Patiently waiting for Truth

At that point, he would have been labeled by today's standards a "PIMO" - physically in, mentally out.  I doubt very much that he had any regard whatsoever for organizational protocol.  He had seen its abusive tactics over the years already, used against his own father.  
 
Arauna, I lived a hundred miles shy of a thousand, from my son at the time.  I didn't hear of this until he decided to move back home.  
Yes, please do blame my son and myself for another person's hypocrisy...if that makes you feel better. 
 

You quote this scripture but you still think it OK to mix with such ones on a social level? You condemn us for disfellowshipping such ones?  Where is the hypocrisy? hhhhmmmmm.

Fornication - if your son had proof of this - he himself was guilty as an accomplice -  because he did not let the elders know.  He knows the principles set out in the bible.... we learn that we should not tolerate wickedness amongst us.  We do not help to cover up a problem, or wrongdoing.  How many times did David not write in the Psalms that he does not sit with the wicked or tolerate their deeds.
So your own thinking is warped as you assisted your son to accuse the elders …….but not to be part of the solution to the problem - to show courage and go to the elders and provide evidence,  ....…...or at least warn them so they could talk to the young man.....about his partying and drinking. 
If your son did not have proof of fornication to take to the elders but did not warn them that the young man is on a  self-indulgent path - he is is as guilty as you...I presume he had some warped guidance from you or have the same attitude as you.   He, like you, expected to get a guilty conviction from elders for behavior they probably were unaware of; they probably had no idea of the extent of the partying.  If there was not enough proof of adultery, your son could still have been part of the solution but instead blamed it on …...….privilege?  Victimhood attitude?  He could have been brave and been part of the solution but no, it is easier to be self-righteously superior and accuse the,,,,, privilege.... Did he expect the elders to have a crystal ball?  Did he expect the elders to follow up on the young man when they did not know that it was a pattern of behavior...  
Elders would have asked the young man if it is true.... maybe even believed his ...excuses...... but the young man would have been warned that he is on their radar.    Your son would have had the satisfaction that he pleased Jehovah - not people.     So if this issue came up again by another person telling the elders about the partying and drinking..... 2 witnesses,,,,that would be enough for elders to get serious about the young man and realize he is hiding something and maybe outright ask him if he has been involved in fornication...…
So your example is not proof of injustice and 'privilege' but proof of a sons cowardice to show integrity to snitch on buddies, which is as destructive as self-righteousness.

Seen enough of your warped accusations and logic. As I said before - you feed off your hate somehow...which is not based on justice.  It is based on raw emotion of hate for everything to do with JWs, GB.  Arguments that show both sides ( and there are people on this forum who are prepared to meet your arguments by validating some things you say, to try to think the way you do, in order to reason with you) these people do not touch your reasoning abilities at all. It is like Ground Hog Day (over and over) same old same old.... talking to you.
There is another person on here - same thing.  Over emotional - no sound biblical reasoning. Just triggered. triggered all the time …,,,, not using the bible  as a sound, logical, healthy disciplining tool (which I am prepared to listen to if arguments are based on reality) but as a self-righteous weapon to accuse, accuse, accuse...…… . It is really like ground hog day talking to you guys.  I have seen such good reasoning here on this forum and have learnt a lot myself.... but with you two - it is like a cul-de-sac - the pits. 

The National Secular Society has urged Britain's charity regulators to ensure the restructuring of Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) charities does not obstruct victims of child abuse from claiming compensation.
The NSS has raised the issue with the Charity Commission for England and Wales and the Scottish charity regulator, OSCR, after a report on BBC Radio 4's Sunday programme this week.
The programme reported that the church is selling off substantial amounts of property and land that it owns. As part of a significant restructuring of the organisation, each congregation is being asked to dissolve its charitable status and merge – along with its assets – with the Kingdom Hall Trust.
The trust is a registered charity whose aims include being a "custodian trustee holding title to freehold and leasehold properties acquired as places of worship".
The assets mentioned on the Sunday programme included kingdom halls, which are used for worship and meetings.
An abuse survivor and lawyers who spoke to the programme expressed concern that such a restructuring could leave JW charities unable to pay potential liabilities.
A number of JW churches worldwide have been subject to investigations regarding their handling of sexual abuse allegations in recent years. In Australia, JW organisations have consolidated and sold properties worth millions of pounds amid a series of legal claims and a damning report from a royal commission.
NSS comment
NSS chief executive Stephen Evans said: "It is clearly not in the public interest for charities to be permitted to restructure in ways that may impede victims and survivors of abuse within these communities from claiming compensation.
"We therefore urge the Charity Commission to use all available powers to ensure that the restructuring of JW charities does not impede abuse victims' and survivors' ability to obtain settlements."
Jehovah's Witnesses and abuse in Britain
JW communities' handling of abuse allegations will come under increased scrutiny next month, when the Independent Inquiry on Child Sexual Abuse is due to conduct hearings on the issue.
In 2018 scores of alleged victims accused the JWs of a culture of cover-up of child sexual abuse. Earlier this year at least 20 former JWs launched legal action over abuse which they say they suffered.
In 2017 the Charity Commission severely criticised the New Moston Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Manchester over its handling of allegations of abuse.
And in 2016 the Supreme Court ruled that the Watch Tower and Bible Tract Society of Great Britain, which oversees JW congregations, couldn't prevent the commission from conducting an inquiry over its handling of abuse allegations.
This week's episode of the Sunday programme is available on the BBC website; listen from 5:20 to 21:45 for the relevant section.

Always blame-shifting. 
“What is Blame-Shifting? Escaping responsibility. . . Blame-shifting is an emotionally abusive behavior or tactic.
Blame-shifting or “blaming the victim” is a form of context switching and crazy making. When you are confronting them on something they did or attempting to set boundaries, they switch the whole focus back to you, and thus put you on the defensive. Now the focus is on you and they slither  (Isa 59:8) away. This gets you way off track and off balance right where they want you–derailed. Clever huh, unless you are on the receiving end of this crazy making.” 
And on a sadder level of this blameshifting, concerning child abuse:
In order to discredit a victim, an abuser will often blame the victim for their own actions, even going so far as to say the victim is in fact the one who committed the abuse. This may cause the victim to feel defeated or like they are losing their mind. In a particularly weakened state, the victim may even believe they are at fault. Abusers often claim friends, family, mental health professionals, church leaders or other authorities are in agreement with them, which has the effect of isolating the victim and preventing the victim from getting help.
Now the abuser has all the power and control over the victim and their relationship.  
Blame-shifting is a way to escape taking responsibility." 
 https://www.thehaguepsychologist.nl/what-is-blame-shifting-escaping-responsibility/
 
Wow, the entire organization is guilty of blameshifting in several ways, throughout its hierarchy.  I’ll bet there is a WT article about this… 
Indeed, there is: ‘You Must Be Holy Because I Am Holy’  Wt 96/8/1 pp 10-14
“Jesus clearly taught that what is in the heart will become evident by what a person says and does.” 
It quotes Matthew 12:34; 15:18-20.
“Holiness is not achieved by taking the line of least resistance or by being self-indulgent. That kind of person will always make excuses for his conduct and try to place the blame elsewhere. Perhaps we need to learn to become responsible for our actions and not be like some who allege that fate stacked the deck against them because of family background or genetics… (we are not inspired, we can err)
 The root of the matter lies in the heart of the individual. Does he or she love righteousness? yearn for holiness? desire God’s blessing? The psalmist made the need for holiness clear when he said: “Turn away from what is bad, and do what is good; seek to find peace, and pursue it.” The apostle Paul wrote: “Let your love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is wicked, cling to what is good.”—Psalm 34:14; 97:10; Romans 12:9.
 
Obviously, anyone who loves righteousness, yearns for holiness and desires God's blessing, has the valid right to "shun" the GB and the entire leadership for their hypocrisy and blameshifting.

I think how GB silly excuses going in this way: "we are rowing", "we are not inspired", we can err", "sometimes brothers and sisters who reading publications are overzealous, "apostles had wrong expectations so sometimes JW's have had wrong expectations", etc. 

Very true.  It is why many leave the organization.  They want nothing more to do with false doctrine.  They can use the word of God to verify their reason for leaving.   How can the GB, who repeatedly err in direction, predictions and doctrine, direct the judgment of another, as spiritually "dead"?  (Rev 13:15)
Was Harold Camping a false prophet?  Yep, but he apologized for misleading thousands with false predictions.  Is the GB a composite "false prophet"?  Yep, and they make silly excuses for misleading millions with false predictions. 
Which one is forgiven by God?  You will most like say, the GB, of course! 
But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”  Rev 21:8
 
 
 
 
 

Then we both should be called apostates.  
Disfellowshipping is an across-the-board condemnation for everything from smoking, celebrating Christmas, drunkenness, infidelity, fornication, murder, child abuse, rejection of the organization and the GB’s leadership, etc.  In ALL cases, shunning is expected.  But what do see, Arauna?  Partiality when it comes to child abuse, where the elders have hidden this sin from the congregations for years.  They have also hidden the perpetrator by allowing him into another congregation!   In many cases concerning this, who is disfellowshipped?  The victim, who is BLAMED for letting it happen!  And when he or she speaks against the failures of the elder body, that person is SHUNNED - disfellowshipped.
From my experience in the congregations, many elders were drunkards and that “finer detail” was ignored.
My oldest son moved into another state and became friends with two young men who were in the new congregation he joined.  They shared an apartment together.  One of these young men was an elder's son, who engaged in wild partying, fornication and drunkenness away from the eyes of his father and the congregation.  He maintained a good profile as a JW and received "privileges" because his father was an elder.  My son would call him on his actions when the boy would return home from partying, obviously drunk.  This added to the observation of hypocrisy that my son had perceived through hypocritical treatment of his family by the elder body, and he eventually left the organization.   When he moved away from there, he received a call from both of his previous roommates, saying that they would have to SHUN him for his choice. They were compelled to let him know this, even though he is not disfellowshipped.  He told the two-faced elder's son, "you know you don't believe in it either", and the boy told him he was right, but he loved the attention, friends and family too much to leave it.  He said it was an "easy" life.  
It is an easy life for him, because his conscience has been seared through the hypocrisy established in your organization.
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron."  1 Tim 4:1,2
 
 
"The Cost of Life" - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-cost-of-life.html
 
 
 

What part of Jehovah's word do all of you NOT understand?  You profess to be Christians, but hate the word of God which instructs us to not eat or speak to those who are repeat offenders.  Cesar mentioned a few scriptures above.  I can add quite a few more....
So what do you have against these scriptures?  Instead you attack JWs because we OBEY  (not elders) but the WORD of God.  You follow your own desires and hate us because we OBEY..
So - who are the HYPOCRITS?   Those who profess the bible but do not obey its finer details?  ... or JWs who DO obey the finer details?  HMMMMMM...… 
 

What is that "different word"?  "Disfellowshipped"?  I think "shun/shunning" is more part of your (all JWs) vocabulary than you realize.
 
 
 Good question!
My question is, why is there argument over the obvious?  Is there some sort of sub-conscience guilt about the act of disfellowshipping, by referring to it as "shunning"?  Is that why the lawyer had to hide the facts?  
But then, perhaps the lawyer thought his lie would be left unchallenged, and the GB also, as JWI pointed out the act of manipulating access to articles, to show complete support of the lawyer's words. 
However, this article entitled, "Can You Be True To God, Yet Hide The Facts?",  in the WT 74/1/15 p. 35-37, makes a good point:
 
“WHAT results when a lie is let go unchallenged? Does not silence help the lie to pass as truth, to have freer sway to influence many, perhaps to their serious harm?
If you are among those seeking to be faithful to God, the issues these questions raise are vital for you today. Why? Because God’s servants in every period of history have had to face up to the challenge these issues present. They have had to expose falsehood and wrongdoing and warn people of dangers and deception—not just in a general way, but in a specific way, in the interest of pure worship. It would have been far easier to keep silent or say only what people wanted to hear. But faithfulness to God and love of neighbor moved them to speak. They realized that “better is a revealed reproof than a concealed love.”—Prov. 27:5.
 
 
 

They may have put  it in writing a few places ……. However, I have never heard elders announce from the platform that someone was "shunned"  they always use the word "disfellowshipped".   That is the official term used.  This includes the meaning that a person can still come to meetings with restrictions if they accept the discipline.
To me this is a lot of nitpicking - because these accusers do NOT accept that the bible says. The bible is clear that we should have nothing to do with a repeat offender or share in his actions. No matter what terms are used for it.....   They therefore blacken the name of JWs  and thus thereby prove they are opposers of Jehovah's written word because this is a clear instruction from Jehovah to protect the congregation members from the "leaven" that can grow in a congregation. 

I think i would "agree" with GB who said how internet (in fact :)) JWorg official site and JW library), is very dangerous place for true Christians aka JW members. WTJWorg IT experts can remove "spiritual food" from your "table" (a well-laden table of nourishing spiritual food served at the right time.) which is coming "from JHVH through Jesus through GB" and make it to disappear. That it looks as if something has never even been spiritual food  available for hungry and thirsty individuals who are "poor in spirit" as Bible said. When "this generation" (people who have good memory and know what was before and what was after) pass, not one of JW member in the future will never know nothing about this and other "clarifications".  
Amazing thing, internet! A supreme means of deceiving, cheating the people. 

@Witness referenced a recent Watchtower article from 2013 that shows that the word "shunning" is interchangeable with "disfellowshipping."
It was also in the same 2013 Watchtower where an article was referenced on jw.org:
*** w13 8/1 p. 2 Table of Contents ***
READ MORE ONLINE | www.jw.org
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES—Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?
(Look under ABOUT US > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS)

The Frequently Asked Questions section is still there, but that particular article has been removed. You have to go to the Wayback Machine (internet.archive.org) and look for the article that was picked up 62 times between August 30, 2012 and February 6, 2019. (There have been 16,777 captures from the jw.org website on the Wayback Machine from 2012, and the most recent was today). The article in question says:
Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?
... We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped.
And we can go back to the 1970's up through 2016 (and website up to 2019) to see that the word "shun" was commonly used as part of our vocabulary for how we should shun disfellowshipped persons. The 1988 case has been mentioned above as it was reported in the 1988 Watchtower.
The shunning article was removed from the website in February 2019 about 15 months after the Canadian case in 2017. Just before the Canadian court presentation in 2017, the October 2017 Wathtower said this:
*** w17 October p. 16 par. 19 The Truth Brings, “Not Peace, But a Sword” ***
For example, Jehovah instructs us to “stop keeping company” with unrepentant wrongdoers. (1 Cor. 5:11-13) Despite our pain of heart, we must avoid normal contact with a disfellowshipped family member by telephone, text messages, letters, e-mails, or social media.
This is exactly at odds with Gnam's claim that normal family life goes on.
2017
*** lvs chap. 3 p. 40 par. 19 Choose Friends Who Love God ***
He may choose to leave the congregation himself, or he may have to be disfellowshipped. If this happens, the Bible clearly says that we should “stop keeping company” with him. (Read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13; 2 John 9-11) This can be very difficult if he is a friend of ours or a member of our family. But in a situation like this, our loyalty to Jehovah must be stronger than our loyalty to anyone else.—See Endnote 8.
2019
*** od p. 200 Part 2: Christian Living ***
17. If an announcement is made that someone is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, how should we treat him?
• “Stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.”—1 Cor. 5:11.
• “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.”—2 John 10.
2016
It was in the 2016 Assembly where the following part of the program even included a dramatic example of how family members don't allow family life to go on normally:

But the actual word "shun" disappeared from the website in 2019 (so far).

I really don't get why you need to involve other people's, mine in this matter, emotions. I am speaking with you and other people here, not because i like you or not like you. We discuss, at the moment, about how WT lawyer represent your organization on what he use to "prove" your activity and practice. 
Your publications, edited, printed, published by WTJWorg and scattered with help of members and internet shows (i put some of them in previous comment) without any doubt that words "shun" and "shunning" are part of "clear language" in JW "spiritual paradise". Why you have need to contradict and deny it ?? It’s easier to admit and then we’ll start a new topic.   

Quote CC Matthew 18:15-17 15"If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. But the CCJW don't follow this procedure. They do it all in secret. So no one in the congregation knows truth from lies. And when someone leaves of their own choice, the GB and Elders are too frightened to tell the congregation that someone actually chose to leave. 
Funnily enough Jesus chose Matthew and he was a Tax Collector. 

Definition of a hypocrite:
 
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion 2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings        

Here, the word “shunned” is interchangeable with “disfellowshipped”:
"We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. W 13/8/1
 
 
 

And these words do NOT  exist in our vocabulary. We use a different word which indicates that the person can still associate but without the privileges they had before.. So what part of this is hypocritical? The fact that you do not like that people do not have ALL the priviledged they had before?
Here you remind me of the parent who does not put the child in time-out as he said he would.  He still loves the child but the child needs consequences for actions taken....... 

Typical, 4Jah did not like this sentence.  He just likes the JWs to carry the blame to fulfill his hate-ocd.  He is not really interested in justice.... the perpetrator can go free and the JWs must 'pay' the penalty...… that is HIS kind of justice... (capitals deliberate).  The typical unreasonable guy I would NOT like to have as a friend.
 

WT Lawyer David Gnam explicit claim and argument in court is how the words “shun and shunning” do not exist in the vocabulary and practice of the JW church.
He mixing spiritual and personal needs/life, but that is not problem, because both is not separate. Must exist together . And i do not have to "justify" nothing about it because of same reasons.  
Siting near other persons and singing together with other persons (David Gnam statement) and much more than this two, belongs to that same category you named - "spiritual and personal". Why you need me to make "explanation" or "justification" on this?? I really don't understand.
What i "don't understand"  is, why lawyer David Gnam Exposé  on Court about JW religious beliefs and practice is opposite of what JW doing !!
 

As I mentioned before, in comment to Arauna, my primary response is about WT Lawyer and his false presentation of reality about dfd and shunning ! If you have something about it we can continue with conversation. Have no interest, temporary, arguing about this JW religious ideology and doctrine. Thanks!

What rubbish you people talk @JW Insider  @TrueTomHarley @Arauna 
Especially Tom as he can only make, what he thinks are jokes. His mind doesn't seem capable of sensible thinking. Poor man.
As for JWI, making very weak excuses for the GB and their Lawyers.  It just doesn't cut it. No one with any sense will believe you.
And i note you are using the WTS, not the CCJW. However the Leaders are in control of both, but pretended they are not connected to either, in court if I remember correctly. 
The Leaders of the CCJW / JW organisation made the rules that Child Sexual Abuse was to be dealt with internally and that outside authorities and the Police were not  to be notified. They also made the rules that Paedophiles were to kept hidden in the congregations. No announcement was to be made to the congregation and no name was to be given out. They also made the rule of using the Two Witness rule against victims. They also made the rule that Victims had to face the Paedophile that they were accusing. They also made the rule that the victim could not have a person to support them in the room whilst they were being questioned or when they had to face the Paedophile. A child had to be 'alone' without support, in a room with the Paedophile that had assaulted them, and also being questioned by three men. 
NOW YOU TELL ME THAT THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. What rubbish you talk. 
Remember that the money was there in the Org when these things were taking place. That money was probably invested and grew much profit. It's not all new money. So those that were victims of CSA deserve an apology and a payout. BUT no, the GB think it is their money. And you JWI said  "In most cases they are just using the law to protect the financial interests of the client." YES JWI, you have it in one. 
BUT they are misusing the law by directly telling LIES. And the GB / Lawyers have no interest in honesty, love, mercy or justice. It is all just Collateral Damage, so as to keep the money pot full in the CCJW. Mr Rook knew that too. 
What hypocrites you people really are. To pretend to people that the CCJW is such a safe place and so loving, when you know it's so untrue. Never mind, Almighty God will sort the GB out and form a true religion with the True Anointed. 

If "messy" process lead to "right" findings that would be sort of miracle. A chaotic sequence of events consequently produces harmony.  :)) Sometimes it could be possible, but each and every time?
The destruction of the notes must be supervised and there must be exact instructions as to what is being destroyed and after how long time. Some notes, especially those explaining why and how the members of the legal (judicial) committee came to extremely important findings and conclusions should have a very long lifespan in some cases forever (or as long as the parties involved are alive). Especially when it comes to cases that are legally punishable.
Elders received, as i can conclude from general understanding, directive from Bethel, Legal Department or some other WT Deportment, you would know better, to destroy some sort of notes about this and that subject. But all those elders, they do not know what the regulations and procedures are when extracting and destroying archival and registry material. I am very sure they making big mistakes in this matter.   

Well said. 
I sympathize with all victims but with the latest laws the government has shifted the responsibility of bad legislation onto all the organizations working with children.
The government changed the laws so the victims can go after old cases retroactively now they are adult and can talk and testify better and take the ' organization ' to court.  This means that the government is shifting its responsibility on the organizations who work with children. But many of these organizations have closed.... like boy scouts etc. We are still active.
There are not many JW cases but because it is JW, those who hate us blow up these cases as if we are all child molesters..... when most of us live clean, honest lives and hate these crimes.
They are not going after the perpetrator because they know it is too hard to convict.  They go after the organization - which in most cases did not have the resources ( child psychologists etc) to go after the perpetrator.
We are an organization which tries to create a safe environment for children but we are not a crime fighting organization. This is the job of the police and government. They should take these cases and get a conviction and put the perpetrator behind bars - not retroactively after 20 or 30 years put it on the organization.  
In this way the perpetrator is still walking free and JWs carry the shame. Perpetrator ....... does he have any consequences for his actions with this legislation!