Patiently waiting for Truth

How fitting this statement applies to the governing body.  
There is one mediator  between men and God, Jesus Christ.  1 Tim 2:5
“mediator”, according to the scriptures:  a medium of communication, arbitrator
“Arbitrator” - an independent person or body officially appointed to settle a dispute.
Who is the “arbitrator” in the organization?  The GB and their elder body. (Matt 24:48-51)
There is one Head of the anointed Body of Christ; one mediator. (Col 1:18)  No one has the right to tell Jesus’ anointed members not to BOND together, not to study the words/teachings of their Head, as one body.  (Eph 4:1-6) No one, should judge them for doing so as losing God’s Holy Spirit, through the judgment of those not anointed which leads to disfellowshipping. 
However, the large number of the priesthood allows it; out of fear, out of loss of family members, out of losing their own reputation before others.  They refuse to submit to the “chastising” and persecution for following God’s Son. (Matt 5:10-12) They have allowed “Gentiles” to over-run the Temple of God.  1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 11:2,2; Rev 13:7
“This is what the Lord says:
“‘Your wound is incurable,
    your injury beyond healing.
13 There is no one to plead your cause,
    no remedy for your sore,
    no healing for you.
14 All your allies have forgotten you;
    they care nothing for you.
I have struck you as an enemy would
    and punished you as would the cruel,
because your guilt is so great
    and your sins so many.
15 Why do you cry out over your wound,
    your pain that has no cure?
Because of your great guilt and many sins
    I have done these things to you.
16 “‘But all who devour you will be devoured;
    all your enemies will go into exile.
Those who plunder you will be plundered;
    all who make spoil of you I will despoil.
17 But I will restore you to health
    and heal your wounds,’
declares the Lord,
‘because you are called an outcast,
    Zion for whom no one cares.’  Jer 30:12-17
 
“Zion” is restored outside of the organization; where members of God’s priesthood can BOND together.
Isa 2:1-5
 
 
 
 

Yes. I think this is implied. It's a very imperfect world, and sometimes the world rubs off on us.
But this does not mean that all of the arguments made by WTS lawyers in defense of the WTS are false. I think this is what some non-Witnesses (especially, ex-Witnesses) are anxious to believe. What's shouldn't be lost here, is that many of the points that WTS lawyers make in cases about child abuse are actually quite true. For example:
The Watchtower Society/Organization is not responsible for the criminal and sinful actions of its members. Many of the arguments made in court that people complain about are merely trying to mitigate liability that was not the liability of the WTS in the first place. In many cases the victim goes after the WTS because that is the only place they can get financial redress. The primary criminal party is the perpetrator. There are times when the local elders are the ones showing negligence in after-the-fact investigations, trying to protect the reputation of the congregation or certain members of it. The liability, in this case should be on those elders. Only when following improper instructions from the WTS, should the WTS be partially liable. And even here, the local elders should understand their own personal responsibility if a process seems unconscionable. Much has been made of members of the judicial committees destroying notes made during the "investigation" process, as if this is all about a cover-up. Yet, destroying extraneous notes is (and often should be) common practice in organizations of all types, so that the findings are highlighted, not the messy process. If someone believes all elders are evil, they will think that the "official" version, which is never destroyed, is always a cover-up. But this view says more about the person imputing the wrong motives, and shows that they have not understood the typical investigation process. Watchtower disciplinary policy in congregations is not to be confused with Caesar's discipline. There are things the WTS should have done better to reduce the repetition of such crimes by perpetrators, but very little can be done about the original crime. There were things about the process in judging such matters that needed improvements too. More recently these "after-the-fact" matters and processes were handled and revised about as well as can be expected. Anyway, I only went off topic here to show that it's too easy to claim that WTS defense attorneys are constantly being dishonest. In most cases they are just using the law to protect the financial interests of the client. It's more of a negotiation, and they have to be careful what words they use. But there are also times when the "twisted" words of some attorneys shows that the WTS itself wishes it could hide some practices from the world. But if these practices are right, such as "shunning," then we should be proud to be upholding righteous counsel from the Bible. If upholding righteous counsel from the Bible makes us liable before the world, we should be proud to accept the consequences. Lying about it, or twisting words about it, makes it obvious that we are ashamed to uphold God's word in the way that we do.
This is quite separate from child abuse cases, which have also sometimes included dishonesty by both defense attorneys and attorneys for victims. But when Geoffrey Jackson argues that we don't believe that Proverbs referred to a physical rod for disciplining children, or when a Witness child custody attorney argues that our summer conventions were really more about vacation fun than spiritual education, or when . . . .
I won't turn it into an itemized list for opposers, but these things have already been commented upon elsewhere.

You are just trying to kill off 4Jah with cognitive dissonance and I do not approve. You know very well that he will wildly cheer one statement, turn furious at the next, and laugh hysterically at the one thereafter—and that the strain will cause him to drop dead.
Such attempted manipulation ought not be allowed. I am forwarding a note to the elders who run this forum to ban you from it.
It really is the case that in the last days people will be saying what is bad is good and vice versa. It is not only you. I just called out Arauna for trying to kill him too, by playing with matters of capitalization. Really, everyone is going awry here—all the true prophets have been killed off and it is only I that remains—yes, only I.

I haven't any information, knowledge or assumption are dishonesty of WT lawyers known to those who arrange their services before Court process. But, WTJWorg people, individuals who hired lawyers, they are certainly well acquainted with the main elements that their lawyer will use as a defense. Because of this premonition, the responsible people in the WT who deal with legal matters have a great responsibility. 
But because of the frequent practice of WT lawyers to deceive, present half-truths and obscure reality, I think that such JW individuals who hire lawyers (JW lawyers and non-JW lawyers) belong to the same described group from your comment..... And all that is possible with donated money, money that comes from various JW members, from old/young and not wealthy, from children. How sad. How very sad!

Jehovah will forgive the finger slip.... obviously you NOT.  Nitpicking is your forte.

@JW Insider  You seem to be deliberately missing the whole point. 
The GB deliberately use these Lawyers.  I don't know if these Lawyers are actually part of the CCJW / Watchtower Soc, but that matters not. The GB knows exactly what it is doing by employing these lawyers. 
Whereas Jesus said, recorded at  Matthew 5 
38  “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 40  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment; 41  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.
So now, would you like to continue to follow the dishonest GB, or would you prefer to follow Jesus and serve God properly. 

I notice you are getting picky on silly acronyms - where I come from we do not use them but in USA they are popular... so I use them on this forum.   God is only a title..... so do not pick a fight on silly things to get away from being exposed.

You are the one who mentioned that people cannot drink a beer together etc. It is so harsh... well this is why I used the example of a child being put in time-out.  If you are in time-out... take the discipline of Jehovah and start to serve him again. Do not let your pride get the better of you.

Lawyering (and barristering) is a whole field unto itself with its own ethics considerations, similar to how policeman in the United States are legally allowed, and often expected, to lie to a suspect to elicit incriminating information for a case. My oldest son is an attorney. In his last two years of law school they had him do paid summer internships with a well-known and well-respected firm in NYC, and they kept putting him on cases to help defend cigarette companies and insurance companies to lower their payouts. He was not an attorney yet, but he learned how the entire existence of some of the major law firms is based on their ability to get away with lying. After he took the exam and became a lawyer himself, he took a job in family court, and found, of course, that dishonesty pervades each side of arguments there, too. So now he does mostly real estate, wills and estates, and contract law. (Yet in just those few weeks of paid internship as a non-attorney he made more money than in his first year of being an attorney.)
The case with Gnam above is not nearly as serious as others, even compared to examples of other Watchtower lawyers in the U.S. But I don't condone such dishonesty, even in small amounts. In my opinion Mr. David Gnam is dishonest here, and therefore a wrongdoer, and very likely an unrepentant wrongdoer. I don't think he should be disbarred, but he should not be used by the Watchtower Society in any way unless he is ready to be honest.

John 8:1-11:  At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
 
This account is considered by many “Bible scholars” as a “spurious” set of scriptures, meaning its authenticity is in question. Others wholeheartedly defend it as unquestionably meant to be included in the book of John.  I tend to agree. 
The Pharisees' motivation was to accuse him of breaking the law covenant – this Jesus, whose coming fulfilled the law…in love. (Matt 5:17-20; Rom 13:8-10)   What he wrote on the ground, surely was seen by the Pharisees and understood; adding an even greater reason for their shamed departure when Jesus said, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” (Matt 8:11) 
This set of scriptures is left out of the organization’s bible, supposedly for their spurious intent; but we, who no longer adhere to the organization, fully see them as challenging the authority of its elders’ “judicial” actions when their own spurious accusations of condemnation, are made against us. (Luke 12:11,12; 12:45, John 16:2; Heb 13:13; Rev 13:15)
Shortly before this occurred, Jesus had taught in the temple courts during the Festival of Tabernacles. He walked among his people who were celebrating a feast that recalled to mind, two things; that God had delivered His people out of Egypt, and to remind them of the coming Messiah, who would establish God’s new spiritual dwelling/tent or “tabernacle”, to reside among His people. (Deut 18:15; 2 Sam 7:12,13; Acts 7:44,48-51; John 2:19-21; 4:21,23,24; 1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16;6:19; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 8:1,2; Rev 21:2,3) 
 I find it helpful to know what occurred on the last day of the Feast.  On this final day, the priests carried the last containers filled with water from the pool of Siloam, “living” spring water, which they had collected for the previous days’ rituals as well.  They paraded around the altar seven times before dramatically pouring it out ceremoniously on the ground.  It was to be an act of supplication, asking for God’s continual blessing to be upon them, and the remembrance of the forty-year period Israel wandered the desert with tents (“tabernacles”/ “booths”) as their temporary dwellings.  That time was a period of relying solely on God for their sustenance, while He “dwelt” or “tabernacled” with them in the ark of the covenant.  (Lev 23:42,43; Exod 25:8,9; 29:45;  2 Sam 7:4-6) 
 “Sukkot” as it was called, was also a celebration of the end of the harvest.
“Celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles for seven days after you have gathered the produce of your threshing floor and your winepress. 14 Be joyful at your festival—you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, and the Levites, the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns. 15 For seven days celebrate the festival to the Lord your God at the place the Lord will choose. For the Lord your God will bless you in all your harvest and in all the work of your hands, and your joy will be complete.”  Deut 16:13,14
The seriousness of observing this festival is outlined in Zech 14:16-19. 
With Jesus’ arrival, the entirety of this festival observance, which had become empty in meaning because of additional traditions, decrees and over-riding sins, would change. (Matt 15:1-3; 23:23; Mark 7:6,7)  God had rejected their pomp display and altered ceremonies of sacrifice. (Hos 6:6; Matt 9:13)  
This humble and holy man, who had already been shunned by most of the Jews, would stand up among the throngs of people reveling in their festivities, and bring them a message from God.  Would they listen? (Matt 17:5)  The Pharisees had already considered ways to kill him. (John 7:1) To his brothers who also didn’t believe him, he said:
“The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil.”  John 7:7
I can imagine that it was when all the Jews were intently watching the priests pour the “living waters” of Siloam on the ground, that Jesus then stood up and loudly proclaimed these words:
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.  Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”  John 7:37b,38
What did he mean by saying, “as Scripture has said”?
Prov 13:14 – “The teachings of a wise person are a fountain of life
    to turn one away from the grasp of death.”
Prov 18:4 – “The words of a person’s mouth are like deep waters.
The fountain of wisdom is an overflowing stream.”
1 Cor 10:1-4 – “Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.”
Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.”  John 7:16 
“Living water” from God through Christ, contains spiritual truth, life and righteousness, which the Pharisees had rejected well before Jesus’ arrival.  (Jer 2:13; Matt 3:7-10; 23:13-15; John 4:14) 
Jesus, as the Word of God, brought to his people life-giving teachings sourced in the Father of life.  (John 1:1,4; 5:21-23)
John 5:26,27 - For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
By rejecting the coming of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, they were also rejecting God. (Matt 3:9; Luke 10:16) 
From here we move forward to the event that occurred the next morning after the feast, when the Pharisees sought to trap Jesus, who had earlier declared that God “had entrusted all judgment to the Son”.  (John 5:21-23) 
 
Having hearts "far removed from" God; we see from this situation with the adulteress, that their inclination is to condemn, and not to forgive. What is God's judgment for such hypocrites? Matt 6:15 explains. 
What is the destiny of those whose sins are not forgiven by God?  Job 7:21(NLT)
tells us that they descend into the dust, and cease to exist.   
What was Jesus writing in the dust?
Writing a name down, establishes God's judgment of condemnation or favor.  (Deut 29:20; Mal 3:16; Dan 12:1; Luke 10:20; Heb 12:23; Rev 2:17; 13:8; 17:8; 20:15; 21:27)
 
Jesus was testifying to those who sought to condemn and murder the adulteress, that their wicked and hypocritical scheme, brought condemnation upon them.
Indeed they were hypocrites.
For they themselves were guilty of being spiritual adulteresses...
(Isa 1:1,21; Jer 23:10-12; Matt 23:33-38)
...while condemning others to death.
Pearl Doxsey - “What Was Jesus Writing in the Dust?”
 
Jesus was falsely accused of being a wicked blasphemer, and was condemned to death by these men whose hardened hearts refused to accept that the Messiah had arrived.  Today, the organization freely judges all men, women and children on the basis of decrees established by a spiritual adulteress – the Harlot of Rev 13:11; 17:3,4. 
Without hesitation, its unchallenged counterfeit priesthood judges Gods holy people as spiritually “dead”, for trespassing the rules and regulations of an idol, directed by modern day Pharisees. (Rev 13:1,5-8,15)  
Just as God has always done, He “sends” His awakened servants to warn His people of their coming destruction.  (Ezek 3:17-19; Amos 3:7; Rev 11:1-3)   
Neh 9:26 – “But they were disobedient and rebelled against you.
They flung your law behind their backs
and killed your prophets
who warned them
in order to turn them back to you.
They committed terrible blasphemie”s.
God’s people were held in captivity by a powerful, evil “generation” when Jesus arrived; a generation of evil that has spanned the stream of time down to today. (Gen 2:16,17; 3:2-5; Matt 12:33; John 8:44; Matt 3:7-10; 7:15-20) 
Neh 9:36,37 - “But see, we are slaves today, slaves in the land you gave our ancestors so they could eat its fruit and the other good things it produces. 37 Because of our sins, its abundant harvest goes to the kings you have placed over us. They rule over our bodies and our cattle as they please. We are in great distress”
We face a time of even greater distress, as the existence of two Beasts have enslaved and surrounded God’s anointed and their companions, using trickery and all levels of deception. (Prov 2:12-15; Matt 24:20-25; Col 2:8; Rev 13:14;16:13-15; 20:7-9; 2 Thess 2:9-12)
Yet, as promised by the Father, another “festival of the tabernacles”, the “Marriage Feast of the Lamb”, has begun for those who have gained their freedom, and thirst for the living waters from Christ.  (Isa 48:20-22) (Matt 22:1,2,8-10; Rev 22:17)
In Jesus day, the number of Jews who believed in him and obeyed his teachings, were few.  The message was then extended to the nations for all to receive the living Word of God. (Acts 13:46) Today, most of spiritual “Israel” reject the provisions of the marriage feast; likewise, the invitation is extended to all.  (Matt 22:3,9-10)  For those of “Israel” and their companions in the organization, spiritual famine befalls them.  (Zech 14:17,18; Jer 14:2-4; Amos 8:11; Matt 24:7; Rev 6:8)
 
“Hear the word of the Lord, you nations;
    proclaim it in distant coastlands:
‘He who scattered Israel will gather them
    and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.’
11 For the Lord will deliver Jacob
    and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they.
12 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion;
    they will rejoice in the bounty of the Lord—
the grain, the new wine and the olive oil,
    the young of the flocks and herds.
They will be like a well-watered garden,
    and they will sorrow no more.
13 Then young women will dance and be glad,
    young men and old as well.
I will turn their mourning into gladness;
    I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow.
14 I will satisfy the priests with abundance,
    and my people will be filled with my bounty,”
declares the Lord.  Jer 31:10-14
 
 https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/
“Who Are the Stones that Cry out?”
Two Witnesses – “Elijah” and “Moses”
Pearl Doxsey
 

Dear Arauna, i didn't comment this aspect of WT policies about why dfd is part of JW faith. And i wouldn't.
I simply and clearly put on daylight what and how WT Lawyer doing in Court in his/their attempt to defend Image of religious "mountain-like organization", before secular authorities and before  other "sister's religious" organizations, representatives who attended court process.                
I think that your comment have to be a addressed to Mr. David Gnam !  

For goodness sake John Butler, I mean 4Jah2me, there are no elders controlling this forum! 

No, that they would die at Armageddon.

YOUR words are so twisted  - no logic. You do not see anything wrong with your reasoning?  
You are like a person who tells a child NOT to do something because it is bad....it will hurt his brother and himself......you will put them in time-out... for punishment. Then when the child deliberately does it …… you put him in time-out and he screams as if you are murdering him..... He plays the victim and gets attention by playing the victim.  He is so stubborn he does not calm down and think about what he did...…...so you feel ashamed for the discipline and take him out of time-out …..without the child ever learning that  there are consequences to his dangerous behavior and disobedience. (I have seen kids like this many times in my life - uncontrollable, especially in shops - because they have never had proper consequences for bad behavior). Then when these children turn out to be irresponsible as adults ….. because they are adults now they now become innocent? They have rights to break gods laws?  or do they need Jehovah's discipline if they want to serve him.... Or does Jehovah not discipline those he loves? 
Hebrews 12: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; 6  for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.”  7  You need to endure as part of your discipline.God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?" 
Most JWs know there is consequences to a pattern of dangerous spiritual behavior.  They KNOW the consequences but are not prepared to take the time-out.  To humbly attend meetings will get them back on a path to reinstatement but NO their sensitive egos and rights are more important that serving Jehovah. They howl and scream like a stubborn child and publicly call the JWs and GB cruel etc.   Their stubbornness does not bring them favor with Jehovah or teach them respect or obedience to Jehovah's laws.  They apply the laws of Jehovah in the way their own DESIRES dictate.... then they howl in public how bad JWs are.... when we are the ones strictly adhering to the dictates of the very one (Jehovah) they claim to serve.
 

Watch the video Loyally Uphold Jehovah’s Judgments—Shun Unrepentant Wrongdoers, and then answer the following questions: - https://www.jw.org/en/library/jw-meeting-workbook/september-2017-mwb/meeting-schedule-sept18-24/loyal-when-relative-disfellowshipped/
 
Is strict avoidance really necessary? Yes, for several reasons. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-love/disfellowshipped-person/
Synonyms for avoidance
Synonyms: cop-out, dodging, ducking, eluding, elusion, escape, eschewal, eschewing, evasion, out, shaking, shunning - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avoidance
 
You may want to know the outcome of the court case involving a woman who was upset because former acquaintances would not converse with her after she chose to reject the faith, disassociating herself from the congregation.
17 Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals* was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: “Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah’s Witness, we find that the ‘free exercise’ provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm” the earlier judgment of the district court.
18 The court opinion continued: “Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah’s Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, ... - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1988287#h=51
 
Please, dear JW defenders, Do you really need to defend WT lawyer Mr David Gnam twisting, lying on Court?

WT Lawyer Mr. David Gnam: 
 “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual. […] The nature of the relationship, then, of a disfellowshipped person is not completely shunned. The disfellowshipped person is able to come into the congregation meetings, they’re able to attend in the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they’re able to sit wherever they like, they can sing the spiritual songs with the congregation.
Well, this is full of contradiction or, as you would say, this is so "twisted". If dfd person comes to KH, sit there and sing with JW who are not dfd, how this is not "spiritual fellowship"? They siting and singing together "spiritual songs".
And now, one more "twisted reality is this". If such dfd individual and his JW brothers want to go to drink glass of beer after "siting and singing together in KH" would that be OK according to WT Lawyer, according to WT publications, according to you?? Because if they go in pub and siting and drinking beer together that is not against genuine WT Lawyer explanation -  “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual.  Because if they drink a beer or coffee together, what "spiritual component" existing in that?? Perhaps that would be "social component"? But as we all know very well "socializing with dfd or non-JW person" outside of JW "spiritual activity" (that is preaching and Bible study, meetings in KH), that would be FORBIDDEN, sinful BEHAVIOR in JW church,  according to WT publications and according JW elders interpretations.
Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word “shun” or “shunning”. 
Is this "twisting or lying" ?? 
 
 

CC is such a comedian. Worshipping the GB as usual. you will have such a shock when they fall. 
Quote CC. "Now, the answer of Bother Jackson was, the GB are equal to the other members as far as spirituality is concerned, "
Which is quite funny as the GB CALL THEMSELVES the Faithful and discreet Slave. ONLY those 8 men. So that is spiritually exalting themselves above the rest of the Anointed. And then they tell the rest of the Anointed that they must not gather together to study the Bible or have association, or the GB say the other Anointed would  be "working against the Holy Spirit".  Now, what gives the GB the right to 'beat their fellow slaves' ? What gives the GB the right to give orders to other Anointed if they are all spiritually equal ? 
It is complete hypocrisy of course.  

Who did it? Me? Where please? I thing how i didn't mention GJ in this topic. 
And please, i never twisting other people words. If i comment their quotes that is not "twisting" :))

Don't worry, Tom. I know my very short and very simple comment hurts, but the pain will pass.  

Oh it all makes such fun reading. I was bored but you lot have given me a good laugh. Thank you .
Lets start here : Quote @TrueTomHarley When Fauci says people may die if they do not wear a mask, do people take it that he means to kill them himself? When the fire department says you may die if you don’t change the batteries of your smoke detector, does it mean they are going to do the deed themselves.
When John Butler said the GB may be 'removed' did John Butler then mean that HE was going to remove them himself ? No, just as TTH has written above, John Butler was not issuing a threat. It follows the same principle that TTH uses above. But John Butler was disfellowshipped from this forum, so that shows Control by the Elders that run this forum. 
Quote TTH “Those people could be manipulated,” Sanderson said. “They could be controlled. They could be made to do the most wicked things because they were afraid.”
That’s manipulation. That’s control. That’s the consequence—shall we say it?—of not being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses
No, what we can say is that all the JW Circuit Overseers, Elders and Ministerial Servants, that deliberately HID Child Sexual Abuse in the congregations were CONTROLLED by the Leaders of the CCJW. And we can say that the GB HAS CONTROL over the 20 + year Database containing information about hundreds of Paedophiles in the USA CCJW. 
Now that is manipulation. That is Control  And why ?
Quote @Anna  But some opposers will say they were held in slavery by the JW religion because of the fear of death because if they didn't do what was right they were going to die. 
BUT it wasn't a case of doing what was right. It was just doing as they were ordered. "Keep it all secret in the Org so as not  to bring God's name to shame"  What a weak excuse. 
And then we have the SHUNNING, where people lose all of their family and friends if they don't obey orders from the GB. Now that is control and manipulation.
Add to this the THREAT from the GB / Leaders of the CCJW. "If a person is not a BAPTISED  JW they will not be saved through Armageddon" 
And, the further threat from the GB, "If any of the Anointed should meet together for bible study or association that will be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT" 
If you do not see all this as control and manipulation it is because you are being CONTROLLED AND MANIPULATED. 
TTH says "Such opposers are just upset that faith has power—
You have it backwards Tom. It is the GB and the other leaders of the CCJW that are upset, because FAITH has power. The Faith of those that serve God through Christ, not through the GB.  That is why the GB tell the true Anointed not to gather together, because the GB are afraid. Remember Matthew 18 v 20 that where two or more gather in Christ's name, He will be there with them. How your GB are frightened of that happening. 
Tom, if you need to kid yourself that people that leave the CCJW forget about God and Christ, then it is just showing your insecurity. You show that you are worried that the true Anointed remnant may be getting the Holy Spirit that your Org is lacking. 

Oh it all makes such fun reading. I was bored but you lot have given me a good laugh. Thank you .
Lets start here : Quote @TrueTomHarley When Fauci says people may die if they do not wear a mask, do people take it that he means to kill them himself? When the fire department says you may die if you don’t change the batteries of your smoke detector, does it mean they are going to do the deed themselves.
When John Butler said the GB may be 'removed' did John Butler then mean that HE was going to remove them himself ? No, just as TTH has written above, John Butler was not issuing a threat. It follows the same principle that TTH uses above. But John Butler was disfellowshipped from this forum, so that shows Control by the Elders that run this forum. 
Quote TTH “Those people could be manipulated,” Sanderson said. “They could be controlled. They could be made to do the most wicked things because they were afraid.”
That’s manipulation. That’s control. That’s the consequence—shall we say it?—of not being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses
No, what we can say is that all the JW Circuit Overseers, Elders and Ministerial Servants, that deliberately HID Child Sexual Abuse in the congregations were CONTROLLED by the Leaders of the CCJW. And we can say that the GB HAS CONTROL over the 20 + year Database containing information about hundreds of Paedophiles in the USA CCJW. 
Now that is manipulation. That is Control  And why ?
Quote @Anna  But some opposers will say they were held in slavery by the JW religion because of the fear of death because if they didn't do what was right they were going to die. 
BUT it wasn't a case of doing what was right. It was just doing as they were ordered. "Keep it all secret in the Org so as not  to bring God's name to shame"  What a weak excuse. 
And then we have the SHUNNING, where people lose all of their family and friends if they don't obey orders from the GB. Now that is control and manipulation.
Add to this the THREAT from the GB / Leaders of the CCJW. "If a person is not a BAPTISED  JW they will not be saved through Armageddon" 
And, the further threat from the GB, "If any of the Anointed should meet together for bible study or association that will be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT" 
If you do not see all this as control and manipulation it is because you are being CONTROLLED AND MANIPULATED. 
TTH says "Such opposers are just upset that faith has power—
You have it backwards Tom. It is the GB and the other leaders of the CCJW that are upset, because FAITH has power. The Faith of those that serve God through Christ, not through the GB.  That is why the GB tell the true Anointed not to gather together, because the GB are afraid. Remember Matthew 18 v 20 that where two or more gather in Christ's name, He will be there with them. How your GB are frightened of that happening. 
Tom, if you need to kid yourself that people that leave the CCJW forget about God and Christ, then it is just showing your insecurity. You show that you are worried that the true Anointed remnant may be getting the Holy Spirit that your Org is lacking. 

You know, the book of Isaiah made a "joke" about God's people in the past, who preached their own doctrine and rules.  The GB freely add footnotes to God's Word and call it, "spiritual food", which most definitively can be proven through scripture as found outside of the "food" taught by Christ and the apostles. Do you remember how Jesus addressed the addition of rules outside of God's laws, and enforced by the Pharisees? Matt 23 goes in to detail about this.  Go ahead, read it.
To God, a lie cannot be changed to a truth.  It is a "joke" to believe every failed prediction and doctrine taught by the GB/organization, is acceptable to God.  
 
And these also stagger because of wine
    and stagger because of strong drink;
priest and prophet stagger because of strong drink;
    they are confused because of wine.
They stagger because of strong drink;
    they err in vision.
They stagger in the rendering of a decision,
8     for all the tables are full of disgusting vomit, with no place left.
9 To whom will he teach knowledge,
    and to whom will he explain the message?
Those who are weaned from milk,
    those taken from the breast?
10 For it is blah-blah upon blah-blah,
    blah-blah upon blah-blah,
gah-gah upon gah-gah,
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,[h]
a little here, a little there.
[h] - In this context, the Hebrew expressions tsaw-tsaw and qaw-qaw are likely meant to sound like baby talk, but they could mean “command upon command” and “rule upon rule”
For he will speak with stammering lips and another tongue to this people, 12 to whom he has said,
“This is rest; give rest to the weary;
    and this is repose”; yet they were not willing to hear. (Matt 11:28)
13 And to them the word of Yahweh will be
blah-blah upon blah-blah
    blah-blah upon blah-blah
gah-gah upon gah-gah
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,
a little here, a little there,
so that they may go and stumble backward
    and be broken and ensnared and captured."  
Therefore hear the word of Yahweh, men of mockery,
    rulers of these people in Jerusalem:
15 Because you have said,
“We have made a covenant with death,
    and we have made an agreement with Sheol.
The overwhelming flood, when it passes through, will not come to us,
for we have made lies our refuge,
and we have hidden ourselves in falsehood.”  Isa 28:7-15  (the entire chapter is well worth considering)
 

 
 

I agree, Arauna.  Peer pressure is everywhere and in every form.
 
The GB manipulates JWs to obey them "to do their bidding", using threats of losing God's friendship otherwise.  Can you see this?  
Were they inspired when they wrote the above quote?  We know they weren't, since they admit they are not "inspired" by God's Holy Spirit. So then, what was their motivation to threaten their "sheep" with the loss of God's favor for not obeying the GB?  JWs "show" their obedience to the organization through adherence to rules and regulations devised by these men.  These are rules and regulations to support the life of an organization, not the life of an individual.
Jesus and the apostles are our foundation of truth to go by.  The GB are not apostles, nor Moses, and they are not inspired; yet they have successfully gained 8 million followers who believe that without their leadership, no one can be God's friend.  How did the anointed and believers in Christ before the organization was born, develop a relationship with God AND Jesus Christ, without the GB to OBEY?  
This is deceitful manipulation of the worst kind.  It is a fabrication, a myth, and one that robs individuals of spiritual eternal life. John 10:1
"I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is going to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom, 2 preach the word, be ready in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all patience and instruction. 3 For there will be a time when they will not put up with sound teaching, but in accordance with their own desires, they will accumulate for themselves teachers, because they have an insatiable curiosity ("itching ears"), 4 and they will turn away from the hearing of the truth, but will turn to myths. 5 But you, be self-controlled in all things, bear hardship patiently, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."  2 Tim 4:1-5
It is not "sound teaching" but pure manipulation to enforce obedience to men who fail time and time again in their teachings - their doctrines.  Failed predictions, false teachings are rotten fruit.  How much of if will JWs consume before feeling its manipulative effects?  Isa 28:7-13; Matt 7:15-20; Gal 1;6-10
 
 
 
 
 
 

No. Sorry. I just highlighted some words of yours to get your attention. It does sort of look that I am attributing them to Glock, doesn’t it?
Do you mean they feared that if they left, Jehovah’s Witnesses would kill them?
When Fauci says people may die if they do not wear a mask, do people take it that he means to kill them himself? When the fire department says you may die if you don’t change the batteries of your smoke detector, does it mean they are going to do the deed themselves.
Of course not on all three. The game is too stupid to play. Such opposers are just upset that faith has power—they wish it were gutted. Of course, the Witnesses say that departing from Jehovah’s organized way exposes one to eventual death. A very good tell that such might be true is that whenever ones do it, in no time at all they come to think the Name itself is a hill of beans, and that it hardly matters if it is used or not.
 
 

How can one be so obtuse as Srecko? He fusses on and on about the GB’s counsel, as seen through the appreciative eyes of Glock. “It’s just good sound human advice,” he says. “What’s God got to do with it?”
He misses the point most powerful so as to focus on the petty. Tell Jehovah’s people to obey the secular authorities, and they will. Tell ones of the greater world to obey, and they won’t—as a group, I mean—obviously there will be a Bell curve, but it is where that Bell curve falls that determines success of failure.
Here is a post from CNBC entitled, “Salesforce’s Marc Benioff: Face masks can end the U.S. coronavirus crisis within weeks.”
Within, Benioff says: “If everyone in the United States wore a mask for 3 weeks — just 3 weeks — we would not have anymore coronavirus because there would be no more spread, but people do not want to wear masks.”
One would think that Srecko would be cheerleading for Jehovah’s Witnesses. One would think he would be urging all to come under their umbrella—for there is to be found the end of Covid-19 within three weeks. “People do not want to wear masks,” Benioff says. Witnesses do not want to wear them, either, but they are ready to 
It is as though it is a dirty word. Consistently Srecko uses it this way—he and all his cohorts raging on about the ‘control’ and ‘manipulation’ of the GB. In this case, such obedience, which JWs by and large will render, and huge portions of his people will not, will serve to rescue the earth from the pandemic.
In fact, the very position of the Governing Body makes clear that they do not attempt to control people. They set an example—and people will take note of their example because they are highly regarded—but they make clear that each family head is responsible for the course his own family. As states open up—they are all over the board on this, just as they are all over the board on CSA laws—“obedience to secular authority” translates differently to different places—some localities require masks and some don’t—and there are further variances as to the circumstances that masks ought be worn. 
Suffice it to say that, if governments universally mandated masks in public, Witnesses would comply. Vast swaths of the overall world would not. It may be human advice, but Witnesses will comply because of the Bible requirement to be obedient to secular authority. At least some of the CultExpert’s followers will use their #FreedomOfMind to tell the government where it can go with it’s regulations.
That is why the GB must be credited—for presiding over a culture in which people will obey laws of Caesar, providing only that Caesar does not over reach into matters of God. And on mandating masks for a limited period, he does not.