2020/11/is-religion-a-choice/
    Is Religion a Choice? 
    Not initially, no. You are not offered a choice.
    Many of us are fed our parent’s choice of faith in the same way that we are given their preferred make of baby milk… Maybe you would choose if you were shown the options but you don’t have that privilege: nobody gives you a menu of religions to select from. 
    Not offering a choice is part of the Get-em-Young strategy. 
    It begins, when you are newly born and can’t voice an objection, with a tribal branding ceremony, which may include being plunged in water or enduring genital mutilation, and it moves on to daily praying, special dietary customs, hair cuts and dress codes. It extends to schooling and gathering to worship once a week in a special hall, and includes ceremonies to mark life events such as weddings and funerals. This is not to mention a calendar of special activities at different times of year. Punishment for disobedience is often involved.
    Later though, if you are lucky enough to have freedom, you can start to question what you were told and can form your own opinion; you can unchoose. 
    Many notable people have done this. Tony Blair swapped his Protestantism for Catholicism as soon as he left office (being overtly religious is not a vote winner in the UK) and boxer Cassius Clay famously left the Baptist church for Islam, which necessitated changing his name: to Mohammed Ali.
    This unchoosing is what Muslims try to prevent with the threat of death for apostasy. People born in an Islamic theocracy are often trapped by the fundamentalist leaders’ fear of challenge. 
    Other denominations, such as the Jehovah Witnesses, use psychological sanctions: a would-be leaver has to face up to the prospect of being ostracised by his or her family and community members; the price is a complete loss of society and a need for geographical relocation to start life again without parental support. 
    What does that tell us about religion?
     “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize” 
    That’s a good saying, whether it was coined by Voltaire, the French Enlightenment philosopher or not (there is some academic disagreement).
    Unchoosing all religions, ticking the none box in answer to the question, “What is your religion?” on polls and censuses, is becoming increasingly popular where it is permitted.
    I hope you are in a situation where you can unchoose your religion without coming to harm.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Not my words but, Definitely food for thought......................
  20. Sad
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Matthew9969 in Isabella Guzman Asks For Release From Colorado Mental Hospital   
    My siblings and I were yelled at and beaten on almost a daily basis by jw parents.
  21. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in Is Religion a Choice?   
    It is good to teach children 'values' and even teaching children about God and Christ, but that is different to brainwashing them with lies and false expectations. 
    To push young children into baptism just because some other child has also been pushed into baptism, as if it's a competition. Then to disfellowship them when they go aganst the GB doctrines. 
    This is very true 
    “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize”
     
  22. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Utah high court weighs case of woman who says church made her listen to audio of her rape   
    As to my knowledge, only in, from 2019 did WT make a change regarding testifying in a sexual offense.
    ... It is best that the witnesses give their testimony in the presence of the accused, although a victim of rape or of child sexual abuse is never required to do so..... - Shepherd book ch 16, par 2, 2019 edition
  23. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Shiwiii in Utah high court weighs case of woman who says church made her listen to audio of her rape   
    does this make it right? 
     
    oh my , holier than thou spoken here. 
     
    Seriously, you are defending the org, because it has been this way for x amount of years? so it should continue? it should be tolerated? Do you not have compassion? sorrow for those who have to go thru this? but its ok that the org does it because it's been this way? What happened to standing up for what is right and just? Would Jesus say "well its been this way for so long and back in 1992 they did it this way.........." I hardly doubt it. If you want the org to succeed, then you are a part of making it succeed, not a by standard who will protect at all costs. 
     
    sorry if I am harsh, but this is BS. 
  24. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Matthew9969 in Utah high court weighs case of woman who says church made her listen to audio of her rape   
    I wonder which one of the elders kept this recording, and listened to it a lot.
  25. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Shiwiii in Utah high court weighs case of woman who says church made her listen to audio of her rape   
    @John Houston Keep on deliberately blinding yourself. I laugh at people that use examples about the Nation of Israel. You seem to forget that those people were born into that Nation. However with JWs it is voluntary, so yes they should be 'perfect' in God's eyes through Christ. 
    The difference is between sin due to being imperfect, or, sin due to deliberate actions. And you are misleading yourself if you think God or Christ is happy with the CCJW. 
    Matthew 5 v 48 (to the Anointed ones ) You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
    Or from the NWT.  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
    So, disagree with Almighty God if you wish, but it is not advisable.. 
    And if you have first hand knowledge of the crimes committed in your Org, by the Elders and others, then you should have reported those things to the Police or other 'Superior Authorities'. So it seems that you are part of the problem. 
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