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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    The true core teachings in Jesus Christ and the apostles, have been taught and believed in, for the last 2,000 years.  It didn’t take an established religion to preserve those teachings, but only an individual’s heart inclined to follow them.(John 4:23,24; Matt 13:3-9) The faithful anointed and believers in Christ did not disappear after the apostles died.  Is that what you believe?  God’s “organization” has always been present in the faithful “living stones” of His Temple – His authentic Zion. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17)
    Satan has upended this truth, by presenting established “Christian” religions with a centralized authority, since the first century.  Your religion is only different from other established “Christian” religions, because it has captivated God’s remnant “Israel” in the last days, the very people who are to worship only in spirit and in truth.  They gravitated to morsels of truth, and tolerated the made up stories that accompanied them. (Luke 22:31; Col 2:8; Rev 2:8-10; 13:10)
    If someone offered you a pail of rotten food that smothered  chunks of fresh bread scattered throughout, would you eat it?  This is what you offer your ‘hearers’, and what you tolerate.  The Pharisees taught the laws of Moses, but Christ condemned them.  John told them “The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”  Mark 3:10    If the teachers of the law faced this condemnation, why do you believe that a few teachings of truth will save your teachers/”trees” and organization from God’s condemnation?  It shows that you put a higher value on man’s words, than the words of God and Christ.  Perhaps you put a higher value on your words, than those of Christ.
    “Be careful,” Jesus warned them. “Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and that of Herod.” Mark 8:15
    You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
    8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
        but their hearts are far from me.
    9 They worship me in vain;
        their teachings are merely human rules.’”  Matt 15:7-9
    33 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. 35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”  Matt 12:33-36
    “Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.”  1 Tim 4:16
     
    I doubt you even read the quote from Zechariah.  And, I believe you should research the meaning of the word, "truth".   
    "Sin is not ended by multiplying words,
        but the prudent hold their tongues."  Prov 10:19
    “Whoever would love life
        and see good days
    must keep their tongue from evil
      and their lips from deceitful speech."  1 Pet 3:10
     
    http://pearl-distinction.blogspot.com/
     
  2. Upvote
  3. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    @TrueTomHarley talks more rubbish again. To quote him 
    All are dings, dents, scratches, and pothole damage acquired by driving the cramped and narrow road over the decades. All could have been avoided by leaving the car parked and doing nothing. None are the core teachings of JWs, the combination of such teachings that are found nowhere else.
    Lets us examine this statement of his. 
    Um, not exactly is it ?  What it is, is false teachings. Including 1914, in my opinion. The idea of Armageddon threatened many times. The 1960's false teachings about Armageddon and 1975 'Stay alive 'till 75'.  The teaching about 'One must be a baptised JW to be saved'. The wrongful use of words for baptism. The misuse of 'power' to disfellowship for no honest reason. And most importantly the GB exalting themselves to the position of the Faithful and Discreet Salve and in so doing 'beating up their fellow slaves'. 
    No as for core teachings, I would say that The teaching about 'One must be a baptised JW to be saved'. is a core teaching of JWs... And I would say that the GB exalting themselves to the position of the Faithful and Discreet Salve is a core  teaching of JWs.. 
    Next quote
    The Name, the ransom, no trinity, no hell, earthly paradise, God’s kingdom as government, the preaching work, earthly resurrection, the reason God allows suffering explained—all core teachings that have been firmly in place for over a century.
    The Name. That name was in use a long time before JWs existed, and that was why they chose it, because it was already known. I think they actually admitted that Yahweh was the true name but they chose Jehovah as it was well known and could be easily related to.
    the ransom, no trinity, no hell, and I think these things were believed by others before JWs.
    Now as for this bit  all core teachings that have been firmly in place for over a century.  So one might ask, what has the leadership of the CCJW been up to since 100 years ago.  And the true answer is, they have been busy making money and misusing people, and spouting lies and false predictions. Oh and Child Sexual Abuse of course.
    BUT the Leaders / GB of the CCJW  have not served Almighty God. How do we know this ? Because they have not been inspired of God's Holy Spirit and therefore they have not been able to pass on true information from God through Christ.
    The misuse of the Romans scripture 'Superior Authorities' was one of the biggest sins because it was used to give power to the leaders of the JW organisation at that time, showing lack of spiritual guidance and greed on behalf of those 'leaders'. 
    Back to our dear old Tom and i quote, an overriding desire to malign your spiritual betters. 
    'spiritual betters' Tom ? Aimed at Witness I know but who exactly are those 'spiritual betters' ?  Are you in fact placing your GB above all others ?  Um, isn't that worshipping them ?  
    Or is it referring to the True Anointed as a whole, you know, the ones I often mention ? 
    I'll leave everyone with a question. I'll quote Tom again here All could have been avoided by leaving the car parked and doing nothing.  
    So, which do you think God and Christ would prefer. Do you think they prefer the leaders of the CCJW to make things up as they want to and in so doing give false information, OR, do you think God and Christ would prefer that the leaders of the CCJW be humble and wait on God through Christ to give true information to feed the flock. 
    Please remember that at least half of the preaching work that has been done earthwide by JWs has been false information or even lies. They could have simply given praise to God through Christ but instead they pushed forward their own agenda. 
  4. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    @TrueTomHarley talks more rubbish again. To quote him 
    All are dings, dents, scratches, and pothole damage acquired by driving the cramped and narrow road over the decades. All could have been avoided by leaving the car parked and doing nothing. None are the core teachings of JWs, the combination of such teachings that are found nowhere else.
    Lets us examine this statement of his. 
    Um, not exactly is it ?  What it is, is false teachings. Including 1914, in my opinion. The idea of Armageddon threatened many times. The 1960's false teachings about Armageddon and 1975 'Stay alive 'till 75'.  The teaching about 'One must be a baptised JW to be saved'. The wrongful use of words for baptism. The misuse of 'power' to disfellowship for no honest reason. And most importantly the GB exalting themselves to the position of the Faithful and Discreet Salve and in so doing 'beating up their fellow slaves'. 
    No as for core teachings, I would say that The teaching about 'One must be a baptised JW to be saved'. is a core teaching of JWs... And I would say that the GB exalting themselves to the position of the Faithful and Discreet Salve is a core  teaching of JWs.. 
    Next quote
    The Name, the ransom, no trinity, no hell, earthly paradise, God’s kingdom as government, the preaching work, earthly resurrection, the reason God allows suffering explained—all core teachings that have been firmly in place for over a century.
    The Name. That name was in use a long time before JWs existed, and that was why they chose it, because it was already known. I think they actually admitted that Yahweh was the true name but they chose Jehovah as it was well known and could be easily related to.
    the ransom, no trinity, no hell, and I think these things were believed by others before JWs.
    Now as for this bit  all core teachings that have been firmly in place for over a century.  So one might ask, what has the leadership of the CCJW been up to since 100 years ago.  And the true answer is, they have been busy making money and misusing people, and spouting lies and false predictions. Oh and Child Sexual Abuse of course.
    BUT the Leaders / GB of the CCJW  have not served Almighty God. How do we know this ? Because they have not been inspired of God's Holy Spirit and therefore they have not been able to pass on true information from God through Christ.
    The misuse of the Romans scripture 'Superior Authorities' was one of the biggest sins because it was used to give power to the leaders of the JW organisation at that time, showing lack of spiritual guidance and greed on behalf of those 'leaders'. 
    Back to our dear old Tom and i quote, an overriding desire to malign your spiritual betters. 
    'spiritual betters' Tom ? Aimed at Witness I know but who exactly are those 'spiritual betters' ?  Are you in fact placing your GB above all others ?  Um, isn't that worshipping them ?  
    Or is it referring to the True Anointed as a whole, you know, the ones I often mention ? 
    I'll leave everyone with a question. I'll quote Tom again here All could have been avoided by leaving the car parked and doing nothing.  
    So, which do you think God and Christ would prefer. Do you think they prefer the leaders of the CCJW to make things up as they want to and in so doing give false information, OR, do you think God and Christ would prefer that the leaders of the CCJW be humble and wait on God through Christ to give true information to feed the flock. 
    Please remember that at least half of the preaching work that has been done earthwide by JWs has been false information or even lies. They could have simply given praise to God through Christ but instead they pushed forward their own agenda. 
  5. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    All are dings, dents, scratches, and pothole damage acquired by driving the cramped and narrow road over the decades. All could have been avoided by leaving the car parked and doing nothing. None are the core teachings of JWs, the combination of such teachings that are found nowhere else.
    The Name, the ransom, no trinity, no hell, earthly paradise, God’s kingdom as government, the preaching work, earthly resurrection, the reason God allows suffering explained—all core teachings that have been firmly in place for over a century.
    Do you hold all of these core teachings? Do you hold any of them? Nobody knows what you believe. That absurdly long thread you started about money reveals nothing more than what you always reveal—an overriding desire to malign your spiritual betters. 
    And just so as to establish that my piety equals yours, I will now cite an entire chapter of Zecharaih:
    The word of Jehovah of armies again came, saying:  2 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘I will be zealous for Zion with a great zeal, and with great wrath I will be zealous for her.’” 3 “This is what Jehovah says, ‘I will return to Zion and reside in Jerusalem; and Jerusalem will be called the city of truth, and the mountain of Jehovah of armies, the holy mountain.’” 4 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘Old men and women will again sit in the public squares of Jerusalem, each with his staff in his hand because of his great age.  5 And the public squares of the city will be filled with boys and girls playing there.’” 6 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘Although it may seem too difficult to the remaining ones of this people in those days, should it seem too difficult also to me?’ declares Jehovah of armies.” 7 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘Here I am saving my people from the lands of the east and the west.  8 And I will bring them in, and they will reside in Jerusalem; and they will become my people, and I will become their God in truth and in righteousness.’” 9 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘Let your hands be strong, you who now hear these words from the mouth of the prophets, the same words that were spoken on the day the foundation of the house of Jehovah of armies was laid for the temple to be built.  10 For before that time, there were no wages being paid either for man or for beast; and it was not safe to come and go because of the adversary, for I turned all men one against another.’ 11 “‘But now I will not deal with the remaining ones of this people as in the former days,’ declares Jehovah of armies.  12 ‘For the seed of peace will be sown; the vine will produce its fruit and the earth its yield, and the heavens will give their dew; and I will cause the remaining ones of this people to inherit all these things.  13 And just as you became an object of cursing among the nations, O house of Judah and house of Israel, so I will save you, and you will become a blessing. Do not be afraid! Let your hands be strong.’ 14 “For this is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘“Just as I had determined to bring calamity on you because your forefathers made me indignant,” says Jehovah of armies, “and I felt no regret,  15 so at this time I have determined to do good to Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. Do not be afraid!”’ 16 “‘These are the things you should do: Speak the truth with one another, and the judgments in your gates must promote truth and peace.  17 Do not scheme calamity against one another in your hearts, and do not love any false oath; for these are all things that I hate,’ declares Jehovah.” 18 The word of Jehovah of armies again came to me, saying:  19 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘The fast of the fourth month, the fast of the fifth month, the fast of the seventh month, and the fast of the tenth month will be occasions for exultation and joy for the house of Judah—festivals of rejoicing. So love truth and peace.’ 20 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘It will yet come to pass that peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will come;  21 and the inhabitants of one city will go to those of another and say: “Let us earnestly go to beg for the favor of Jehovah and to seek Jehovah of armies. I am also going.”  22 And many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek Jehovah of armies in Jerusalem and to beg for the favor of Jehovah.’ 23 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”’”
  6. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    So, how is the announcement read when one is disfellowshipped?  Has it gone from...
    "John Smith is no longer a member of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"...
    to...
    "John Smith is no longer an individual of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"...
    or, is it...
    "John Smith is no longer a publisher for the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"?
    One thing is for certain, they cannot say the Body of Christ comprises every JW now, since Rom 12:4,5 says, 
    "For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others."
    But, that's okay, because this scripture is about the anointed Body of Christ, which doesn't need to change meaning to accommodate men's unscrupulous principles in the court systems.  
     
  7. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in One Jehovah’s Witness acquitted in Russia as others get months of restrictions   
    First Amendment Annotated
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. - https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/
    Can the question be asked: Is criticism of religion and pointing out the questionability of its dogmas the right of every believer in the US? or elsewhere? Or is it "hate speech"? When victims of abuse protest in front of a religious institution and seek answers and change is it reprehensible?
    Why does the representative of the WT, who represents the only true religion that represents The Truth, not want to answer the question but refer to the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution?
    JW "religious freedom" speaking about how all people who do not accept JW "Truth" are part of "God's enemies" and belong to "satan' world", and deserved to be destroyed. And how all JW's who left "organization" are mentally diseased", "despicable apostates", "bad society" and similar expressions, must be  "shunned" and will be destroyed because they are even worse than "worldly people". Is this sort of "free speech" also inside "full religious freedom"?
    WT and JW members read text of Bible and they took the right to produce "judgement" on people in the name of God. Just like many believers before them, in various religions. 
    Please be realistic. What would the future of people in the "New World", who would not accept JW learning, look like?
  8. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Isabella in One Jehovah’s Witness acquitted in Russia as others get months of restrictions   
    (RNS) — A day after a Jehovah’s Witness became the first to be acquitted in Russia since a 2017 ruling declared his faith group “extremist,” six Russian members received suspended sentences for gathering for worship.
    The developments come a week after dozens of scholars from across the globe called on Russian President Vladimir Putin to end persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
    The pacifist faith organization said six men and women were given suspended sentences ranging from 2 ½ to four years; in addition, they were given orders of “restricted freedom” from seven to 10 months in a court in the western city of Ulyanovsk. Freedom restrictions can include limitations on where they can travel and with whom they can associate.
    “We are pleased that they were not imprisoned, yet it remains a gross injustice for them to be convicted simply for their peaceful Christian worship,” said Jarrod Lopes, spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, in a Thursday (Oct. 😎 statement.
    https://religionnews.com/2020/10/08/one-jehovahs-witness-acquitted-russia-others-get-months-restrictions/
  9. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    @TrueTomHarley I can't believe how delusional you are.  False prophets are AMONG YOU.  Have you forgotten already, the long line of falsehoods your leaders have pushed onto the people?  And all failed?  
    Perhaps you could read from your organization's "Insight" Book about how to distinguish false and true prophets:
    Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p. 696-697
    Distinguishing the True From the False. In some cases, such as that of Moses, Elijah, Elisha, and Jesus, God’s prophets performed miraculous works that attested to the genuineness of their message and office. Not all, however, are recorded as performing such powerful works. The three essentials for establishing the credentials of a true prophet, as given through Moses, were: The true prophet would speak in Jehovah’s name; the things foretold would come to pass (De 18:20-22); and his prophesying must promote true worship, being in harmony with God’s revealed word and commandments (De 13:1-4). The last requirement was probably the most vital and decisive, for an individual might hypocritically use God’s name, and by coincidence, his prediction might see fulfillment. But the true prophet was not solely or even primarily a prognosticator, as has been shown. Rather, he was an advocate of righteousness, and his message dealt primarily with moral standards and their application. He expressed God’s mind on matters. (Isa 1:10-20; Mic 6:1-12) Hence, it was not necessary to wait perhaps for years or generations to determine whether the prophet was true or false by fulfillment of a prediction. If his message contradicted God’s revealed will and standards, he was false. Thus, a prophet who foretold peace for Israel or Judah, at a time when the people were engaging in disobedience to God’s Word and Law, of necessity was false.—Jer 6:13, 14; 14:11-16.
    Jesus’ later warning concerning false prophets paralleled that of Moses. Though using his name, and giving “signs and wonders to lead astray,” their fruits would prove them “workers of lawlessness.”—Mt 7:15-23; Mr 13:21-23; compare 2Pe 2:1-3; 1Jo 4:1-3.
    The true prophet never foretold simply to satisfy human curiosity. Every prediction related to God’s will, purpose, standards, or judgment. (1Ki 11:29-39; Isa 7:3-9) Often the future events foretold were the consequence of existing conditions; as the people sowed, so they would reap. The false prophets lulled the people and their leaders with soothing assurances that, despite their unrighteous course, God was still with them to protect and prosper them. (Jer 23:16-20; 28:1-14; Eze 13:1-16; compare Lu 6:26.) They imitated the true prophets, employing symbolic language and actions. (1Ki 22:11; Jer 28:10-14) While some were outright frauds, many were evidently prophets who became delinquent or apostate. (Compare 1Ki 18:19; 22:5-7; Isa 28:7; Jer 23:11-15.) Some were women, false prophetesses. (Eze 13:17-23; compare Re 2:20.) A “spirit of uncleanness” replaced God’s spirit. All such false prophets were to be put to death.—Zec 13:2, 3; De 13:5.
    Tally up the past frauds who directed your organization.  Picture the latest chart on "this generation".   
     
  10. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    You know what's ironic, is the updated version of the Shepherd the Flock Manual from April, 2020.  It has replaced the word for "member", with "individual" or "publisher".  I'm sure this is an attempt to weasel out of future lawsuits.  
    "Individual" - 1a: of, relating to, or distinctively associated with an individual  b: intended for one person c: being an individual or existing as an indivisible whole       2: having marked individuality, an individual style.         3: existing as a distinct entity : SEPARATE   We all are individuals, and we should be independent of another's spiritual demands made upon us. (Isa 2:22)  Individuals hold their own opinion and are not afraid to speak it.  How confusing it must be for JWs to realize they are no longer "members" of "Jehovah's organization", but are in the company of many individuals who happen to "associate" with an organization.    Can there be a "brotherhood", a unity of belief if all express their individuality separate from another?    As individuals, will they gain a voice after all?  Will they actually have the freedom to express their distinct spiritual entity? Will they finally use their ability to be independent spiritual thinkers, without any repercussions?     Under the present wide-sweeping leadership of the GB and elder body, it's not possible no matter what JWs call themselves.  The change, is simply for business purposes.         
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in One Jehovah’s Witness acquitted in Russia as others get months of restrictions   
    I think I know what you are insinuating. You might be thinking that the term is too loosely based. What if for example one religion's faith tells them to kill the infidel? In that case, obviously, that kind of religious freedom is dangerous. However, we know what kind of religious freedom Ms. Baran is talking about. She would be referring to religious freedom that does not violate human rights, or takes another persons life. This kind of religious freedom has existed in America since the First Amendment, and seems to be working just fine. Also, she is saying that although Russia supposedly has religious freedom, that can't be true if a peaceful religion such as JWs are banned.
  12. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Isabella in HK faithful fear impact of new law on religion   
    Cardinal Joseph Zen (陳日君) fled the communist takeover of China as a teenager and found sanctuary in Hong Kong, a bastion of religious freedom that he now fears could disappear under Beijing’s tightening grip.
    The 88-year-old former bishop of Hong Kong has spent his retirement looking on with increasing alarm at the Vatican’s embrace of Beijing — and the imposition of a sweeping security law has only heightened his fears.
    “As I can see in the whole world, where you take away the freedoms of the people, religious freedoms also disappear,” Zen said from Salesian Mission he joined as a novice seven decades ago.
    Hong Kong has been a haven for faiths both before and after its 1997 handover to China. On the authoritarian — and officially atheist — mainland, religion is strictly controlled by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).
    Under Chinese President Xi Jinping (習近平) crackdowns have intensified — from the demolition of underground churches to the widespread incarceration of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang and a new campaign to “sinicize” religions.
    In contrast, Hong Kong boasts a dizzying array of faiths, including proselytizing groups barred from the mainland, such as the Latter Day Saints, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Falun Gong.
    However, Zen wonders how long that can last.
    After huge and often violent democracy protests convulsed Hong Kong last year, China’s leaders launched a clampdown and on June 30, imposed a broadly worded National Security Law that outlawed certain views and ushered in a new political chill.
    https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2020/10/09/2003744881
  13. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    Did you really send this silly letter to him?
    Perhaps not, but in that case it testifies to an entire movement of ones with the unique qualifications of copy and paste ability, ax-grinding, and a peculiar manner of citing vast swaths of verse while making no specific application of them—sort of like a surgeon tossing all his instruments at the patient and thereby imagining his job is done.
    Anyone reading this ridiculous letter would imagine Morris launching into a wide-eyed, wild-eyed, maniacal Howard Bealesque rant, veritably frothing at the mouth as works himself up. Why didn’t you link to it? Had you done so, one would see him murmur through words that he obviously has not chosen in advance, the way he always does, and looking quizzically at the match he has just blown out, as though surprised himself at how easily it is extinguished by a puff. 
    I’m willing to let the talk stand exactly as it is:
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/LatestVideos/pub-jwb_202009_11_VIDEO
    He starts with a line of how he likes to keep up with the news, nevertheless after watching just a few minutes recently, he said: “That’s enough.” Sure—take the opposite side of that one, if you like. Tell him that even in 2020, the year that the term “doomscrolling” was coined, that all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.
    Does he refer to apostates as “despicable”? Well, you must remember the words of Anton Chivchalov, keeping up with actions of the Russian Supreme Court:
    “The active participation of apostates in the trial against Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Russian Supreme Court is a vivid example of their unprincipled and indiscriminate cooperation with anyone, if only against us. And I’m not talking here about how incompetent and preposterous this participation was (none could testify anything about extremism). Only emotions, zero facts...
    “But this activity is also utterly immoral, since they want to send innocent people to jail. They are not sincerely misled, like many others. No, apostates are well aware that Jehovah’s Witnesses neither killed nor rob anyone, yet they are happy to prosecute us on criminal charges”
    The treachery of these apostates has gone beyond what Anton envisioned. Witnesses have not only been jailed, but have been tortured. When you release the hounds of hell, you find you cannot control just how or who they will maul. And these are your soul-mates. These are ones doing whatever they must to realize your dream come true:
    The verses that come to mind are those of the transgressing slave who has been forgiven so much by the Master. Rather than imitate that pattern in dealing with his fellow slaves, he forgives not a whit, and treats them as harshly as his Master did he mercifully. So it is with “apostates.” Unwilling to conform to teachings of the Master, and pushing their disobedience to the point of getting bruised, they are now on a vengeful search and destroy mission.
    And since you yourself set the pattern of citing acres of verse without application, simply taking for granted that they prove your point, oblivious that they do not (where did you learn that “teaching” technique?), I will do the same. Here are some Bible passages regarding apostates. See if you can find the love that you seem to assume should be there:
    However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.  2 Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.  3 Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping. 4 Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarʹta·rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.  5 And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people.  6 And by reducing the cities of Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah to ashes, he condemned them, setting a pattern for ungodly people of things to come.  7 And he rescued righteous Lot, who was greatly distressed by the brazen conduct of the lawless people—  8 for day after day that righteous man was tormenting his righteous soul over the lawless deeds that he saw and heard while dwelling among them.  9 So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment,  10 especially those who seek to defile the flesh of others and who despise authority.Daring and self-willed, they are not afraid to speak abusively of glorious ones,  11 whereas angels, although they are greater in strength and power, do not bring against them an accusation in abusive terms, out of respect for Jehovah.  12 But these men, like unreasoning animals that act on instinct and are born to be caught and destroyed, speak abusively about things of which they are ignorant. They will suffer destruction brought on by their own destructive course,  13 suffering harm as their reward for their own harmful course.They consider it pleasurable to indulge in luxurious living, even in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes who revel in their deceptive teachings while feasting together with you.  14 Their eyes are full of adultery and are unable to desist from sin, and they entice unstable ones. They have a heart trained in greed. They are accursed children.  15 Abandoning the straight path, they have been led astray. They have followed the path of Baʹlaam the son of Beʹor, who loved the reward of wrongdoing,  16 but was reproved for his own violation of what was right. A voiceless beast of burden speaking with a human voice hindered the prophet’s mad course. 17 These are waterless springs and mists driven by a violent storm, and the blackest darkness has been reserved for them.  18 They make high-sounding statements that are empty. By appealing to the desires of the flesh and with acts of brazen conduct, they entice people who have just escaped from those who live in error.  19 While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for if anyone is overcome by someone, he is his slave.  20 Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first.  21 It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received.  22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”
     
  14. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Scholars call out Putin and the 'escalation' of persecution against Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia   
    This is essential to understand. Victims are victims, and abusers are abusers.
    What with violent behavior in shape of shunning? If JW members use bullying behavior in the form of shunning, "social distance" toward ex members or "spiritually weak" members, we can name it as abusers/victims relation. If third party see this and want to stop such relations between them, what tool will they use? Legal, semi legal, illegal? Some western courts decided that JW internal policies (dogmas) are not of concerns for secular authorities and their citizens. Russian courts said opposite. Both decisions are legal according to different courts understanding and their laws. 
    What looks like understanding of individuals inside and outside JWorg? According to JW's belief system in "final day" god will violently destroy all violent people. And spare all victims? This illustration (in form of JW hope) shows how "violence" is justified if you used it against "abusers".
    JW people are "neutral" in question of wars, revolutions and other "violent" changes inside societies. And want to be "peaceful", but resolutely refuse to change their "shunning policy" parallel with some other questionable directives and instructions. 
    Who is who in Russia or in US, Europe etc? 
  15. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Isabella in AZERBAIJAN: Regime admits freedom of religion and belief violations to ECtHR   
    In nine cases concluded in September at the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), Azerbaijan admitted it violated freedom of religion or belief and the ECtHR has closed the cases. Yet, as lawyer Khalid Agaliyev noted, despite many ECtHR judgments against Azerbaijan, "we don't see any follow-up from these judgments. We want the general human rights situation to change under the influence of these judgments. Unfortunately, this is not happening".
    In nine cases concluded in September at the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) in Strasbourg, Azerbaijan admitted that it violated the rights of people to freedom of religion or belief. The regime pledged to pay compensation to the victims within three months of the ECtHR decisions. On 3 September the Court issued its decisions and then closed all nine of the cases.
    Azerbaijan has admitted to the Court its violation of the freedom of religion or belief of Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses in earlier cases (see below).

    The government admitted violating the rights of four Jehovah's Witnesses punished for meeting for worship in 2010, and the Jehovah's Witness community in the capital Baku denied permission to import religious literature in 2011. It also admitted violating the rights of seven Muslims punished for discussing their faith in a meeting raided by police in 2015 (see below).

    "The Government of the Republic of Azerbaijan hereby wishes to express – by way of unilateral declaration – acknowledgement of the fact that there have been violations of the applicants' rights guaranteed under the Convention [European Convention on Human Rights]," the government admitted in the case of those punished for meeting for worship. The wording in the other cases varied only over whether there was one or more applicant.
    http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2605
  16. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in Scholars call out Putin and the 'escalation' of persecution against Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia   
    Even the Devil can be right once in a while. Massimo Introvigne is already on jw.org in half a dozen places.
  17. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Scholars call out Putin and the 'escalation' of persecution against Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia   
    Signers include conference speakers J Gordon Melton of Baylor University in Waco, Texas; Massimo Introvigne of CESNUR in Torino, Italy; Raffaella Di Marzio of the Center for Studies on Freedom of Belief, Religion and Conscience in Rome; and other international scholars of religion.
    ------------------------------
    ABOUT US
    Sight Magazine is an editorially independent, Australian-based website covering local and global news and issues from a Christian perspective. ....................For a concise statement of our Christian beliefs, we refer to the Nicene Creed.
    ------------------------------
    Massimo Introvigne (born June 14, 1955, in Rome) is an Italian sociologist of religion[1] and intellectual property attorney.[2][3] He is a founder and the managing director of the Center for Studies on New Religions (CESNUR), a Turin-based organization which has been described as "the highest profile lobbying and information group for controversial religions".[4] .................In 1972, he joined conservative Catholic group Alleanza Cattolica.[8][better source needed] From 2008 to 2016 he has served as vice-president of the group................. he advocates doctrinaire positions that favour groups like Scientology."[4]  In the mid-1990s, Introvigne testified on behalf of Scientologists in a criminal trial in Lyon.[4]................journalists described Introvigne as a "cult apologist", saying he was tied to the Catholic Alliance and Silvio Berlusconi's then ruling party.[22] Introvigne responded that his scholarly and political activities were not connected................He was the Italian director of the Transylvanian Society of Dracula,............In 1997, J. Gordon Melton and Introvigne organized an event at the Westin Hotel in Los Angeles where 1,500 attendees came dressed as vampires,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    ?????? and JW's accepts his "concerns" about their future in Russia :))
  18. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Isabella in Jehovah’s Witnesses Sue FaithLeaks Owners Over Convention Videos   
    Jehovah’s Witnesses Resolve Copyright Dispute With FaithLeaks
    The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the owners of the religious whistleblower site FaithLeaks resolved their dispute over the site’s unauthorized posting of copyrighted materials, according to a filing in Manhattan federal court.
    FaithLeaks admitted to reproducing 74 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society of Pennsylvania videos without permission and agreed to stop displaying them on its website, according to the consent judgment in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York said.
    FaithLeaks once collected documents from whistleblowers in religious communities “to enable and expand news reporting, public commentary, and criticism related to religion,” its website said.
    https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/jehovahs-witnesses-resolve-copyright-dispute-with-faithleaks
  19. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    JW people are not independent in spirituality. And they accept this ideological aspect in their church, because independence is viewed as wrong and against God.
    But :))), male members can choose, independently, colors of tie, .... but tie is mandatory. There is no negotiation about tie. If you want be on stage that will not be possible without tie. Or perhaps to give comment at meeting without tie as baptized member.   Teaching people how to "fish" independently, can be dangerous for teachers in WTJWorg :)) 
     
  20. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in Prophecy & Signs, Truth & Conspiracy, Covid-19, the UN, Disgusting Thing, Truth and Conspiracies   
    In+ these+ Goals+ and+ targets,+ we+ are+ setting+ out+ a+ supremely+ ambitious+ and+ transformational+ vision.+ We+ envisage+ a+ world+ free+ of+ poverty,+ hunger,+ disease+ and+ want,+ where+all+life+can+thrive.+"
     
    Our own magazine, the 1995 WT had some good things to say about the UN. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1995720



    “For 50 years the United Nations organization has made notable efforts to bring about world peace and security. Arguably, it may have prevented a third world war, and the wholesale destruction of human life through the use of nuclear bombs has not been repeated. The United Nations has provided millions of children with food and medicine. It has contributed to improved health standards in many countries, providing, among other things, safer drinking water and immunization against dangerous diseases. Millions of refugees have received humanitarian assistance”.
    The magazine also states the JW position regarding the UN: “Jehovah’s Witnesses view the United Nations organization as they do other governmental bodies of the world. They acknowledge that the United Nations continues to exist by God’s permission. In harmony with the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses render due respect to all governments and obey them as long as such obedience does not require that they sin against God.”

    Of course, and this is a given for JWs, like all other governments, the UN will not exist one day. The same magazine goes on to say: “Then Jesus Christ, the “King of kings and Lord of lords,” and his army of heavenly warriors will dissolve all human governments and put to death all who reject God’s sovereignty".

    I think what @Arauna maybe had in mind is that without Jehovah, this is an impossible task and that those who try to achieve it lack humility and reliance on God, and it is Satan who is trying to promote that kind of thinking.....the independence from God. After all, this was his original reasoning with Eve.
    However, and looking at it realistically, I doubt any of those people who try to implement these good things are even aware that they should look to God for guidance and look to his Kingdom to bring the solution. So I think we should be fair and admit that there are many people who are unwittingly supporting Satan's methods, rather than knowingly trying to devise some evil, diabolical plan. Satan is the master of deception, and he knows that this method works better than outright bidding someone to do evilness. After all, most people have some good in them, and have a conscience, because they were created that way. There must have been a reason why Jesus was fond of mankind, and why he was willing to give his life for them (Proverbs 8:31). Same for Jehovah, who doesn’t desire anyone to be destroyed.

    The UN is only evil and disgusting in the sense that it is haughty enough to think that they may achieve all these good things by themselves, without God, thinking they can give themselves credit for something that is clearly not in their capacity to achieve.... imo....

  21. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    Mr Harley seems to be increasing in his name calling and his accusations of people hating the Org. 
    This reminds me so much of Arauna, they seem to run on the same lines.   
    For my part I send warmest Christian love to all, from a very wet and windy England. Keep safe. 
     
  22. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Matthew9969 in 90 Sands Street sale closes for $170M, former hotel to house homeless   
    Such a contrast to Jesus, who never had a place to lay His head, and the disciples / Apostles too.
    So much materialism now, so much money, but no truth.
  23. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to admin in COVID-19 + UK .   
    The whole ''eat out to help out'' scheme & allowing everyone to go on foreign holidays really was a terrible idea
     
  24. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    Here we had severe weather, hail, much rain, strong wind, again, last night. 
  25. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    If you have a definite statement to make, you do not start with “maybe.” Your statement sheds no light on anything other than you hate the JW organization, which we all knew already.
    In fact, if the counter.org article that began this thread is correct, there were none that did follow their view of USDA. They all had food distributions in their parking lots, you had to fetch the food quickly before it rotted, and run through a gauntlet of prayer services or ‘soul-salvations’ in the process. Only the JWs complied with the requirements of the program, insofar as the article states.
    I have no idea where this comes from. I think Witness just made it up. It is not in any of the articles cited and if there are any statements about food being discarded, they are not associated with JWs. At the same time, if there were to be found any instances of this I would hardly be shocked. Have you ever had food in the fridge go bad because you did not eat it (or distribute it to someone else) in time? But on a large scale? No.
    However, if you want me to state that the Watchtower did not go all out to fix the world’s broken system, I will concede the point. That does not mean that they abused anything, and it seems from the counter.org story that they were the only group that did not.
    Can we agree that since JWs comprise .01% of the world’s population, what they do or do not do will not make a difference to the world’s success? If they did nothing but offer flowers to passerby on the street, they would not spoil the world’s efforts to save itself.
    Frankly, I don’t see what’s so horrendous about even the “abuses” the article attributes to some church groups. Even if I find those abuses distasteful, still food is distributed to anyone who comes to fetch it. The counter.org article just reflects jealousy, in my view, that people of faith will do more to solve ills than do secular people, who are more apt to address it through massive agencies and then spend the rest of their lives on lawyers prosecuting the abuses and corruption that inevitably occurs. If people of faith want to call attention to what implants the generous spirit within them, why should the humanists not be able to live with that? They just loath God. Sometimes I think they would rather let people starve than to see them fed but preached to.
    The problem with getting the food out is one of distribution, not supply. Here, Witness reveals herself as the hateful wench that she is as she repeatedly says, “Who needs organization?” Duh. That is exactly what is needed—it is not a supply challenge, but one of distribution—and that’s what Jehovah’s people excel at, and that is why they get the food out more effectively than anyone else. 
    Now, to take up Witness’s statement again as a speculation, not as an indictment that it obviously lacks the strength to become, though she thinks it does—let us entertain it as a speculation, though the counter.org gives no hint of it...
    The counter.org is a secular humanist organization, and as such I can readily believe it would pass over without comment any faith-based organization doing the work “properly.”. They are just jealous that people of faith will do what they cannot motivate their own to do on a scale large enough to get the job done, and so they malign the people who are getting it done. Even the Watchtower, with its firm stand on God’s kingdom as the ultimate answer, will say things of the greater world like, “True, some good has been accomplished, but....” But the counter.org article highlights nothing but what it thinks is bad.
    So I’ll entertain Witness’s thought as a speculation: 
    Maybe. What she means is that maybe there are some faith groups who are helping the world’s broken distribution system and keep their mouth’s shut about God as they are doing it. And maybe there are. More on this later, hopefully today, but maybe not till tomorrow or even Monday. My wife is after me to do some things that she foolishly thinks need doing. After I wet-vac all the rainwater in the house, hopefully I will have time to complete this comment.
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