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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Given the very long time and different religious ideologies, but also different interpretations within the same religious community, one could conclude that a "disgusting thing" exists at all times and in all places. Because of this, people who see and want to react, must constantly be ready to "flee to the mountains".
  2. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Shiwiii in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Quote @JW Insider "No one should be able to say, oh look at this war, "See here!" it is the greatest war ever seen, or "Look at this great earthquake, or famine, or pestilence, "
    But isn't that what the GB and CCJW do ?   Don't they misuse the sufferings of others to hype up their own agenda ? 
    Didn't a GB member say he was not bothered by this virus and that  'we were expecting it to happen' as part of a sign of the end times ? 
  3. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    "Constant feature" - And from the time the regular burnt offering is removed and the abomination that causes desolation is set up there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    "From the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days"
    Who performed "burnt offerings" in the earthly temple on a regular, constant, basis?  
    Who are to give "sacrifices of praise" today?  Heb 13:14,15
    Who acts as "priests"/clergy in the organization today, by "representing"  God's true priesthood?  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16
    And you must say to the rebellious, to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord YHWH: “Enough for you, house of Israel, of all of your detestable things! 7 At your bringing foreigners who are uncircumcised of heart and uncircumcised of flesh to be in my sanctuary to profane it, my temple, as you offered my food, fat, and blood, so you broke my covenant by all of your detestable things. 8 And you did not observe the responsibility of my sanctuary, but you appointed them as the keepers of my responsibility in my sanctuary for you.”  Ezek 44:6-9
    The "constant feature" has been removed.  The "abomination"/ "disgusting thing" is the elder body in the organization.
    “But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be” (let the one who reads understand), “then those in Judea must flee to the mountains!"  Mark 13:14 
    Who has the power to judge God's anointed priesthood?  To "kill" them?  To "kill" any who reject this abomination and their lies?  Rev 13:15
    Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and who exalts himself over every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, proclaiming that he himself is God. 2 Thess 2:3,4
    Do you realize what the temple of God is?  
    Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.  Eph 2:19-22
    If you are truly an anointed one, YOU are part of that temple.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17
     
     
  4. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    I'm not at all suggesting that this is the true meaning of those final verses of Daniel, but they do rather eerily correspond to the experience of almost everyone who feels the frustration of pinning their hopes on chronology.
    Here is a quote from the actual verses again, followed by a paraphrase of what might be written between the lines. Let the reader use discernment, while keeping their tongue in cheek:
    ([ACTUAL] Daniel 12:6-13) . . .“How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. . . . 8 Now as for me, I heard, but I could not understand; so I said: “O my lord, what will be the outcome of these things?” 9 Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. 10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand. 11 . . . there will be 1,290 days. 12 “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days! 13 “But as for you, go on to the end. You will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days.”
    ([FAKE] Daniel 12:6-13) . . .“How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever: [“IT'S GOING TO BE 1,260 DAYS"] . . .  8 Now as for me, I heard, but I could not understand; so I said: “O my lord, what will be the outcome of these things?” 9 Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. 10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand. . . . [YOU WILL PROBABLY WONDER WHY NOTHING SEEMED TO HAPPEN AT THE END OF 1,260 DAYS AND RECALCULATE TO ANNOUNCE]. . . .there will be 1,290 days. [AND WHEN THAT DOESN'T WORK OUT YOU WILL PROBABLY THINK YOU CAN RECALCULATE AGAIN AND ANNOUNCE:] 12 “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days! 13 “But as for you, go on to the end. [IN FACT, YOU MAY CONTINUE TO GO ON FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE AND WONDER WHY YOU NEVER COULD FIGURE OUT WHY YOUR OWN EXPECTATION PROVED WRONG FOR 1,260, then 1290, THEN 1,335 DAYS. BUT DON'T WORRY AT ALL. THESE TIME PERIODS ARE GOD'S, NOT YOURS. YOU MAY LIVE OUT YOUR LIFE AND REST IN THE GROUND, BUT REST ASSURED] . . . You will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days.”
    Although this FAKE ending of Daniel probably seems ludicrous to you, it has been the exact experience of thousands of persons who thought they could figure out just what is the meaning of the 1,260 days. Several times in the 1800's, for example, men tried to pinpoint the end. Some started announcing in 1840 that the end was about 3.5 years away, but when it didn't happen in 1843, they recalculated and picked new dates in 1844, and then when it didn't happen in October 1844, they waited right up to nearly the last cold day of 1844. Then again it happened in the 1860's, and then it happened again in the 1870's. (Barbour said it would be 1873, then changed it to 1874, then his group recalculated possible dates in 1874. Then, when 1874 failed, they decided it was 1874 all along but invisible.) Then it happened again around 1914, when the "END" of this system had been predicted, and then when it didn't happen, the end "of the Gentile Times" was moved to 1915. A few months after it didn't happen then, the Finished Mystery book, predicted the end of this system for 1918. When it didn't happen then, it was predicted again for 1925.**
    I think we should stop trying to go where angels should fear to tread, and trust that the end can come at any time. It is our lot to live our lives in expectation that it can happen at any time, yet, for all of us it will happen unexpectedly, in an instant, at the very end of our current lives, if not sooner.
    **Ironically, the expression in Daniel 12:12: "Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days" is interpreted in the Watchtower to mean the year 1925. This was probably the saddest and most embarrassing year in the history of the Watch Tower Society. Does this sound happy?
    *** yb75 p. 146 Part 2—United States of America ***
    So, as Anna MacDonald recalls: “1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed. They had hoped to see some of the ‘ancient worthies’ [men of old like Abraham] resurrected. Instead of its being considered a ‘probability,’ they read into it that it was a ‘certainty,’ and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of their resurrection.
    Imagine, being told that 1925 was a sure thing, even surer than 1914, with even more assurances than Noah had for believing God when God told him there would be a flood. The Watchtower said it was not just a probability but a certainty. Based on that certainty, some brothers even built houses and extra rooms for their resurrected loved ones. Imagine them thinking of Noah explaining to passersby why he was building an ark, when brothers in 1924 and 1925 were explaining to passersby why they were building additions onto their homes. Then imagine being told that it was their own fault for believing the Watchtower which had indicated that it was a certainty, and not just a probability. In fact, they should have never even considered 1925 to be any stronger of a probability than 1850 or 1935 or 1975 or 2034!
    Those who pin their hopes on any specific signs or dates will probably have those hopes dashed.
  5. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    Whoa! Something within that link—a specific answer to your question.
    I learned that Brother Herd, who may not even know what political correctness is, will never reprove me for ‘fat-shaming.’
    Establishing the point that it is the heart that matters, he floated the quandary of marrying the woman—an excellent catch—with the heart of pure gold, even though she “clocks in at 200 pounds.” Is he a diplomat or what?
  6. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    I took a great many notes with the intent to write up a post or two that never happened, crowded out by too many other things to do. It was in between days that I, for the first time ever, blocked several apostates at once as they had, for the first time ever, ganged up on me. They had pierced my up-to-then successful armor of always linking to a post with my replies, effectively answering their 50 words with my 1000. Like charging a hill, caring not if they got mowed down, they came at me anyway. I would return to the hotel from a day at the convention and find a score or more of nastigrams from them, eager to call attention to the ARC or something—all this with a wife who wanted to go out to supper or walk or unwind, and who is not terribly enthused about my online activity in the first place. So I blasted them all away, and for reasons I no longer recall—I must have been watching Star Trek reruns, I drew heavily on that show for symbolism:
    https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/08/blocking-trolls-the-star-trek-way-i-didnt-want-to-do-it.html
    There you go. Your first comment. Happy?
  7. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Meanwhile here in the UK, Boris the PM has just announced a sort of 'lock down' on all of us.  As of tonight we are basically grounded. Not a strong enough 'lock down' in my opinion but then modern day UK PMs are never strong enough to get a job done. 
    Meanwhile I notice that TTH is more concerned about money than human sufferings. And as for the CCJW still pumping out their 'talks' etc, so what ?  Lies are lies and deceit is still deceit whether by word of mouth live, or by relayed internet or other tech'.  Makes no difference if you are all still singing to the same tune, if the song does not serve God. 
    @JW Insider I think you totally avoided what i said to waffle on about other things. Why even bother to quote me if you don't actually want to answer what i asked ? 
    You did make it quite clear though that the CCJW is built on a crumbling foundation. In fact the CCJW is built on a foundation of lies and deceit. For you to say it does not matter now, well that is your opinion of course.  It only does not matter to new members that never knew the previous lies and misused scriptures. 
    I'll repeat @Srecko Sostar 
    It can be so for new and coming generations of JW members ( younger in age and who are not so long time in organization). Older members try/tried to cope with issue and found few methods how to deal with wrong faith doctrine. 
    More serious "problem" not gone, and will stay "forever". To give and show trust in GB leaders, because Jesus also trust GB. :)) 
    Thank you Srecko, very true words. 
    @JW Insider  Your list of 4 points proves very clearly that your GB are not the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave'. 
    You have proven by your own words how wicked they are. 
  8. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Quote @JW Insider "No one should be able to say, oh look at this war, "See here!" it is the greatest war ever seen, or "Look at this great earthquake, or famine, or pestilence, "
    But isn't that what the GB and CCJW do ?   Don't they misuse the sufferings of others to hype up their own agenda ? 
    Didn't a GB member say he was not bothered by this virus and that  'we were expecting it to happen' as part of a sign of the end times ? 
  9. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Of course! There is no question in my mind that you should be running everything.
  10. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Facts are nice, but they are overrated. They are downright dangerous things in the hands of some, who handle them as deftly as a surgeon with a jackhammer.
    Facts mean little in themselves. It’s how you put them together that counts. That’s why the Bible lays relatively little emphasis on the head and instead lays it on the heart.
    The heart determines what it wants and then entrusts the head to devise a convincing rationale for it, giving the appearance that it is the head running the show. But it is the heart all along.
  11. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Meanwhile here in the UK, Boris the PM has just announced a sort of 'lock down' on all of us.  As of tonight we are basically grounded. Not a strong enough 'lock down' in my opinion but then modern day UK PMs are never strong enough to get a job done. 
    Meanwhile I notice that TTH is more concerned about money than human sufferings. And as for the CCJW still pumping out their 'talks' etc, so what ?  Lies are lies and deceit is still deceit whether by word of mouth live, or by relayed internet or other tech'.  Makes no difference if you are all still singing to the same tune, if the song does not serve God. 
    @JW Insider I think you totally avoided what i said to waffle on about other things. Why even bother to quote me if you don't actually want to answer what i asked ? 
    You did make it quite clear though that the CCJW is built on a crumbling foundation. In fact the CCJW is built on a foundation of lies and deceit. For you to say it does not matter now, well that is your opinion of course.  It only does not matter to new members that never knew the previous lies and misused scriptures. 
    I'll repeat @Srecko Sostar 
    It can be so for new and coming generations of JW members ( younger in age and who are not so long time in organization). Older members try/tried to cope with issue and found few methods how to deal with wrong faith doctrine. 
    More serious "problem" not gone, and will stay "forever". To give and show trust in GB leaders, because Jesus also trust GB. :)) 
    Thank you Srecko, very true words. 
    @JW Insider  Your list of 4 points proves very clearly that your GB are not the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave'. 
    You have proven by your own words how wicked they are. 
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Preaching of JW are based on, primarily, this: as much worst condition in the world are, the end is nearer. This is win situation for WT. If "preaching" stopped than end is here. If preaching not stopped than this means you have to save more people. If "preaching" stopped but nothing happen than you can wait to hear "clarification". JW will never lose their spirituality and hope, because humankind will continue in this state for very long time, unfortunately.  
    It is good to remind on factual records of Israel history. With or/and without Moses, people of Israel lived and died not too much different than any other nation in history.
  13. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    The premise, and apparently the hope, of this entire thread Kos stated early on:
    “I told my wife that maybe there will never again be meetings as before. I hope the JWs will wake up and start to examine the scriptures seriously and search what all this could lead to.“
    In fact, it looks like meetings are pretty much going on with barely a hiccup. They have simply switched to conference-call software, with telephone tie-in for any not up to speed on this. If Kos foresees that every child in the world can download apps showing the alignment of the planets, I don’t why he would have any problem foreseeing this, but it doesn’t appear that he did. Rather than take his self-predicted five years to make himself even more insightful and pure than he already is, maybe he should repent if possible and try to get into that new format with his wife rather than being a drag that she must contend with.
    Our congregation will start with the conference calls at this mid-week meeting, Zoom in our case. (We will meet in Zoom Rooms—who would have thunk it?) Over the weekend we streamed it from apparently one of the Bethels. I could not help but think how the contents would have been disappointing to any ‘anti-cultist’ because there was not a bit of alarmism and everyone treated the virus threat as just one more run-of-the-mill challenge to adapt to. Referred to several times in comments, it wasn’t even called the ‘Chinese virus.’ They didn’t get into any squabbles if they should be able to do it that way or not—since it gets some all incensed, they avoided the term, and just said virus or Covid 19 or Corona or whatever. It is so much like this world to ‘taunt’ the other side, deliberately getting them going usually for the sake of putting down, if not ridicule, but they didn’t stoop to that for a moment. It almost made me ashamed that i do stoop to it (but probably not ashamed enough to stop), though I am trying to restrain myself, not always easily.
    They didn’t sensationalize this virus even a little bit, much less use it to ‘scare’ people. It easily could be used that way. They didn’t. Not even a hint of it. So I will—just in a speculative bent, you understand, no more.
    For the longest time we have said our preaching will end someday. What if this turns out to be it? It’s not impossible, though no one suggests it. I expect this to blow over and normal preaching and activities will resume, but there is no reason to accept that as a foregone conclusion. What if the world leaders who just assume you can shut down the entire world economy and start it up again are wrong, and instead another worldwide Great Depression ensues? The deaths then will dwarf anything that the virus itself brings on, including many a suicide. Will people endure it as resolutely as they did 90 years ago? I wouldn’t hold my breath, not with the belligerence and non-cooperation that defines the overall culture today. And wouldn’t that be a decisive verdict to the facades men have erected? The worldwide financial bedrock, that everyone depends on and have taken for granted will endure no matter what—dissolving so easily in the face of what might well be an overreaction to a virus only two or three times more nasty than the regular flu—bad, to be sure, but not nearly as bad as the devastation triggered in the all-out war to contain it, a war that leaders can only hope will be won but do not know. As that mighty structure crumbles, who knows what efforts nations may go to in their desire to shore it up?
    Then all these ones on the outside lambasting the Witness organization every time one of them so much as farts may begin to feel less comfortable. For the Witness brotherhood appears to be holding up pretty well, and it is holding up well independent of material assets. If worse comes to worse, you can run the whole program from a server in Brother Lett’s dorm room. It might even be that conditions could devolve to Acts 2 mode, in which Christians are physically caring for the needs of others. If you have kept yourself plugged into the brotherhood that, with all its flaws, is one run on love, you will be able to weather whatever shaking of the world is going on. Those who have put themselves outside it and are united in nothing other than their finding fault—of them I am not so sure.
    A speaker quoted from Numbers 12 recently. “Face to face I speak with [Moses], and not in riddles. Why then, did you not fear to speak against him?” Yes, I know, I know—those taking the lead today are not Moses, but I am not so unfearful to declare they are not filling exactly the modern role that he did the ancient. Yes, they are not Moses, but then Moses was not Moses in the eyes of his critics. What were they murmuring about? His Hittite wives. He really did have Hittite wives. It was not an invalid complaint. God accepted him anyway and struck down those who would rise up against him.
    I can easily extrapolate, based on the snarling hate expressed by some here for the theocratic organization, and current events showing that opposition shifting into high gear, most notably in Russia—I can envision that attack on the city ‘existing without bars’ and ‘the city that seems open to plunder’—I can easily envision it—not as a slam-dunk gonna-happen-now, but certainly as a possibility. Will religions in general hold onto their own as JWs hold on to theirs? Time will time, but I’m dubious. How many will so easily switch to new methods of keeping in touch? How many are so organized into not just congregations, but groups within congregations, so that no one other than those who willfully keep their distance is overlooked?
    Revelation presents scenarios of people ‘warring against God’ and one can’t help but wonder: ‘Who would be stupid enough to do that?’ Now some scenarios emerge. ‘Do not meddle with these men so that you may not be found actually fighters against God,’ Gamaliel said. It was enough to dissuade the Sanhedrin. ‘Forget that!’ enemies say today as they go in for what they imagine is the kill.
    The view of the humanists is that human solutions must prevail, and they are livid that any would look to another source. They are livid that any would put their trust in anything else. They attack and put the most ridiculous interpretation on Letts’ words about what doesn’t bother him at all, because they can’t stand what he looks to for salvation. To one of these yo-yos ranting about how he uses calamity to ‘exploit’ members with fear so as to keep them in line, I said that ‘the entire premise of the faith is that we are living in the last days of this system of things in which difficult times will prevail. To point to evidence of that does not frighten them; it strengthens them—it validates their faith.’
  14. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    It can be so for new and coming generations of JW members ( younger in age and who are not so long time in organization). Older members try/tried to cope with issue and found few methods how to deal with wrong faith doctrine. 
    More serious "problem" not gone, and will stay "forever". To give and show trust in GB leaders, because Jesus also trust GB. :)) 
    In some situation it is good to show trust in "authority". For example, here in Croatia and especially in Zagreb after strong earthquake citizens need to show trust and listen to secular authority and medical experts how to deal with two problems.
    PS
    As ironic way of look on technology, we can add: "thanks" to devil weapon/invention called web, internet, satan raised JW meetings and preaching on next level, scale - in virtual reality. You can stay at home and spread the word. Perhaps costs for organized preaching, as publisher, pioneer and missioner or for any other special service, will not require, for these reason, donation money in the future :))  
  15. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Quote @JW Insider "No one should be able to say, oh look at this war, "See here!" it is the greatest war ever seen, or "Look at this great earthquake, or famine, or pestilence, "
    But isn't that what the GB and CCJW do ?   Don't they misuse the sufferings of others to hype up their own agenda ? 
    Didn't a GB member say he was not bothered by this virus and that  'we were expecting it to happen' as part of a sign of the end times ? 
  16. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    I think you have just inadvertently admitted why Jesus was so dead-set against looking for signs indicating how close we were to the END. When people begin trying to use various ideas from world events or astrology or scriptural interpretations to figure out when the END should come, they begin to think it could easily take several years. This creates a tendency for imperfect humans to take advantage of the remaining time left.
    It's the reason why Jesus gave the parable of the unfaithful and indiscreet slaves in Matthew 24 and Luke 12:
    (Matthew 24:48-51) . . .But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.
    (Luke 12:44-48) . . .. 45 But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and starts to beat the male and female servants and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting him and at an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.
    Surely, this is why Jesus made a point to say that the END could come at any time, as a surprise, during a time you think NOT to be it. How much warning did the city of Sodom get in the days of Lot?
    (Luke 17:28-30) . . .Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of Sodʹom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.
    Also, note that the expression "that day when the Son of man is revealed" is parallel to the use of the word "parousia" in Matthew. So we know that the Parousia [revelation] must happen at a time when no one can predict the times and seasons, which are in the Father's jurisdiction. (Acts 1:6-8). Jesus emphasized that we cannot use current events like wars, earthquakes, pestilence as a way to figure out the parousia. He says we would see such things, and in that limited sense they were a kind of sign that the world would see both normal things and abnormal things right up until the end. (Pestilence in one place, but men saying everything is peaceful and secure in another place.) But they could NOT give us any knowledge about the timing of the parousia.
    (Luke 17:23, 24) . . .And people will say to you, ‘See there!’ or, ‘See here!’ Do not go out or chase after them. 24 For just as lightning flashes from one part of heaven to another part of heaven, so the Son of man will be in his day.
    [Note again that "the Son of man ... in his day" is the parallel to "parousia" in Matthew.]
    No one should be able to say, oh look at this war, "See here!" it is the greatest war ever seen, or "Look at this great earthquake, or famine, or pestilence, see there!" These things are going to happen, just like people going on with their lives: getting married, and eating and drinking and buying and selling is going to happen, too. But these are not "signs of the end." It's easy to get misled into believing such things, which is why Jesus had to warn us that this is not the Christian way to look at things.
    (Matthew 24:3-8) . . .“Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence [parousia] and of the conclusion [destructive END] of the system of things?” 4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning [not the end] of pangs of distress.
    We should expect that people will be saying "See Here!" and "See There!" about this or that pestilence or war or earthquake, etc. But this is no indication of the end. The end cannot be calculated, it could just as easily happen while people were acting as they generally have since the creation's beginning until now: eating, drinking, getting married:
    (Matthew 24:36-44) 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence [parousia] of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 “But know one thing: If the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.
    Note again, by the way, that the "day your Lord is coming" is paralleled with the "parousia of the Son of man." So we can't know when the parousia starts. The Parousia is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it. It's unchristian to try, and it's unchristian to use the mistake that the early disciples made as an excuse to make the same mistake today.
    (Acts 1:7) 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
  17. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in The heavenly resurrection begins after the fall of Babylon the Great   
    I can see being in isolation has cracked you lot up already 
    As for James' question :-
    If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him?
    Answer : Not right now because all meetings are cancelled. 
  18. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in The heavenly resurrection begins after the fall of Babylon the Great   
    My favorite circuit overseer—an old fellow—long ago said that he doesn’t argue with trinitarians. “I’ve never convinced one,” he said.
    I’m struck by the verse that has cropped up a few times recently on how ‘wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.‘ Trouble is, if you apply that verse to anyone, they just turn around and apply it to you, as Tom Henry discovers multiple times every week.
    Let whoever it is be firmly convinced in his own mind’ Paul said somewhere. It will have to be one of those things you leave in God’s hands, and see whether the blessings flow to wherever you have chosen to be. To quote an odd expression of Jesus: ‘where the carcass is, there the eagles will gather.’ Fine carcasses where i hang out, I think.
    My books—I think all of them—include contact information with the proviso that I’m not an arguer. “Sometimes people disagree. He can live with that,” I say in the third person of myself.
    God knows if he is a trinity or not. For atheists, he knows if he exists or not. For characters here, he knows if he has a ‘true anointed’ to pull from his sleeve or not. He knows if he is going to have all the heavenly bodies stand on their heads so we can draw conclusions or not. He knows if his home base is a Facebook page or not. I’ll preach truth as I know it and throw all the rest on his lap. He can handle it.
  19. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Such compassion and love...   
    This character is self-righteous. This way of saying how someone else's accident, illness and death need to exist in order to feed his believes and faith, to feel "right" about religious interpretations he offers as a leader of JW church.
  20. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Colin Browne in Contamination   
    But even in this horrific virus Tom you waste no time before you misuse it to your own gain.
    You are a writer, a story teller. And now you are using this Covid-19 to throw more bricks at non JWs.
    If the GB are also going to misuse the misery that people are suffering just to hype up their own viewpoint then you must expect criticism.  The Org, in one form or another, has been misusing world events to proclaim the 'last days' since the late 1800's. And according to JWI the last days started in 33 C. E.  Nearly 2,000 years of last days. 
    It's very sad if your brothers have died. It's very sad that anyone should die before reaching a good old age. But millions of people have been dying in lots of disasters for thousands of years. This is just one more disaster. Only the fact that each and every day is one day closer to Judgement time matters, not misusing disasters to make a false point. 
    And as for JWs being more obedient to government requirements, well here in UK they have still been meeting in people's houses. Small groups maybe, but still meeting. 
    Quote "The trick is to allow other viewpoints to exist besides your own. Tolerance. "
    Although you write this I don't think you believe it or practice it 
  21. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "THERE'S MORE MONEY GOING OUT, THAN COMING IN"...Except for Stephen Lett   
    I can't imagine even one exjw being jealous of Stephen Lett.  It's not about jealously.  It's about hypocrisy, which is the opposite of righteousness.  
  22. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "THERE'S MORE MONEY GOING OUT, THAN COMING IN"...Except for Stephen Lett   
    I don't believe the maker of the video was showing jealousy; but instead, he was showing your leader  up as a hypocrite.  As this video also shows, about the vow of poverty that all in Bethel are under, including the governing body.
     
     
  23. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in "THERE'S MORE MONEY GOING OUT, THAN COMING IN"...Except for Stephen Lett   
    Many of what you said is in place. Western capitalism in US is different than in Europe. And many of us we who live in Europe are blessed by been born and live here. 
    How people making money for living is interesting to discuss. I think how, generally said, the bigger money that some individual making can also can be connected with more people who have less  for living. I am going to idealistic sphere, of course, but we can agree how people not need necessary to drive Mercedes, when also exists cheaper cars to buy. Yes, some people can afford to have "holiday property next to sea or mountain". But, if you or any other JW and GB "preaching" how spiritual "things" are what really matters ...than what is a point to have another house, and invest more money to have it, to keep it??? You need to earn more  money to buy and to hold second house. In the same time some other people can't afford even basic things for life. System is wrong, we can agree. But we making system to live, and we make decision to have holiday property and with that contribute to injustice, generally. 
    I guess,Abraham and Jacob working hard, but in the same time support slavery and material imbalance of society. Is that "God's blessings"? or just old world system?? :))
    What S. Lett supporting? By words and by silence about this and that aspects about material things in own family.
     
     
  24. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Kosonen in "THERE'S MORE MONEY GOING OUT, THAN COMING IN"...Except for Stephen Lett   
    @Arauna Hi, nice to hear something from you!
    And we should be cautious with examples in the OT (OldTestament). Jesus came with new commandments and much in the OT is not for Christians. The attitude toward money and richess is very different.
    Its like the OT's permission to divorce. There was a reason God allowed it. Much of the difference was because the light had yet to get brighter. And it did with Jesus' arrival.
  25. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Kosonen in "THERE'S MORE MONEY GOING OUT, THAN COMING IN"...Except for Stephen Lett   
    I had gathered some scriptures about material things:
     
    Mark 10:21  Jesus looked at him and felt love for him and said, “One thing is missing about you: Go, sell what things you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come be my follower.” 22  But he grew sad at the answer and went away grieved, for he had many possessions. 23  After looking around, Jesus said to his disciples: “How difficult it will be for those with money to enter into the Kingdom of God!”y 24  But the disciples were surprised at his words. Jesus then responded: “Children, how difficult it is to enter into the Kingdom of God! 25  It is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.”
     
    Mark 4:18  There are still others that are sown among the thorns. These are the ones who have heard the word, 19  but the anxieties of this system of things and the deceptive power of riches and the desires for everything else make inroads and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

     
    Matthew 6:19 “Stop storing up for yourselves treasures on the earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal. 20  Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21  For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22  “The lamp of the body is the eye. If, then, your eye is focused, your whole body will be bright. 23  But if your eye is envious, your whole body will be dark. If the light that is in you is really darkness, how great that darkness is! 24  “No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Riches.
     
    Luke 12:19  and I will say to myself: “You have many good things stored up for many years; take it easy, eat, drink, enjoy yourself.”’ 20  But God said to him, ‘Unreasonable one, this night they are demanding your life from you. Who, then, is to have the things you stored up?' 21  So it goes with the man who stores up treasure for himself but is not rich toward God.”
     
    1 John 2: 15  Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16  because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world.
     
    James 1:9  But let the lowly brother rejoice over his exaltation, 10  and the rich one over his humiliation, because like a flower of the field he will pass away. 11  For just as the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the plant, and its flower falls off and its outward beauty perishes, so too the rich man will fade away in the midst of his pursuits.
     
    James 5:1 Come, now, you rich men, weep and wail over the miseries that are coming upon you. 2  Your riches have rotted, and your clothing has become moth-eaten. 3  Your gold and silver have rusted away, and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh. What you have stored up will be like a fire in the last days. 4  Look! The wages you have withheld from the workers who harvested your fields keep crying out, and the cries for help of the reapers have reached the ears of Jehovah of armies. 5 You have lived in luxury and for self-gratification on the earth. You have fattened your hearts on the day of slaughter. 6  You have condemned; you have murdered the righteous one. Is he not opposing you?
     
    2 Timothy 6:6 To be sure, there is great gain in godly devotion along with contentment. 7  For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. 8 So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things.
    9  But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. 10  For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains.
     
    Philippians 4:12 I know how to be low on provisions and how to have an abundance. In everything and in all circumstances I have learned the secret of both how to be full and how to hunger, both how to have an abundance and how to do without. 13  For all things I have the strength through the one who gives me power.
     
    Revelation 2:9  ‘I know your tribulation and poverty—but you are rich….
     
    Revelation 3:17  Because you say, “I am rich and have acquired riches and do not need anything at all,” but you do not know that you are miserable and pitiful and poor and blind and naked, 18  I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may become dressed and that the shame of your nakedness may not be exposed, and eyesalve to rub in your eyes so that you may see.
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