Patiently waiting for Truth

I guess how "spirituality" has nothing with organized religion, or in other words, individual not necessary need to be under The System of religious Doctrines and Hierarchy to gain spirituality and to please god.
Also, many individuals have some gifts to be "spiritual leaders", or "political leaders" or "leaders" in some sport team or on construction ground while making building or in some project for new toaster or phone. 
I don't denying your's or anyone else "right" to take role of "religious leaders". If GB or WT elders have need to be "leaders" or in role as instruments, tools for implementing decisions of decision makers. What i have is right to put in question your position, or position of your "religious leaders". And to give some observation about structure and policy in such "religious arrangement". 
With comparing "religious authorities" aka GB with "secular authorities" i put, for public conversation, question: who is on higher position? GB or Secular Authorities? Who of these two group, JW members need to obey more? 
I suggest not to respond with general neutral answer: "We must obey god more than men", because that would mean and would clearly point to next level: JW members are NOT Obligated to obey WTJWorg GB doctrines and instructions. Because of same reasons revealed in primary answer made by Peter. Many ex-JW and many of existing JW's are aware of wrong doctrines and policies and instructions made by their leaders. Question for such JW members is "Who do they obey more?".
If JW members are not obligated to submit and obey every (non) "inspired utterance" from GB mouth why JW's members have problem to openly talk about it in private or little groups or on congregational meetings? Why they have fear from men and not from god? That is fundamental question here. JW's are not in fear if they go to prison because of "bible principles". How come to that that they have fear of that they will be dfd because of "things" and "bible principles" which are undoubtedly in sphere of "individual spirituality" and conscience, about so many err and wrong doctrines they have to obey and preach to other people? 
If you are ready to promote any sort of disobedience to "secular authorities" because of religious arguments, than you have to be ready to promote same sort of disobedience to "religious authorities and leaders" in own Church, because of same reason. 
 
 

I disagree here. Take a look into the account of how Moses was brought forth. ALL first born males at that time were to be killed ( Exodus 1:16-22). This was to prevent the Israelite nation from overtaking the Egyptians. Moses was chosen long before he was a murderer, from before the womb. The same cannot be said of the past gb members, nor the current ones.  So assimilating Moses to the gb is not only false, but wishful thinking on both the part of jws and the gb themselves. 
 
I agree here with what you have said, but it doesn't matter much because I do not assimilate Moses to the gb. To answer your question, no I have never felt the gb have beaten me, as they are not above me and have NO authority over me, they are men just as I am. 
 
This leadership was dissolved with the coming of Jesus, as stated in 1 Timothy 2:5.
I think here we are agreeing to what I stated above, but not completely. 
just as any good father would do. We too are disciplined just as.
oh yes, and as I stated above, our leader is Jesus, not Moses, not some self appointed gb, not anyone else. Agreed, God knows exactly what He is doing, thus the reason why He abolished that sort of religious headship and brought us closer individually.
 
 
 

Moses – a prophet appointed as spokesperson for God. 
“Then the Lord said to him, ‘Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground. 34 I have indeed seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their groaning and have come down to set them free. Now come, I will send you back to Egypt.’35 “This is the same Moses they had rejected with the words, ‘Who made you ruler and judge?’ He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush. 36 He led them out of Egypt and performed wonders and signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and for forty years in the wilderness.”  Acts 7:36,37
The Pharisees – They were not prophets but sat in Moses’ seat, yet were condemned by Jesus because of their lies, their burdens put on the people, and their additional laws and decrees not sanctioned by God.
 
Jesus Christ – a prophet, the King of righteousness, the Son of God. 
 
37 “This is the Moses who told the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your own people.’ 38 He was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our ancestors; and he received living words to pass on to us.”  Acts 7:37,38
Where does the Governing Body fit in? Are they “like” Moses?  Or, would that be Jesus Christ?  The GB fit in in as the modern-day Pharisees, who add to the scriptures with their additional laws and decrees, their false teachings and burdens put upon the people. 
You not only seem to make light of the role of Moses as an aggravating personality,  but you have put GB in the seat of Moses, when God has already given us Jesus Christ – “a prophet” like Moses. 
A follower of Jesus would not tolerate any lies that  may be called "truth", from any leader. Matt 7:15-20; 2 Thess 2:9-12
 How did the GB decide they were the “faithful and discreet slave”/house “steward”?  Were they appointed by Jesus Christ?
 “However, further careful study and prayerful meditation indicate that our understanding of Jesus’ words about the faithful and discreet slave needs to be clarified.” W 13/7/15  pp 20-25
“clarified”…which was added to the long list of “Beliefs Clarified”; all requiring careful study and prayerful meditation.  How many flip-flops of just one doctrine on that list required changing over the years, but during its heyday was called "truth"?  How many people were held reliable to upholding a facade called "truth"?  
These men are not prophets, and not inspired. Yet, this “careful study and prayerful meditation” somehow led to a most definite appointment by Jesus Christ without any involvement of inspiration; which Moses most definitely received from God during his entire assignment.    
“Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’  Acts 3:17-23
 
 
 
 

How does this make any sense to average jws? 
............................
Try not to underestimate the Average JWs....many have and are working things out...but they are also working out some things that others here are not...
the thing you have to remember....is Jehovah  will and always has disciplined his chosen men in authority over his people...
1) Moses ...he was a murderer before he was ever given his assignment....and at nearing the end of their journey...due to such a heavy load upon him and stresses that none of us could bear...he actually became self righteous and proud..and I am imagining that attitude  would not have happened over night or just when he walked and stood before the Rock..
all Jehovah told Moses To do was to SPEAK to the rock...but no...Moses first yelled abuse at the people.( I dont really blame him but he was not ordered to do that ) 
he had no right to do that.
And  Moses becoming full of himself and his importance ( pride ) he felt HE had to do MORE than what was asked of him.
He struck the rock ..not once...but his personal decision and leaning on his own Underderstanding and reasonings...he struck TWICE..because he deemed the stupid people needed that..( do you or have you ever felt that the GB have beaten you with their rod ) ...and then he gathered the miracle to himself by saying ..
SHALL WE....As we all know it had nothing to do with him..but everything to do with Jehovah...( he took the glory to himself and ignored Jehovah )
 
now we all know he was disciplined very harshly later for that but what most miss...and this is a very important point...is Jehovah still expected the People to follow his instructions that he gave to Moses.....he STILL USED the about to be disciplined Moses....and he EXPECTED the people to follow those instructions ...because they never came from Moses but Him.
yes Jehovah allowed Mosses to sin...as he did Aaron...as he did King David...and countless others he used.........because there is no human that can rule over or govern his people on this earth..and he knew that all along...he knew whoever takes authoritarian position over his gathered   people will commit such grave errors..
yet he still expected the people to stay together......but he expects us to work these things out...to reason on why he allows these things...
Moses didn’t trust Jehovah enough to just speak...
Jehovahs approach was much more gentle and kind to the Israelites ...take your rod, assemble the people and speak to the rock.
Moses was rather bombastic Prideful and harsh and he did it His way...
Numbers 20:24
Because you rebelled against MY Command at the waters of Meribah you will not enter into the land for which I have given to the sons of Israel.
Imagine that....calling and accusing Moses and Aaron of being Rebels
and yet it was Moses and Aaron who accused the people of being rebels ...
Numbers 20:10
.....hear now YOU REBELS
the point being is Jehovah will always discipline those he allows authority and those who claim to have it....
yet he still loved Moses very much and even after death..Jesus safeguarded his bones ....
Until MOSES death he still expected the people to follow his instructions...as his job was still yet to be completed....nobody fled the camp after Moses verbal abuse of them or harsh display of frustration and piety....they stayed...and trusted Jehovah..to handle the situation..
so too today...we must trust that Jehovah knows what he is doing...
Soon we will cross over Into that New Land....and as Joshua/ typifying Jesus led the people..into the land flowing with milk and honey........so to will Jesus....lead those who prove faithfull.
Yes it’s excruciating at times..but the night is well along...and the day will soon break forth....
 

 

I can agree with you on this, but the underlying factor is that the social ostracism and banishment is directed by the gb, if you want to be right with God in their eyes. Which, I think is what you are saying here:
 
 
 
 
 
And right here you hit the nail on the head! 
How does this make any sense to average jws? 

I disagree:
It is NOT loyalty to the GB.
It is fear of reprisals, banishment, and social ostracism.
I have never even met anyone that is "loyal to the Governing Body".
They do try to be loyal to God ...by obeying the non-inspired and all to often fallible and flat wrong, sometimes goofy self-aggrandizing teachings of the GB.
Sometimes that is noble and a good thing to do.
Sometimes ... not.
They alone are allowed to apostatize from their previous teachings, without severe punishment.

ok, but that is totally different then what 4jah2me was saying. Wasn't 4jah2me pointing out in Matt 12 that Jesus said we would save our sheep on the Sabbath, and then comparing that to how much more valuable a person is than a sheep? So just because it was the sabbath, we should still preserve ourselves the best we can? This hardly would apply to self killing because the gb said so. 
This is precisely what 4jah2me was saying. Stating that is ridiculous to die for what the gb has stated. the gb have positioned themselves AS God to jws, what they say goes.....and it matters not what the Bible says if it is in contrast to what the gb says. this was the point 4jah2me was making. 
 
to compare Jesus' death to a person who chooses NOT to accept life saving techniques is absurd. Jesus could have easily healed His wounds, or made it possible to not die. He did die, to BE the sacrifice we all needed and to do it once and for all. A senseless death because of the burden the gb puts on people is in no way showing loyalty to God, instead it is showing loyalty to the gb.  

I quote 4jah2me "it seems crazy to let yourself die" ...... well ..... jesus allowed himself to die in loyalty to his father......  4jah2me obviously sees something seriously SICK in that!......... or maybe did not fully understand what I was referring to.
There is a problem: he cannot see that a person should not value his life more than his obedience to God!!! 
Matt 16 :25
"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.  "
 
 

You are a sick lady to say such a thing. 
I'd better stop at that. 

You are a sick lady to say such a thing. 
I'd better stop at that. 

You are a sick lady to say such a thing. 
I'd better stop at that. 

Are you seriously equating Jesus death (for all of the sins of mankind) to a person who chooses to deny life saving practices based on what the gb have interpreted? 
please explain this in more detail. 

You are a sick lady to say such a thing. 
I'd better stop at that. 

Yea, I guess Jesus was also crazy (according to 4jah2me) to let himself die. Loyalty to God and his principles had nothing to do with it..... 

... and that was 2,000 or so years before the invention of deodorants!
.... and flea powder!

Did he do it in Latin?

He and Witness will get along just fine. Kos can referee. There will be a war in the heavens to make revelation 12 look like child’s play.
 

I think almost any 'Christian church' could use all of those scriptures.
They DO NOT PROVE that the CCJW and its GB are the true Christian organisation. 
But you can hide behind those scriptures if it makes you feel good.
I know you won't bother to think about the Child Sexual Abuse that your GB is hiding in the CCJW and how the Victims have to suffer for the sake of the rotten organisation. 
And you won't bother to think about how dishonest the GB's lawyers are.
Nor will you think of the misuse of scripture because you do the same.
And you won't remember that your GB admitted to NOT BEING INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT. 
And how it has also been admitted that Elders are NOT APPOINTED BY HOLY SPIRIT. 
But you keep hiding behind your GB and their lies. Because you, just like other JWs, are actually frightened of TRUTH. 
 

Religious WT leaders aka bible scholars aka elders, inside this Organization aka Congregation, have had all the time from 19th century until today for "careful study". They saw some things different than other churches, some stay same as in other churches. 
"Careful study" wasn't so careful, as you suggest for yourself or for GB. Religious doctrines form past to today are proof for wrong understanding despite all efforts and hours of "careful study". 
What about this?
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. - Rom 13
Where is said that elders are in higher status than governing authorities? Despite idea of .... in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God,[a] which he obtained with his own blood.
Are you sure that every elder (or all of them in WT) is established and put in place by HS? Because you used this bible text too: ... And when they had appointed elders for them in every church ....
Who appointed elders? They! .... is the answer in text. Or you suggest how this kind of HS power (to appointing other people into elders in the name of HS) is portable, transferable from man to man? But than you will come to stand before wall, again. WTJWorg and GB claims how no single man, woman or child in this Congregation is not inspired by HS. If you are not inspired why would you think how you can be guided by HS to appoint next elder?
You made good conclusion how:
But, is it possible to see deception because we have "careful study"???

And yet its done on the daily to please the gb. 

God has not given any authority to the GB or the rest of the Leaders of the CCJW. Even the GB admit to NOT BEING inspired by God's Holy Spirit, and they admit that they 'err', or deliberately do wrong. 
They used to pretend that Elders were appointed by Holy Spirit, but now they admit that Elders are NOT appointed by Holy spirit. 
The GB have back tracked on many things. They constantly change the 'teachings' through the Watchtower. 
The GB also deliberately 'forget' that the 'Body of Christ' are 'FELLOW SLAVES', and the GB use the Elders to control those FELLOW SLAVES. Those FELLOW SLAVES are told not to meet together and not to have Bible study together.
AND, disgustingly, the GB accuse their FELLOW SLAVES of 'working against the Holy Spirit'. 
You of course serve your GB and are therefore blinded by their trickery and falsehood. Go careful, blind guides is what they are and you will all fall into the pit. You will have no excuse when Judgement arrives. 
 

Gibraltar Chronicle
Coronavirus is not the end of the world’By Manolo
20th April 2020 By Manolo Gatt
Jehovah’s Witnesses all around the world have reacted quickly to stop the spread of the Coronavirus. Since the initial stages of this, now pandemic, rigorous measures have been taken including the suspension of all public religious activity including large assemblies as well as local meetings usually held in Kingdom Halls.
Locally, working very closely with the Civilian Contingencies Committee, we have implemented all recommended measures as and when required including the suspension of our main activity of going from house to house and public witnessing with our recognisable trolleys.
However, we have been using other means at our disposal such as video conferencing to continue to “meet together”, thus encouraging one another whilst also continuing, to the extent possible, to receive much needed spiritual instruction and comfort.
We of course continue in our determination to fully collaborate with the health authorities, which we thank for their invaluable work, as we endure these challenging times.
Please note that our website, JW.org, is open to everyone, where you can find encouraging and up building information for all age groups, including Bible-based movies which are very practical for our days.
In the meantime, our younger members are helping out as volunteers and are offering themselves to help their neighbours and the elderly going to supermarkets, pharmacies and taking them to the hospital to the doctor when they have an appointment.
We also very much take into consideration the needs of the deaf and the blind by providing them with programmes transmitted by video conference to their own homes in sign language by a team of translators and also Braille publications for those who need them.
Finally, although some people may say that Jehovah’s Witnesses are saying that the coronavirus is a sign of the end of the world, the fact is that we would never make such an affirmation.
What then? According to the Revised Standard Version (Catholic Edition), Jesus, responding to a question asked by his inquisitive disciples: “Tell us […] what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” Jesus answered, and we are quoting only in part: “There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences (epidemics)” (Luke 21:7, 11).
So it would be wrong to say that the Coronavirus is the sign of the end of the world. The truth is that epidemics and diseases have plagued and continue to plague the human race. As we all know humanity has been plagued in recent times, like “the Spanish flu” (1918-1919), that killed more than 40 million persons, the ‘simple flu’, that every year causes the death of between 250,000 and 500,000. Or aids that has infected more than 76 million persons and caused the death of 35 million with deceases related to this ailment. Only in 2016 1.8 million died because of Aids.
Therefore, what can certainly be said is that we are living in the time Jesus foretold when he answered his disciples question.
However, anyone that aims to take advantage of such a tremendous situation as the one we are experiencing today, so sad and tragic with its many deaths and economic instability, to frighten or intimidate the people that are our neighbours, does a great disservice to the real message of hope that the Bible highlights and Jesus taught us to pray for, saying: “Let your Kingdom come”.
That hope is the promise of a better world that everyone can aspire to where God Himself “will wipe away every tear from our eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things shall pass away.” And they will pass away. The Kingdom of God will accomplish this. (Matthew 6:9; Apocalypse 21:4; RSV Catholic Edition).
That is why Jesus wanted everyone to know about this, so he told his disciples that: “this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all nations, and then the end will come” (Matthew 24:14).
This is the true essence of real Christianity.
Manolo Gatt is the Overseer Public Relations in the Gibraltar Congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses
Nice to have a balanced viewpoint. 
 
However, we have been using other means at our disposal such as video conferencing to continue to “meet together”, thus encouraging one another whilst also continuing, to the extent possible, to receive much needed spiritual instruction and comfort.
We of course continue in our determination to fully collaborate with the health authorities, which we thank for their invaluable work, as we endure these challenging times.
Please note that our website, JW.org, is open to everyone, where you can find encouraging and up building information for all age groups, including Bible-based movies which are very practical for our days.
In the meantime, our younger members are helping out as volunteers and are offering themselves to help their neighbours and the elderly going to supermarkets, pharmacies and taking them to the hospital to the doctor when they have an appointment.
We also very much take into consideration the needs of the deaf and the blind by providing them with programmes transmitted by video conference to their own homes in sign language by a team of translators and also Braille publications for those who need them.
Finally, although some people may say that Jehovah’s Witnesses are saying that the coronavirus is a sign of the end of the world, the fact is that we would never make such an affirmation.
What then? According to the Revised Standard Version (Catholic Edition), Jesus, responding to a question asked by his inquisitive disciples: “Tell us […] what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” Jesus answered, and we are quoting only in part: “There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences (epidemics)” (Luke 21:7, 11).
So it would be wrong to say that the Coronavirus is the sign of the end of the world. The truth is that epidemics and diseases have plagued and continue to plague the human race. As we all know humanity has been plagued in recent times, like “the Spanish flu” (1918-1919), that killed more than 40 million persons, the ‘simple flu’, that every year causes the death of between 250,000 and 500,000. Or aids that has infected more than 76 million persons and caused the death of 35 million with deceases related to this ailment. Only in 2016 1.8 million died because of Aids.
Therefore, what can certainly be said is that we are living in the time Jesus foretold when he answered his disciples question.
However, anyone that aims to take advantage of such a tremendous situation as the one we are experiencing today, so sad and tragic with its many deaths and economic instability, to frighten or intimidate the people that are our neighbours, does a great disservice to the real message of hope that the Bible highlights and Jesus taught us to pray for, saying: “Let your Kingdom come”.
That hope is the promise of a better world that everyone can aspire to where God Himself “will wipe away every tear from our eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things shall pass away.” And they will pass away. The Kingdom of God will accomplish this. (Matthew 6:9; Apocalypse 21:4; RSV Catholic Edition).
That is why Jesus wanted everyone to know about this, so he told his disciples that: “this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all nations, and then the end will come” (Matthew 24:14).
This is the true essence of real Christianity.
Manolo Gatt is the Overseer Public Relations in the Gibraltar Congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses

Speaking of religious experiences ........
This morning I personally celebrated being alive with the contemporary emblems of Western Society ... doughnuts and coffee ..... and the memory of a sugar and caffeine high.
I was a partaker.
And no ... I don't want to get into a discussion about scones and crumpets, whatever they are.

"Lackey" is a rather rude term for someone who has a different belief than your own, don't you think?   Keep in mind, if there is anyone who may agree with me in anything, I don't write their name down, or keep a file on them, remember their "sins", admonish them NOT to "make sure of all things" (1 Thess 5:19-22), or to  beg for donations to support my work.  Approximately 8 million or less (should I call them "lackeys"?) do just that for your GB and their idol.  Rev 13:1,2, 5-11, 15-18

I am glad you noticed this. This is why is choose not to reason with her or her two lackeys......any longer..... the logic and reason is lacking -  nonsensical.