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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Space Merchant in "SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"   
    I am not going to jump on this band wagon. I'm in UK and cannot see some news articles and obviously not all news items are true anyway.
    Now this is where we need Truthers.  I wonder if @Space Merchant will investigate this as a Truther ? Or if @JW Insider will investigate it as an 'insider' ?
    Contrary to 'popular opinion' I do not want to see the CCJW 'go down' completely. What I want to see is honesty and mercy and justice for CSA victims, and to see the Org 'made clean'. 
    Thank you @Witness for this information, and thank you JJJ for info' about New Zealand. Please keep us updated. I will obviously do my own research but as I've mentioned some news articles are being blocked for UK. 
    Just another personal request. I cannot hear videos properly (awaiting new hearing aids from USA ) so any written information would be appreciated. 
  2. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Arauna in "SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"   
    I am not going to jump on this band wagon. I'm in UK and cannot see some news articles and obviously not all news items are true anyway.
    Now this is where we need Truthers.  I wonder if @Space Merchant will investigate this as a Truther ? Or if @JW Insider will investigate it as an 'insider' ?
    Contrary to 'popular opinion' I do not want to see the CCJW 'go down' completely. What I want to see is honesty and mercy and justice for CSA victims, and to see the Org 'made clean'. 
    Thank you @Witness for this information, and thank you JJJ for info' about New Zealand. Please keep us updated. I will obviously do my own research but as I've mentioned some news articles are being blocked for UK. 
    Just another personal request. I cannot hear videos properly (awaiting new hearing aids from USA ) so any written information would be appreciated. 
  3. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"   
    That’s actually a very sobering thought.   It truly is a “war” between truth and lies.  
    Jesus rides on the side of God’s Truth (Rev 19:11), not “truth” as defined by men who lean on a few valid and truthful doctrines, but spout off a plethora of false ones.  (Rev 19:19)
    Yet, it is only God’s truth and righteousness, that will win out in the end.  (Rev 19:20,21)
    “Look, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me to repay each person according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
    14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes,  so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."  Rev 22:12-15
     
     
  4. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Nathaniel Compton in Furuli's new book: Is any of it right? Useful? Like Franz?   
    @Arauna " Since we are Bible students and have a PERSONAL relationship with Jehovah and keep improving our  BIBLE  knowledge, "
    Yes and we can do this without being a JW. You said it is a personal relationship, and it is not an 'organisational' one. 
    Quote Arauna.  "I look at the bible and see some kind of central body in the first century. "
    Whereas I look at the Bible and see that Jesus personally guided the Apostle Paul to write the letters to the Congregations. Paul didn't even bother to visit the 'central body' for the first three years of his ministry. Paul definitely had a very personal relationship with God through Christ. It did not involve going through anyone else. 
    Quote Arauna "I do not need any person to tell me"
    Ah but you do have people telling you. You have your GB through the Writing Dept, and through your Elders. They tell you what they want you to believe. 
    Quote Arauna "I actually  feel sorry for the professor Feruli- to have served jehovah so long and faithfully and now in old age succumb to the plague of mankind....
    I actually feel sorry for anyone that cannot see the faults in the GB and the CCJW.  It's not about deliberately looking for faults, but it is about knowing what you are part of, and then using your Christian conscience to guide you as to whether it is right to remain part of it. 
  5. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Nathaniel Compton in Furuli's new book: Is any of it right? Useful? Like Franz?   
    This full situation always reminds me of this:
    (Mark 9:38-40) 38 John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us.
    I think this shows that a person does not have to be a JW to serve God through Christ. 
    As for the GB being likened to the Sanhedrin, wasn't it them that had Jesus put to death? So yes i can see a similarity. 
    And as for the 1st Century 'group of men in Jerusalem' that made decisions, weren't they inspired by God's Holy Spirit ?  Whereas this GB admits to not being so. 
    And wasn't it the Apostle Paul that wrote to the congregations, not those men in Jerusalem ?
     And wasn't the Apostle Paul chosen and directed by Jesus Christ personally ? And wasn't Paul inspired of God's Holy Spirit. 
    And didn't those men of the 1st Century PROVE that they were inspired by their WORKS. 
    And Now :- The Watchtower dated (top right corner) March 2020.  Study articles May 4- 31 2020
    Page 6 paragraph 16. from part way down, reads. (I have paper copy supplied by an elder)
    " Jesus has appointed a small group of anointed men to take the lead in organising the work that he wants done today. Jesus referred to this group of men as 'the faithful and discreet slave' and they take seriously their responsibility to feed and protect you spiritually. "
    What hogwash ! Complete lies or deliberate deceit.
    Firstly the GB say they are not inspired, so how would they have been 'appointed' ?
     ALL anointed remnant are anointed of God's Holy spirit hence they know they are anointed. 
    All of those of the Anointed remnant were seen as being the F&DS at one time, so when did Jesus suddenly decide to change this ? 
    So how was / is this special appointing done ? 
    Secondly. Jesus did not refer to these men as the F&DS 
    Jesus asked a question ???? He did not make a  statement, and he certainly didn't say who they were.  
    But many JW's just want their ears tickled, and many JWs are brainwashed enough to just accept everything written in the Watchtower. 
     
  6. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in "SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"   
    Than, what you think about idea to ask directly WT Australasia or GB? Perhaps you as JW member have good chance to receive information about whole situation. :))
  7. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Matthew9969 in John 17:3 ‘know thee the only true God’   
    Unfortunately, this is how Jehovah's Witnesses act, even though the gentleman insist he is not a jw, this type of behavior speaks otherwise. At least he didn't totally change the subject, which is another tactic they use when their understanding of a subject is confusing to them.
  8. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Space Merchant in 2 Corinthians 5:20 Ambassadors for Christ, the Anointed?   
    Strong's Concordance huper: over, beyond, fig. on behalf of, for the sake of, concerning Original Word: ὑπέρ
    Part of Speech: Preposition
    Transliteration: huper
    Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-er')
    Definition: over, beyond, on behalf of, for the sake of, concerning
    Usage: gen: in behalf of; acc: above.
    I don't see the word substituting there.  And :-
    Ephesians 6 v 20 
    New International Version
    for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

    New Living Translation
    I am in chains now, still preaching this message as God’s ambassador. So pray that I will keep on speaking boldly for him, as I should.

    English Standard Version
    for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.

    Berean Study Bible
    for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may proclaim it fearlessly, as I should.

    Berean Literal Bible
    for which I am an ambassador in a chain, that in it I may be bold, as it behooves me to speak.

    New American Standard Bible
    for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
    I don't want to listing them all but you can if you want to. Still do not see the word 'Substituting' here. 
    The 2 Corinthians 5 v 20 scripture in the Interlinear. 
     
     

  9. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"   
    When these stories emerge, why do JWs continue to tolerate an organization that closes its eyes to its own sins, while exalting itself above all other organizations in the world?   What keeps JWs from walking away?  Fear?  Obligation to men?  Do they think that such filth could ever be connected to God and Jesus?  If we know God does not condone such atrocities, why would we? Why would we allow our heart to be influenced by men who create the atrocities by their rules and doctrine?  
    Adam and Eve committed one grave sin against God.  They rejected His warning, and they lost their chance of living eternally under God’s care.  They turned away from God, to listen to the father of the lie.  How many sins has the organization committed over and over again? Every sin is a rejection of God’s decrees through Christ.  If we are to ever become sinless, should we remain in an atmosphere where sin thrives? Eph 2:1-3
    God does not change, but men do, who easily dismiss their sins without apology, without repentance.  They make humorous excuses instead.  They believe they can rewrite the meaning of Christ’s teachings.  They can convince millions that Jesus is the “head” of corruption, of an organization in the realm of Satan, the enemy of Jesus Christ.
    For those who continue to support this organization of sin and lies, what is wrong with their hearts?
    JWs are a stubborn people, afraid to move from their false comfort of “peace and security”, and stand for decency and righteousness.  1 Thess 5:1-3; Rev 18:4-8
     
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/08/whats-wrong-with-peace-and-security.html
     
     
     
  10. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in John 17:3 ‘know thee the only true God’   
    Now you see why I am strict and critical when it comes to misconceptions and Bible Strong's - being caught off guard it can easily be used against you when someone of the latter viewpoint is attempting to prove Jesus is God (Yahweh/Jehovah).
    Jesus.Deserter is an example of a mainstream Christian affiliated with the belief the The Trinity and as pointed out in the thread you started, you can see how vastly the view differs. Lucky for you he is a low level Trinitarian, for he targets JWs, not just to lure them out, but anyone who does not believe Jesus to be God.
    To the common Trinitarian, if you believe Jesus is not God, you are against the truth of the Scriptures, and you are deem someone who is in denial of Jesus' Deity and or that of him being God - therefore, destined for eternal hellfire torment, as they believe also.
    Trinitarians view us, as well as Jehovah's Witnesses, as false and or incorrect and deem us as prophets of falsehood, moreover, their influenced is spread to those who, the majority to produce falsehood, misinformation and twisting information. It is nothing to do with teachings of anything else, but rather, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit alone (The very core of Christianity itself, as is with anything that predates Christianity), hence this "war" I have been talking about is the whole Non-Trinitarian vs. Trinitarian situation we've been at since like the 4th century, and even in present day it is far more critical and serious due to the fact that mainstream Christianity is on a decline due to Christian minorities and Islam.
    That being said, regardless if you are among Jehovah's Witnesses or not, granted JWs themselves are Non-Trinitarian as is among Restorationism (something Masons and Trinitarians often go after), you will still be branded as such, they even often brand Muslims as JWs outside of conversation or debate of the Crucifixion, since you are in the UK, this is often the tactic used in Speaker's Corner there.
    Anyone who is not up there in Bible knowledge, they also mock by saying "running away", unlike the notion of proving claims granted they deem the latter as cowardly.
    That being said, he used a Greek word and Strong's in his response to you, for there is good reason he skipped over me. In this case, you legitimately have a chance to prove the Trinitarian wrong here.
    @Srecko Sostar That will not do because as I told 4Jah2me, Trinitarian can easily use those verses against you. This is why you need to utilize marginal references, as I said elsewhere, even Strong's can help you here, mainly in regards to John 1:1.
    To the both of you, to combat The Trinity Doctrine as Non-Trinitarians, you really need to build up that muscle, that muscle being Scripture.
    Like I said, in this situation you are dealing with Trinitarianism now. Therefore Bible verses/passages you have to know what connects to it, the references, this also goes for Hebrew and Greek Strong's as well and context because John 14:28 can easily be spun around to their favor if you do not go about things with discernment and or unprepared. That being said, the narrative here, on his part is the ideology, the view of this verse being seen as Jesus having 2 natures that correlates with the view of Godhood.
    Granted he is err, his view is an obvious one (The Creed he quoted).
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"   
    "A News Corp investigation into the global Christian sect Jehovah's Witnesses has revealed they have allegedly pushed cash offshore to avoid paying compensation to Australian child sex abuse victims."
     
    https://www.news.com.au/national/special-investigation-into-jehovahs-witnesses/video/a334969a3052132c8cab3c94ccc4925e
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in John 17:3 ‘know thee the only true God’   
    John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.'"
    John 2:19,21 "Jesus answered and said unto them Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" 21 "But he spake of the temple of his body"
    Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"  
    Romans 8:9-11 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.
    I am not here to support dualism or trialism or whatever is religious theology about trinity and so. I am going to look at text itself and to possibilities they offer. 
    1) when Jesus said  Father is greater than I, we can take in context place and moment. Jesus, as His son, but also as son of his human mother, speaking from position of body and blood, a human on Earth. As perfect human individual in the body, he was also more than mere perfect human. He was only begotten Son, Firstborn of all. As perfect human, similar to Adam, because he represented Adam, he was correctly made statement how his Father is greater. Not only in aspects of his human condition at that moment, but also in regard spiritual position, Father - Son position.
    2) in speaking about Temple i would not use this verse to prove who resurrected who, or who are in position to do such act. In verse is clearly said who have power and ability to raise Temple in the 3 days. Jesus made undoubted claim how HE is individual who will going to do this if somebody destroy Temple (literal or spiritual Temple, it is not matter) If Jesus is not only copy or clone of perfect Adam but much, much more, i not see obstacle to take in possibility how most powerful person in Universe, after Father, is able to made resurrection of human body. Because Jesus was in fact spirit in human body. His life was originated from spiritual place.    
    3) Spirit of God and Spirit of Jesus is interesting terminology. And both are powerful for same task - resurrection. 
     Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”  - John 11
    This two Spirits are so close and connected that it is understandable why Jesus said:
    I and the Father are one, the same. .... Father is in me, and I in the Father. - John 10 ... I am the Life - John 14
     
    Just some verses for further research. I am not stating anything.
     
     
  13. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in 2 Corinthians 5:20 Ambassadors for Christ, the Anointed?   
    @Witness Yes, JWs ( GB / CCJW / Wt / NWT ) do seem to be the only ones using 'substituting'  for Christ. 
    2 Corinthians 5 v 20
     
    New International Version
    We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

    New Living Translation
    So we are Christ’s ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, “Come back to God!”

    English Standard Version
    Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

    Berean Study Bible
    Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God.

    Berean Literal Bible
    Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God is beseeching through us. We implore on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God.

    New American Standard Bible
    Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

    New King James Version
    Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.

    King James Bible
    Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. This is not all of the translations available on Bible Hub. But it does bring in to question the reason for using the word 'substituting' as Witness has pointed out, especially when the GB say only they are the F&DS.  So, are the GB saying they they, those 8 men, are the substitutes for Christ ?  If so is this dishonest ? Or worse. 
  14. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Jesus.defender in John 17:3 ‘know thee the only true God’   
    Wrong. Only those indoctrinated by men or organisations.
    If you had READ the article, which i know as a JW you are not allowed to, Jesus IS referred to as Almighty God.
     
    When did He say this? Oh, WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH where He humbled Himself.
    In John 14:28 Jesus is not speaking about His nature or being (Christ had earlier said in John 10:30, ‘I and the Father are one’), but about His lowly position of incarnation as a man. The Athanasian Creed says that Christ is ‘equal to the Father as touching His Godhood, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood’. Christ was here contrasting His human humiliation, shame, suffering, rejection, opposition by enemies, and soon crucifixion, with the Father’s majesty, glory and worship by the angels in heaven.
    Jesus said, ‘The Father is greater (Greek: meizon) than I’, not ‘The Father is better (Greek: kreitton) than I’. ‘Greater’ refers to the Father’s greater position (in heaven), not to a greater nature. If the word ‘better’ had been used, this would indicate that the Father had a better nature than Jesus.
     
    i) The distinction is made clear in Hebrews 1:4 where ‘better’ (Gk: kreitton) is used to teach Jesus’ superiority over the angels in His nature and position.
    ii) This difference between ‘greater’ and ‘better’ is seen in this example:
    ‘The President of a country is greater (Greek: meizon) in position than his people, but as a human being he is not better (Greek: kreitton) in nature than his people’.
    iii) Jesus in becoming a man, not only took on a lower position than the Father, but also took on a lower position than the angels. ‘But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death’. (Hebrews 2:9)
     
    And yes, WHILST ON EARTH, Jesus had a God in heaven. Would you expect Jesus to be an atheist?
    Wrong. 
    The Holy Spirit is fully God and has personality as He can be blasphemed.
    The Holy Spirit has the three attributes of personality, those being: mind, emotions and will.
    An ‘active force’ does not have personal attributes. Your claim of the Holy Spirit being an active force is disproven if the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit has mind,emotions & will.
    The Holy Spirit intercedes or prays for believers.‘The Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings’. (Romans 8:26). 
    The Holy Spirit hears. ‘Whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.’ (John 16:13)
    The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed.‘he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost’.Mk3:29
    People cannot be blasphemed. We can only be slandered. Only God can be blasphemed.
    The Holy Spirit uses personal pronouns to describe Himself: John 15:26; 16:13;(he):
    ‘The Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabus. . .’ (Acts 13:2).
    The Holy Spirit considers Himself a person, not a personification.
    I know the standard watchtower reasoning is that they say that the Holy Spirit is an ‘active force’ ibecause the Greek word for ‘spirit’ (pneuma) is neuter.
    But, to any serious student of the Bible, this is faulty reasoning, because 1)the gender of a word relates to the grammatical form of the word, not to its sex or physical gender. Because a word is grammatically neuter does not mean that the object is an ‘it’ or of neuter sex. (Source: Elements of NT Greek, J W Wenham, 1979, p.8).
    A brilliant question, my friend.
    Let's see what the Bible says.
    God the father. Acts 10:40 "τοῦτον ὁ θεὸς ἤγειρεν τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτὸν ἐμφανῆ γενέσθαι" ) "Him God raised up the third day and shewed him openly"

    Jesus. John 2:19,21 "ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Λύσατε τὸν ναὸν τοῦτον καὶ ἐν τρισὶν ἡμέραις ἐγερῶ αὐτόν", "Jesus answered and said unto them Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" 21 "ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἔλεγεν περὶ τοῦ ναοῦ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ", "But he spake of the temple of his body"

    The Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 "εἰ δὲ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ ἐγείραντος Ἰησοῦν ἐκ νεκρῶν οἰκεῖ ἐν ὑμῖν ὁ ἐγείρας τὸν Χριστὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν ζῳοποιήσει καὶ τὰ θνητὰ σώματα ὑμῶν διὰ τὸ ἐνοικοῦν αὐτοῦ Πνεῦμα ἐν ὑμῖν", "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"

     
    No need to be sorry, i am enjoying this polite and friendly discussion. Thank you.
    Yes, the quotes you use are all of when Jesus WAS ON EARTH.
    It was Jehovah the father speaking to Jehovah the son.
    Remember that Jesus condescended Himself to take on the likeness (form, appearance) of man and the form of a servant. (Phil 2:7). His becoming a man involved gaining human attributes (subject to weakness, pain, sorrow and temptation), but not giving up his divine attributes.
     
    If you wish to talk about other standard passages the watchtower uses like John 20:28, John 20:17, John 17:3, I Corinthians 8:6, Psalm 110:1, etc. i would be more than happy to have a friendly, polite non-confrontational discussion.
    I think most of your above points, i have done short videos on.
     
    Blessings, my friend.
  15. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in 2 Corinthians 5:20 Ambassadors for Christ, the Anointed?   
    I’ve learned something about WT’s version of 2 Cor 5:20  It is the only translation that I have come across that says, “ambassadors substituting for Christ”.  And they use the word twice, even though it is not stated in their Kingdom Interlinear:
    NWT - “Therefore, we are ambassadors  substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”  2 Cor 5:20
    NKJV – ”Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.”
    An ambassador represents another individual, but cannot be a substitute for the person.  He presents the message he brings from the one he is representing, for other to hear.  Yet, how fitting for the WT to say the GB are “substitutes” for Christ. It is quite clear they do not bring any message from Christ.  Indeed.
    For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”  Matt 24:25
    If we look at the anointed as individual members of the same Body, they are to work synergistically with one another.  Every priest is a “messenger” from God, even though each one has a unique gift that contributes to the health of the entire Body.  (Mal 2:7; 1 Cor 12:12,13)  They are to represent Christ’s truth; so, yes, they are all ambassadors, or “preachers” of truth – of Christ, who is truth.  (John 14:6; 1 Pet 2:9)  Christ is the Head of the Body, and no one can replace him.  If they teach his truth, they are his representative. I hope that makes sense.
    "Truly I tell you, whoever receives anyone I send receives me, and the one who receives me receives him who sent me.  John 13:20."
     “He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”  2 Cor 3:6
     “A person should think of us in this way: as servants of Christ and managers of the mysteries of God.” 1 Cor 4:1
    Yes, I have learned since being out of the organization, that every anointed priest should be doing more than what they are allowed to, in the organization.  Truly, they are “trampled” as prophesied to occur in the last days.  Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; Rev 13:5-7
    The elders have become the GB’s ambassadors, relaying any and all doctrine from false christs, to the congregations. Rev 13:11,12; 16:13,14
     
     
     
     
     
  16. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    I almost choked on a piece of watermelon reading this.  Any anointed one who desires to load every JW onto an airplane and fly them to the wilderness in Australia, possesses a very unstable view of the spiritual fulfillment in Revelation. But if the two of you work well together, that’s great!
    Great Commission?  SM, I was a JW, not part of the Unification Church.  I’m sorry, but you will never get it!
    As for my anointing, I don’t have to prove that to you, Kosonan or anyone else.  I’m not begging anyone to believe me, since I answer only to God and Christ.  2 Tim 2:15  
     
    I think you really need to lighten up. Your determination to be beyond minutely critical of everyone's use of scripture, will only cause you health issues. I think you should pray about it.   But, even though my own life is incredibly crazy busy, I will attempt to “learn Concordances”, and I expect you will keep me in line about it.  I can’t promise anything though, since I go where the wind takes me.  🙂
  17. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Did you see the reply? There is only one view, to think Non-Trinitarians in general have a different belief and or viewpoint is deeming the latter as false, when it is only the Trinitarian view of the matter which is the negative one.
    Only the question raised, I even told you from the get go after citing 1 John 4:1, granted it is a serious verse to use.
    Because you are a Non-Trinitarian yourself, that is why. You know the position of those who will reign with Christ, yet if the latter has the exact same view, you deem it is a different viewpoint, which is incorrect. Even here it can be seen that you are one, just as I am, Witness and the others.
    You can't be this serious....
    Clearly no. The thing is here I am telling you credible truth, but the problem here is you deem otherwise. Granted it is 100% true, the problem here is because the Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach it. You think this is about reputation? That is exactly what Butler said when it comes to facts to which he previous deem as true, but later false - a spun around contradiction engineered by one's own hand.
    No one is going to extremes, it is not like the latter does any different anyways.
    Because I am one. As is the others. The difference, in the core, is that I do not believe Jesus is God himself.
    Your responses on this forum shows that you are a Non-Trinitarian. You Believe God is the Father, do you not? That Jesus is his Son whom he sent, do you not? Clearly you do not share the viewpoint of our opposites, this goes for everyone on this thread alone.
    How is it a guess when you riddled this forum if the Non-Trinitarian view outside of anything pertaining to JWs or CSA? Must I quote you now?
    I have. The claim of yours is that Jehovah's Witnesses have their own teaching concerning Revelations 5:10, to which the viewpoint is exactly the same as all Non-Trinitarians, Biblehub, Bible Gateway, Blue Letter, even Witness' comment from an older discussion I added on purpose, to which you deem as incorrect. Srecko, being as he is agreed with the other Christians, when I said the same thing, to which he deem as wrong.
    The Non-Trinitarian view is not primarily associated with Jehovah's Witnesses due to the fact this view has been here for a long, long time on opposition to the latter view.
    Next we have the wording. There is no issue with the wording because due to the fact there was no violation of the Greek Language, from commentary to scholarly notes, all stating the same thing, and understand clearly the focus of the verse in question - rulership and authority. The irony here is all marginal references for verses 9 and 10 points to the same conclusion. But you are reading the verse as normal as possible granted, an honest Bible reader can see the conveyance.
    Thus both claims have, easily been rectified with Biblehub only - literally. It only took one commentary note and a Strong's number.
    Judged for telling and speaking the truth? Seriously?
    Perhaps it is not the verse in question that needs the context explained, but rather, your convolution.
    The context is clearly for anyone to understand? So you must I quote a former JW then? She's Non-Trinitarian by the way:
  18. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in Public Watchtower No 2 2020   
    Yes. It's the same old record. What the WT represents here is still a possible interpretation, as I've often said. But it contradicts the most likely interpretation of several other Bible verses, and it uses unlikely definitions and interpretations of the original Greek terms.
    You already mentioned one of those potential contradictions, where Jesus couches all these "signs" in language about not being misled because even if you are seeing these things, the end is not yet. Of course, at some point in history, it may not be these particular signs, but there will certainly come a time when people will just simply "become faint out of fear, not know the way out." But we know that this is the time of the actual "end" or "synteleia" (the full [destructive] end of all things together.) But the rest of the chapter in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 17 & 21 let us know that people will still be milling, farming, buying, selling, and getting married right up until this point in time. Therefore it comes as a surprise, as if without warning.
    It should be of concern to more Witnesses, I think, that 1914 is sometimes defended as follows: Chronology, archaeology, and history say that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 BCE. But if we count forward 2,520 years from 587 we reach 1934 and we all know that nothing happened in that year. (Furuli uses this argument in his new book.) Therefore we look to 607 as the destruction of Jerusalem. He can do what he wants with shifting the evidence around to support the 607 date. What is of interest is the defense, 'it can't be 1934 because nothing happened then.'
    If nothing happened in 1934, then why do we speak of a time starting in 1914 when critical times hard to deal with will go from bad to worse? If it was bad in 1914, then why wasn't it so much worse in 1934? Why has the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses been reduced to relatively nothing in 2020, if Satan's anger is based on knowing he has a short period of time? Does Satan no longer have a short period of time? If it all had to happen in 1914, then where were the earthquakes? Why are the most notable ones a decade prior to 1914, and decades after?
    The reason is actually pretty clear. The Bible predicted that bad things would be happening in places, as always, but it would still be generally during a relatively peaceful time when people would be likely to take notice of peaceful and secure conditions around them. The Bible said that people, just as they were already doing in Peter's day, would be wondering if this promised spectacular judgment visitation (parousia) was really going to come upon them, precisely because conditions would be a lot like before the Flood when people kept living their life normally. That's what would make the parousia come upon them suddenly, like a thief in the night (and spectacularly, like lightning).
    It should also be curious why Jesus spent time on the topic of an invisible visitation (parousia). He promised that the parousia would not be invisible. There is always a tendency of people to want to be seen as prophets or having special insight and discernment. So they will be saying that even though Jesus is not visible in front of you, that he actually has returned, but he's over here or over there, or in some hidden room somewhere. This idea is that someone would claim special insight or knowledge about Jesus parousia that you don't yet have. Jesus indicated that this idea of an invisible parousia is nonsense. After saying not to fall for those persons who say he's here or there, but invisible to you, Jesus said that the parousia would be like lightning that flashes from one horizon to the other. Even the very word "parousia" when used in Greek with reference to a visiting ruler, was not just about the "visititation" which would be enough, but also about the visible spectacle and the parade and the entourage and the trumpeted fanfare. No one has this special insight or discernment of the parousia to claim to others, because everyone can see such a great lightning flash at the same time.
    So, you asked for my opinion, and that's it. But what I think is "false" information about it is not specifically the GB's opinion. They inherited it from old "Bible Student" tradition just like all JWs inherited it. Most JWs merely wait on the GB before thinking about changing their opinion on things because it makes for peace and order and unity in the congregation. Such doctrines are not the defining characteristic of JWs.
    Also, as far as teaching the GB's teaching on this, the primary purpose of the teaching is to create urgency. There is nothing wrong with urgency. The Bible promotes it, too. Jesus may have begun the "Messianic" kingship in 33 CE, and that was in the distant past. 1914 is in the distant past, too. So it's not a disaster in terms of its effect on our lives. The "GB" teaching is that Jesus is invisibly present. This is not a disaster either, for the same reason: Jesus said he would be invisibly present starting in 33 CE. ("Wherever two or three are gathered in Jesus' name. there he would be (invisibly present) in their midst." Also, as soon as Jesus was resurrected he said: "Look I am with you [invisibly present] all the days until the "synteleia" (the full completion/full conclusion) of the system of things."
    The basic message is that Jesus has begun his kingship, he is invisibly present, and he will shortly judge the entire world. This is not so far off, except in its chronology. And chronology shouldn't matter.  It did matter for as long as the WT was teaching that someone born before 1914 who was old enough to see the war in 1914 would not die out before the Judgment/end. This created a chronology error, a false teaching. It's been taken care of now that all those people died already.
  19. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    "Yes. This person fully well believes that the wording in the verse, as I mentioned to you, changes everything, he even deems the Non-Trinitarian view as false."
    I believe that SM was talking to someone else about me here in this conversation, on a different forum.. UM, he seems to KNOW exactly what I'm thinking or believing. Does he think he is now God ? 
    I would imagine his intent was to get me a bad reputation. So sad when people have to go to such extremes. And he says he is a Christian ? He never even asked me exactly what i believed, he just made guesses. Does he even show any proof of his claims against me ? But if he finds it necessary to do this type of thing to people then he will likely be judged on it by God or Christ. 
  20. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Perhaps if go on JW broadcasting there is same level of self-confidence and self-assured visible. :))  
  21. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in JW's response to: Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    @4Jah2me @Arauna Since the start of the Coronavirus pandemic, the rich and powerful have been moving out of the states, specifically New York. They have secondary homes outside of the states, those that got out evaded the early lockdowns, now we have the protests. Some of them even encourage protesting, but best know if the rioters and looters come to heir doorstep, they will fight back or tell them to attack somewhere else. Some of these rich folks, their children, high school and college, are part of some far-left movements, for instance, ANTIFA.
    So technically how they sound "BLM! Yeah! burn and loot everything to the ground.... But don't attack my property, bob is up the street, go to him instead".
    Black Israelites, however, I had quite the history with them.
  22. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in JW's response to: Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    The trilionaires (the secret ones ) and the super billionaires have bunkers as well as oligarchs in the east. 
    Thank goodness Jehovahs angels can get in anywhere!
  23. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from JJJ-AUSTRALIA in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Just to add that what other HUMANS think of me is of little consequence.
    We can expect to suffer insults and possibly worse, as we are Christians seeking truth from God through Christ.
    Jesus was, counted amongst thieves, called a drunkard, called a glutton, and suffered death by torture.
    Do you not think then that any follower of Christ should expect less ?
    My Faith keeps me strong and I ask ONLY God's forgiveness through Christ.  I do not fear 'man'.
     
     
  24. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Just to add that what other HUMANS think of me is of little consequence.
    We can expect to suffer insults and possibly worse, as we are Christians seeking truth from God through Christ.
    Jesus was, counted amongst thieves, called a drunkard, called a glutton, and suffered death by torture.
    Do you not think then that any follower of Christ should expect less ?
    My Faith keeps me strong and I ask ONLY God's forgiveness through Christ.  I do not fear 'man'.
     
     
  25. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    When I switched on my computer today i had around 20 comments up there. So I haven't yet read them all.
    However, I would ask people to go back to the VERY TOP of the page, and to look at my very first comment, which started this topic. 
    SM is making so many claims against me that I have to laugh at him or I would become annoyed. 
    My first comment was a question as to why the GB / CCJW used over rather than on. 
    SM, IT WAS A QUESTION. It was not a statement. Are you non English speaking ? Do you have to translate every thing I write ? Because you seem to have the wrong idea of everything I say. 
    For instance, you pretend that I do not know that the Kingdom is in heaven.  Show me then where i have stated that the Kingdom is not in heaven. Give proof of your accusation. 
    @Witness  Offered an explanation of the Bride of Christ being able to 'work' between heaven and earth.
    Now we do know that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, but he took on human form many times to appear to his disciples. Even showing his hands to Thomas that had doubted. 
    So, this shows the possibility of spirit / human transfer. Angels also have appeared in human form. 
    Why would the GB / CCJW want to show the Body of Christ as only being in heaven ?
    Because they want to promote the human Elders as being Princes here on Earth. By doing so they can give more 'power' to the Elders and ignore the Anointed ones. 
    Wicked slave beating their fellow slaves. 
    I do hope that people will begin to understand that i often write QUESTIONS.  Those questions are not statements. SM does not seem to be able to understand this fact. 
     
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