Patiently waiting for Truth

My Generation. 
 

I'm glad 1914 and the generation do not really matter, because this is becoming a farce. 

CCJW.  Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the GREEK Scriptures.
Revelation 5 v 10.
From the Greek it reads ..... and they are reigning upon the earth.
But in the NWT it reads  ........ and they are to rule as kings over the earth.
In most translations I have looked at it reads as :  'on the earth'.   Why do the GB / Writing Dept translate it as Over the earth ? 

I am generation of communist era, and i am generation of post communist era. I am affected with feudalism. And capitalism too, because they invented private property and market economy philosophy. 
Oh no, private property and market economy draws its roots from "paganism". And all what have "pagan origins" are forbidden for Christians aka JW members. Well WTJWorg must reconsider their Legal Status, because of "pagan origins" of secular laws. :)) 
But i am also affected by US Civil war, and affected by volcano Vesuvius, especially after the 79 AD eruption. :))
All what was written (and we inform ourselves about it) about every events in the past and present make us to be "generation of that something". :))

I'm glad 1914 and the generation do not really matter, because this is becoming a farce. 

My older brother and I visited a house in service (in Missouri) in 1964 where a 104 year old man remembered the civil war and told us about how his relatives died, how two of their three slaves ran away, and how he remembers his father coming home from the fighting when he was about 5. We returned several times to offer him the magazines nearly up until the time he died in about 1966. 
I am so glad that I can say I am part of the U.S. Civil War generation.
You say I am stuck on the date 1914, when I should be stuck on the generation of 1914. But you also say that you understand my thinking because "neither do I accept 1914."
That inherent contradiction of yours says a lot to me. It says that the reason I don't accept that this generation is in large part because I don't accept 1914. The corollary, of course, is that the reason people accept the stretching of the generation to as much as 180 years, is because they accept 1914. In other words, this stretching of the definition is only true for people who accept 1914. If I accepted it, then whatever people say in support of it will always be true, even if it would otherwise be false. 😊
As you showed, the staggered generation is from some starting point and can go 90 years back and 90 years forward, for example, for a total of 180 years. Therefore those who discerned the sign in 1914 could have been born up to 90 years before, and lived to up to 90 years after. I have no problem with the 180 years of a staggered generation. The generation that discerned a sign in 1914 could run out as late as 2004 (or 1994 if they had to be at least 10 in 1914 to "discern," or 1989 if they had to be at least 15 in 1914 to be "anointed").
Also, tt was not me who said that the generation was about anointed persons who could discern the sign in 1914. Brother Splane was the one stuck on that 1914 date. By the way, I think it's revealing that Brother Splane didn't consider this new "generation" theory very seriously before presenting it. Otherwise he would not have used a scripture in Exodus that doesn't support his view, and he also would likely have noticed that his chart has a glaring error on it. It shows that "this generation" is passing away well before the great tribulation starts, when the entire point is that the great tribulation can't happen before this generation passes away. It depicts only anointed who are not part of group one or group two living at the time the great tribulation begins. To me, it's just a mistake, but it shows that he took his focus off the scripture that shows the exact opposite of what his chart depicts.
I believe 100 percent in the generation of 1914, and that it could represent as much as 180 years worth of a staggered generation. There were grandparents and great grandparents who could perceive the signs of war and pestilence during that WW1 period. Their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren who were also alive and growing up in 1914 could go on living for another 90 years or so, too. They can all legitimately be called a part of that generation, even though it's already a stretch to say that  "the generation" is still alive when 95 percent of it had already died before 1990.
This is why I mentioned the civil war generation above. You are part of the post WW2 generation, and you were also alive when persons saw the Civil War. Therefore if there were anointed brothers alive during the civil war, you are part of the Civil War generation too. You will probably claim that I am being ridiculous, but it is to help us think whether there is any point at which we would have balked at this explanation. If, by special mightiness, you are still alive in 2042 and the end has not come by then, does the existence of the FDS and the preaching work mean that you are still in the 1914 generation no matter what?
At what point in the future, if any, would the definition no longer be valid? 2033, 2042, 2050?

Apologize, this comments of yours are for @JW Insider I took liberty to say: WT and GB stuck on date and signs with generation issue. All 3 (three) components are strong part of WTJWorg 1 (one) doctrine.

I believe how this verses are for all of us, and GB too: 
Before God "small things" are of same importance as "big things".
Spiritual things always have more than one opinion. 
We are authorized to choose what we consider is the best for us.   
 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. - Luke
And Elijah came to all the people, and said, “How long will you falter between two opinions? - 1 Kings
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; - Deuteronomy
I suggests, recommends to people who thinking like you, please change your attitude :))  
 

How silly to reason this way. No other Christian religion understands the ransom sacrifice which is the CRUX for everlasting life.  If you believe in an immortal soul - then Jesus dit not really die and did not really pay for our sins.
Jesus only received immortality as a 'reward' for his faithfulness........... so it is silly to reject the importance of this CORE teaching of JWs........ just to name one teaching.
So to judge GB on some historical old and little  thing you  personally take issue with, is not wise ......when the CORE teachings are absolutely correct and  are crucial to get absolutely right for everlasting life.... Apparently you think you can cherry pick core teachings? And reject gods organization on something which you perceive/judge to be a minor misdemeanour?  

Confusing, isn't it!

The anointed are the new creation. (2 Cor 5:17; 1 Pet 1:23)They will reign on the earth as priests and kings, as well as have access to "heaven'.  That is why they are a "new creation", both human and angel.  (1 Cor 15:44)   God's word is reliable and this is backed up by the promise given to Jacob (Israel) and to his seed:
"Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran. 11 So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep. 12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
13 And behold, the Lord stood above it and said: “I am the Lord God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants. 14 Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed. 15 Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you.”
16 Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, “Surely the Lord is in this place, and I did not know it.” 17 And he was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven!”
If the priests are to teach the people (Mal 2:7), how can they do so if they are not among them?  The WT has devised a conception of the "144,000" as clones, men, with beards, looking down from heaven unable to enjoy their inheritance. To me, this is Satan making jest of God's new creation.   Since the WT has "trampled" the anointed as it is, why not fill every JW mind with as many lies as they can, about the role of the anointed?  Why not wipe away the individuality and personalities of His priests, not only now as an unrecognizable "nation" presently, but by creating a blasphemous picture of the 144,000 looking exactly the same -  in face, clothing and sex.  Sheesh.  They might as well be some sort of heavenly robot.  
Jesus also spoke of this ladder:
And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”   John 1:51
Mal 2:7 states that the priests are God's messengers.  "Angel" means messenger.  Those ascending and descending on this stairway, are part of  the Bride of Christ that "comes down from heaven" with Jesus, to rule/teach all of Gods children. 
Jesus returns to the earth with his "cloud" of witnesses - "Israel". The "great cloud of witnesses" are God's chosen witnesses - "Israel", not every JW in the organizaiton.  Mark 14:62; 13:26; Heb 12:1; Isa 43: 1,10;  Matt 24:30
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began.   Acts 3:19-21
who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”   Acts 1:11
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  Rev 21:2
He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.  Rev 3:12
The temple/New Jerusalem, made with "living stones", will be with mankind on earth.  They will also have their time in heaven.  So, "ascending and descending" between heaven and earth is necessary for God's kings/priests to serve Him, Jesus and God's children.  
We have been indoctrinated with a lie that supports the silencing of the anointed.  The earth presently is Satan's domain.  His enemy is Christ and Christ's brothers.  Why would he allow the truth about them inheriting the earth, to be revealed in the organization where we know the priests of God have been replaced by a large army of elders who have the authority to spiritually judge His chosen people?  (Joel chapter 2)
I'm trying to understand why you chose that scripture. 
"one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
God's spirit dwells in the anointed heart.  They are His "dwelling"/temple even while on the earth. (1 Cor 3:16,17) They are priests/kings, even while on earth. (1 Pet 2:5,9) God is naturally, "above" everything, in spirit, because He IS spirit.  John 4:24; Ps 139:7,8
 
 

Because it suits their ideology and also because the translators of the NWT werent scholars.

I think nearly everyone accepts that staggered generations exist. The staggered generation might even include people born more than 90 years earlier than the point identified (1914) and more than 90 years after the point identified (1914). I believe you might have even commented on a chart about a year ago that was included in a post to prove that we SHOULD accept "staggered generations" in the expression "this generation."
The problem is that you start out making claims about the generation of 1914, and say that there are 180 years worth of staggered generations from 90 years prior to 1914, and 90 years after 1914. That's fine. But you don't have the right to just move the starting point to around 1992 instead of 1914.
When you account for persons being 10 years of age to "discern" 1914, then the staggered generations, as you showed yourself, could range from perhaps 1814 to 1904 to 1994. (With variations depending on how old people need to be in 1914, or with a "proper" age of anointing.)
But the Watchtower doctrine uses some (unintentional?) sleight of hand to move that starting point of the staggered generations from around 1904 to around 1992. This way it can start an additional 90 years or so, beginning around 1992 or so and therefore it can for another 90 years or so from there (up to about 2082 if necessary). 1814 to 1904 to 1992/4 to 2082/4. This means that your staggered generations have been changed from a total of 180 years to 270 years. What's to stop them from being defined as 360 years, or more, if that ever became necessary. 1814 to 1904 to 1994 to 2084 to 2174, etc. (And we certainly hope it would not be necessary.)

This is a sincere question, and not just aimed at the folks here, but all jw's who have a dissenting view of the governing body and organization.
What will you do now that you have realized Jehovah God is not backing this governing body and thus the organization. Are you going to just sit idly by and continue to do what the governing body tells you to do, or comes up with more unbiblical doctrine? If that would be the case, you are still a partaker in the governing bodies sins by not denouncing their actions and continuing to go along with their flow. 
If Armageddon starts tomorrow and the governing body do not make it through it and into the new system, what about those who continue to follow them?

This dualism was visible in articles. I can recall i noticed this two sort of "spiritual food" (was not aware of it then as later), which appeared alternately in publications. Heating - cooling principle. A kind of psychological war within one's own ranks (by coincident or semi-purposely or even purposely ?).  
Although at the end of the comment you praise spiritual progress and "valuable core of teachings", I cannot accept that the methodology of achievement, for a few good things for which words of praise could be found, is bordering on partial or sometimes complete manipulation of people who doubt nothing.

I found an old discussion where Anna had wondered about the purpose of the "overlapping generation" if one could surmise that it didn't really make full sense, to most people. I found that the closest related "hints" to these types of changes, even if they turn out not to be true, is that they keep us on the watch, and they are used to invoke urgency.
But my own guess was not about the GB particularly. I was basing it on evidence that is still with us, but mostly from past evidence from the time that the "Service Department" was treated as a separate entity from the "Writing Department" and was allowed to make unfiltered use of any points about "urgency" to make sure that it translated into more hours, more return visits, more Bible studies, more literature placements, etc. From the old "Bulletin" to the old "Informant" to the more recent "Kingdom Ministry" one could see a very strong correlation between "urgency" and "activity." I have two letters I picked up while at Bethel from the Service Department to District and Circuit Overseers that were written during 1976, and one of them refers to "continuing the good work of building up urgency" in the form of "setting congregational goals" through meetings with the elders, and "emphasizing the closeness of the end of this system." I have seen several of these letters, but only kept a couple of them. In 1976 it didn't really occur to me what was going on, but by about 1978 I had noticed that the Service Department acted almost as a totally different organization. It was a works-based organization and it was not totally aligned with the Writing Department.
The Writing Department --and 5 or 6 of the GB at breakfast "morning worship"-- were speaking a lot more about undeserved kindness, and how our works are really not counted as anything, when done in comparison to anyone else, but that works are only a by-product of our love for Jehovah and our neighbors. Any works that are accomplished for a different purpose, such as comparison to others, hope for a greater reward from Jehovah or his organization, etc., were not worthy in Jehovah's eyes. We are not rewarded for our works.
Yet the Service Department still seemed to put out information like in older days when the idea was spelled out very clearly that we were to create a 10 percent increase in subscriptions, a 15 percent increase in publishers, a 10 percent increase in this or that. It was the Service Department that had "produced" and trained the District Overseers who might preach talks like: "Stay Alive 'Til '75!" But this was a time when publishers were not as aware of some specific goals anymore, because the Circuit Overseers were beginning to set "quiet" goals with the elders, and then check to see how well the elders were helping to guide toward those goals, by checking back every six months or so.
Now, there is much less emphasis on specific service goals, and literature placements are mixed with electronic placements, anyway. There is no more need to tie goals and campaigns to the printing needs of factory facilities to estimate new inventory or reduce stacks of old excess inventory. The last few decades have eliminated almost all of the "secular" business-like methods of running a printing organization, and this allows for a wider range of ministries that we can still consider 'sacred service.' It allows for a closer alignment between the Service and Writing departments. And there is a much closer alignment now between the GB and Writing.
I have a feeling, of course, that you are waiting to pounce on something I said or perhaps mis-worded above. But I believe this has resulted in more focus on "spiritual" qualities, especially in the last couple of decades. I'm disappointed in the GB's view of themselves and how this has resulted in what Furuli calls "veneration" (but not "idolizing") by the rank and file. And I'm disappointed in the typical compromises and lack of candor that is always associated with trying to act like we have special knowledge of the times and seasons. But outside of those areas, the attempt to lead us spiritually has been exceptional, worthy of imitation, and a very valuable core set of teachings remain. I know of no other religion that promotes such a valuable set of core teachings, like a pearl of great value, that we don't want to just hide in a field.

It seems barely possible that one could have been a JW for decades and later ask such a dopey question. It may be that the entire persona is a facade.
It reminds me of how all my life I had searched for truth. I knew I had finally found it when I learned that there really was a people who were cool on beards.
I don’t think so.

Yes, thanks for put this in focus. If exists Master who have nothing with material possessions and assets, that is Jesus. He was a Man who didn't care about money, real estate, diamonds and gold, position in society etc.
A Man who gave advice: "sell everything and follow me", must be someone who don't have ANY, NOTHING of material possessions in some secular or religious organization today on Earth.   
Once more time, once again WT and GB made wrong teaching on Matthew 24:47 by making a mixture of materialist-spiritual interpretation......  for their own benefit.
Jesus is Son of his Father who OWN and POSSES all earthly treasures. And They not need GB to collect and be in charge on things they already have. Neither today (or from 1919, 2013), nor in the some fictive future. 

I look forward to listening to this.  Knowing the "Master's Belongings" has nothing to do with earthly riches to begin with, shows up the organization as no different from any other organization in the world.
Christ's words make little impact on men seeking riches.  Luke 4:5-7
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”  Matt 6:19-21
 

@Arauna  I don't think I go back as far as Russell etc, but i do go back the 1960's. That is because it was when I was being taught the 'truth' by JW's. However the 'truth' that I was being taught turned out to be false. So I can base my findings on Facts because I know the situation. 
And that magazine from 1967 shows how false it was back then. 'The last day of the last days, in fact the last part of the last day' (Not an exact quote but near enough to make the point)
I do remember @JW Insider saying something like (and I know I will be told he didn't) 'The GB or leaders need to keep saying things to keep the congregants on their toes and keep them busy' (Not a direct quote but the idea is close enough) 
I would ask all JWs this. Is there a written list of CCJW core teachings, because it seems a phrase that is being 'banded about' here ? 
And I would love to see a written list of rules past and present too. Such as : No beards. Must wear a tie and jacket.  A brother and a sister should not spend time together when no one else is present. A brother and a sister are not allowed to stay the night in the same house. (but probably two brothers can or two sisters, because the GB don't want to think in that direction). 
As for the world wide preaching work. How many so called Christian religions are Earth wide ? Lots of them. How many of them produce their own Bible ? Quite a few of them. Back in the early 1960's there were Christian Union people that would do 'ministry work' around the streets here in England. What the CCJW do is not new. The Mormons were / are doing it too. IF the CCJW message in false then they are no better than the others. 
There is a scripture 2 Peter 3 v 4 :-
Berean Study Bible
“Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.”
BUT the JW Organisation made this promise in 1967 as I've written above. So that makes the Org guilty of stumbling people...... Have an honest think about it.
 

There is no spiritual paradise because the food is partially false. The congregations are dangerous places due to Child Sexual Abuse and other problems. There is actually disunity inside of congregations but the Elders try to keep it hidden. I do know that some JWs even take other JWs to 'worldly' courts here in England, one dispute ongoing now is over the ownership of a house that was inherited. And i also know of many cases of adultery and divorce. Woe to any man that enters a KH if he has a good looking wife. ( I am given information that of course i should not have ) 
Remember Jesus accused the Pharisees of washing the outside of the bowl or dish, to make it appear clean. That is what JWs do with the congregations. They tell the people to dress up smart and have clean cars, they keep the KHs looking tidy with neat gardens.  An outward appearance of being respectable and 'clean'. But not so spiritually. 

@Arauna  I don't think I go back as far as Russell etc, but i do go back the 1960's. That is because it was when I was being taught the 'truth' by JW's. However the 'truth' that I was being taught turned out to be false. So I can base my findings on Facts because I know the situation. 
And that magazine from 1967 shows how false it was back then. 'The last day of the last days, in fact the last part of the last day' (Not an exact quote but near enough to make the point)
I do remember @JW Insider saying something like (and I know I will be told he didn't) 'The GB or leaders need to keep saying things to keep the congregants on their toes and keep them busy' (Not a direct quote but the idea is close enough) 
I would ask all JWs this. Is there a written list of CCJW core teachings, because it seems a phrase that is being 'banded about' here ? 
And I would love to see a written list of rules past and present too. Such as : No beards. Must wear a tie and jacket.  A brother and a sister should not spend time together when no one else is present. A brother and a sister are not allowed to stay the night in the same house. (but probably two brothers can or two sisters, because the GB don't want to think in that direction). 
As for the world wide preaching work. How many so called Christian religions are Earth wide ? Lots of them. How many of them produce their own Bible ? Quite a few of them. Back in the early 1960's there were Christian Union people that would do 'ministry work' around the streets here in England. What the CCJW do is not new. The Mormons were / are doing it too. IF the CCJW message in false then they are no better than the others. 
There is a scripture 2 Peter 3 v 4 :-
Berean Study Bible
“Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.”
BUT the JW Organisation made this promise in 1967 as I've written above. So that makes the Org guilty of stumbling people...... Have an honest think about it.
 

I believe how this "guys stuck on the past" are wary, because they are not sure if they can trust an organization that has made false beliefs, doctrines in the past, and never show regret and apologize  to members, become reliable today ?!. 
How you can believe they are reliable today, when they changing doctrines and interpretations, instructions on an annual basis ?!

That is where you are wrong.  I study much world history  and philosophy and I also know the JW history. I do not need to be a scholar of what every witness said 100 years ago  to understand that jehovah is using this organization, flaws and all.
If the Organization wants to highlight a point it is ok with me but I find the current fulfillment of teaching and preaching and fulfillment of current events in prophecy much more edifying and strengthening.
I compare our core teachings  to what the world has to offer and see nothing better.....anywhere....  on top of the fulfillment of bible prophecy of the world-wide preaching work and giving timely and strengthening spiritual food to the world.
That is why you guys are stuck on the past - to try to dig up dirt.  You are like an old nagging woman - emotional and continually accusing her  husband over and over again of something he did 60 years ago. 

Not if he is part of  the "beloved" one, which he is.(Rev. 13:1,2).  The other one he would like to see removed... "decommissioned". (Rev. 13:11,12)  I see you missed that part in my post.🙂