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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in JW's response to: Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    I knew I should try to keep religion completely out of this. But. . .
    How did Jesus know that Herod Antipas was a fox? How did Luke know that Felix was probably looking for a bribe from Paul? How do you think that the writers for the Daniel and Revelation books could try to come up with the political entities that seemed to match up to the entities and symbols found in various Bible prophecies. Outside of those flimsy excuses, you might still be right. (That I shouldn't offer my two cents.)
    But I did fully expect this comment from you. I wasn't sure who might attack first, though, since there are others besides you who could even be more anxious to pounce. I consider these posts to be much more trivial than a Bible discussion, but I have no problem providing something for others to pounce on, especially if someone's comfort level with other topics might be too strained if they feel it necessary to take them too seriously.
  2. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in What will you do?   
    I do not associate myself with anyone. My concern is that I do not like misinformation and falsehood. I get asked the same question about Islam too, does not make me a Muslim, but, if something is said in error, I will speak the truth in the matter. This goes for the Abrahamic Faiths. This also connects with my study of religion and theology as a whole, as is with my position as a Truther.
    Depends on what form of Unitarianism you are referring to, but it should be obvious as to where I stand.
    Therefore, if someone sees something wrong, of course they will speak truth. But mainstream Christians such as yourself deem people to be silent, and you kind have a not of making accusations because they do not apply mainstream Creeds and the like. Of course you already know what I am referring to.
     
    That being said, there are churches that will not open. There are those who defy the government and end up having consequences follow suit.
    You never asked me that question. You did try to insult me with that Biblical Unitarian link last time. Last I check, I am not interfaith, I do not support Kairos, Peak, or Elijah's Interfaith Institution. Nor do I support, but rather, I am against the United Nation's L.T. Also, Also, as God is living, I would NEVER support homosexuality and their movement, hence your link.
    Even outside of that, if it is Hermeneutics alone, you attack that, when the notion is solely of the Bible.
     
    That being said, as I recall your last attempt failed:
     
  3. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Ignorance is a bliss, no? Actually my sources were from the Strong's Concordances itself (something I take with seriousness). If you can read carefully, you can see I linked a source(s). I didn't include manuscripts because it would seem it would be a bit of a handful for you.
    That being said, the correction is not by translation. The source is by Manuscript Sources. There is a different, i.e. There is a reason as to WHY some verses are omitted from revised versions of most translations vs. the KJV.
    But I do invite you if you want, let's make it a challenge, for this is what I live for. Pick any verse from any translation. CSE members love Hermenutical/Scriptural challenges concerning Bible verse/passage translations.
    It is too much of a puzzle for Srecko. Perhaps a difficult as that equals to that of the mystery of a Tomato being either fruit or vegetable - too mind boggling, to difficult for him to comprehend.
    @Srecko Sostar On the contrary, there's a concordance for that too. Also God cannot be dead, nor can he die. God is not even a man according to the Bible, even by Job's own words. God is a spirit, as stated by the Christ. Seriously.... That is elementary, I really do not have to bring up the very thing you hate the most ----->>>>> Biblical Facts. 
    Good times for I remember that inevitable struggle.
  4. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Hybrids. Mixture of angels and humans. 
    Perhaps artist want to show Unity and Uniformity. 
    I am not sure that i understand explanation, interpretations of some Bible words about this "transformation". Also, if human are created by God to live on Earth, and WT theology said how Catholics or some other religious people not "going" to "heaven" after death because that is false teachings.....why would that be different for some JW class, "anointed"? 
    Resurrection is good hope. But to live on Earth. Why would God be in need to have group of people, earthly women and men for living in "heaven" and rule over humankind? And be invisible to their subjects? I would drove some line with Eden and human. God was invisible to Adam and Eve, Abel, Cain .... according to Bible. But they spoke together.  Human heard a Voice.
    This is also interesting. If you "see" God you will be dead, but if you "hear" His voice, you will not be dead. ??!! ...
    So, according to WT theology; Will they, 144000, speak with humans? Will humans "heard" their voices as Adam, Eve, Abe, Cain did hear God's? Because "voice" is need to be heard for purpose of learning. Human will need to be instructed how to get "perfection" and how to find "true doctrines" without later,  subsequently,  afterwards so called "clarifications". :))
  5. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JJJ-AUSTRALIA in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Lol he must have got all the responses from the watchtower, only the watchtower bible translation is correct without any errors... According Space M. 
  6. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in Furuli's new book: Is any of it right? Useful? Like Franz?   
    They already have denied Jesus "three times", since they deny the anointed members of his Body.  If the members are silenced, so is the Head.  A working body requires the mobility of all of its members.  Jesus expects his members to work in the capacity God gave them.  (1 Cor chapter 12)  He expects them to listen to him and not men who appear to be equal, but are in fact, proving their hate for those in Christ; thus showing no respect for their head, Jesus Christ. 
    In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.  For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,  not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.  1 John 3:10,11
    Murder these days, is called disfellowshipping; a hypocritical act of "love".  Rev 13:11,12,15  The GB has created a guillotine machine of rules where any who reject them are easily "killed" by their army of henchmen.  
    Nowhere in Jesus' words, does it say that one member of his body has the ability to cut off the other from his own body.  
    That would be God's job.
    With the power bestowed on them by the GB, their henchman fully apply their power to "kill" God's priesthood/"living stones.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17
    “Through his cunning He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule; And he shall exalt himself in his heart. He shall destroy many in their prosperity. He shall even rise against the Prince of princes; But he shall be broken without human means.  Dan 8:25
     
     
     
  7. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new book: Is any of it right? Useful? Like Franz?   
    They will not deny Jesus 3 times ...
    But they will deny, renounce OWN Theology,  more than 3 times for the same doctrine.
    And at the same time they will claim that their theology has always been the theology of Jesus ....each time, at each change. :))
  8. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in Furuli's new book: Is any of it right? Useful? Like Franz?   
    As  you know full well but your dishonesty will not allow you to ACKNOWLEDGE it --- all other Christian religions  read the bible and yet did not fathom out that the soul is not immortal....... and hence they do not understand the ransom sacrifice.
    No wonder Jehovah did not use them to preach the message in the last days to the entire world Math 24:14
  9. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in JW's response to: Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    “Wednesday morning at five o’clock as the day begins.”
  10. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in JW's response to: Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    Look y'all, all I'm interested in is: When is Armagedon coming? 
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in JW's response to: Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    Would it be fair to surmise your post as a “conspiracy theory?” I am working on a post on that topic now, a few separate items having gelled together over the last few weeks. 
    Maybe, depending on the action here, I will even put it on this thread—not as a competing idea, nor dovetailing—just the same topic as seen from another angle—with focus on how it relates to our people.
    When push comes to shove, all is a manifestation of the whole world lying in the power of the you-know-who of 1 Jn 5:19. It is odd that Tom Irregardless’s remark (quoted from Willie Whitepebble’s recollection) comes across as so stupid on the surface and so spot-on overall:
    “And to think that Tom Irregardless, when confronted with some news report he didn’t understand, which was almost anything, would dismiss it all with ‘it just goes to show we need the Kingdom!’ How long had he been saying that?”
    I’ve known plenty of people apt to use that quick retort. I becomes exasperating. Still, that does not mean that it is wrong.
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    That's not at all true. I have defended the staggered approach for years, even while JTR for example was saying that there was only one definition of a generation: something like an average lifespan of people who heard Jesus in 33 CE. There is no sarcasm at all in my acceptance of the staggered generation approach. I repeated my agreement with it, not out of sarcasm, but because you gave the impression that I hadn't thought about it.
    In truth, I believe that all of these signs that started when Jesus was enthroned as King of Kings, and when he was given all authority in heaven and on earth, when he was given a title above all kings and princes and authorities in heaven and on earth, and when he sat at God's right hand, the right hand of the throne of Majesty. I believe that Paul would not have stated that "sitting at God's right hand was the same as "ruling as king" unless it was really true.
    (1 Corinthians 15:25) . . .For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. (Psalm 110:1) . . .Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” (1 Timothy 6:15) . . .He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, (Revelation 1:5) . . .and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”. . . So, of course the scriptures simply do not allow me to believe that Jesus became King only in 1914. For me, that would be dishonest. Yet, I ALSO believe that these signs of wars and earthquakes and pestilence and famine are actually signs that Jesus has actually been ruling in the midst of his enemies, and that those enemies include Death, which has not yet been fully put under his feet. Therefore he is still sitting at God's right hand, ruling as king, conquering in the midst of his enemies, right up until the last enemy Death is also conquered and thrown into the lake of fire, destroyed forever.
    (1 Corinthians 15:26) 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. (Revelation 20:14) . . .And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. As Jesus rides throughout all of Christian history, he has been riding alongside the other horses representing Death from wars, famine, pestilence, etc. But Christians continue to find strength in his conquering ride through all of history, even though he has been ruling, riding and conquering in the midst of his enemies. We know that it means that we too can become conquerors.
    (1 John 5:4, 5) . . .everyone who has been born from God conquers the world. And this is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith. 5 Who can conquer the world? Is it not the one who has faith that Jesus is the Son of God? Now that these "signs" are getting even worse, we can know that our deliverance is much closer than when we first became believers. This is true whether we live to see the Judgment or if we die before that time. I think that as things get worse, historically, we can be sure that Jehovah will step in before it is too late:
    (Matthew 24:22) . . .In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. (Luke 18:8) . . .Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?” (Luke 21:25, 26) . . .and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. We are already at a time when there are more persons living in fearful expectation of what might be coming upon the earth. This doesn't mean to me that these are definite signs that can put a range of dates on our generation, but it highlights the importance of putting faith in God's government.
  13. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    Organization is similar to individual, person. Both of them have past. With good and bad moments or periods. It can cause sort of shame and unpleasant feelings if someone tell this about us. But that is part of history, that we like or not like to hear again.
    If WTJWorg fights strong against people who supposedly braking "intellectual property and copy laws" by using PRESENT and OLD publications for revealing doctrines and interpretations made by Organization, let it be. 
    But, you make mistake when criticize people who doing "Christian duty", and that is, among other things, - to speak what they know and believe is truth.
    I love your (and other people) quotes too, but not to level of giving like or upvote. I love them because it helps me to make comparison, testing and to recognize intellectual/spiritual positions, your's or mine.
  14. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    Outside of JWs, there are groups that adhere to the 1914 teaching of Jesus being King. I had posted a list before of existing and extinct groups that held that view. Everyone knew about what was studied regarding Giza, however, there is more that us of mankind do not know, so it is best to tread the path than stress out over when it will happen. Likewise with Issac Newton.
    Only God knows, for we all are imperfect.
    That being said, we all know, practically everyone here knows and can agree God has made Jesus King.
    Well a second Civil War is spoke of as a possibility granted the situation coupled with an uptick in religious tension, people pretending they are better than the Christ and his God in order to carter to those in conquest for peace and security.
    I'd like to add that has you or anyone else been paying attention to Babylon the Great's movements? 
  15. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    Uh oh—where’s that application for Bible 101? It’s here on the desk somewhere, isn’t it?
  16. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    No contradiction if you accept that the generation is about the SIGNS that started after the crowning of Jesus. .... but I guess you have not thought about it and hence will not get your head around it.
     
    The civil war definitely still affected people as late as 19 sixties..... just as WW2 signs are still affecting me........ There are some people still alive which were born during WW1........so the staggered approach is not as luny as you pretend it to be with sarcasm.
    You do not believe in any of the signs and the generation -  be honest...... so why would you think further?  I suggest you can start quoting all JWs  history  to prove how incompetent they are........ then you will fulfill your  Christian duty to bring the absolute truth to the friends here who love your quotes which is supposed to prove a superior insight.  Because after all you have so much inside knowledge!  
  17. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    I spoke to and older black gentleman—he’d invited me into his house, where he had several Bibles and study materials revealing the student that he plainly was. It is dicey to point out that he was black because long ago I did that with another person, and Witness, from her pseudo-heavenly throne, launched a lecture my way about racism. I say it now (and then) to call attention to a basic humility and common sense which it seems to me whites are much quicker to shed. Okay, Witness?—it’s not a put-down.
    Anyhow, with this fellow—who really did know his Bible—a certain passage of Corinthians came up, and I made to read it. “No, no, don’t you read it,” he cried, in mock-panic, “you’ll screw it up!” He chuckled even as he said it, and so did I. He wasn’t wound up too tight—I found myself liking the guy.
    That’s how I feel about 4Jah, who posts one of my favorite groups of all time. I love The Who. But if he posts it, you just know that he will screw it up.
  18. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in JW's response to: Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    He’s on your thread, JWI, not mine.
    If it is not important to you, then why ask it?
    Look, it is not a bad question.** No need to act as though so pious that a “worldly” thought would never cross your mind. Obviously it has, and it is not a sin to ask about what’s going on. If you don’t know what is going on, then you are ever inclined to say stupid things. Tom Irregardless may have been right, but his knee-jerk response was annoying nonetheless: 
    “And to think that Tom Irregardless, when confronted with some news report he didn’t understand, which was almost anything, would dismiss it all with ‘it just goes to show we need the Kingdom!’ How long had he been saying that?”
    **I won’t answer it, of course, because I am too pure for that sort of thing—I only think of God. But maybe “worldly” JWI will.
  19. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in Furuli's new book: Is any of it right? Useful? Like Franz?   
    @César Chávez Pretty much, a Christian congregation itself is the church. The church is the people, and the head of the church is the Christ.
  20. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    And it's amazing how much heavy military equipment is being sold even to small towns over the last decade especially. I guess it makes the [recent military] recruits feel more comfortable? I suspect it also puts them in mind of how they needed to respond with heavy lethal force just a few months prior in some cases [in other countries]. Easy to imagine a new interview question when hiring police recruits: Can you fire a tank?
  21. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    Nah, you screwed it all up. But behind the scenes, I contacted JTR and he made it right for you. “Is he doing more ‘heavy lifting,‘” he said. “Is he ever!” I replied.
    I haven’t seen Tucker and I haven’t yet read your post thoroughly. I will. One thing that I noticed:
    I spoke to a retired military man in field service who told me how he had felt a great sense of responsibility for those under his command. For some reason, in these racially charged days, you always have to say if someone was white or black. He was black. He spoke to how in police recruiting today a military background was a large factor—sometimes the only factor—that was taken under consideration for hire. This was true even of those who had had serious discipline problems. “You don’t think that if they are discipline problems in the military, they might not be ideal for civilian policing?” he said.
  22. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    I haven't done a political post in a while, but it is probably a good idea that I try to explain in what ways I agree with Tucker Carlson (whom I usually disagree with to such a point that I never watch more than about once a month). I will try to avoid religion in this post, although it usually creeps in. This is more of an attempt to explain what I think is going on from a completely socio-economico-political perspective.
    I think the recent “Black Lives Matter” protests are an outgrowth of a few specific factors. Conceptually, at least, there are the very real issues of police brutality, racist violence, and the “disparities” people of color often face. 
    Materially, however, I think that there are 2 main factors driving the protests. One has been been the very recent social isolation and economic pain caused by America’s COVID19 response. This is too obvious. The other is — and has been for about 40 years now — the increasing proletarianization of the Professional/Managerial Middle Class (PMC). This has been particularly acute since the rapid liberalization and financialization of the economy since the 1980s and especially since the Recession/Depression of 2008. 
    Members of the PMC are a relatively privileged class, distinct from the already “precarious” working class. Typically they are university-educated (the ~35% of the population with Bachelor’s Degrees or higher) possessing — or having close family that possess — upper-middle or higher incomes. The PMC is engaged in (or has close family engaged in) professional work involving business, management, finance, computers, engineering, law, medicine, media, education, and other technical fields. They make up about 40% of the recently employed labor force, or about 30% of the total population (typically earning the top 30% of incomes). 
    While distinct from the ruling capitalist class (the 1% or less that own and control the bulk of capitalism), and also distinct from the vast working masses, the PMC has attributes of both. As they are typically inculcated in elite institutions, they carry the ruling ideologies: liberalism, individualism, self-help, liberal capitalism (“representational” economics), quasi-religious idealism, cosmopolitanism (“diversity and inclusion”), imperialism, and identitarianism (“identity politics”). 
    But, in the era of monopoly capitalism, and thereby of stagnation, war, rising prices, and large-scale crisis, they have also had to face some fraction (however small) of the grim reality the proletarian masses face on a daily basis. Low wages and part-time employment, the absence of unions or collective bargaining, concerns about childcare, and unprecedented levels of debt have all become commonplace. 
    This has bred an acute sense of insecurity and entitlement for those directly or even indirectly affected. This has bred hopelessness and political polarization. It also breeds a corresponding anarchist ideology tied to its liberal counterpart: the rejection (to varying degrees) of authority, intellectuals, elections, law, leadership, centralism, control, government, and/or “politics” more generally — in favor of decentralization, reaction, emotional catharsis, fetishization of “protest,” and local “communitarianism.” 
    Needless to say, these are not the only people showing up to Black Lives Matter (BLM) protests. But neoliberal antiracists and their anarchist counterparts do form the majority or at least a plurality of what might be termed the “movement.” And they certainly drive the gist of its politics, its “strategy” and tactics, and its social media presence. 
    I use quotes around a lot of words here — “disparity,” “representation,” “movement,” “strategy”... This is because I believe these to be flawed categories; PMC distortions of reality often serving the neoliberal ruling class (not necessarily consciously).
    It is difficult to see the “strategy” that BLM takes as a whole (though there is great potential in some organizations, which typically devolves over time). There is not really a unified or long-term plan outside of performative acts such as “Say Their Names,” the confessionals of white guilt, firing a few police officers, the rioting, and the media spectacle. Even specific, political goals (e.g., “Abolish the Police”) are often short-sighted and lack regard for future strategy or the larger political-economic context. (And there is evidence of overwhelming rejection to the ideas of defunding police departments among African-Americans in general.)
    The same problems were present within BLM in 2014-2016. They should have been critiqued for very similar reasons then, too. Unfortunately, it was and is because the ideology motivating a lot of the participation and organizations is empty, anarchist, or at its core the ruling neoliberal ideology. (And these problems are not new: Bayard Rustin made similar critiques of “Black Power” in 1966.)
    The typical framing of “disparity” and “representation” by neoliberal antiracists, for example, serves really to privilege essentialist notions of race and gender and sexual orientation, while often raging against the unequal distribution of social “goods and bads” for these idealized groups (or “identities”). 
    That framing — plus many other aspects of the “woke” university jargon and neoliberal ideology — serves a double-function. First, it offends and alienates constituencies which might otherwise unite with the causes of ending police violence and more systemic issues like poverty, which are both sources of great consternation for many white working class people. (This is even to an extent true of the #BlackLivesMatter hashtag itself, though, of course, everyone should acknowledge that black people are “over-represented” in killings by about 2.5 times*, and a whole host of other discriminations and problems too.) 
    *No time for sources yet, but I'll add a few later.
    Secondly, it also normalizes capitalism and the elite’s power to shape the more general context of jobs, real estate, and government, contributing to the very problems BLM purports to want to solve. Neoliberal antiracists tend to dismiss this charge outright, as they claim to “always mention” the problems of “the system!” But simplistic concession is not enough; theoretical and especially pragmatic questions are critically important to real movement-building, as they have been throughout world history.
    In any case, for those wishing to make progress within the confines of this system, they would have to look at the greater context in which police violence occurs. There are some states in the US — and strikingly many of them in the Southern “Black Belt,”** where police killings of poor whites are often roughly equal to police killings of black people, even adjusted to their proportions in the society. Nearly all police killings (95%) occur in areas where the per-capita annual income is less than $50,000 (median income less than $25,000). Some of these areas have more crime. 
    ** Expanded from Adolph Reed's 2017 data by double-checking with other sources.
    These facts alone illustrate the problem with using “disparity” as an analytical lens. It also poses a positive practical question: Could this allow for a bridging of the gap between White and Black America on organizational lines? Is there something to be salvaged from the “All Lives Matter” retort so often dismissed as racist? 
    Put differently, would more effective movements be built if they were of the sort that organize around broad working-class constituencies and concrete questions? Building consensus as opposed to assuming pre-existing blocs? And can they move beyond “disruption” and gain power and effect change in the way the most influential Civil Rights leaders like MLK and Bayard Rustin envisioned? (It is a little discussed fact that the most pressure against civil rights leaders on a national scale began when MLK and others expanded their outreach to create broader coalitions.)
    The gut-level response of the neoliberal antiracists to this question has so often been a resounding “No!” 
    In fact, very often, these ideas are dismissed as somehow “implicitly racist” in themselves; very often they are slandered falsely as “class-reductionist.” Very often analogies to movements of the past are shouted down with “We’ve been there done that!” and sometimes even “Nonviolence is not the answer!” Serious concerns about the short-term consequences of rioting or the long-term evolution of anarchistic tendencies, concerns about supposedly “good” policy outcomes or tactics, are dismissed as “lacking empathy” for the causes or for “genocide” or “existential threats!” 
    Not only is none of this the case, I would argue, but these “counterarguments” and insistence on hyperbolic rhetoric are little more than masks for a race-essentialist, identitarian, neoliberal class politics. They are a “class reductionism” of their own! They constitute a politics whose practical consequence is the division and further subdivision of the working masses and the (smaller) middle class. And this politics is neatly aligned with a large section of the ruling class’s agenda and the agenda of their capitalist/imperialist lackeys in the Democratic Party. 
    So co-opting (by Democrats, so-called “anti-Trump” politicians, Hong Kong separatists, cops, the rich, etc.) is not only a “risk” movements of this kind face; it is a direct result of the kind of decentralization and class politics it espouses and represents. This is just an inevitable invitation to co-optation! 
    It is therefore predictable that almost the entirety of the media apparatus (both corporate news media and manipulated social media), including much of the elites that own and operate them, all show sympathy for or outright endorse these protests. Should this not be looked at with suspicion? 
    A significant section of the ruling class elite has for decades wished for diminishing the role of the State in education, services, and policing — precisely in favor of privatization and profit. The ruling class near-unanimously supports both the corruption and the dismantling of labor unions generally, a key factor in the disenfranchisement of people of color and the sharpening of inequality! Like it or not, the AFL-CIO (which has been attacked both rhetorically and now evidently a targeted burning of an AFL-CIO building during riots last week) and police unions (many of whom are people of color) are part of that picture too, issues of entrenchment and racism aside.  
    So initial solutions that might be effective would have to see any tactics and organizing within this broader context and have a strategically calculated, long-term vision. Anarchism (in the general sense I defined above) must be rooted out, as it is a pitfall of real organization. Dismantling a specific system like police militarization or mass incarceration is alright so long as there is unity on how to do it, what to replace it with, how to maintain that new order, and how to maintain momentum and accountability to the working class majority.
    Unfortunately, I do not yet see these features. Some good may yet come out of it, such as the punishment of officers involved in needless brutality and killing, many reforms at the state or municipal level, and a profound change in the bravery and political consciousness of our nation’s people. (Good only when limitations are understood and change can be effected without violence/suffering for others.) The same was said of the rise of BLM in 2014-2016. But the fear is that this will not result in any drastic change to the status quo nor will it build any strategic momentum. Indeed, many of the BLM leaders from 2014-2016 appear themselves to have been assassinated! I haven't looked far enough into this, but even "reputable" (traditional) national news sources have made this claim about Ferguson, Missouri BLM organizers.
    I believe the alternative implied by this critique is somewhat obvious, at least in broad outline. Attempts to effectively solve the most issues would need to start with wide, broader-spectrum, and centralized membership organizations accountable to the working class. They would need to start with a clear set of strategic, attainable policy goals with a vision toward building momentum. Unfortunately, there are deep-rooted oppositional forces and predictable reactions from the ruling class to be watched for, and defended against. So there should never be violence of course, although this is typical of ruling class reactions when cornered. But infiltration and sabotage and false flags are even trickier to watch for. They would need to bridge as many gaps as possible, rejecting essentialisms, rejecting the quasi-religious narratives of “Original Sin,” (not in a religious sense, but the idea of unrequited guilt over slavery, lynchings, civil rights abuses, etc.) rejecting hyperbolic or exclusionary rhetoric, and rejecting the politics of the PMC and the ruling class.
  23. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from César Chávez in Furuli's new book: Is any of it right? Useful? Like Franz?   
    Billy the Kid = CC goes on and on like a parrot saying the same things over and over, trying to convince himself that he is right.  And he drags it back a hundred years into the Bible Student era, which @Arauna is opposed to.  But then @Arauna  drags it back even further to the Sanhedrin.......... To prove what ?
    With all your burblings and pretence of a governing body in the first century, the truth is that it was the Apostle Paul that took the 'word' to the nations, AND it was the Apostle Paul that wrote the Letters to the Congregations. And he didn't go up to Jerusalem for the first THREE years of his ministry. So he was not influenced by any human 'governing body' at all. Paul received his direction directly from the resurrected Jesus Christ. 
    True servants of God do not want independence from God, they want to serve God through Christ. 
    So this stupid idea of 'you have to be a JW to serve God' is hogwash at the moment. Maybe in the future when that organisation is cleaned out then God through Christ may use it, but not right now. Maybe the GB are being examined by Christ, as Christ has the authority to judge them. Maybe Christ will replace the GB and clean the org' to make it clean and usable. 
    Arauna and others seems to think that the CCJW / GB / Watchtower 'created' the core scriptures and beliefs. Please don't be so puffed up, those scriptures were written long before the Org ever existed AND others believed those scriptures before. And even now others outside of the CCJW believe such things. I think @Space Merchant is proof of this point. So please don't pretend that only JWs have these beliefs.
     
     
  24. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    My Generation. 
     
  25. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from JW Insider in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    My Generation. 
     
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