Patiently waiting for Truth

You seem to be making so many assumptions and judgments - let's leave it at that.

@Arauna  Unfortunately you write emotionally not spiritually, so it is difficult to have a conversation with you.
Proof of this is such things as :-
Quote "maybe you are the only person God can use heh?  It seems you think this way...
How can I answer such things ? If you have read many things that i have written you would know differently.
Quote " Pride is a blinding sin.  When one judges for God that the spiritual Israelites  he is using are not good enough for you."
Firstly, it does not seem as if GOD is using anyone right now.  Anthony Morris' comment concerning the Virus is not exactly loving is it ? The Virus is not from God, so why would that GB member be so happy about it ?
And the CSA issue is of course not so important right now, but it is still there, and still to be answered for.
And the misuse of scripture, overlapping generations etc...  
I only judge the GB and the CCJW for my own purpose, so that i can tell if it is the right way to try to serve God. In my eyes it is not the right way to serve God, because it can easily be seen as unclean and sometimes dishonest.  And not least that the GB admit to not having God's guidance. 
It is no different to you or anyone judging the Catholic Church or any other religion as to if that religion is serving God properly. And lets be honest the CCJW has constantly judged other religions and condemned them. 
Arauna, you still seem to be putting your faith in those 8 men. So be it, if it suits your needs. But don't be so angry with others that are looking to God through Christ for a true answer. 
 
 

@Arauna  Unfortunately you write emotionally not spiritually, so it is difficult to have a conversation with you.
Proof of this is such things as :-
Quote "maybe you are the only person God can use heh?  It seems you think this way...
How can I answer such things ? If you have read many things that i have written you would know differently.
Quote " Pride is a blinding sin.  When one judges for God that the spiritual Israelites  he is using are not good enough for you."
Firstly, it does not seem as if GOD is using anyone right now.  Anthony Morris' comment concerning the Virus is not exactly loving is it ? The Virus is not from God, so why would that GB member be so happy about it ?
And the CSA issue is of course not so important right now, but it is still there, and still to be answered for.
And the misuse of scripture, overlapping generations etc...  
I only judge the GB and the CCJW for my own purpose, so that i can tell if it is the right way to try to serve God. In my eyes it is not the right way to serve God, because it can easily be seen as unclean and sometimes dishonest.  And not least that the GB admit to not having God's guidance. 
It is no different to you or anyone judging the Catholic Church or any other religion as to if that religion is serving God properly. And lets be honest the CCJW has constantly judged other religions and condemned them. 
Arauna, you still seem to be putting your faith in those 8 men. So be it, if it suits your needs. But don't be so angry with others that are looking to God through Christ for a true answer. 
 
 

I understand that all are imperfect humans (ancient fleshly Israel as well as the spiritual Israel of god).  Pride is a blinding sin.  When one judges for God that the spiritual Israelites  he is using are not good enough for you. 
We are already in the period leading up to the events leading to Armageddon and you are still waiting for a more perfect spiritual Israel to make an appearance?  Isaiah 2: 2-4.  A nation coming from all nations on earth ,gathered to jehovah,  and learning war no more
 

I do not think you are going to find any such people...... even if God has already answered your prayers and they are right in front of your eyes......maybe you are the only person God can use heh?  It seems you think this way...... remember the pharisees judged a perfect man - jesus- as not being good enough. Do not fall in the same trap.

I, too, am very offended by @TrueTomHarley and all his remarks. Tell him to stop right now—the big jerk!

Good attitude to have.
However the bible does speak of the resurrection of the righteous and  'unrighteous'. Acts 24:15.  An unrighteous person receiving a resurrection has shown faith in Jesus such as the unrighteous man on the stake next to Jesus. Other unrighteous humans who have lived (say in China) long before Jesus paid the ransom, have paid for their sins in death but will also be covered by the ransom sacrifice of Jesus.  
During the 1000 year judgment day,  Jesus as high priest will administer the value of his sacrifice for all resurrected ones (including those who had no incling of christ) to lead them to perfection. When Satan is let loose (battle against Gog of Magog) and the final test as a perfect person is completed, the bible indicates that those choosing against Jehovahs way of ruling will go to Gehenna - everlasting death. 
Yes the same issue of obedience to Jehovahs sovreignty will come up again under Gog of magog at the end of the 1000 years. This time the 'unrighteous' will understand the issues involved as perfect people.  All of us on earth will be tested as perfect people - like Adam.  Jehovah is just and the system of judgment he implements is just - giving unrighteous ones who did not have the opportunity to know christ and jehovah a chance to do so.
We need not have a scripture to tell us that there are tons of people living millennia before jesus christ, who never knew about him.  It is clear from the chronology of the bible and the fact that jehovah used only Israel to bring forth the messiah. Eventually "all the earth" would be blessed by the promise to Abraham..
 
The world is a mighty big place. To Americans New York seems to be very important but it is not even the legislative capital of USA....... so how can God specially refer to this city as a wicked city which has persecuted his people and committed spiritism ...... and riding the beast - the political system....... and now her judgment has come.
London or Beijing with its stock exchanges can then (for a case of speculation) easily be this city too...... ...but no - this city is a symbol of something which has been around for a long time ....... it was already around when this prophecy was written down in the time of apostle John and it is something which has plaqued mankind since they turned away from God. It is something which was twinned with the beast the political system.
As I mentioned to you before, the ancient city of Babilon (in the time of Sumerians) became famous for, and was the originator of star gazing, spells and it was the city where,  Babylon under Nimrod, rebelled against God and  originated false religion and combined false religion  with political rulership. 
 

No, I am not deliberately deceiving Kosonen.  And you left off verse 9.
I'll read it from the NKJV if you like:
"Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 
8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 
9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
Gathered and surrounded.  Gathered like a fish caught in a net, then surrounded by false teachings and the threat that they will be "killed" if they speak against doctrine.  Rev 16:13,14; 13:15
Col 2:8
Then he (Beast from the Sea/organization) opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Saints represent the anointed ones, God's "holy" people:  https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NKJV&quicksearch=saints&begin=73&end=73
You're telling me that Revelation will change the meaning of "saints" from the anointed, to all JWs, to accommodate the lie of a thousand years of "peace" and judgment that will happen after Armageddon.  Do you realize how confusing this teaching can be?  Each day of your peace in paradise is a day of judgment.  And, you will also be judged at the end of the thousand years.  Besides that, you are being judged NOW as worthy to enter this new judgment period.  I am beginning to sound like Stephen Lett (the last of the last of last days...)
In a sense, you are right in one thing, not only are the saints from every nation of the world surrounded, but as Rev 13:7 states, the Beast/organization was given authority over people from every tribe, tongue and nation - all JWs.
7 od chap. 16 pp. 162-168 - Organized (od)   "In view of the many divisive factors that exist today, who would ever have thought it possible to unite people “out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues”? (Rev. 7:9)
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 
Satan's deceptive plan to "surround the saints" and all who fall for this master plan, is staring you right in the face.
(We've been over the fact that Rev 7:9 is speaking of the anointed serving in God's Temple  Rev 7:15)
Rev 10:8-11:  Then the voice which I heard from heaven spoke to me again and said, “Go, take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the sea and on the earth.”
9 So I went to the angel and said to him, “Give me the little book.”
And he said to me, “Take and eat it; and it will make your stomach bitter, but it will be as sweet as honey in your mouth.”
10 Then I took the little book out of the angel’s hand and ate it, and it was as sweet as honey in my mouth. But when I had eaten it, my stomach became bitter. 11 And he said to me, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings.”    The "kings of the earth" and those JWs who reside with them.  (Rev 1:5)
The initial invitation to the WT teachings seems as sweet as honey, until one wakes up to its charades, which is a bitter experience. 

Point 1. God does not need telling HE already knows. My prayers to God ask HIM to bring forth a clean people for HIM to use. 
God used the Nation of Israel for a couple of reasons. The main reason was to being forth Jesus Christ. 
But as I've said before, and of course I'm ignored for it, people were BORN INTO the Nation of Israel so they did NOT CHOSE to be Iraelites. Hence it was not voluntary.  Do you not understand that ?
And therefore do you not understand the big difference ?  JW's volunteer TO BE JWs. It is a personal choice, a choice which Israelites did not have. 
There is no comparison between the Nation of Israel  and the CCJW in that way. 
But one thing, the Nation of Israel got punished for disobeying God. They got punished for offering their children in the fire. They got punished for worshipping false gods. 
So if you really think the CCJW is God's chosen organisation, and if you really think it compares to the Nation of Israel, then I suggest to you that you get ready for the CCJW to be punished by God. 
 

@admin  and @Anna    I am offended by this comment. Please tell this Mr Harley to refrain from insulting me. 
Thank you in advance. 

Could it be because of what is said in Revelation 21:2  I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3  With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.
The beasts in the Bible represent political powers. Not the Watchtower organization. And the Harlot is Babylon the Great. And Babylon the Great is not Watchtower organization or Governing Body. 
Babylon the Great is what Revelation 17:18 says it is:
18  And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”
The great city is New York.

The fellow’s got a screw loose, and that is partly why I have exercised no authority to have him deleted. By being so histrionic he makes his side look bad

But when Jesus told about resurrection he was not talking to anointed. He was answering a question some Sadducees had about resurrection. The question was who of the seven brothers would get the woman they all had been married to in the resurrection. 
And there are no scriptures that would say that at the resurrection people will get married. So it is best not to go beyond what is in the Holy Scriptures. 
1 Corinthians 4:6 “Do not go beyond the things that are written,”
I remember that the WT literature teaches that. But do we have any scripture that would say that directly? I don't think so. Instead it is a supposition, that every person should get a chance to repent. Well every person has a concience and every person can understand what things are bad. So bad people know deep inside that they are bad, without anyone telling them.
Romans 2:12  For all those who sinned without law will also perish without law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. 13  For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14  For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15  They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused.
This statment was directly derived from the following scriptures:
John 5:28  Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29  and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
 
Revelation 20:11  And I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. From before him the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12  And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13  And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14  And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15  Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.

You are so funny James.  Your 'test' is not important to me. 
If you are blind enough or lazy enough to remain with CCJW then why should i be concerned about your opinion ?  I gave you an option, which you obviously do not like. 
Stay safe, America seems to be suffering badly. 

Point 1. God does not need telling HE already knows. My prayers to God ask HIM to bring forth a clean people for HIM to use. 
God used the Nation of Israel for a couple of reasons. The main reason was to being forth Jesus Christ. 
But as I've said before, and of course I'm ignored for it, people were BORN INTO the Nation of Israel so they did NOT CHOSE to be Iraelites. Hence it was not voluntary.  Do you not understand that ?
And therefore do you not understand the big difference ?  JW's volunteer TO BE JWs. It is a personal choice, a choice which Israelites did not have. 
There is no comparison between the Nation of Israel  and the CCJW in that way. 
But one thing, the Nation of Israel got punished for disobeying God. They got punished for offering their children in the fire. They got punished for worshipping false gods. 
So if you really think the CCJW is God's chosen organisation, and if you really think it compares to the Nation of Israel, then I suggest to you that you get ready for the CCJW to be punished by God. 
 

@James Thomas Rook Jr. It is clear from the Bible that God works THROUGH the Congregations.
But CCJW congregations are fed by the GB through the Watchtower, which has a history of lies and deceit and mistakes. It has been proven to deliberately misquote others such as scientists etc. It has promoted false hopes many times. It now seems to use all and any world event to promote the panic that 'the end is here' and with that it promotes the false idea that a person 'must be a baptised JW to be saved'. All this even when the GB admit to NOT being inspired by God. 
Frying pan or fire James, but it doesn't have to be either. You don't have to be a JW or have to be in another religion. I am not in any religion, but I still pray to God through Christ. 
What do you suggest is BETTER than what I have now?
Answer : Do not be in any religion, pray to God yourself asking for direction through Christ,  and wait on God to show which group of people HE will use. 
Imagine if millions of people did just that, then God would know how serious people were in looking for truth. 
Instead, people including JWs, sit in their comfort zone, having their ears tickled. Surrounded by like people, they comfort each other with the lies from their leaders. Putting their trust in men. How easy that is, how lazy that is, how disrespectful to God and Christ that is. 
And in places like Russia they die for their leaders and their 'religion', but not for God. They are just like soldiers dying for their country. Because they have put their faith in Men. 
@JW Insider I accept the lead of good examples 
Um, I'll try to stop laughing. Come on JWI, you have made clear that your GB are not a good example. I don't really want to harp back to CSA, withholding documents, lawyers telling lies in courts, et al, but that is just one example that your GB are NOT a good example to follow. 
Exalting themselves above others by saying only those 8 Men are the F&DS, is another example of them NOT being a good example to follow.  
But this is all just repeating what you already know. 
 Quote " Also, the level of morality that's promoted includes, "
The immorality in the CCJW is mostly hidden unless you are one of them with a good eye and keen ear. Having been 'one of them' and having first hand knowledge of how bad things are in there, then i'm not misled by the 'cleaning of the outside of the dish'. Outsiders have no idea how bad the CCJW really is inside. And you, yourself have given us all more in depth info' about Bethal and such places. Homosexuality and wild parties if my memory serves me correctly. And also something about brothers being d/fed for having certain private Bible study groups ?  (I wish my memory was clearer).
Quote " neutrality when it comes to participation in divisive politics "
Maybe you need to talk to James on this one ? He seems to want details about voting or not.
James, God 'worked' through the congregations. Worked - past tense. that was in the first century. 
Just because CCJW is earthwide it means nothing, so is Islam and Catholicism.... 

That is your opinion. You are telling God that you feel there is no organization clean enough....  
Do you not remember the scripture where David said that if jehovah only looked at our faults then no-one will be able to stand before him.... 
Israel was very imperfect but jehovah stuck with his purpose for them. 

Probably not ...just too inexperienced to know what is really important, and what is realistically possible.
I used to be like that.
In a way, I am jealous.
I know too much.

You are so funny James.  Your 'test' is not important to me. 
If you are blind enough or lazy enough to remain with CCJW then why should i be concerned about your opinion ?  I gave you an option, which you obviously do not like. 
Stay safe, America seems to be suffering badly. 

When thinking of the necessity of "new light"; which WT history shows was never "light" at all, (i.e. this generation teaching), I remembered Jesus' words at  Matt 5:37
37 But let your statement be ‘Yes, yes; no, no,’ and anything beyond these is from the evil one.
Seriously, God and Christ both, don't have anything to do with any supposed "light" that the Wt. may attempt to shine.  
 

Perhaps the problem lies in our concept of what is the "proper" worship of god.
For example, "true" worship of God, within a religious system, would mean that there is nothing that makes that worship questionable. Doctrine, the way the doctrine as whole or particular doctrine is applied, the state of the spiritual heart of the believer toward himself, toward god and toward other people and the relationship of the believer to the world around him as whole.
But we can also lay out the theory and the possibility that the "true" worship of God is relative and perhaps does not exist, because people who participate in the worship process have the problem of establishing what is true and what is not, and not just about God and Bible, but about themselves.
Also, perhaps people forget possibility how god's opposer have no problem with religion where 50, 68 or 95% of doctrine is "true" but rest is not. Or how members of some religion are most peaceful people in the world but one or few of their's doctrines are "false true". 
If members of some religion have idea how they have "the truth", but in the same time that "truth", as concept, is under various process of transformations under and because influence of "light", and how content of "pure" truth and doctrine depend on our progress of understanding, than people create specific way of worshiping god.
In all that we need answer on: how far true god is ready to go in accepting human worship that is, and we clearly see that, contaminated with human's and devil's influence?  
 

4J:
You failed the test I use.
You have different criteria than I use.

It doesn't take any sort of organized religion to develop a relationship with God and Christ.  John 4:23,24  Many cults boast of an "international brotherhood", as did the Nazis.  Efficient worldwide preaching work is not spiritually efficient, if it is laced with lies, that have their source from the leader's mouths. Matt 7:15-20; Rev 16:13,14 Why would anyone desire to lead people into such a trap, a trap that is called, "truth" when it is not, and never has been, pure truth?  
Jer 8:17; Matt 24:24; John 8:44
 
 
 
 

I accept the lead of good examples. These "leaders" set a very good example in promoting international brotherhood, organizing efficient world wide preaching, designing an educational program that puts Bible examples in front of us constantly so we can learn from good and bad examples. Also, the level of morality that's promoted includes, not just the standard morality of fundamentalists, but also neutrality when it comes to participation in divisive politics and violent wars. I don't remain with my brothers and sisters because of a history of chronology doctrine, and I do my best to point out that this is a trap which could start rearing its ugly head again when the two-part generation starts running out.
But as JTR said, find me another religion or association that I could join, and if it's better, I'll join it. Just make sure it has the same position on War, Trinity, Neutrality, Preaching, and New Heavens and New Earth.

You take my often expressed sentiments out of context ...
In context, Jehovah's Witnesses are the "Best Game In Town", because all the others are so much worse.
It is clear from the Bible that God works THROUGH the Congregations.
What do you suggest is BETTER than what I have now?
Please tell me, and I will transfer in an instant (upon verification, of course ...)
Without that ... your arguments are specious and useless.
Because that, and that alone .. is where the "rubber meets the road".
Humans...ALL humans are seriously flawed.
You expect diamond hardness from sticks of chalk.