Patiently waiting for Truth

I am not native English speaker, but this is what i see correct understanding.

@Space Merchant What I'm saying is simple. That it appears that you are not seeking to serve God, but seeking to studying 'religions'. Hence your time seems to be spent trying to prove points. but you don't succeed. You only succeed in your own mind. You convince yourself that you are right, but it does not mean that you are. 
And back to the Revelation scripture. ABOVE means totally different to ON. 
So if the CCJW say the 144,000 are above the earth, then the CCJW are not saying the 144,000 are on the earth. 
But they translate it as both. 
I will push Strong's to one side because I DO NOT THINK God requires us to dig deep into the original Hebrew and Greek. Many people do not have that mindset. So they believe the things they are taught by others. 
I have said before that i believe God will provide a true Anointed to teach truth before the Judgement comes. All I am doing is pointing out a discrepancy made by the CCJW. You can believe whatever you wish. 
Ecclesiastes 12 v 12
As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh. 

@4Jah2me It is a defense of the Strong's and it's correlation with Scripture. The most jarring thing is even with the evidence in front of you, you ignore it.
You said there viewpoint is different than you it yourself, as I invited you to post said viewpoint. Which, as with all pertaining evidence, is counted against you.
So like you, I am suppose to accept the fact that congregants poison their members and never die? Am I to accept and support unity despite sexual sin being rampant? Am I suppose to believe that because of someone's standing he kills his own people for honor and is justified by it? Or am I to believe everyone is guilty, hence to be quick with judgement despite only One holds the power of said judgment?
Clearly no, because I speak truth doesn't mean I have to succumb to the inability to understand things.
That is why I encouraged you to do research. A quick glance at something does not negate to automatically understanding Strong's. It takes time, it takes understanding and patience. Understanding Strong's is what enables one to the realm of Hermeuntics and study of Scripture in a proper way, so when a situation comes, such as this one, the truth can be spoken, the same case I make with KJV-Onlyist.
God's Spirit is involved when the early writings were written for God has chosen these men do to as such, from Moses, to Paul, to John, etc. These men were indeed spirit filled, and God is the author of what they have written, hence Paul said in his letter to Timothy, it is God breathed. Granted that we do not have our original manuscripts, we have the copies, of which those long after the Apostles have to work with. From translation to translation and eventually into the modern tongue of which you, me and everyone else here speaks, clearly our modern tongue is not literal Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek.
That being said, Revelation 5:10 is as clear as day of what it means, what it is conveying. I don't see how that flew past you in this regard.
And what does my study of religion and all this of Abrahamic Faiths have to do with this subject matter? Is this another tool of deviation on your part because you are unwilling to provide your claims?
Yes I have studied religions for the very reason to counter falsehood and misconceptions. Both you and I can agree that God is not Triune, without the Strong's or Textual Criticism, that concept would be the end of what is true. This is one of the reasons as to why we speak up.
That being said, you have now moved from the study of Scripture to the study of religion. To deviate from what the Strong's pinpoint that is true, JB?
When it comes to study and teaching, the reader seeks the spirit from God to enable that person to understand. The truth of the matter must be looked for, otherwise, confusion and falsehood will become the person.
Again, we are on the subject of a verse in the Bible, adding on to deviate from the topic at hand is not going to help you here. Granted When it comes to this variation of Textual Criticism, this is where I am most serious. So deviation is, to me, seen as being evasive in the wrong way.
Now you are tending on another territory. What does me being a Truther have to do with the discussion at hand? Mind you, quite random, as is with the religious studies part.
A Truther is someone who speaks the truth and finds truth. Outside of Christianity, the role of the truther is see what is true and push forth that truth whereas the world sees such things as right, we see it as wrong.
For instance, when it comes to homosexuality, Truthers do not condone that conduct, let alone teaching children immoral and brazen, we speak against it.
That being said, I do not know as to why you interjected Truther here, is that to commit mockery of something? Granted Truthers, in this sense when it comes to immorality are the ones who indirectly give you help by their actions of their hands? That seems like an appeal to motive granted you really do not have anything to help your case - I remain unfazed by that attempt because an appeal to motive just shows the cracks in the armor, in this case.
No chance? This just shows you do not even know what that term means, yet for some reason you had the idea of including it in a discussion for Bible Translation, as you did, with religious studies.
Strong's are not complicated. That is why I linked you my thread on 1 Timothy 3:16, that there is an obvious example compared to Revelations 5:10.
What are you talking about? Also, watch the language (Matthew 15:11; Ephesians 4:29; James 3:10)
What are you talking about? You went from Rev. 5:10 to religious studies, to truther, to this...
How am I sitting on the fence for agreeing with the Strong's and context?
You said the viewpoint is different - then let's see it, I invited you to cite their findings on the verse. If I can cite my findings on the matter, what is withholding you from doing the same if you stated the viewpoint in the realm of belief is vastly different?
That being said, Strong's Concordance on the literal Greek is not going to show you any mercy if the claim is no different from 99% of the commentaries.
  
I don't get what you are saying, granted the origin of T.A used in their translation that, in this case, predates them....

Ok so SM defends the CCJW. So be it. 
Having quickly looked at Wiki regarding Strong's, I do not see any mention of God's Holy Spirit being involved. 
As I've said many times, if the Scriptures were written under the inspiration of God's Holy spirit, then it needs God's Holy spirit to understand them. 
If I am right (and SM will prob's disagree) then SM is a man that studies Religions, plural. He seems to be a Theologist. 
As there can be only one true way of serving God then would God supply Holy Spirit to help a person study Theology ? 
Being a Truther, is that what God wants ?  If it is then many of us have no chance. Why ? Because many of us are of a basic education and many things are deliberately made so complicated as to confuse many.
The old old story. If you cannot satisfy them with science, then baffle them with bulls--t. And it works. The Leaders of the CCJW have proved that it works, over and over again. 
I make no apologies to Space Merchant because I think he is sitting on the fence. That's his choice but I don't have to sit there with him  
@Srecko Sostar gave us a quote here :-
 
" quote 2: We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified. *
Such changes are in harmony with the Bible principle stated at Proverbs 4:18: “The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.” Just as the rising sun reveals details of a landscape ..... "
 But the problem here is this. A sensible person would not go stumbling around in the dark before the 'sun reveals details of a landscape ..' The Leaders of the CCJW / Watchtower have obviously been up too early and have stumbled themselves and many others. The blind leading the blind and both fall into the pit. 
Simply put. Why were they in so much of a hurry to run ahead of God and Christ ?  Because it has been shown that they did not wait on true spiritual guidance to lead them ..........................

No, i wait for others, in this case you, to put first "cart" on the table. 
It seems how exists individuals, JW members too, who put tremendous faith in God and believe how with Him everything is possible. Even to have "spiritual paradise" without organized religion.
But when they been faced with second question, then they feels guilty and fear because answer: "No" would mean they have to live without WTJWorg. :))

And yet nothing here brands them as benefactors, hence my previous response on the difference between a benefactor who leads vs. a member among the Christ who leads.
And quote:
As of what is seen, you've added your own exegesis, granted, if someone were to read your citation in full, it is counted against you. You've done this before, but it seems you continue to go down that route.

Thank you. 
"honorable titles for important people" - the meaning of "faithful and discreet slave" has become very important to JWs.  Without them, who would supply them, "food at the proper time"?
"recognized for their contributions and the like." - "We also need to appreciate Jehovah’s provision of “the faithful and discreet slave,” the body of spirit-anointed Christians through whom he provides spiritual food for the household of faith. (Matt. 24:45)"  be study 22 pp. 153-156 -
"These Benefactors are the types to take a lead among the people" - "They recognize, however, that Christ is using a small group of anointed Christian men as a Governing Body to lead and direct his disciples on earth."w10 9/15 pp. 25-29 -
"it should not be confused those among the Christ, to mimic as if they are and or align themselves with world rulers."   The GB are entrenched in politics, they practice the opposite of  Jesus taught.  He never said to his followers to use the system to gain selfish advantage to promote their empire. No, these men are not "among the Christ".  I'm sorry to say, that these blind men would not consider you as such, as well.
The scripture is a perfect application of the dual rulership in the WT.
 
  
 
 

Ok so SM defends the CCJW. So be it. 
Having quickly looked at Wiki regarding Strong's, I do not see any mention of God's Holy Spirit being involved. 
As I've said many times, if the Scriptures were written under the inspiration of God's Holy spirit, then it needs God's Holy spirit to understand them. 
If I am right (and SM will prob's disagree) then SM is a man that studies Religions, plural. He seems to be a Theologist. 
As there can be only one true way of serving God then would God supply Holy Spirit to help a person study Theology ? 
Being a Truther, is that what God wants ?  If it is then many of us have no chance. Why ? Because many of us are of a basic education and many things are deliberately made so complicated as to confuse many.
The old old story. If you cannot satisfy them with science, then baffle them with bulls--t. And it works. The Leaders of the CCJW have proved that it works, over and over again. 
I make no apologies to Space Merchant because I think he is sitting on the fence. That's his choice but I don't have to sit there with him  
@Srecko Sostar gave us a quote here :-
 
" quote 2: We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified. *
Such changes are in harmony with the Bible principle stated at Proverbs 4:18: “The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.” Just as the rising sun reveals details of a landscape ..... "
 But the problem here is this. A sensible person would not go stumbling around in the dark before the 'sun reveals details of a landscape ..' The Leaders of the CCJW / Watchtower have obviously been up too early and have stumbled themselves and many others. The blind leading the blind and both fall into the pit. 
Simply put. Why were they in so much of a hurry to run ahead of God and Christ ?  Because it has been shown that they did not wait on true spiritual guidance to lead them ..........................

I always keep tabs it just comes from memory. Even on myself in order to recall something, hence my memory is as thick as the skin of a rhino. Others have done the same, in my regard. Anyways, But you have to convey the statement correctly otherwise there will be confusion. You should know this because the both of us stated the same thing in the past, but now here it is different. So in regards to the latter, the claim of denying of which you provided is in err.
I believe I lectured you in the past of what a Benefactor is. A Benefactor (Biblical term, not the modern English term, yet somewhat similar), well the word used in that verse comes from the word (Ancient Greek: Εὐεργέτης, Euergétēs), which means that an individual who is doing good to and or for others. The term is associated with honorable titles for important people, for instance, a Prince, for these people are recognized for their contributions and the like. These Benefactors are the types to take a lead among the people, however, it should not be confused those among the Christ, to mimic as if they are and or align themselves with world rulers. Faithful servants of the Lord are the opposite. They do not partake to be like rulers of the world, but rather, they focus on what it means to be a Christian, a follower of the Christ and lead by example and lesson, as the marginal references in the verses you provided provides context.
In terms of ministering and serving, this citation from verse 26 gives the answer. Hebrews 13:7, 17, 24, which describes the work of those holding religious office within the Christian Church Congregation. We had this conversation parallel conversation on this before, to which you accused me of being misogynistic for agreeing with Scripture.
That being said, to deem them as benefactors in this regard when they are not is a misapplication of the verse, therefore, your mixing of verses to fit your own exegesis, as I have and the other alleged chosen one this forum call you out on. This is especially the fact you are dealing with modern day Restorationist, for regardless if they are striving to be of the early church and or lacking, Restorationist will never be caught dead granted of what you claim. It is in-bedded in their Christology after all.
Clearly, but this is not the case, and you make this claim when the latter is the opposite, hence why I pointed out it does not make any sense. This goes back to our early discussion about the Spiritual Stones of the Spiritual House, which what you said there contradicts present day regarding the matter. I do not see as to how and why you fancy misapplication.
That being said, my question to you is what if you were in the had said something that had denied even what the Christ as taught, should we look at you as the same, that is, using your claim? Because anything can easily be linked should you say what is not true in regards to question.

So glad you keep tabs on me.  I didn't realize it has been 33 times!  Who keeps tabs on you?    

Exactly.
A dispute also arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. 25 Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.  Luke 22:24-27
This is the pattern the Watchtower GB and elders, follow.  They have ignored, denied the words of Christ.
 

@Witness That statement does not make anyone correlation to any sense. To deny Jesus is to deviate from what he teaches, to what his God said unto him, unto the people [you]. As pointed out before the notion of Excommunication has indeed started with the Christ, this was not engineered by any man, as the Bible shows.
Also you are missing verses again, just wanted to point that out, for possible the 33rd time it seems.

@4Jah2me I controlled it... by moving JW conversations here in the JW world.....
And thank you @JW Insider for redirecting where possible. I enjoyed your analysis a lot.

There is no shift in doctrine because everyone agrees on what this verse conveys, as you can see "EPI" is seen in the verse --> https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_1909.htm
Because there is no change whatsoever. If there is a change, you'd have to prove that there is something else there that does not correlate with G#1909.
Literally has nothing much to do with the subject matter at hand, and according to what you conveyed before, seems to be in reverse. Therefore attempting to use this when the Concordances are there is indefensible, granted the verse in question the context has not changed regardless of which form of 1909 is used.
That being said, the next response would be the past regarding Strong's in other discussion, you best you be prepared for that because the way I see it in the situation of Strong's is nothing more than the KJVO discussions I've been in.
@Outta Here Starting to realize that this is a repeat of 2018.
I remember stating he following:

Actually I do, hence my citation, JB.
And? None of the 2 violates the Greek Strong's granted the word in question is still 1909, if it is not 1909, then you have a problem.
lol what? You can't be serious.... "upon the earth" and "over the earth" there is no shift in teaching and or interpretation. The context of the verse/passage has not been negated whatsoever. Therefore, the Concordances outweighs your view here, regardless.
That being said, there are commentaries for EVERY SINGLE VERSE in the Bible. And granted as to what is seen by these studies, it puts your notion to shame, in this regard.
No viewpoint is withheld. It is only you saying that, but the commentary disagrees with you, as is, with those in the Strong's community. The basic significance of the Greek word in question "epi" is upon, on, or before, over, etc, for that is not the only meaning. When used in connection with power, authority, or dignity, epi can also mean over as well. Therefore nothing has been shifted.
If a given translation is possible according to the known usage and rules of Greek (Greek Grammar and Structure), it is intellectually dishonorable to make accusation of a translation trying to make it fit his current beliefs.
The context points to the notion of the one who rules from heaven. And since “epi” can legitimately be translated over and or similar within G#1909, one can see this as the option that most likely reflects the intended meaning.
That being said, that statement of yours does not make much sense granted that the context of this verse alone is easily understood, in fact, nearly 100% of people who study the Bible, specifically Revelations, understand what this verse is about.
As for context: It is regarding God's accomplishment. The purpose of restoring the earth under Kingship by means of the heavenly Kingdom, that consist of Lord Christ Jesus as the King, accompanied by the chosen ones [priests], whom have authority. As a whole, due to their divinity and connection, they make it possible to bring forth the earth into what God intended it to be, harmoniously aligned with God's original promise, thus fulfilling this purpose of restoration. More context: Verse 10. - And hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and didst make them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests. Of those whom thou didst redeem from every nation, thou didst make a kingdom and priests. Wordsworth remarks that these honours conferred upon the redeemed imply duties as well as privileges. They receive the princely honours conferred upon them only on condition that they also become priests, presenting themselves, their souls and bodies, a living sacrifice to God. If you wish, you can post their view here, or quote them granted you deem the view is different, then we can see what is actually correct regarding this verse because from what I have seen, nearly everyone is in agreement with what this verse conveys, even the Restorationist community agrees, as is with even Bible adept commentators. The ones who do not agree are the ones who Creed adheres of MSC.
That being said, no viewpoint as been changed by anyone in this regard.....
There is no deception, granted one can see the context of this verse is in regards to Jesus and the Chosen ones, having a role in the restoration of the earth, which correlates with God's actual purpose found in The Genesis Act of Creation, not to mention, God's Promise, found in that same book.
There is only one explanation granted the context. The problem here is you are injecting your viewpoint from an modern English speaker rather than one who applies Hermeneutics in the Scripture itself.
That being said, I thought your focus was on the wording, now you want to speak of explanation granted it is an obvious one?
I suggest you do the research because the your view vs. the legitimate view of this verse is vastly different: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/5-10.htm
It is not about teaching, it is about context. The Interlinear is a literal Greek Translation into the Language, however, the latter is a modern day version and or revised, if need be.
The teaching regarding the Kingdom of God and who is to be stationed in said Kingdom has not changed, or has ever changed.
They haven't forgotten apparently, for they have it listed. Interlinear Bibles in general and or the Hebrew to English Translations are primarily for those that prefer the literal choice, and or do so to learn what this word means and or how it looks in the language in question, etc.
Most modern readers know of these translations too, but prefer to stick to the modern translations.
You do realize that God's Kingdom is in heaven - right?
God rule will be over the earth from HIS heavenly realm (Revelation 11:15), This is why the Bible calls, in 2 Timothy 4:18, The Heavenly Kingdom.
God's King will rule from God's Kingdom, and is accompanied by the chosen ones. They govern all things on the earth. The key element here is this: not the area, but the authority which they exercise.
 
What amazes me is how you missed this context...
And no - regardless of who is of Zion, they are not part time workers, if that is what you are implying.
Seriously - I strongly suggest you read the BASICS in Bible Strong's Concordances because as of now, you are sounding like the KJV-Onlyist I deal with.

I found interesting to present this two view about same issue, about religious truth, or to be said, what is the meaning of Bible text aka - interpretations. Both quotes are originated from persons who are deeply involved in defending religious truth and teachings. They are, i believe, bible scholars of some sort. I don't know what credentials they have.
 
First quote is made by an individual and is very concise. We may say, clear and simple as it should be, because we will agree how truth have to be clear and simple. But, perhaps it is not always that way :)) 
quote 1: There is no change, there is no misinterpretation. Therefore, there is no error. 
 
Second quote is made by group of people and is massive. And stands as opposite to first one. 
quote 2: We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified. *
Such changes are in harmony with the Bible principle stated at Proverbs 4:18: “The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.” Just as the rising sun reveals details of a landscape gradually, God grants an understanding of divine truth progressively, in his due time. (1 Peter 1:10-12) As the Bible foretold, he has accelerated this process during “the time of the end.”—Daniel 12:4.
These adjustments in our understanding should neither surprise nor disturb us. Ancient worshipers of God also had mistaken ideas and expectations and needed to adjust their viewpoint.
 
I will leave further comments, if any, to the audience of this forum. :)) 

This is interesting.  I didn't realize it is found in the WT's Kingdom Interlinear!

I often refer to their own Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, since many times their translation  on the right is in favor of their doctrine.

 
 
 

As @Outta Here give information, WT have various Bible versions,  translations.
But only last edition have to be count as "best Bible" :))) and to be use for spreading "spiritual food" aka truth that leads to eternal life. Yes, he must be right. You can read whatever Bible Translation you like, but confirmation about what is meaning of text need to be made by Watchtower study edition. ;)) 

You seem to be cart-before-horse-ing.

Seems like a lot of you 'Elders' have control over this forum.  What with the control and your own 'secret' 'forum' for insiders only, us 'outsiders' must be the 'minority' Um, new protest, 'Outsiders Matter'. 

When you said: "No", i would understand than how WT Society and all legal entities are not needed for JW members and people in general to be able get close to God and Jesus.   
That is contrary to WT publication that said how only WTJWorg with GB is able to provide "spiritual food" and how "spiritual paradise" only existing inside this organization.
Obviously, your short and direct answer giving idea how WTJWorg is not necessary for "spiritual paradise", which i can agree. But than why JW's preaching how people need  to Join JW as precondition to be under God's protection that is only inside "spiritual paradise" that exists only under leadership and governing of WTJWorg company?  

It’s not to the point of hatred—nor even close.

Is this internet page approved by GB and WT? Does WT endorse JW's to go on Biblehub or to go only to official JW org sites that have best bible translation and brand new interpretations ? :)))) 
 

In the truther community, by the majority of them in the US and EU, BLM has not just become political, it has become religious minus anything pertaining to God, but religious in a way to deem all police officers as guilty when not all policemen are bad, nor are they racist. BLM is a manifestation of hypocrisy. Therefore, as of recent, I do speak on the matter of BLM, against them and what their timeline is, however, their claims are forfeit to the point they have younger people believing their lies.