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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    ….. perhaps the CC examined the evidence, and decided not to go on a “witch hunt”?
  2. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Pudgy in I have a question about your memorial.   
    In your dreams.
  3. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    Correct, and ... "shunning practice" stands between state money and WTJWorg pocket.  
  4. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    That’s why GB decided in one of his past decisions to have JWs in Mexico give up their “biblical principles and standards” in order to retain material ownership. Matter of Conscience or Hypocrisy? 
  5. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    M. Introvigne is not one of those who I would consider as objective critics and who would impress me with his opinion. When he says, I quote: "They are simply excluded from the family's religious activities, but otherwise the normal family relationships, including the marital relationship between husband and wife, continue", he repeats the mantra from the WT publication, which obscures the real state of life of such spiritually separated families.
    I have already stated in another topic that three children suffered severe emotional suffering because the mother under the influence of the elders prevented the children from keeping up with the excluded father, who no longer lived with them in the same household. The elders called the children to account when they found out about "illegal" contacts, in several occasions. The youngest child had suicidal thoughts, self-harm and was in fact completely mentally incapable of life. If the father has left his family this is enough for a negative effect on the children, and if the elders and religion forbid them to associate with the father, then the church leaders take responsibility for everything after that.
    Another example is one “awakened JW” whom his wife managed to “blackmail” to break her “rebellious spirit”. Now that man is PIMO (physically inside mentally outside). If a wife has to respect her husband within the marital union, why does one JW sister blackmail her husband into not becoming an “apostate”? Is she doing it (blackmail) under the influence of her conscience or is she under the influence of the “cult” of religion?
     
  6. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    Fortunately, Jesus told us AS INDIVIDUALS exactly and in precise detail how to chastise disobedient ones, and AS INDIVIDUALS what to do next.
    The question remains, are we doing it “just so”  ….. or just so that power and money are preserved?
    (Matthew Chapter 18, emphasizing verse 15).
    Anything more than that is brazen self aggrandizing tyranny, and usurpation of the authority of the Christ.
    ….. it is also cruel and unfair!
     
  7. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    In the 1947 Awake! the idea of shunning as the Catholics did it, and the way that we do it TODAY is described as:

    What principle changed since 1947?
    Hebrews 10:26-31 (…. Also emphasized in the 1947 Awake!.)

    What part of verse 30 changed since 1947?
     
  8. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    Probably so. But not without consequences. The book ‘Secular Faith’ (Mark Smith) reassures its secular audience that religion comes around to secular trends. It may take a bit longer, but it happens. And that is the goal of such policies as this in Denmark. 
    He examines five contentious issues in America’s past (slavery, divorce, homosexuality, abortion, woman’s rights) and concludes modern church members have more in common with contemporary atheists than they do with their own church counterparts of long ago. In the absence of firmness, spiritual values erode.
    Thus far, the ECHR has declined to reinterpret religious interpretations of scriptural text. If you tax-exempt one faith, you must tax-exempt them all. (You don’t have to tax-exempt any of them.)
    With the Ukraine war raging, they may even remind the Danish governments that invading troops are drawn from virtually every background of religious belief and secular disbelief except Jehovah’s Witnesses, and that perhaps if the latter were forced to accommodate dissenting views that might not be. They would learn to ‘modernize’—look to secular direction rather than ecclesiastical direciton, and thus in time be talked into anything by the ‘king,’ who can always mold the consciousness of his citizenry.
  9. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    It seems they are more concerned about law than about serving YHWH through Christ. 
    I would love to read the Watchtower / GB policy on all this. 
  10. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    quote from document:
    The content of the complaint
    In the complaint, it is mainly stated that the religious community does not violate the Religious Communities Act §§ 2 and 6, and that the State Administrator's decision is incorrect. It is also stated that the decision violates sections 16 and 101 of the Constitution and Articles 9 and 11 of the ECHR.
    The religious community writes in the complaint that they do not prevent anyone from opting out and that their exclusionary practice is protected under ECHR art. 9. They also write that children in practice are not excluded, and that the State Administrator has in any case not proved that the exclusion harms the children.
     
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    I assume that Norway might have similarities to Denmark where religion is not taken all that seriously. (It took my sister about 12 years to finally get Danish citizenship after marrying a Dane and living in the country. Now that their kids are grown, she and her husband are working in the US, where he has to keep getting his papers renewed.)
    Denmark subsidizes religions so that there is a place to have birth celebrations, baptisms, weddings and funerals. And for many citizens, the churches are a good avenue for both socializing and organizing charity. But churches in Denmark mirror the growing secularity of the people in the country. I've done some door-to-door work there and met almost no one who took religious teachings seriously. It was good for traditional reasons only.
    I think that there is an argument, then, that the Witnesses lose out because they take religion too seriously. There are probably others, especially individuals who might take their religion seriously enough to completely disengage from a former member who rejects the teachings. But these other religions, from what I have seen, do not make shunning an imposed policy. It's effectively only a matter of individual conscience. 
    If Denmark is any example, there was a Witness we knew in Copenhagen who tells us that they completely cut off their son who had a thriving construction and HVAC business, but mostly contracting with other Witnesses as clients or with the businesses of those other Witnesses. If his son had been disfellowshipped for adultery there would have been no problem, but instead he was disfellowshipped for disagreement with teachings (unspecified), and gave no indication that he would ever recant. I got the feeling that son has become agnostic or atheist. What bothered me was the pride that this brother (the father) had in the fact that by cutting off his son, he was also able to get most people in the congregation(s) to boycott his business and was pushing him toward financial ruin. He was sure that this would either serve as appropriate punishment or could even be the "tough love" that might make him rethink and recant.
    I really find it hard to imagine that other religions in Denmark (or possibly Norway) take their religious teachings so seriously. But the whole issue might also have been avoided if shunning was always brought up as a matter of conscience, and Biblical examples were used to help indicate why some Witnesses might choose to shun (for certain circumstances) and others might not.
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    I suspect it will two years before we are again allowed to treat people decently.
    Here is how it was a year after I was born, as explained in the 1947 Awake! Magazine.
     




  13. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    Being sued, and losing, is how the Society decided it was OK to take blood if it was fractionated and transfused in 13 separate tubes. 

    I found the Norwegian people exceptionally well reasoned people.
    ….. meanwhile, back in the United States …..

  14. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in The state subsidy is denied to WTJWorg in Norway   
    quote from document:
    The reasons for the decision
    The Religious Society Act sets several conditions for being able to receive state support. In our investigations, we uncovered several violations of the Religious Communities Act.
    1.
    Right to free withdrawal according to the Religious Communities Act § 2 Persons who voluntarily leave the faith community shall be treated in the same way as excluded members. This means that remaining members, family and friends, will not have contact with the excluded. The preparatory work for the Religious Communities Act § 2 points out that the right to freedom of religion presupposes that withdrawal can take place unconditionally and without obstacles on the part of the religious or philosophical community. By having rules for how the members should relate to excluded members, we found that the religious community prevents withdrawal. We regard the practice as a violation of the Religious Communities Act § 2
    2.
    Baptized minors may be excluded The exclusionary practice applies not only to adults, but also to baptized minors. This means that children can be excluded if they break the rules of the religious community. We have considered this practice to be a negative social control, and that it therefore violates children's rights. The religious Society itself describes the practice as a "strong form of correction". We consider this a violation of the Religious Communities Act § 6.
    3.
    Minor members may be exposed to social isolation For other children in the congregation who have not yet been baptized but who are considered “unbaptized publishers,” there is a similar practice of exclusion. If unbaptized publishers violate community rules, they should be deprived of the status of publisher and congregation members should avoid contact with them. We have considered this treatment as negative social control, and in violation of the child's rights. We also regard this as a violation of the Religious Communities Act § 6.
    presuda Norveškog suda o uskraćivanju državnog financiranja JW 20220330LTI_no.pdfpresuda Norveškog suda o uskraćivanju državnog financiranja JW 20220330LTI_no.pdf
  15. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in I have a question about your memorial.   
    If it wasn’t for Americans, you would be a slave, and the son or daughter of slaves, and if you still had a tongue, be speaking German.
  16. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Pudgy in I have a question about your memorial.   
    You seem to suffer from delusions of self importance and a need to be noticed.  Well that is the only reasonning I can find for all this dribble of stupid pictures.  
    And as for dear Carroll here she seems to forgt that the GB / Leaders used to say that the JW religion was the 'new ark' and that everybody had to be a baptised JW to be that ark, to be saved. 
    I think they've thrown that idea out the window now  
  17. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Matthew9969 in What is the Body of Christ?   
    Pudgy, you are the one with nothing, because all the material possesions in this 'world' amount to nothing. The Apostle Paul called it all 'rubbish'.  
    BUT you have proven that you NEED material things to give you 'faith' in.  Wow you have a building to go to. Wow you have a GB to worship. Wow you have Elders to serve . Wow you have little carts to pull along and set up, how cute. Wow you are told exactly what to preach, in fact, sometimes told to keep quiet and just hand out the GB's propaganda. Slaves of the GB and you think you have something ????????????? 
    BUT you do not have Spiritual Wisdom and you are not Annointed with Holy spirit. 
    And that James, is what bugs you and bugs other JWs.  It is so easy to see how JWs are soooooooo jealous of the Anointed ones.  But remember why the days will be cut short. ON ACCOUNT OF THE CHOSEN ONES. Not on account of the Earthly Class. 
    And delusions ? Yes James you probably have first hand experience with delusions. 
  18. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Arauna in I have a question about your memorial.   
    You seem to suffer from delusions of self importance and a need to be noticed.  Well that is the only reasonning I can find for all this dribble of stupid pictures.  
    And as for dear Carroll here she seems to forgt that the GB / Leaders used to say that the JW religion was the 'new ark' and that everybody had to be a baptised JW to be that ark, to be saved. 
    I think they've thrown that idea out the window now  
  19. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in I have a question about your memorial.   
    When Jesus was explaining to his Apostles about the “0verlapping Generations”, he could have used a chart like that, and the pointer stick, too.
    It May have appeared as feeble minded reasoning to do it, but he could have added a stethoscope and a long white lab coat.
    OH WAIT! ….., I REMEMBER NOW! …… Jesus never taught anybody anything about “Overlapping Generations”.
     
    …….. never mind. 
     
    (Pudgy notices if he puts one paw on top of another paw, humans think it is cute, and he has eight toes on one paw.)



  20. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in I have a question about your memorial.   
    Perhaps you should put a few things into perspective.

  21. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in I have a question about your memorial.   
    ……. just don’t drool all over …..
    ……. and don’t forget to take your meds!
    …… and don’t track mud across the nice, clean floor!
     
  22. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in I have a question about your memorial.   
    Matthew9969:
    Your attitude reminds me of the  (made up example …) college man in 1943, an American citizen working in New York, whose parents were German, who decided to leave the United States and return to his “homeland” to join the forces of the Third Reich, and fight for Adolph Hitler. Even though he did it, following the dictates of his conscience … he had no reasonable expectation of keeping his “”120 friends” in the United States, after committing TREASON against all that THEY held dear.
  23. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in What is the Body of Christ?   
    No clue? I specifically asked for the exact same thing all four times!
    no clue?
    NO CLUE?
    If you are not willing to post all three things here … you got nothing.
    THIS makes FIVE TIMES I have asked for the exact same information.
    NO CLUE !?
    ….. gimme a break!
  24. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in What is the Body of Christ?   
    Rats!
    …. and here I was ready to use my iPhone to re-target North Korean ICBMs.
  25. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in What is the Body of Christ?   
    I have challenged you TWICE before, and you choked.
    If you have something better …. Give me a (SINGLE) name, a physical street address, and a valid phone number for me to call.
    If you can’t do that …. You have nothing.
    I’m not looking for what you stated …ONLY at least 3 human beings, ONE to talk to on the phone, and a street address.  VERY SIMPLE! … but AGAIN ….. you choked and failed.
    After three tries, you failed each time. THIS is challenge No. 4.
    You got NOTHING …. Except your delusions.
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