Patiently waiting for Truth

Don't know who has had the midweek meeting yet. But the CBS this week is chapter 120 of Jesus - The Way, The Truth, The Life. The comments showed that so many were taking to heart that all of Jesus' disciples are the branches, and all should bear fruit, and this fruit is especially shown by following the commandments, and the greatest of these commandments is "love one another." Everyone was perfectly in sync with how this can and should apply to themselves.
To me, this is part of the great progress we have made in applying the lessons from Jesus' teachings to everyone. And then, at the last paragraph, a very knowledgeable older brother, makes a long comment that showed how an older WT said that bearing much fruit can apply to the effort in the ministry, not the success rate of making disciples. That was OK, I guess, but then he added that another older WT from 2002 says 'but of course the branches represent only the 144,000.'
It made me wonder whether some of that enthusiasm the whole congregation seemed to share in those previous answers might have been dampened just a bit by this idea that it doesn't really apply to most of us after all.
Earlier in the meeting, of course, there was the Covid19 announcement that implied the GB were in no hurry to open things back up. (There is a separate rumor that the current plan includes extending Zoom*style meetings all the way into 2022 in many countries, and seeing whether this might even be a preferable way to go forward in some countries.) During that part, the idea was repeated a couple of times that the GB ["slave"] had given instructions to be obeyed even though they didn't make sense from a human perspective at the time. The chairman commented after the video that instructions about Covid were the equivalent of spiritual food because it's about being cautious and saving lives, and that the video had included a couple of lessons from Proverbs and a lesson about following the secular "superior authorities" too, based on Romans 13. I don't see anything wrong the instructions, but it made me think about the fine line between spiritual food and just good advice, and how closely this "spiritual" admonishment was the exact same thing as the "secular" advice we are simultaneously getting from governmental agencies.
In a kind of "worst case" scenario, I wondered if a brother in Chile might have read a directive from the WTS that said they needed to put up the national flag of Chile on the KH property because of Romans 13, and then thanked the GB for the "spiritual food."

I am not sure, but do you mean that God communicates with us through the GB? If you do, then I do not agree. I do not think the GB are like Moses, or any prophet who Jehovah used in the past to communicate with his people the Israelites. Jesus did away with all that, he is the only high priest, and we have the holy spirit to help us. This goes for both the annointed and the great crowd. Not much difference in my opinion. Now do I agree there has to be organizational leadership, yes. I also think there has to be someone who makes sure the Bible is followed and upheld. So the GB calling themselves "guardians of the doctrine" as per Br. Jackson is ok too. Also the "spiritual feeding" is understandable as well, as long as it's not made up food and is always based on the Bible. But as for communication, well doesn't Jehovah communicate with us through his written word?  I know whenever this is discussed "Bible publications" are brought up, which is also ok, but those publications are not rocket science. You could write them. Would it then mean that God was communicating through you? Not unless you wrote something which was an interpretation of a scripture. And we know  what happens with that, some were wrongly interpreted. That's hardly Jehovah passing on information. 
Sorry if this sounds like a rant. I finally convinced my hubby that the GB are like the rest of us, except somebody has to take the lead....and the great thing is actually, GB agree with me 😁

I hear that he foreclosed on his mother in the dead of winter and the poor woman would have froze to death for sure, but the wolves ate her first.
I am. That’s how I know.

Like the GB, maybe?  Every scripture that you gave us to support the traits of narcissism, can be directed to them.  Perhaps majority of the elder body are narcissists also?

And your point? I merely stated that we can do much more to help the children out there when we apply better solutions, as even prompted by those who fight child abuse the correct way.
No SM, what you said was  :-
For someone who is this keen on mentioning CSA time and time again,
Hence my comment about my last SIX topics.  Don't sidetrack on what you've actually accused me of. I mention CSA when there is a need to mention it. 
I think Space Merchant and others are in for a big shock within the next twelve months. I think things would have progressed quicker but the virus I presume has quietened things down in the USA proceedings against the GB and CCJW,  or is it just that i have missed something ? 
The IICSA are still working on the investigation here in the UK. 
If charitable status is taken away from the CCJW in Australia and the UK they will find life a bit difficult, and if they are asked to open up all of their accounts for inspection by the Authorities then i think many more questions would be asked. 
As for SM, he seems to think that the hundreds of CCJW CSA victims are telling lies or just making up stories. The GB and their 'soldiers/police force' have done a good job of hiding paedophiles in the CCJW and a good job of convincing many people that it does not exist. 
Of course the Devil does a similar job of convincing people that he does not exist too. 

Yes, rather bossy isn't he  

I believe that when a person reads Furuli carefully they will see evidence for such traits of narcissism. And as long as I am saying this, I think that what came through in the subtext of his books also appealed to persons having similar traits. The persons who had been Furuli's most vocal defenders in the past, like a person named "scholar JW" is an example who has shown the same extreme indifference to the "counsel of evidence." Any correction provided by evidence was always thrown back as if the reputation of the sources of correction needed to be trashed and dishonored for daring to correct them. Examples of this type of reaction to counsel and evidence abound in discussion forums, too. And any and all of us can fall into that trap of pride: (But keep an eye on yourself, for fear you too may be tempted.)
Furuli, for example, didn't like the fact that all the hundreds of Neo-Babylonian scholars, 100 percent of them, told him that he was wrong to believe that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE. So he focused on one piece of evidence that clearly shows the 607 date is wrong. And what does he resort to? He trashed the scholars, he trashed the museum curators. He accused them of fraud, even accused unspecified persons of sanding down evidence of the original cuneiform and replacing it with markings that makes it fit their own scheme. (He doesn't bother to point out that this is only one of thousands of pieces of evidence that supports a 587/6 BCE date and that there is still absolutely zero evidence going against that accepted date, Biblical or secular.)
Now moving forward to the present, there is evidence that Furuli was being told he was wrong about "higher education" and that he was wrong to want to stick with "Fred Franz" interpretations when the rest of the GB had already moved on from that. He would have seen the example of "A. Smith" that Brother Splane spoke about at the 2014 Annual Meeting as "counsel" against his own view that hadn't changed. He clearly compared himself to Fred Franz, and wanted to continue that role. If he was a narcissist, then he would have seen the need to trash and dishonor these counselors. And he did! He needed to project back onto them, some of the same traits that he should be able to see in himself, but can't.
Especially in the case where he knows he is about to be "proven" wrong to the worldwide congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, he would be forced to trash those who had decided he was wrong. Narcissists simply cannot accept counsel or evidence that says they are wrong.
I could be wrong, but that's how I currently see it.

The guy doesn’t even know how to go apostate properly. You can’t sing “The Kids are Alright” as you’re doing it. He could have at least dug pits of bitumen for elders to fall in when they came calling.
Where is that article about there being Jehovah’s world and Satan’s world, from which arose the cute saying that you can’t sit on the fence because Satan owns the fence. Does that not precede the GB so presumably he has no issue with it? So, what? Does he think that—yes, Satan my be misleading the entire inhabited world, but not at the university—they are far too smart for him there.
After the wheel is invented, nobody says it was invented wrong unless they are prepared to invent another one. It may be that all the “improvements” I have in mind, were they ever adopted, would blow everything to Kingdom come. You get your head around the way things are, unless you see a parallel bunch doing everything just so, minus the things he gripes about. Since there is none, it is only modest to conclude maybe that is part of the package—maybe the package is the only way it can be. Maybe if his “reforms” were adopted of a kinder gentler package, the wolves would thank him—“All the better to eat the sheep, my dear,” perhaps they would say.
 
 

That was what I wondered too. Assuming he sent the book to the GB first, then he must want the GB to reform. If that's the case, and it would be the most logical assumption, then why publish it for everyone else to read?
And if he sent it to the GB first, and didn't get a response, then is publishing it a tantrum, for being ignored? 

This sound good for introducing new approach and view about "higher education" issue. WT publications and public lessons now should include advice how "higher education" is recommend only for adult JW members in their 50s.  :))

If you say, as Rolf does, that the GB has lost their way, are you not implying that you know the way? Otherwise, how do you know that they have lost it? Maybe it just turned out a little more convoluted than you had anticipated.
It seems a very bold claim to make. Everyone has a wish list. I do. On some of the items, I think they are knocking it out of the park. On some other items, I say “I wish they wouldn’t keep doing....”
But never in 1000 years would I frame it as, “the GB has lost its way.” I would confine myself to saying “I didn’t get mine.”
Hopefully for Rolf, he will one day read an article about how “certain well-meaning, but indiscreet, brothers who have....” and nothing further.

Rolf should have come here to sow his oats. Why didn’t he? I can think of at least one that he would have gotten on with just fine—there are others, too, I am sure—and indeed, even I would not append laughing emojis to his each and every post like a rat in a Skinner cage.
Instead, he wrote a book. What is wrong with the fellow? He is now hero to people he cannot abide, since his problem is with the divine/human interface and nothing else whereas they, by and large, want to scrap it all. I mean, who is his target audience? The enthusiasm of ex-JWs at his “new scrolls’ is surely tempered by his staying “true to course” in his own eyes. “Maybe his expulsion will cause him to ‘wake up,‘” someone says hopefully. I don’t think so. He seems to have counted the costs beforehand. He is content to revert to the fellowship of “scientists” and the (they must be relatively few) “elders” who will still chum with him. Maybe the latter are here. The next newbie that I assume is Allen but doesn’t really sound like Allen I will give due scrutiny to.
Does he write his book because he is trying to trigger “reform?” From who? From the airy world of academia that the GB pays no attention to other than to observe that the more prestigious the university the greater the contamination? The guy’s got a screw loose. Jettisoning the brotherhood for the sake of getting in good with the scientists and renegade elders? I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and my brothers would find out about it to lend support in a matter of hours. Billy the Kid, nice as he is, would not learn of it until he read my obituary.

This is why a lot of people are skeptical, even former Jehovah's Witnesses are skeptical, mainly about News Corp, who are known to be right-center-bias in the media, but unfortunately, people think those who are not in favor of God and Christa re somehow mainstream religion and dodging by shifting the narrative.
That being said, the article present facts and said facts that are not as confusing can be lined up with ARC. More so, the article, as with all information from Australia pushing this story, more and more are leaning towards ARC rather than News Corp.
As you can also see, the latter collective did not know who the former Jehovah's Witnesses are, let alone what their ordeal was with the police, in addition to that, one of the survivors, they were not able to speak up on his testimony on what needs to be done; so this investigation is based off of an accusation from anonymous folk, but like I said, the focus is more focused on ARC, as is with secondary information pertaining to the ReDress Scheme.
So far, some of the News Corp claims, some of which Srecko addressed unknowingly, and then later back tracking and stating he does not care about News Corp and or cited them when he did, have been proven to be inaccurate. One of the reasons why this comment still stands from what was said:
Other than that, there is the whole left vs right video of someone trying to convict a person who has dealt with the far-left/right for several years (granted the right and the far-right are not even friends within the right-wing spectrum)..... Which to me, appears to be a joke. Moreover, you have those who speak of CSA, but refuse to partake in aiding and or encouraging information that can help children. If you go back to the Children Fork there, you can see my point and a little bit of Rook's point is 100% correct, for people are not even going about taking action and it is has been what? 2 years now? In that span of time, I have been continuing to help current and new children, but for these guys, they spend more time talking about Watchtower and haven't done much.
That being said, I encourage you to look at the facts which are true, do not may as much attention to News Corp because people are believing a lot of information that is amissed, i.e. the comment regarding the Catholic Church News Corp made, when ARC informed us the truth.

With further research, there is about 762 church congregations of the Jehovah’s Witness faith alone in Australia. We also already know there is about 68,000 (68k) adherents in the area as well. Regarding populace and the change of demographics, within a long span of time, they have sold off some of their churches, as is with buying, expanding and or mitigating, etc. The facts of course are minor, at this time, in addition, some of their churches have been used for decades and as with anyone they took the approach deem necessary. The source itself even points out to an explanation of this action.
Now as for the additional info.
There is also information on The Redress Scheme process: https://www.nationalredress.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2018-06/FACTSHEET_Who can apply_1.pdf
The article has been brought up again with additional information:
This time it refers to the faith in question, Jehovah’s Witnesses, does not have an Institutional Settings, that the voluntary National Redress Scheme is designed to cover. It continues to state that, which was already pointed out, The Ministry for Families and Social Services has been advised that Jehovah’s Witnesses will not join the Scheme, which was mentioned prior. It states that the Jehovah’s Witnesses understand that, to date, there have been less than 10 applicants to The Redress Scheme who have referred to the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses, in addition to that, Jehovah’s Witnesses have responded and it is stated by them that they will continue to respond directly to individual claims for redress in a caring, fair, and principled manner, taking into consideration the unique circumstances of each claim, as is with the whole provisions of bringing forth comfort and the like, assistance, etc.
The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse acknowledged that the faith in question, Jehovah’s Witnesses, do not have the institutional settings in many faith-based institutions. (which also brings New Corp into question when they were called for inaccuracies) : 
The position of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and or the organization itself (granted the article is focused on Australia) is that, as even pointed out by ARC, they abhor child sex abuse and that it will not protect any perpetrator and the key submissions made on behalf of the Watchtower itself was familial child sexual abuse, which is not (also not to be confused with) institutional sex abuse (again ARC gives us this evidence). 
Again because ARC gives us the evidence in this regard, it is noted that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have not sponsored any programs or activities that separate children from their parents at any time, they do not operate boarding schools or Sunday schools; they do not have youth groups, choirs or sponsor any programs for children; neither do they run orphanages, day-care centres, hospitals nor youth centres. Jehovah’s Witnesses simply do not have the institutional settings that result in children being taken into their care, custody, supervision, control or authority.

And your point? I merely stated that we can do much more to help the children out there when we apply better solutions, as even prompted by those who fight child abuse the correct way.
 
Because regarding serious issues, you are applying things that some can point out as untrue. To assume that people in or out of the faith community in question are oblivious and an untrue statement.
And yet ARC is aware after further analyzes, granted they are not among the faith community. This statement of yours just shows you are going about this by means of emotions rather than the truth itself.
You laugh? I pointed out 8 examples in the past, need I cite more and or quote said information?
Each pastor or elder of a faith are different, especially their level of expertise and experience. To each area, to each language, they differ, some of them, good, some of them, bad, etc. Just because you were formerly a Jehovah's Witness, does not mean you some how miraculously know every single one of them granted they originally shared the same faith as you. That is, indeed an absurd statement, granted facts I posted here in the past, one of them to which you made a remark to.
The thing is with them, there are some truths in this, no one is questioning that, however, there are people out there, that tend to go beyond what is true and muddle the information in a negative way - all groups suffer from this, mainly from disgruntled former members.
No has not, hence as to WHY I made that statement.
You are confusing Anti-JWs with ExJWs. Anti-JWs do not like Jehovah's Witnesses, nor do they like former Jehovah's Witnesses. They do focus on both sides, however, they merely point out the facts in the matter, several examples I've pointed out in the past, the first one was noted back in 2017, another was related to the information Witness pointed out in regards to Pearl's content.
According to the facts, regarding CSA, there has been rumors created, in turn mixes in with factual information concerning child abuse. So yes, they are in the right to make that statement.
That being said, ARC gave us he information, but there are former JWs who twist this information, only for other ExJWs or even Anti-JWs to come into the picture to state otherwise, as with onlookers into the situation.
All children matter, regardless of the faith and or institution, be it you are former and or current. Every child deserves the help needed, and it is up to those who are going about things the correct way instead of a mindless trek, to do that.
Hence, my experience concerning CSA. I care not of any institution, or do I isolate my interest into one specific group, my focus, concerning CSA is everywhere, granted the issue is indeed a critical one. That is why in my statement concerning helping children, I made this point a strong one, even with biblical backing.
That being said, thanks to why my blood, and sweat has done, children are applying what I have taught them, to help anyone, anywhere, and in regards to child abuse, they are capable of reaching one to teach one, so in turn they do the same thing, likewise to Jesus giving instruction regarding the commission to make disciples. We can teach the children, but the thing is, can you contribute?
Reasons why I asked you that question in the other thread of what is the greatest protection for a child is because you are a parent, that is something you should know.
So in turn, my interest is child abuse in general, not isolated to a single institution, as you have your eyes set., for I take it seriously due to me teaching CSA prevention.
But here is the problem, CSA cannot be cleansed out 100%. This is indeed a very sad reality, what we can do is teach and prevent instances where we can, if you cannot do it alone, the one whom you teach, can partake in this action.
That being said, to protect children is not merely a viewpoint of the world, it comes from the Bible too, I pointed that out a multitude of times, mainly on my thread about CSA.
As pointed out, you really this adamant of cleansing the faith of the Jehovah's Witnesses? Then apply the solutions. If the Swahili JW can do it, what is stopping you? If others, who are not even JWs can do it? What is stopping you?
That said, fighting Child Abuse the wrong way only causes more and more pedophiles to run rampant in any institution of their choosing. Granted you mentioned Anti-JW, one has pointed out, to which I cited a while ago on this forum, is ExJWs are letting pedophiles know to come to the Jehovah's Witnesses, to exploit them in order to gain access to children.
The solutions in question is in regards to helping children, all of which can be found in God's Word in terms of teaching them, protecting them, making sure they are aware of each step they take, likewise, with what you,a s a parent, as a guardian, entrusted on to them, they can teach others, and should they bare children, they teach them as well.
That being said, God and his Christ pointed this out in the Word, perhaps apply it, in doing so, you can be an obstacle between a child falling victim.
Everything, is of God's Word, as I addressed in the past. Just so you know, there are those who fought CSA the wrong way, they applied this too, and they themselves have helped children and even adults become fighters in CSA, you should do the same:
 

Norwegian newspaper confirms Furuli disfellowshipped
Furuli has been disfellowshipped from Jehovah's Witnesses
I can confirm that I am now excluded, says Rolf Furuli, who for nearly 60 years has been a key figure in Jehovah's Witnesses nationally and internationally.
Furuli says he takes the exclusion with great calm. Usually, such an exclusion will be terribly heavy. Your entire network is broken and friends will no longer talk to you. But for me it is not so. I have a network all over the world of scientists and elders who see the problems in the organization. These I want to keep in touch with, says Furuli.
Vårt Land has been in contact with Jehovah"s witnesses spokesperson in Scandinavia, Dag Erik Kristoffersen. He says he has no information about a possible exclusion of Furuli, and that he is therefore unable to comment on the case at this time. But Cato Pretorius of the Torstrand congregation in Larvik, Furuli's local congregation, confirms the exclusion. Since this is publicly known, we can confirm that he is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, he writes in an SMS to Vårt Land.

@Srecko Sostar   This comment you have written about the 'Last days' and 'Holy spirit'  is a very good comment and well thought out....   Also this that you've written is so funny. 
On other hand GB Stephen Lett claims how we today living in Last days ("the final part of last days", "the final part of final part of the last days")))))). - short video of his famous statement     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrges_TxOzQ
Then we have Billy the Kid aka CC saying :-
"Therefore, how can any present witness take the opinion of a person that never understood scripture, give an honest assessment about the Watchtower GB. That's just laughable."
Truth is, anybody with information about the GB can give an honest assessment about them. Each person gives their own honesty. The problem there is, JWs are too frightened to look at honest assessments of their GB. They just follow like sheep, but behind a wicked drunken shepherd. The GB are drunk on their own power and authority over the CCJW and the Watchtower Society. However it isn't laughable to people that truly love God and Christ because we can see the damage being done by the GB. The GB have ruined and continue to ruin the CCJW and the GB continue to bring God's 'name' to shame. False prophecy and misuse of scripture continue to spew out of the mouths of the GB. 
And now it seems they've disfellowshipped one of their best workers too. 
 
 

Well if she is an EX-JW and is speaking from her personal experiences, then she once wasn't of 'mainstream Christianity'.
Everyone on this Earth will have critics, so why should she be any different. As for the hype about insight, even the CCJW / JW Org  pretended to have insight. (one example : the last part of the last day 'prophecy' in 1967 Watchtower). 
( I cannot understand how anyone can ignore these false prophecies. People just don't seem to see that they were given as prophecy at the time they were spoken or written. ) 
Hence I've mentioned balance.  
She seems concerned with the CSA within the CCJW and any JW that is not concerned about it needs to rethink their heart condition. (It's no good comparing it to the outside world of which you are no part of. You need to compare it to God's righteous standards). 

Apples and oranges are blending together, causing a shakeup in the Watchtower,  It all relates to th same underlying problem.   
Come now.  When you face court battle after court battle over doctrine you had a share in instituting  which shields pedophiles, wouldn't you consider this as "trouble"?  
 
From a "human standpoint" I believe Christ's teachings as well as the apostles, were very sound.  I agree with you that the GB are not concerned with anything being sound from a human standpoint.  
Truth is very sound.  
Lies cause upheaval.
But you are to proclaim things consistent with sound teaching.  Titus 2:1
If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,  they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Tim 6:3-5
For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear what they want to hear. 4 They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths. 
According to your words, this time is here.  
Anna, I know you believe she is  "some crazy lady", but my intention was for anyone who would like to know more about the identities of Revelation's Beasts, could go to her blog.  I am fully aware that you are not the only reader here.   
 
 

Main question, More Important Question is: Do You and Does JW members ACCEPT This Declaration ? 
:)))

Gerrit Losch:  "I do not direct and have never directed..."
 
Wikipedia:  Following a leadership dispute in the Bible Student movement, the Watch Tower Society remained associated with the branch of the movement that became known as Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1955, the corporation was renamed Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. In 1976, all activities of the Watch Tower Society were brought under the supervision of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
In 1976, direction of the Watch Tower Society and of the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide came under the control of the Governing Body, reducing the power of the society's president. The society has described the change as "one of the most significant organizational readjustments in the modern-day history of Jehovah's Witnesses."
Following the death of Knorr in 1977, subsequent presidents of the Watch Tower Society have been Frederick W. Franz (June 1977 – December 1992); Milton G. Henschel (December 1992 – October 2000), Don A. Adams (October 2000 – 2014) and Robert Ciranko (incumbent). Adams and Ciranko are considered "helpers" to the Governing Body, which retains authority over the corporations.
 "Keep Holding Men of That Sort Dear".  The Watchtower. 15 October 2015. p. 3. The Governing Body members make the final decisions, but the helpers implement the committee's direction and carry out whatever assignments they are given. The helpers accompany Governing Body members to special and international conventions. They may also be assigned to visit branch offices as headquarters representatives. ... Helpers to Governing Body Committees ... Publishing Committee—Don Adams ... Writing Committee—Robert Ciranko...
 
Sounds like Mr. Losch is just plain lying.  
 
 
 
 

"...I am however a member of the Governing Body of the WTBTS, perhaps the most senior of the eight GB members. In fact myself and my buddies channel the spirit of Christ Jesus and we take direction directly from him on all doctrinal and organisational matters, who in turn takes direction from Jehovah himself! You see Your Honour, WE are the faithful and discreet slave as described in The Bible! Yeah, check US out! But to answer your question, I have nothing to do with Watchtower whatsoever!! Next question?!"

Yes the Watchtower has been put on notice if they dont sign up by June deadline to the Australian Scheme they will loose they charity status, yesterday The project news tv channel reported the watchtower had declared they will be no joining the scheme because they do not have in place any institutions with in the organization to deal with this in other words Jehovah hasn't had the time to put anything in place for the victims because he is either too busy selling KHs and providing spiritual food. 😆😆😆

"Apostates" and "Dissidents" or what ever other name-etiquette, people would give people that are on different/opposite side of them, live in every cell of society. In family, in work place, in village and town ...etc. To "ban" all that, would mean that you want to put yourself in position above everything and everyone, even God. If you belong to Christian faith (for example, JW member), one Bible verse act against your request. That is: ... so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Imagine God who would ban sun and rain towards apostates :)))) 
... or towards apostates you labeled as apostate by your measures.

That would be a bit difficult and unrealistic since they don't usually walk around with a big "I'm an apostate" label on their forehead!