Patiently waiting for Truth

Especially if you have the self-appointed 'super righteous' to police their every move.  Remember how the pharisees policed jesus's every move to find fault....... and they did....... despite his perfection. How much easier with more imperfect mortals. 

Quote ..Because we don’t follow watchtower...no matter what others say....or try to infer on many of us here.
That is so funny. No more than a month ago I was talking with an Elder on the telephone and I asked him about his view on something. His reply was that he would have to go and do some research on it. I wanted HIS viewpoint, not the Org's viewpoint, but i do know that JWs are told not to give their own personal viewpoint on anything relating to the Bible or the Org.  (been there, done that)

It's a little bit like the way the Watch Tower publications used J.A.Bengel, above, completely out of context on his point about the Hebrews believing a generation was 75 years. First of all the statement was completely false. And his context was only that it fit the time from Jesus' birth to the year 70. If you read the entire reference, you can see that it's just as much about how Jesus' words would fit the period of 40 years from the year 30 to the year 70. And that it would fit the 75 year idea, too.
@JW Insider  This is what you wrote. So, you seem to be saying that the W/t took it completely out of context, and that the statement was completely false. Is my assumption correct ?
Now the Organisation / Watchtower / CCJW / GB are supposed to be 'spirit directed' is this correct ?
If you add what TTH said to what you said then I cannot see any direction of Holy Spirit at all. 
You and Tom really do seem to forget that you are talking about, what is supposed to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave, giving the proper food at the right time.
This organisation you belong to is supposed to be the 'one and only Truth', but it is full of un-truth as you keep telling us all so clearly. 
Another quote "but chronology is one of those things that we still carry on from traditions that go back nearly 150 years now. "
Traditions of men ?   Wasn't that a fault of the Jewish religious leaders ? 

Quote ..Because we don’t follow watchtower...no matter what others say....or try to infer on many of us here.
That is so funny. No more than a month ago I was talking with an Elder on the telephone and I asked him about his view on something. His reply was that he would have to go and do some research on it. I wanted HIS viewpoint, not the Org's viewpoint, but i do know that JWs are told not to give their own personal viewpoint on anything relating to the Bible or the Org.  (been there, done that)

I don't know where to begin.    Firstly, he mentioned "reinstatement" here:  
When this actually happen, we don't really know.  He said above, "I have come to the conclusion that logic and reason is not the end-all that I had aspired to, and that all things being considered, it would have been better for me to be "Brother Watchtower", than the man I have become."  
Perhaps since this reinstatement, he cannot fully accept the organization that you believe he should accept,  because he sees hypocrisy.  Anyone who can perceives this, has a conscience.  
One JW here that I am certain you well respect, stated once that Christ transcends the organization.  If Christ does, so does God; which means that "Jehovah's organization" is not salvation.  You fit the term "Brother Watchtower" to the tee, since you cannot see this.  As much as I care for you also, I see your blindness toward scriptural truth.  
Secondly, I am finding that many JWs have this agenda to personally ridicule anyone who rejects "organization" and brings out solid facts as to why.  They are not rejecting God or Jesus.  Your response in this regard is to ridicule the person and not the information they may provided. You can call me anything that comes to your mind, Tom. (and you have)  But, it really doesn't give you any ammunition of worth, unless you bring scriptural facts of the contrary, to the fore.  
One more thing, since I have your attention:
Don’t assume that I came to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to turn
a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and a man’s enemies will be
the members of his household.
37 The one who loves a father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; the one who loves a son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever doesn’t take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Anyone who finds his life will lose it, and anyone who loses his life because of me will find it.  Matt 10:34-39

Yes @Space Merchant I do realise that Jesus has all authority and power given to him and that he leads God's people by the use of Holy Spirit.  
The point i was making was that a person does not need to be guided by the CCJW or Watchtower or their GB.  I think in part you would agree with this ? You yourself are not a JW but you feel you have a close relationship with God through Christ. 
Mr Harley seems to feel that a person has to be a JW and work inline with that organisation to be able to serve God. 
@TrueTomHarley  I've noticed that you have changed your comment.  

@TrueTomHarley   He lost all his kids—none will speak with him. And for what? So as to spread every opposition taunt and insult about the earthly organization that Witness and 4Jah and Srecko and Shiwiiiiiiiiiiiiiii and Matthew4 5784 are perfectly content and capable to spread?  That is worth losing your family for?
You are a writer, and like many writers you write in riddles. But the gist of the above is that James spread every opposition taunt and insult about the earthly organization that Witness and 4Jah and Srecko and Shiwiiiiiiiiiiiiiii and Matthew4 5784 are perfectly content and capable to spread? 
James spoke truth. He didn't shy away from it. And if his children turned away from him for his speaking truth, then his children are at fault, not James. 
And if you are still so spiritually immature that you need to be 'bottle fed' by your GB, and if you are brainwashed into believing that the CCJW have God's approval, then you seriously have a problem for yourself. 
Its a good job the disciples didn't feel that they still needed to be bottle fed by the Scribes and the Pharisees after Jesus was no longer on Earth. After Jesus had been resurrected to heaven the disciples had no leader on earth. They relied on being guided from above, by Holy Spirit. 

Yes @Space Merchant I do realise that Jesus has all authority and power given to him and that he leads God's people by the use of Holy Spirit.  
The point i was making was that a person does not need to be guided by the CCJW or Watchtower or their GB.  I think in part you would agree with this ? You yourself are not a JW but you feel you have a close relationship with God through Christ. 
Mr Harley seems to feel that a person has to be a JW and work inline with that organisation to be able to serve God. 
@TrueTomHarley  I've noticed that you have changed your comment.  

Yes @Space Merchant I do realise that Jesus has all authority and power given to him and that he leads God's people by the use of Holy Spirit.  
The point i was making was that a person does not need to be guided by the CCJW or Watchtower or their GB.  I think in part you would agree with this ? You yourself are not a JW but you feel you have a close relationship with God through Christ. 
Mr Harley seems to feel that a person has to be a JW and work inline with that organisation to be able to serve God. 
@TrueTomHarley  I've noticed that you have changed your comment.  

@TrueTomHarley   He lost all his kids—none will speak with him. And for what? So as to spread every opposition taunt and insult about the earthly organization that Witness and 4Jah and Srecko and Shiwiiiiiiiiiiiiiii and Matthew4 5784 are perfectly content and capable to spread?  That is worth losing your family for?
You are a writer, and like many writers you write in riddles. But the gist of the above is that James spread every opposition taunt and insult about the earthly organization that Witness and 4Jah and Srecko and Shiwiiiiiiiiiiiiiii and Matthew4 5784 are perfectly content and capable to spread? 
James spoke truth. He didn't shy away from it. And if his children turned away from him for his speaking truth, then his children are at fault, not James. 
And if you are still so spiritually immature that you need to be 'bottle fed' by your GB, and if you are brainwashed into believing that the CCJW have God's approval, then you seriously have a problem for yourself. 
Its a good job the disciples didn't feel that they still needed to be bottle fed by the Scribes and the Pharisees after Jesus was no longer on Earth. After Jesus had been resurrected to heaven the disciples had no leader on earth. They relied on being guided from above, by Holy Spirit. 

Yes, and that is real danger. Because we can never be sure about ...

Rook has done it before. He's part of the family pretty much.

He made it all public previously.
These are your words, not mine. I am not casting him anywhere. I am very glad to see he re-evaluating some choices he has made so that Nobody Else does.
I do. He doesn’t buy into your claptrap that you can remain close to Jehovah while being at serious odds with his earthly organization. Thinking hit the nail on the head—he is REAL. If you are bringing your gift to the altar and you recall that your brother has something against you due to the outrageous things you have said, first make peace with your brother, and then offer up your gift. I imagine that this is what he is doing now.
 

@4Jah2me And So I saith to thee, Give me a direct """"quote""""" of them stating Armageddon will happen in 1975?
Example: Frosted Flakes, random I know, but proving a point. The slogan of this cereal brand is "They're Great!" and their mascot is an anthropomorphic humanoid tiger named Tony. Who said the quote directly as stated? Tony the Tiger.

Now, all you did was post a picture of an article (haven't you read it), of which was posted several times over on this forum, and debunked. For further detail, to make a claim that they said 1975 was indeed God's Day was to occur, I do not see what is stopping you from quoting said claim, in this case, the name of the person who said it and where it took place.
I got another example for you "Beauty is in the Eyes of the Beholder" who said it? Margaret Wolfe Hungerford.
Other than that, the way I see it, a strong sermon often tends to make people speculate, and jump to conclusions, as noted last time. I think someone stated something before as projected, but the claims out there that say otherwise does not hold enough water.
I will note your response because I do not want another Glasgow (Srecko knows, and he was sorry for it) to happen:
 
That being said, relating to the topic at hand, as we speak, if something of someone is in use, especially without permission and or improperly, they have the right to take action.
 
EDIT: Thank you for proving me point, again. Now - Your claim would be a strong one, if they had indeed made the claim. The only thing in that article of yours that I am somewhat not easy with is the King James Version of the Bible, nothing more.
As I pointed out, before your arrival, we had spoken about this before, that is why I mentioned Rook, JWInsider and the others, regarding the subject, this is one of several threads for 1975.
 

Quote TTH 
This is always the case in any paper about anything. Everyone selects point of support. Nobody selects points that undermine their premise. I see no reason to spin it as though it were some sort of conspiracy. There is scarcely anyone who does not do it.
BUT the CCJW & W/t,  say they are NO PART OF THE WORLD.  That is supposed to be the BIG difference. 
Tom is just showing that they are really no different to any other religion or organisation in this world.. 

I quote you @Space Merchant  " Christians today, who are prophets, of any kind are not inspired and are not infallible and such makes up the majority of Non-Trinitarians today, even to our counterparts who are the Jehovah's Witnesses. Us Christians are Spirit led prophets, the ability to spread the gospel truth and the truth about the Messianic Age, for this is something of which he both have in common. "
 
Well here are the 'uninspired prophets' of the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses :-
 
Jehovah's Witnesses[edit]
Main article: Unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions Charles Taze Russell, the first president of the Watch Tower Society, calculated 1874 as the year of Christ's Second Coming, and taught that Christ was invisibly present and ruling from the heavens since that year.[13][14][15][16] Russell proclaimed Christ's invisible return in 1874,[17] the resurrection of the saints in 1875,[18] and predicted the end of the "harvest" and the Rapture of the saints to heaven for 1878,[19] and the final end of "the day of wrath" in 1914.[20] 1874 was considered the end of 6,000 years of human history and the beginning of judgment by Christ.[21] A 1917 Watch Tower Society publication predicted that in 1918, God would begin to destroy churches and millions of their members.[22]
J.F. Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president of the Watch Tower Society, predicted that the Millennium would begin in 1925, and that biblical figures such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David would be resurrected as "princes". The Watch Tower Society bought property and built a house, Beth Sarim, in California for their return.[23]
From 1966, statements in Jehovah's Witness publications raised strong expectations that Armageddon could arrive in 1975. In 1974 Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system" in full-time preaching.[24] In 1976 The Watchtower advised those who had been "disappointed" by unfulfilled expectations for 1975 to adjust their viewpoint because that understanding was "based on wrong premises".[25] Four years later, the Watch Tower Society admitted its responsibility in building up hope regarding 1975.[26]
Do you think they were guided by God's Holy Spirit ?
Deuteronomy 18 v 20 through 22.
20  “‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.a 21  However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22  When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’
And do you think the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are now guided by God's Holy Spirit ?
Matthew 24 v 24 
 For false Christs and false prophetsa will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead,b if possible, even the chosen ones
Anyone that understands God's written word can preach the 'Good news of God's Kingdom' but to put a date or time on it is 'going beyond the things written'. And if a person should be of the Anointed heavenly calling then i would think by doing so they would be sinning against the spirit. 

I sincerely hope he doesn't change.
I've enjoyed his brutal truth throughout the years. 
Courage is not something that needs changing.
I hope you are ok @James Thomas Rook Jr.
 
 

@Space Merchant
i.e. said claim of yours stated that they said Armageddon would happen on 1975, but there was no claim made by them to suggest such, anywhere.
 
could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them." 
Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

@Space Merchant  I am not frightened to mention you by name, why should I be ?
It was more the use of sarcasm not to mention your name, and look it got a reaction .
I tend to disagree with most things you say, but I laugh too, because you try so hard to come across as someone who is superior. 
I know for myself that i am an individual. It matter not to me if you and others feel the need to add me to some 'make believe' 'collective'. 
I did quite like this bit though :-
A more in-depth definition is: A governing body is a group of people that has the authority to exercise governance over an organization or political entity. The most formal is a government, a body whose sole responsibility and authority is to make binding decisions in a given geopolitical system (such as a state) by establishing laws.
Now here in the UK the ruling Government has an opposition party. I know very little about politics but I do know there are two 'houses', the House of Lords and the House of Commons. So there is debate and questioning.  Also the people of the UK can vote for a different government every 5 years. And, parliament can be dissolved in some cases.  
However the Governing Body of CCJW  rules over millions of people without debate and questioning. Those 8 men that has the authority to exercise governance, and are a body whose sole responsibility and authority is to make binding decisions,  cannot be removed, according to some JWs on this forum. 
They have given themselves the title 'Faithful and Discreet Slave', and they cannot be disfellowshipped by other JWs.  
But you seem to think that is ok, however you do not want to become a JW .
I totally disagree with most of what you say SM, but. Have a good day. 
 

@Space Merchant  You write a lot and basically say nothing. So many people on here do that. 
As for copyright laws, they do not interest me because my point wasn't, do they have the legal right, my point was that Jesus said, recorded at Matthew 5 V 39 
However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 
Basically Jesus said 'Just let it go by'.  
However, the GB and their Lawyers are just looking to create diversion, to take people's eyes away from all the Child Sexual Abuse accusations and court cases. 
And regarding the GB calling themselves the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave', you do know that in the past ALL the remaining ones of the Anointed were known as the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave'. So who gave the GB the right to change it ?  Remember that the GB admit to NOT being inspired by God's Holy Spirit.  But some how they WERE 'inspired' to exalt themselves above their Fellow Slaves. Hence showing themselves to be the wicked slave. 
But of course you will not agree with me.
 

@Space Merchant
i.e. said claim of yours stated that they said Armageddon would happen on 1975, but there was no claim made by them to suggest such, anywhere.
 
could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them." 
Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

@Space Merchant Like I've said before you will always disagree with me just for the sake of trying to look superior. I hope it brings you joy. It certainly gives me something to laugh at. 
And if I write that the CCJW / GB say that a person 'must be a baptised Jehovah's Witness to gain salvation', will you disagree with this too ? 
And are you saying that any Non Trinitarian Christian can gain salvation no matter what religion they are, or even if they have no denomination ?  Now that would be in disagreement with the JW GB.
Quote "Also your claims from before, you can at least attempt to prove them instead of shying away from them, I see you laughed, but cannot bite, as usual "
When I show you truth you are too blind to see it so there is no point. You only believe what you want to believe, and you THINK you know better than me or others.
I was right about the Governing Body exalting themselves above their 'Fellow Slaves' as in the parable. But you won't agree with me. For that GB to suddenly decide only they, those 8 men, are the Faithful slave and for them to assume the others of the Anointed are NOT the Faithful Salve, shows the GB up to be the wicked slave. 
However like I say, you wish to convey yourself as knowing more than others, so there is little point in talking directly to you. In fact I tend now to use my comments to communicate with others even if I do link your name to them. 
 

The irony of it all, it was your sources that let me to the articles. If you haven't noticed, anything related to Wikipedia, at the very bottom there are citations and notes, when you search for said citations, it takes you to a number of books and or articles.
Therefore, I was agreeing with the cited sources of which you proved, it was not by my own hand. If it was not for your Wikipedia quotes, I may not have been able to find more information, such as The Jubilee Year.
I don't appear to be superior, not at all. That is why it can be said, when I told you to prove it, you failed a number of times. Someone doing research and finding the truth of the matter does not mean they are superior, it means they put in the time to do the work.
This was discussed at least 4-5 times on prior, with JWInsider, Anna, and a number of others, including me weighing in on this. All of us, have pointed out what the Jehovah's Witnesses stated, moreover, what the meaning of Salvation is. Therefore, all that would need to be done is link the thread in question to prove said point.
No. If I recall, I haven't uttered salvation at all on this thread in particular. I have elsewhere, and also stressed elsewhere that Salvation can be lost and or gained (regained).
Clearly, you do not understand what was conveyed. Of course, Non-Trinitarians understand what it means to gain/lose salvation, you are responding to one - @Space Merchant. Other denominations, however, who most are not Anti-Trinitarian, state otherwise, for if one is saved, they can never lose salvation, which, if we go to the Bible, does not make sense, not to mention the verse we see in Jude.
How so?
Made made claims which you cannot be proven, I even invited you to prove them, which you had failed. Regarding a Prophet Inspired and Not Inspired, the Bible itself offers more proven than you assuming. You even alluded to my point, which thus makes it correct.
If you go back to your comment, you made 2 claims regarding me, not the JWs. I told you to prove it, you haven't, this was the same end result as our first discussion.
If the Bible speaks truth on what an inspired/no inspired prophet is, why do you say it is wrong? If I agree with the Bible, and you disagree, where does that leave you?
I agree with the following verses, therefore, because of this, and your claim, it shows you are in error [Matthew 24:14, Luke 4:18, Acts 2:18, 19 and Romans 12:6-8] - you have a Bible, do you not? Read these verses, or simply read my refute response to Witness, of which I quoted a few comments up.
Do you even understand the Parable of the Faithful Servant? As anyone can see, you've added your own assertions, every notion I pointed out in regards to this Parable is correct, especially when it comes to the flock and spiritual food.
It is not that I agree with you, it is the fact you are going upon your own understanding, and not actually looking into Scripture to convey the truth of the matter. If I had not mentioned the Parable, you'd include something vastly different regarding what A Faithful Servant is.
I suggest you re-read the below. The Bible holds more truth vs. mere assumption and or understanding.
Again, MAN cannot assume such. When it comes to Chosen Ones, those that are chosen is between God and that individual. To make such a statement there is hell to pay in regards to the White Throne. Reasons why a majority of us Christians are neutral when it comes to this is for not wanting to beget a costly mistake.
That being said, be it that they are or not, if I recall, among their community, it is said they have a number of chosen ones among them, it is not soley 8 religous leaders.
 
Because I do research it irks you this much? If you did not know something and I pointed it out, you consider this being all knowing and superior? A mere rendering buttered your biscuit in this regard and if I point that out being knowledgeable is deemed a threat to you? You are beginning to remind me of Srecko now with the Donkey, Abraham and Glasgow discussions of the past (and it is for good reason I bring up reminders of old discussions, should specific points be made again).
Also, if I recall, you were the one who brought all this put, as I tell many here, a do a response to a response, nothing more.
That being said, you ignore what is true to fit the information you wish to convey, likewise with the Bible, you have little to no understanding of what a prophet inspired is and or not inspired, thinking that someone who is not inspired cannot grasp the holy spirit, when the Bible says otherwise. You cannot fool anyone, and it is no surprise you walked right into it by making these claims, not to mention you were the one to link the Wikipedia, somehow you do not agree with the very source which you linked. Perhaps next time remember this: If you are going to use a wiki, make sure the citations are NOT against your claims, otherwise, it can only prove to engineer your own err at the end of the day, i.e. said claim of yours stated that they said Armageddon would happen on 1975, but there was no claim made by them to suggest such, anywhere.
Other than that, regardless, as for the topic at hand, although there is some level ground, however when this go beyong that, it is their information, they can do as they please with said information, for it originated from them and is provided by them, produced by them and shared by them, in terms of law and the like, it is for them, even outside of that, this goes for ALL entities, institutions, and the like. 

As far as I know (I do not know the exact history and origin of such a calculation) a period of one year or 12 months is the framework for measuring the term - generation. So, all persons born within those 12 months of a given year can be considered to be one (1) generation. Every person born after December 31st in a given year, becomes part of some other generation from the following year with the date of January 1. This is a normal and common understanding of the term generation. And it works still today between people with normal, common sense. :))) 
Everything else one wants to add as an explanation for the purpose of defending the idea of GB about the "overlapping generation" is nothing but religious entanglements that should support a failed organized-religious concept of a failed ideology that is still alive in WTJWorg.
Most here have finished high school. When you graduated, what generation of graduates were you? What generation of graduates do you still belong to today? To my generation, was born in 1961? Or my father generation who was born in 1923? ............. Or you belong to both (triple) generations of graduates in the same time because you were born in 1949? 

True. And that Revelation book was written at the same time as the 1989 article when a lot of these "hints" of world disaster from outsiders were highly prized. I think that change you mentioned was made around 2006. But it reminds me that the Society put out a new edition of the "Truth" book in 1981 even though we never did much with it. The time for the original "Truth" book (1968) had already passed, and this update was well nigh ignored compared to the original. And the edits were all focused on getting rid of the quotes from scientists or authors who had directly or indirectly pointed to 1975. (But replacing them with just enough space to replace only those parts so that most of the pages could be reprinted without redoing the pagination of whole book.)
So it's a matter of just how many selective quotes were selected from those "some scientists."  After a while the purpose of those quotes tells more about the selector than the scientists, especially because we could have found just as many or more who believed that science would resolve life-threatening problems.
Back when we believed it was important to remind people that man had been on the earth for 6,000 years, the publications even looked for quotes that dropped that hint, and then italics might even be added to make sure readers noticed the reference to "6,000 years." Here's one from 1975:
*** g75 8/22 p. 20 Is the Industrial Way of Life a Failure? ***
Psychoanalyst Erich Fromm declares that the current sicknesses of industrial society can be dealt with “only if the whole system as it has existed during the last 6000 years of history can be replaced by a fundamentally different one.” [Italics ours]
Fromm saw no particular significance in the number 6,000. But we certainly did.
It's a little bit like the way the Watch Tower publications used J.A.Bengel, above, completely out of context on his point about the Hebrews believing a generation was 75 years. First of all the statement was completely false. And his context was only that it fit the time from Jesus' birth to the year 70. If you read the entire reference, you can see that it's just as much about how Jesus' words would fit the period of 40 years from the year 30 to the year 70. And that it would fit the 75 year idea, too.

The idea of 75 years, supposedly found in the Seder Olam, was not there in the original Seder Olam (Rabbah) from the year 169 CE. It's not even in the most expanded version of the Seder Olam (Zutta) from 804 CE. (I took the picture from his 1862 version of his work on New Testament words. The 1877 version had changed Hebrews to Jews, but still contained false information about the supposed 75 years:

The footnote (2) in the above is not about the 75 years but about how in the 40 years leading up to Jerusalem's destruction in 70, that there were earthquakes and famines and pestilence and war, just as Jesus had predicted.
I point this out because it shows how easy it is to start selecting specialists and scholars (even if one needs to go back to 1862) to find a "fact" that isn't even a "fact" to support chronology. It seems important to me, because of the potential for doing this all over again with 2034 or the "devil in the details" behind Splane's chart.