Patiently waiting for Truth

If there was to be a reform by some miracle in my opinion
2 witness rule has to go
Shunning has to go
GB has to go
Jesus has to get his importance
And power and status has to go
Hours in the ministry has to go
And the secrecy and many rules has to go.
Cheers  4jah2me

If a person needs to be told by an Organisation that they have 'Free Will' to do something then in truth they DO NOT have Free Will at all, but are just doing as they are told by MEN. 
 Questions From Readers
How do Jehovah’s Witnesses view voting?
If a person even has to ask that question they show that they have no free will.
It is becoming more clear to me each day what a domineering Org, JW Org is. 
Surely if a question is asked it should have been 
How does God view voting ? 

4J:
You need to take some "memory pills".
My recognition of reality has been clearly stated for more than seven years here, without inhibition.
You are living in a fantasy world of unreasonable expectations .... one of which is that is you ask a series of questions that would take a five page essay to address ... chiefly because they are based in whole or part on false premises, or lack of common sense about the way hominoids behave in groups,, you think you are entitled to an answer that conforms to those unrealistic expectations.
You are not.
Try this:
Ask one single fact based question at a time,  not based on agenda driven false premises, in whole or in part ... and see if you get a reply.
...... also, ask for facts.
Opinions are like bodily orifices ( to paraphrase ...). Everyone has several.
 
 

But as the GB and JW Org are not inspired of God how will they ever know ?  

True religion is based on Truth from Christ, which results in those attributes.  Christ provides those who remain in him, with that wisdom.
But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, not hypocritical. 18 Moreover, the fruit of righteousness is sown in peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.
James 3:10-18 is all about the “wisdom” from God – His Word fulfilled in Christ who said,
 “My doctrine/”teaching” is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.  John 7:16,17
That doctrine is what we must be “ready to obey”.
“Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”  John 14:24
Jesus, as the Word, was the perfect example of displaying the "good qualities" sourced in Holy Spirit.  
 Isa 48:17 - Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:
“I am the Lord your God,
Who teaches you to profit,
Who leads you by the way you should go.
It is all about doctrine, teachings, fruit.  If we are not taught spiritual wisdom – TRUTH - from anointed “trees”, but instead are taught and practice the opposite of wisdom, which is foolishness revealed in falsehoods that come out of their mouth…and that we readily accept into our mind and heart... how can we say we practice righteous faith, love, joy that is acceptable to God?  (Micah 6:8)
A spring does not cause the fresh water and the bitter water to bubble out of the same opening, does it? 12 My brothers, a fig tree cannot produce olives, or a grapevine figs, can it? Neither can salt water produce fresh water. 13 Who is wise and understanding among you?
Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”  John 4:11
He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”  John 7:38
No one can produce “living water” from a clean heart, unless that heart has received truth and wisdom, from God through Christ. 
Has the GB who lead millions of people with their wavering teachings, received this truth and wisdom?  
 “Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding irreverent and empty speech and contradictions from what is falsely called knowledge. 21 By professing it, some people have departed from the faith. 1 Tim 6:20,21
 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?   Matt 5:46,47
The spirit of Christ is Truth.
“Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”  John 4:23,24
“We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.” 1 John 4:6
“This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.” 1 John 5:6
We learn the “good fruit” of the doctrine/teachings of Christ, in order to practice true religion - to worship God in the Spirit and in truth.  The Greek word for "religion" means "religious worship". 
 Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained from the world.  James 1:27
Mankind, he has told each of you what is good
and what it is the Lord requires of you:
to act justly,
to love faithfulness,
and to walk humbly with your God.  Micah 6:8
 

I kind of like this.
The ol pork chop comes through with the comment of the day, or the week, or possibly even the year.

I believe the NWT’s choice to use “fruitage” over “fruit” is deceiving.  It changes the intent of the scripture.
“Fruitage” indicates a process that leads to a result.  JWs believe their actions are the result of Holy Spirit within them.  The Greek word used is “karpos”, and is the same word used by Christ here:
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.  Matt 7:15-20
If a good “tree” cannot produce bad fruit, or a bad tree, good fruit, then the tree carries within it one sort of spirit – either from Jesus Christ as truth, or from Satan the liar.  John 8:44; John 16:13
Fruit represents teachings spoken by anointed “trees”. Ps 104:16; Ezek 47:12; Rev 11:4; Zech 4:12-14; Rev 22:2  Fruit produced by those who “remain” in Christ, imparts love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control within themselves and in those who ingest this fruit provided by Holy Spirit.
“ There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Eph 4:4
So, Gal 5:22,23 speaks of the blessings of “good fruit” from symbolic anointed “trees” who reside in Christ. John 15:1-4
"A good man ("tree") brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.  Luke 6:45
Doctrine in the WT changes continually, which indicates clearly that they are producing bad fruit. How can any JW deny this, if he or she reads Jesus' words?   The scriptures show us that the “fruitage” of the GB, will result in their downfall.  Rev 16:13,14; 19:20
"The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire." Matt 3:10
 
 
http://pearl-finetrees.blogspot.com/
 
 
 

Those of Rev 17:14  wouldn’t be there if they were not obedient to BOTH the Father and the Son. Have you read this lately?
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have know my Father also. From now on you know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Am I with you so long a time and you have not known me, Philip? The one who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father?’ 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from myself, but the Father residing in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if not, believe because of the works themselves.  John 14:6-11
And this?
  “Everyone who comes to me and listens to my words and does them—I will show you what he is like: 48 he is like a man building a house, who dug and went down deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood came, the river burst against that house and was not able to shake it, because it had been built well. 49 But the one who hears my words and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation, which the river burst against, and immediately it collapsed—and the collapse of that house was great!”  Luke 6:47-49
Your words could not be any more truthful about your GB.  If they set down “decrees” necessary to maintain the seamless operation of the organization; and you are expected to follow them, have you maintained “the spiritual stance of obedience to the almighty”, or have you become obedient to men’s teachings about “organization”?  How do they practice “hate and division”?  Through their malicious words against the anointed.  Through the prejudice act of disfellowshipping.  For marking one as dead, who reject the commandments of men. 
Jesus prophesied of this to happen.  If we obey Christ, we expect division to take place among our own people. Matt 24:9; 19:29; 16:25; Luke 12:51-53; Matt 5:10-12
And the Lord said,
“Because this people draw near with its mouth,
    and with its lips it honors me,
and its heart is far from me,
    and their fear of me is a commandment of men that has been taught,…
 
The JW heart, the foundation of their very soul, has men’s faulty doctrine harbored within it, and they keep drinking it in. Rev 8:10,11  To you, “truth” is relative according to what your GB/elders teach in each new year.  To me, “truth” comes strictly from Jesus Christ.  This, is what they should be teaching.  John 15:5   Anything they add or take away from Christ’s words, they add and take away from the ability of JWs to know the Father. Matt 23:13 They are adding and taking away from the Word of God in like manner of the Pharisees. 
“Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.”  Deut 4:2
 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”  Matt 19:17
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”   Matt 22:34-40
 What is the difference with “Israel’s" leaders today?  They wear a face of deception; that appears innocent and humble. Acts 20:29,30; 2 Cor 11:4,13-15  Yet, they are “wise in their own eyes”, not in the eyes of God.  Isa 5:21; Matt 24:4,5,24  They judge according to their commandments, just as the Pharisees did. Matt 23:4; 15:7-9   And they have the gall to compare themselves to Moses - a prophet of God.  
How dare these men defy the words of Christ.
… therefore look, I am again doing something spectacular
and a spectacle with this spectacular people.
And the wisdom of its wise men shall perish,
    and the discernment of its discerning ones shall keep itself hidden.”
15 Ah! Those who make a plan deep, to hide it from YHWH,
    and their deeds are in a dark place.
And they say, “Who sees us?
    And who knows us?”
16 Your perversity!
    As if a potter shall be regarded as the clay!
That the product of its maker says,
    “He did not make me,”
and the thing made into shape says of its potter,
    “He has no understanding.”  Isa 29:13-16
How arrogantly bold of the uninspired GB, to teach that their words supersede the words of Christ – who IS THE WORD OF GOD.  John 1:1 
“For wicked people are found among my people,
    they lie in wait like the hiding of fowlers,
they set up a trap,
    they catch humans. (Col 2:8; Rev 13:10)
27 Like a cage full of birds,
    so their houses are full of fraud.
Therefore they have become great,
    and they have become rich.
28 They have grown fat,
    they have grown sleek,
also, their evil deeds have no limit.
    They do not judge with justice,
the legal cause of the orphan,
    or allow it to succeed,
and the legal case of the poor,
    they do not defend.
29 Because of these things shall I not punish?” declares Yahweh,
    “and on a nation who is like this, shall I not take revenge?
30 A horrific event and something horrible has happened in the land.
31 The prophets prophesy falsely,
and the priests rule by their own authority,
and my people love it so much. (2 Thess 2:9-12)
    But what will you do when the end comes?  Jer 5:26-31
 
 
 
 

Perhaps some of us are thinking on more spiritual matters. 
And of course some of us do not live under the GB's CCJW rules.
Have a good day James. 

NEITHER ONE OF YOUR TWO COMMENTS ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
THEY MAY AS WELL HAVE BEEN COMMENTARIES ON THE FLAVOR OF BANANAS.
USELESS.

If the CCJW is going to be God's / Christ's chosen Organisation to bring humans through 
Armageddon / Judgement Day
What serious changes need to take place in it first ?
As you know my feelings are that neither God nor Christ can use the CCJW as it is. But I am seriously trying to think on a more spiritual level so I'm trying not to be biased. By reading many comments on this forum I've noticed that even those JWs that resolve to stay firmly in the 'Org', still have some feelings of discontent. 
So the question I'm asking is more to those JWs who are remaining 'faithful' to the CCJW and it's GB. 
Do you see the need for big changes in the way the CCJW is run ?
Do you really believe that God & Christ are happy with the CCJW as it is ?
I am not deviating from my belief of a 'true Anointed' being 'raised up' in these 'last day', but as I've said before that 'true anointed' could well be within the CCJW.
I'm keeping my mind 'open' to all manner of thoughts, whilst trying to, hopefully with God's guidance, find truth. 
However, I am of the opinion that 'new light' via the GB, will not provide the answers or right direction that is needed. But that is just my personal opinion, and I may be proven wrong................

Perhaps some of us are thinking on more spiritual matters. 
And of course some of us do not live under the GB's CCJW rules.
Have a good day James. 

Quote @Leander H. McNelly  " Maintain the spiritual stance of obedience to the almighty. "
The obedience to Almighty God is through Jesus Christ, not through CCJW / JW Org / GB. 
If a person honestly feels, through prayer and deep study and meditation on God's word, that the GB and the Watchtower / JW Org are wrong, then that person has to take action to break away from that 'bad association'. 
As to the promise in baptism, the JW Org baptism is not done in accordance to scripture. You will know that of course. 

Quote @Leander H. McNelly  " Maintain the spiritual stance of obedience to the almighty. "
The obedience to Almighty God is through Jesus Christ, not through CCJW / JW Org / GB. 
If a person honestly feels, through prayer and deep study and meditation on God's word, that the GB and the Watchtower / JW Org are wrong, then that person has to take action to break away from that 'bad association'. 
As to the promise in baptism, the JW Org baptism is not done in accordance to scripture. You will know that of course. 

Its behond reformed unfortunately in my honest opinion.
 

Probably because witnesses won't consider an action that was set by the pharisees to gain political power and influence. However, you don't need someone's permission JTR to vote. If someone see's you and makes it known to the elders in your congregation, it will be your own action on display, not someone else's. 

It has been a week since I have posted this ... and apparently NO ONE knows the answer.
Hmmmmmmm ......

I find this a strange thing to say.  None of us are "worthy" to receive an anointing.  It guarantees nothing. We can lose the "pouring out" of Holy Spirit.   Matt 7:15,16,18,19,20-22 ; Rom 5:5
Anointed are called, chosen and then found "faithful" to serve Christ.  1 Cor 1:9; 1 Pet 1:15; 2 Thess 2:13; 2 Pet 1:10; Luke 16:10; Matt 25:14,15; Rev 17:14
It is a journey of testing, purification and sanctification - a path of holiness that never ends.  Rev 22:11  
The question should be, will any of us anointed or not, be found "worthy" to receive eternal life; since all in the Kingdom will be called God's children.  
 

I do not see myself worthy of anointing, not worthy of life in a paradise earth. 
I realise that my sins stack up to the heavens..  Only through God's mercy and Christ's judgement will I even get a resurrection. But if I can do even the smallest of things to help God's purpose move forward then I will have been blessed. 

I do not see myself worthy of anointing, not worthy of life in a paradise earth. 
I realise that my sins stack up to the heavens..  Only through God's mercy and Christ's judgement will I even get a resurrection. But if I can do even the smallest of things to help God's purpose move forward then I will have been blessed. 

Oh @Anna you make me laugh. you really do. Are you so blind ?
Do you not know of the perversions and immorality in your CCJW ? 
Do you honestly think that Almighty God and/or Christ is guiding your GB and its org ?
I think that your GB are Christians in name only. I think that CCJW is Christian in name only.
You only have to look at the way the GB's Lawyers treat Victims of CSA. And look at how they are still hiding Paedophiles in the American part of your Org. 
And there have been plenty of things mentioned on this forum, mentioned by JWs it would seem, that show up the CCJW for what it really is. 
Going back a couple of years we had JWs on here telling how many weapons they have stored up in their homes. and one of those JWs seems to think that God is not bothered by war. 
I'm sure you have heard many JWs say things that you are not happy with, so please don't be so quick to judge others outside of CCJW. 
As a non active one, i can say that my faith in God and Christ is much stronger.  I feel 'free' to do my own investigating into God's word. i think in a more spiritual way. My prayers are not hindered. I am not putting my trust in men. I am not relying on being spoon fed every Sunday Watchtower which is only men's thoughts and words. Those thoughts and words which are not inspired of God. 
And you must remember too, that your GB and its org deliberately shun anyone that leaves the Org. So your GB and its Org members are also not showing love, mercy, mildness or kindness. 

Quote @JW Insider 
" So the primary purpose of God sending the spirit into the hearts of Christians, a kind of anointing by holy spirit, is so that we will produce the fruitage that grows from that spirit: ...."
No, I don't like this, it looks sly. You are suggesting here that ALL Christians are receiving an Anointing by Holy Spirit.  This seems to follow on from @Witness idea of all elders being part of the 144,000. 
I reject your idea here. 
Quote " But questioning everything would require every one of us to become scholars "
This is one of my points. What does God and Christ expect of us ? 
Quote " A major concern of yours has been that only a modern-day anointing by holy spirit will explain everything to us, and you always tend to push this off into the future, although you recognize that it is needed now. " 
I do not push it off into the distant future. The True Anointed may already exist, but maybe the time is not right for them to be used by God or Christ. If God/Christ intend to use the CCJW then that org needs to be cleaned out first. But the true Anointed could be within that org. It's not the anointing that would be new, its the use of those ones that would be new.. A bit like sleepers, spies in a foreign land, there in place just waiting for the signal. 
Quote ".. and that even those of us who do not consider ourselves "anointed" must strive for the same measure of this holy spirit as those who consider themselves "anointed."
I do not agree with this comment.  I think you are working with the new ideas of the GB it would seem. 
You will have everyone saying that they are the Body of Christ soon. 
(Galatians 3:29-5:26) . . .Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s [seed] offspring, heirs with reference to a promise. .. . . 3 Likewise, we too, when we were children, were enslaved by the elementary things of the world. 4 But when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent his Son, who was born of a woman and who was under law, 5 that he might release by purchase those under law, so that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Now because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, . 
This is purely for the Anointed. 
Enough for one comment. 

Thank you. I've just read it. It is very encouraging. 

Yes, it is true.  By reading Malachi 3, we can see that this “Elijah”/messenger stresses the purification from sin as John the Baptist did;  and the reuniting of God’s anointed priests, who are the Body of Christ:
“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.
2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. (Rev 3:18) Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness, 4 and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the Lord, as in days gone by, as in former years."
After the Jews were released from captivity of Babylon, Nehemiah, Ezra, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi and Zerubabbel, all had a part in the restoration of the Temple; which restored pure worship to the people.  The WT use to believe the anointed were an “Elijah class”; and through them, pure worship was restored:
2002/5/1 pg 22
 Malachi’s prophecy showed that this great Elijah work would be done before “the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah.” That day concludes with the rapidly approaching war of the great day of God the Almighty, at Armageddon. This means that the end of this wicked system of things and the beginning of the Millennial Reign of God’s heavenly Kingdom under the enthroned Jesus Christ would be preceded by a work corresponding to the activity of Elijah. True to that prophecy, before Jehovah destroys this wicked system, the modern-day Elijah class, supported by millions of fellow Christians with an earthly hope, enthusiastically carry on the work of restoring pure worship, exalting the name of Jehovah, and teaching Bible truths to sheeplike ones.
 
I believe it was in 2015, A mere thirteen years later, the “Elijah class” became defunct. From the book, “Jesus, the Way, the Truth, the Life” pg 145:
Elijah’s appearance in the vision raises a question. “Why,” the apostles ask, “do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” Jesus replies: “Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him.” (Matthew 17:10-12) Jesus is speaking about John the Baptist, who fulfilled a role similar to Elijah’s. Elijah prepared the way for Elisha, and John did so for Christ. 
There is no focus on an “Elijah” in the last days.  Deftly, they have dismissed both Matt 17:11 and Mark 9:12
11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things.
Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?”
Obviously, these scriptures were clearly observed in the Wt. for many years, but now, they choose not to recognize them; either from spiritual blindness, or self-preservation and survival of their idol.  I believe it to be both.  
These scriptures have to do with the anointed priests as the living temple.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6)  “Restoration” of God’s Temple today would require a bonding of the anointed, of which they are told not to do by GB/elders.  It would require their having a voice concerning whether teachings are in harmony with truth; which is impossible when they are not to “challenge” the GB’s decisions.   It would require their position as a priesthood as active, offering to God the “daily sacrifices” that were removed by the “Gentile” elder body that they presently must obey. (Dan 8:11)  Their bonding under one Head, Jesus Christ, would restore “pure worship” to the people.  (Mal 2:7) It would restore Truth in Christ. (John 15:4)
Instead, the temple has been given over to the “Gentile” elder body. (Ezek 44:6-9; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)
Restoration happens outside of the Wt through those anointed who been “killed” by the Beast/organization  (Rev 13:15; 11:13,7 ) They who join together in truth, are the “remnant” found faithful to Christ; yet, their spiritual "death" proves they are victorious over the "Beast".  (Rev 15:2-4)  
Ironically, the new book, Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored At Last! centers on Ezekiel’s prophesy and how to, “worship Jehovah in the way that he approves, bringing our lives into harmony with his lofty standards.” (from the letter from the GB)
When I think of the sins against victims of pedophiles alone, my stomach churns when reading such arrogance.  But also, have the organization’s leaders brought their lives into harmony with God’s “lofty standards” through Christ concerning God’s Temple?  If they were loyal to Christ and the Father, and not to themselves, they would not “beat their fellow slave” for rejecting their spiritual food – their spiritual ‘commerce’. Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11,16,17) They would “restore” God’s Temple, instead of trampling it down and causing “truth” to be thrown to the ground. (Dan 8:12)
Instead, the governing leaders promote their growing idol, built on a foundation of lies and 'blaspheming' God's Temple/sanctuary as they do so. (Matt 7:26; Rev 13:1,2,5-8)
Prophets are part of God’s Temple foundation (Eph 2:20-22); the apostles as prophets as well as all the prophets from old.  They spoke God’s truth, which is what the “city of God”, "New Jerusalem" is – a holy "city" of Truth. 
This is what the LORD says: “I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the LORD of Hosts will be called the Holy Mountain.”  Zech 8:3
The “Elijah”/"Moses" Jesus sends in the last days is spoken of in Rev 11:1-3.  The result of that one’s call and all who join this “Elijah”, "measure” the Temple by speaking Christ's truth.  Each member/living stone is “measured” in this way, proving their worth before God.   
They are measured according to God’s standards of Truth, through Jesus Christ, not according to those of men. (Matt 25:1-13)
Dear Kosonen, I hope that you, as a “living stone” of  God’s Temple, (1 Pet 2:5,9) perceive that this restoration is more important than anything occurring within in the world of politics and religion.
 
 
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/two-witnesses-elijah-and-moses.html