Patiently waiting for Truth

You can judge that I thought it through too quickly, but I don't think it's true . I'm not saying that I ended up with the right answer, but I surely didn't think it through very quickly. I'm still thinking through it.
It's just a matter of perspective. I can just as easily judge that only those who finally gave in to a false definition of "generation" have been defeated. In fact, to be honest, I believe that Brother Splane was defeated by the perceived need to compromise with the earlier tradition that says we will still be in the generation of 1914 when the end comes, and he thinks there might still be a way to claim we were right, even after that generation has completely died out. 
Again, it sounds like you are judging that someone searches through old material for someone else to tell them what to think. It doesn't sound like anything I have ever done, but perhaps you think that it is?
Again, a matter of perspective. For myself, I have to be reasonable using my own powers of reason, not someone else's, even if they have searched through old material to try to tell me what to think. And I have to use sensibility to look at reality. For me, that reasonableness and reality just happens to provide evidence for a different solution. 
This is absolutely correct. Let's say that a man like Russell, for example, had made a prophecy in 1914, saying:
'As of 1914, the generation now alive at this time [THIS GENERATION] will see "Judgment Day" before this generation passes away completely.' 
It is very true that this means that even someone who was born in 1800 MIGHT see it, if "Judgment Day" arrived by 1915 and they lived to be 115. It is also very true of someone born in 1852, as Russell was, that they MIGHT also see it, if "Judgment Day" arrived by 1967 and they lived to be 115. It is also very true of someone born in 1904, that they MIGHT also see it, if "Judgment Day" arrived by 2019, and they lived to be 115. However, if Russell made this same prophecy in 1880, that THIS generation alive at that time will see judgment day before that generation passes away, then:
It is very true that this means that even someone who was born as early as 1766 MIGHT see it in 1881, assuming they lived to be 115.  It is also very true that this means that someone born in 1870 MIGHT see it as late as 1985, assuming they lived to be 115. So it's the same with Jesus. If he said that people in his audience who were part of that generation would live to see a judgement day in that generation, then:
If Jesus said this in 33 then it means that even someone who was born as early as 82 BCE MIGHT live to see that judgment day, assuming it happened the very next year, and they lived to be 115. If Jesus said this in 33 then it means that even someone who was born in 23 CE MIGHT live to see that judgment day, even if was delayed as late as 138 CE, assuming they lived to be 115. (But that person would see it by 70 CE, of course!) If you use your same logic for a generation alive in 1914, who had been born in 1904 so that they were about 10 years old, and could recognize the sign in that year. then we have the same thing. And if you think that people shouldn't have to live until 115 then your own point is more reasonable:
So if Russell made a prophecy anytime around 1904 that "Judgment Day" would arrive in the 1914 generation, then he would be right, as long as "Judgment Day" would have occurred before around 1980 at the latest. Some of that generation would still be alive around 1980.
But you can't stretch "this 1914 generation" much past that, using your reasoning above.

If you don't mind my different opinion. I would say how basic elements in message that JW's preaching; better new world, perfect life and health, no death, peace and security, Jesus and God etc. are something what almost all people want/wish.   
The system of repetition and persuasion of how to achieve all this, goes into our conscious and unconscious deep enough that we don’t feel the need to question anything that have source in new found religion. In fact, we self-censor ourselves and do not allow critical thinking. That is, the Organization has succeeded in instilling in its members the feeling that everything that is happening in terms of doctrine and technical implementation of learning does not even need to be re-examined. Only what comes from outside, the “worldly,” needs our utter caution and suspicion.
Deception imbued with elements of good and even true, creates in us an inability to think differently. Our mind is dulled. The mind is no longer sharp to discern fraud that growing within ourselves and danger of our confidence in the Organization. “Danger comes from outside” and “I am sinful and can't trust myself” - these are thoughts that obscure view about possibility and about very good chance how "the truth" is much else other but not really truthful. 
Why we stay so long in this mode and state and sometimes refuse to see obvious? Why we convince ourselves how "this must be the truth" when "truth" is not truth any more but another interpretation?
You and me and many similar to us are not in any intellectual shortcomings, but we were deceived.

Very well written. It does not matter if I agree with you or not. What matters is that you have made a personal effort to make a difference within the CCJW. Well done. Some of what you have written is beyond me as my brain / mind does not 'fully function' every day. (Some days I will not even drive as my mind is not up to it). I will of course read it again later to get more sense from it. 

Quote @Witness " It is ironic that the organization is referred to, as "the truth", in light of all of its falsehoods.   The "truth" can only apply to the Temple of God.  Again, I think of "Beliefs Clarified" which covers over falsehoods by glorifying them, as acceptable.  How deceitful. "
It is done to play on the mind of the weak. If you tell some people it is 'the truth' then they don't question it. Most JWs  are basic folk with very basic thinking ability. They either are not intelligent enough to think or cannot be bothered to think beyond what they are taught at the KH or conventions.  The CSA problem shows this, most JWs don't even know it exists. 
 

"But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. "  Gal 2:7-9
For the WT leadership to believe that this verifies proof of a governing body in Jerusalem, is self-gratifying, supporting their desire to build their "temple".  On the contrary, each apostle is a "pillar" of truth, supporting the foundation of the Temple of God.  
"These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; 15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."  1 Tim 3:14,15
"Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit."
Each anointed one sealed into God's Temple, also becomes a "pillar"..of truth.
"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name."  Rev 3:12
"But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."  Rev 21:27
It is ironic that the organization is referred to, as "the truth", in light of all of its falsehoods.   The "truth" can only apply to the Temple of God.  Again, I think of "Beliefs Clarified" which covers over falsehoods by glorifying them, as acceptable.  How deceitful.  
 
 
 
 
 

The Head of the anointed Body/Church, is Jesus Christ.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6
It is not possible for any "living stone" who are members of this Body, to speak a lie.  They are united under one Spirit.
"There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all."  1 Cor 12:4
"This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth." 1 John 5:6
"Sanctify them by Your truth.  Your word is truth."  John 17:17
The sealed "living stones" are all, pillars of truth.   (1 Pet 2:5)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

- obedient and submissive - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1989685
WTJWorg spreads teachings how members must doing exactly this before Elders and GB.
Paul said; NO, you DON'T HAVE TO be OBEDIENT AND SUBMISSIVE to human leaders in "Jerusalem" or in your congregation!
 

1 Thess 5:1-3

Well, he was pushed into a corner and had to borrow some old light.  That's the way the ball bounces.🙂

Very well written. It does not matter if I agree with you or not. What matters is that you have made a personal effort to make a difference within the CCJW. Well done. Some of what you have written is beyond me as my brain / mind does not 'fully function' every day. (Some days I will not even drive as my mind is not up to it). I will of course read it again later to get more sense from it. 

This would have been when they were teaching the 7,000 year Creative days. And the 6,000th year of God's Rest day.  And dare i say teaching 1975 as the coming Armageddon. 

This would have been when they were teaching the 7,000 year Creative days. And the 6,000th year of God's Rest day.  And dare i say teaching 1975 as the coming Armageddon. 

Now is come to be clear from where S. Lett borrow his words about final part of last days, or last days of last days, or ... :)) it doesn't matter.
It seems how S. Lett reads very old WT publications and than get some ideas for new light, clarification and so on :))

Sadly, they are put in a corner, over and over again.  This photo is spreading like wildfire.  Its  words were taught as FACT, as TRUTH.  It is amazing that truth can be viewed as a rubber ball bouncing high, then low, then high again, and in many different directions.
"You didn’t choose me, but I chose you and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should REMAIN; that whatever you will ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you."  John 15:16
One must ask, if the WT leaders have prayed for scriptural understanding, but produce fruit that rots, are they being deceived by a another spirit?  (1 John 4:1; 2 Cor 11:4)  Jesus didn't make false promises.  If he said the Father would give understanding to his disciples, we have full belief that He would...to those fully devoted to Him (and not to an organization built with wood and stone)
Be appalled, O heavens, at this;
    be shocked, be utterly desolate,
declares the Lord,
13 for My people have committed two evils:
they have forsaken Me,
    the fountain of living waters,
and hewed out cisterns for themselves,
    broken cisterns that can hold no water.  Jer 2:12,13
 
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/11/generation.html
 
 

This is err premise. Sorry.
What was built from the start (my start was in 1975) WT publication teaches how generation is 70-80 in length and is literally connected with the year 1914 as start point to be able to count when "signs" will culminate in Armageddon. 
Because of that JW's are/was put in "corner" with this. "Overlapping" invention is just try how to get out of the corner. 
 

I just had to send a new letter to the WT and I wanted to share that with you:
Hello Brothers and Sisters associated with the WT organization             6 June 2020
What's your thoughts about the lockdown? This seems to become a prolonged story. A week ago the Supreme Court of USA was in favor for continued restrictions against religious gatherings. But in the same time they allow the easing of restrictions in other spheres in the society. Many have commented that as discrimination against religion. Why is this happening? Is it not a cunning way to restrict faith based activities in the Western World where we otherwise have freedom of religion?
Could this be in fact a fulfillment of the divine prophecy about the 'removal of the constant feature'? Or at least the beginning of the 'removal of the constant feature'? Daniel 11:31; 12:11; 8:12
Because the public ministry and the public meetings have been removed? It is not so hard to do this connection.
Why is all this befalling the WT organization? You could pay attention to Daniel 8:12 which says: "And an army was given over, together with the constant feature, because of transgression;"
Apostle Peter adds in 1 Peter 4:17 "For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?"
Here we could draw a parallel to the exodus from Egypt. The Covid-19 has been like a plague. Many, especially old people have died. And the lockdowns have caused a tremendous economic problem. And the lockdowns have also caused a lot of emotional stress and frustration. 
Yes, this is like the first plague Egypt experienced before Israel's exodus.
And now we see a second sort of plague, the civil unrest in USA. Many commentators say this does not look good for the future. They expect things to get worse and they expect the government to become more totalitarian from this. Yes, the troops have been activated inside the USA. It won't be long before they come and profane Jehovah God's holy places, Jehovah's witnesses buildings dedicated to Jehovah God.
Because that has been foretold in connection to 'the removal of the constant feature'.
I quote: "And arms* will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature. “And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation."- Daniel 11:31
Do you understand what is "the sanctuary" and what is "the fortress"? 
And what was "the disgusting thing" Jesus referred to in connection to God's temple when Romans came to Jerusalem? Was it not Roman idols symbolizing the Roman empire? Hitler followed the pattern of the Roman Empire, putting everywhere Swastikas, even inside churches and he required that the Swastika would be worshiped, and it was a symbol of Hitler's Germany.
 
So the "disgusting thing" should following this pattern become a disgusting idol symbolizing a worldly power. That should be placed in the "sanctuary" and in the "fortress". 
There should soon happen because of this an attack from "arms" or "armies" against the headquarters of the WT organization. And a such "disgusting thing" will be placed there to profane it. 
There are talks to empower the G20, and they say this is the moment to do it. Because the world need a coordinated effort to fix the world's economic turmoil caused by Covid-19.
Until now the G20 has not had binding power over the world, but that is going to change. That is another rising world power the WT organization has failed to pay attention to and identify in the Revelation book. And according to G20, they need the power for 3 years to set up a new world wide financial system to work for the humanity. Seems like only after that UN can be empowered.
So what can be said about the civil unrest in USA? Could that be in fact the 'fatal wound'/"mortal wound"/"sword-stroke"? Revelation 13:3,12,14.
This could really be that because the symbolic "mortal wound" is associated to a battle against one of the heads of the seven headed beast in this context. Because after the mortal wound is healed the prophecy says: 
Revelation 13:3  "I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but its mortal wound had been healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 4  And they worshipped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshipped the wild beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?"
In view of the things going on in the world now, we could expect G20 to get a particular authority over all the earth. And if the civil unrest in USA now represents the 'fatal wound'/"mortal wound"/"sword-stroke", then we could very soon expect this to happen and all the other consequences foretold in God's word in Revelation 13 and Daniel 7, 8, 11 and 12 concerning the trampling down of the "sanctuary" and the removal of the "constant feature" and the putting in place the "disgusting" idol representing the emerging new global authority, the G20.
There is another prophecy that requires attention in this time. It is in Zechariah 11:8 and it says:
"And I dismissed three shepherds in one month, for I became impatient with them, and they detested me as well."
So, the future does not seem to be easy in view of the Covid-19 and the lockdowns and the civil unrest and the events foretold in God's word. 
The first century Christians fled Jerusalem and Judea about 3 and half years before their destructions. It is a model for us, especially for the great crowd. To be in safety during the final years before the attempt of Gog to attack and plunder us. Ezekiel 38. In fact the "woman's" flight to a wilderness is about this too. Revelation 12.
So, I ask you as did Joseph after he had explained the dreams Pharaoh had got from Jehovah God: "So now let Pharʹaoh look for a man who is discreet and wise and place him over the land of Egypt…….so that the land may not perish in the famine.” Genesis 41:33,36
Please, take this letter to the brothers responsible for the WT organization.

Your brother Jan Kosonen 
Email:xxxx
Mobile phone number:xxxx
Adress:xxxx





 

Of course. I agree that the Bible says nothing about 1919, NY, or the Governing Body. But it's a belief based on the supposed fulfillment of prophecies as these same persons understand the prophecies. I didn't respond to 4J because he had to turn this into a "lie" instead of an "interpretation." I agree, though, that the interpretation is so ingrained that they weren't careful with the wording at all. Also, as I've said before, just because Matthew 24:45 isn't a source that "prophesies" such a work as is taken on by the GB, it doesn't mean it isn't a "fine work." Or that it should not be appreciated. It's just that we have to be alert to always remember that all of us stumble many times, including the GB, so we should always do our Christian duty and test anything and everything they say, and if our consciences differ, to always obey God as ruler rather than men.

I made comment on WT article that @4Jah2me put in his comment, and of course on many other WT article that making statements how Jesus gave task of feeding only to 1919 small group of people inside WT.
Also, if we going into searching to whom specific words was addressed by Jesus, about feeding,i found only this specific verse that can be connected with "spiritual food". I must tell, also, how i am not reading Bible as many of you does regular or every day. This is from memory and than go to search where some verse is in the book. Because that, it can be how i missed some other verse which confirm other conclusion. 
In verses you offer it is notable how other people, not Jesus, encouraged fellow brothers and elders to be in service of helping/feeding people in congregations. Nothing wrong with that, of course. 
What is of concern is stubborn claims made by WT and GB how only few people inside JW Church are delegated/appointed, not by Peter or Paul, nor by Russel and Rutherford, but by JHVH and Jesus themselves, to be FDS Class. And much more - How no other individual, or group of people/elders, no one of Anointed as individual or group is/are allowed to do this feeding.
I agree how you are right in conclusion how "this verse not say that ONLY Peter should feed", and i hope you will agree how Jesus or any Bible verse not say how ONLY governing body in NY HQ should feed, too.  :))
Paul is example of individual, very much independent in actions and words. And he was not part of any sort of GB that is promoted today. 
 
@César Chávez put this interesting verse in comment:
 Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.” - Act 6
1st century brothers and sisters (anointed or not)  had spiritual ability to recognize who among Men are full of Spirit. I suppose how you need Spirit for doing this? Can we say they were "inspired"? At least for this particular moment and particular task?
History repeats. WT study magazine and TV Broadcasting doing same thing to JW people today.....with some other methods and words: Trust in Us because Jesus also trust in Us. If Jesus trust in Us, shouldn't you do the same?
Do not forget, Jesus not say that only (Peter) GB will feed people. GB ask people to trust ONLY to them because they claim how ONLY they have spiritual food to share. 
Where we are now?

Ah. So the real headline to be taken from the Rolf book, obscured by 50,000 wet dream malcontent internet  pages, is 
“Top Norwegian Awesome Scholar Proves that CSA Hysteria Against Jehovah’s Witnesses Is Bogus”
In writing this headline, I hesitated to use the word ‘proved.’ Had he really done that? But then I deferred to the words of the other scholar on this forum, 4Jah, who said of Rolf’s book (without reading it): “I think this gentleman and his book proves the point I'm making here.”
In fact, it ‘proves’ just the opposite.
In a roundabout way, Rolf brings his gift to the altar. Are legal machinations against the WT on account of how they viewed elders in the 1940s? Or are they about sensationalized investigations of CSA? Put Rolf on the stand as star ‘expert’ witness for the defense—after lauding him as Moses descending with the tablets, opposers can hardly say that he is delusional—and knock the legal ball out of the park.
In view of this service, compromise with Rolf. Appoint a panel to look at the GB’s doings. Get a few of the helpers. And, for balance, an impartial outsider or two like myself or @Arauna (you keep out of it JWI) We’ll have this ship righted again in no time.
 
 

BTW, a couple years ago I was given the power to move posts to other topics to keep topics better organized. But this is also the power to delete. I hate to delete anyone's posts but there are times when someone accidentally posts something twice and asks for one of them to be deleted. Also, even when I move something to another topic, it can be a brand new topic, and that topic can be temporarily hidden, which is pretty much the same as deleting if no one wants it back in the topic.
In this topic, I have moved a repeated topic by 4J to a hidden place because it was nearly an exact repeat of an earlier post, and also the post where he makes a point that it had been 9 hours and no one answered him yet, which caused a couple of responses that were unnecessary. If anyone insists, their posts can come back, but it's not necessary to repeat the same exact content in a discussion forum, nor to "harass" people in general for not responding as soon as one would like. If someone says they didn't see a post and wants to see it, there is a way to put a link to that exact post, or just tell them that it about 5 or so posts further up.
Don't think of this as any kind of warning or punishment, because I have nothing to do with that, but I thought that the repeated content it made it more difficult to read and respond to the topic.

I’d better bring up CSA before 4Jah soars to a font too large for the page.
Does he mention CSA? Ray thought it was an overblown concoction of media. What say Rolf?

Can somebody who has read this book tell us, does Furuli  give some thoughts about people who left WTJWorg?

Same old judgmental attitude......No, those who ' willingly' change by personal choice and are sincere in their brotherly love learn to  put up with imperfect brothers BUT those who change because they are told t, those are the ones who  become rebellious and become hate-mongers.....and call others dictators.  They never followed jehovah from free will in the first place. 

How can it be click bait, you klutz—there’s no place to click!

He does deal with that objection, claiming that the world's influence can be found just as easily anywhere and everywhere (school, work, vocational training, etc), and that pinning so much blame on higher education is unfounded. To him, higher education is a serious endeavor, and there are mostly serious schools where one can mostly focus on those endeavors. He also believes that the Society, and Witness families would have generally done a better job caring for one another if more had completed their studies to become nurses, IT professionals, etc. The idea that the time is too short to get this kind of education through college degrees has not proven correct, as it has now been 12 years since Losch told an audience that they should quit college even if they are nearing the end of their degree program, and that they will be accountable to Jehovah if they don't. 
His primary problem, he indicates, is that the negative information about higher education is skewed. It's a caricature of higher education, and Furuli thinks this shows that the GB, especially Splane and Losch, have no idea even what higher education really is. Also, he compares the balanced information of 1992 with the new, unbalanced "radical" information against higher education in 2005. He shows how all the sources were misused in that article, and criticizes the misuse of that information in talks since 2005. He compares his own experience against the counsel from the GB.