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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    Thanks!
    Geoffrey Jackson testimony before ARC in 2015 about, how every (average) JW in the world can, may and want, by individual reading of own Bible to see possible errors made by GB and WT  published doctrines and be disobey or even to give personal Amendment on instruction and doctrine - IS statement FOR secular public ONLY.
    Why this particular "inspirational teaching" and "public testimony" never been presented on JW TV as Public Call to Brotherhood for sending Letters to HQ about some issues they have with "spiritual food"? 
  2. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    Perhaps some JW's think more and some think less. Nothing is wrong with that. We have different minds and different reactions on "propaganda", mine or WT's. 
    JW members put trust in GB who put trust in Jesus who put trust in JHVH and vice versa JHVH put trust in Jesus who put trust in GB and that is reason for every JW's to put trust in GB. Gerrit Lösch made clear propaganda manipulation on JW TV about this. I don't have no need about own judgement because GB member GL made general judgement with own public presentation. He showed how GB are in need to be trusted by members and how members have to be dependable on every "spirit that coming from their mouth" - because Jesus trust them. :)))
    You mentioned ARC lawyer. How can you blame Angus Stewart's tactic with G. Jackson and in the same time don't see "tactics and methods" made by GB members in many fields, about religious doctrines and secular, courts issues???   
  3. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    I'm not sure what you meant was so special about "since at least 1950" and the remark about "when the Watchtower was in full control." But there were a couple times between 1976 and 1982 when all the various Branch Overseers were flown in to Bethel, for several weeks at a time, and there were special times set aside when many of the Branch Overseers would give talks and give experiences. Some of the local NYC congregations also gave up their Sunday talk, and sometimes a "Book Study" meeting to replace it with talks and experiences from them. Some added a Saturday night meeting. I must have heard at least 40 different Branch speakers, and I even invited a couple of them to a congregation in Queens and once accompanied an overseer and his wife to a meal there. Most of them reminded me of "District Overseers" who had worked their way up from Gilead missionaries to "elders" to "Circuit Overseers." I got a good impression of their humility and love for the brothers in their various countries. I was very impressed with the fact that, even though they were all white American/European, they were clearly involved so closely with the brothers and sisters in their various assignments that they saw themselves not as paternalistic, patronizing "leaders," but humble servants.
    But I also never got the impression that any one of them would ever have questioned a doctrine coming from headquarters. I doubt that any would have ever recommended a change to a doctrine. Doctrines were never part of their talks except to highlight how loyal the local brothers always were to any articles about neutrality, etc.
    4Jah2me has just reminded us of the mistake Rutherford made about "superior authorities" which was not corrected back to Russell's view until the 1960's. And it made me think that hundreds of brothers, like branch overseers, district overseers, circuit overseers, and elders (whether anointed or not) could easily have known that the teaching was wrong. It seems impossible that any Witness anywhere could read the Bible and not see that this was a mistake. But none of these persons, evidently, had the idea that it would be OK to mention the need to correct this doctrine.
  4. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    Oh CC what big lies you tell. Quote "In my experience .... "
    Well it just proves you don't have much experience then doesn't it, or that you just tell lies because the GB say its ok to tell lies.  
    Quote "What you are claiming here is nothing more than ex-witness propaganda.."
    That was the same excuse that the GB used about Child Sexual Abuse.
    Quote "First and foremost, every true witness is loyal to God not Elders, or the GB"
    If a person is loyal to God they would not be a JW at this present time. What does truth have to do with lies, or morality with immorality. You cannot serve two masters.
    Quote "and since the GB are a central body of spiritual men that give spiritual direction, .."
    Um, how can the GB give spiritual direction as they are not inspired or guided by God or Christ ?
    Stupidity such as the 'Overlapping generations' proves it. And more seriously the 'Two witness rule' for Child Sexual Abuse. 
    Quote " to follow that spiritual direction unless someone can show just cause biblically there is an error in scriptural application." 
    I just have, twice.
    I do fully understand that many 'boots on the ground' congregants can be lovely people, and may even have the best intentions. I do not think all JWs are paedophiles or criminals or actually bad people, but the problems come from those that are in complete control. The GB / Lawyers, then down from the hierarchy ranks to the Circuit Overseers and Elders.  None of them seem to question anything. They seem to act like zombies or robots. I think its mainly because of fear of losing position, power, rank, family and friends. 
    And the boots on the ground congregants can only eat what they are fed from the JW  table. Because its all they know. 
     
     
  5. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    As we see, it is very well known in JWorg , who can be that "someone" who are "entitled" to show error or give spiritual application, direction and clarification. That is GB.
    So, please. G. Jackson showed only "art of conversation" with ARC. But because video of his (or any of GB members and WT lawyers depositions and documentations)  will never be revealed on JW TV, it is very clear who want to have last word in conversation and not want to put words on day light for every JW member to see, to hear. 
  6. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    " Quote every single line of it, (the Shepherd the Flock book ) if you like, and it will simply show a people taking the lead who are determined to follow scripture in doing so. 
    What it shows is 'a people' (Elders ) taking orders from 8 men in America, of whom none are inspired of Holy Spirit. Therefore none of them truly understand the meanings of the scriptures at all. This is clearly shown by the Two Witness rule, by the no blood/ blood fractions rule, by the accusation of fornication toward brothers and sisters that are just friends. By the shunning rules, the false reasons for disfellowshipping, the list is never ending. 
    " so that if you actually kept up and immersed yourself in scripture and what had been published for the general congregation "
    Well if a person immersed themselves in scripture they would soon find how the GB and the JW Org misuse scripture to suit their own agenda. 'This Generation' comes to mind, and 'Superior Authorities' in the past.
    But if a person 'kept up' with 'what had been published for the general congregation', all they would get is more of the same falsehood, lies, mistakes, which the GB admit to. ( not inspired so may err ) . 
    So, trying to play the Shepherding book down doesn't cut it. It just proves you are a company man Tom. 
     
     
  7. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    " Quote every single line of it, (the Shepherd the Flock book ) if you like, and it will simply show a people taking the lead who are determined to follow scripture in doing so. 
    What it shows is 'a people' (Elders ) taking orders from 8 men in America, of whom none are inspired of Holy Spirit. Therefore none of them truly understand the meanings of the scriptures at all. This is clearly shown by the Two Witness rule, by the no blood/ blood fractions rule, by the accusation of fornication toward brothers and sisters that are just friends. By the shunning rules, the false reasons for disfellowshipping, the list is never ending. 
    " so that if you actually kept up and immersed yourself in scripture and what had been published for the general congregation "
    Well if a person immersed themselves in scripture they would soon find how the GB and the JW Org misuse scripture to suit their own agenda. 'This Generation' comes to mind, and 'Superior Authorities' in the past.
    But if a person 'kept up' with 'what had been published for the general congregation', all they would get is more of the same falsehood, lies, mistakes, which the GB admit to. ( not inspired so may err ) . 
    So, trying to play the Shepherding book down doesn't cut it. It just proves you are a company man Tom. 
     
     
  8. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    BUT all JWs are supposed to be equal. No clergy class or all clergy class .  All brothers. 
    No hierarchy. And it's supposed to be 'the truth'.  So why would you need hidden information ? 
    After all its not supposed to be an organisation of the world is it ? 
    But remember Tom the whole Elders book is available to read online so we know it is a 'smoking gun'. 
     
  9. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    Be murdered or be killed ... for victim is the same end. 
  10. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    It is OBVIOUS to me that Jehovah does not consider warfare to be murder ... and I have no wars planned, or any murders planned .... I am just trying to understand the theocratic legal principle of WHY?.
    As far as I know ... no nation on Earth considers warfare to be the same as premeditated murder, either ....  although it is premeditated killing of humans.
    They are using the same criteria that Jehovah God established millennia ago .... and which will be used at Armageddon.
    OTHERWISE....
    Jehovah God would be a murderer.
    See the problem?
     
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    I agree, again.
    But why would words that carry Moral and Ethical obligation for all (elders and rank and file members),  ... why there is a need for such selection about "spiritual food" for elders that is not allowed to be read by all other members ("Shepherd book" is what i have in mind at moment)? 
     
     
     
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    BUT all JWs are supposed to be equal. No clergy class or all clergy class .  All brothers. 
    No hierarchy. And it's supposed to be 'the truth'.  So why would you need hidden information ? 
    After all its not supposed to be an organisation of the world is it ? 
    But remember Tom the whole Elders book is available to read online so we know it is a 'smoking gun'. 
     
  13. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    In any organization of any sort, there is always information not meant for general distribution. That does not mean that it is thereby the ‘smoking gun.’
  14. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in "The Witnesses"   
    It is too bad that those without tv cannot see the two presentations, since even the first youtube link is now gone.  I will try to finish watching  "Part 2" @JJJ-AUSTRALIA , using your link.  Thank you.
    This is a comment by someone who watched both presentations.
     
    "I Watched "The Witnesses" on the Oxygen Channel this past weekend. I thought after 35 years as a "Jehovah's Witness" that I knew how bad the shielding of pedophiles was within the organization. How wrong I was. The depth of this crime is extremely disturbing. Not reporting. Destroying evidence. This program , although it only shows the tip of the iceberg, paints a very disturbing picture indeed. As a "witness' we were encouraged to obey the laws of the land. Don't speed while driving and obey all traffic laws. Don't cheat on your taxes. Don't even steal a pencil or paper from your job. Jesus aptly described this Watchtower Organization when he said "They strain out the gnat, but they gulp down the camel" ( Matthew 23:. 4 "You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.")
    Yes the Watchtower indeed tries to exhibit a squeaky clean image, with a form of Godly devotion, but they prove false to it's power.
    How does trying to keep the organization "clean" by reporting child rapist pedophiles to the police bring reproach on God and the organization? Does it not seem to you that the pedophile who rapes the child is the one bringing the reproach?
    If Adultery is wrong and other unclean practices are wrong, then certainly rape of a child is a much worse crime. It is a crime that according to Deuteronomy 22:25 is equal to murder.
    (25... if the man encounters a..young.woman in the open country, and he overpowers her and rapes her, only the man who has done this must die. 26 Do nothing to the young woman, because she has committed no sin worthy of death. This case is just like one in which a man attacks his neighbor and murders him.) (TWO WITNESSES WERE NOT NEEDED)
    Yes these hypocrites strain out the "unclean gnat" but gulp down an entire "unclean camel"
    If someone broke into their Kingdom Hall and stole a photo copier, the elders would call the police without a moment’s hesitation. They would not ask the organization's legal department for directions. For something so petty as that these hypocrites call the police, but not for the rape of a child?
    Even if they are not mandated reporters of child sex abuse, there certainly is no law that prohibits the reporting of child sex abuse and rape....and yet the Watchtower chooses to not report the crime and even to destroy incriminating evidence that exposes the depth of their depravity. Do they think that God is unable to see this? Their day of reckoning is approaching."  Obadiah Doxsey
    I can't remember Trey Bundy's words exactly, but he said he had never seen an organization keep such a meticulously, huge file system not only on wrongdoings, but on each person the minute they become a JW. This includes children and their spiritual milestones growing up. As far as wrongdoings, it struck me how sick and contrary that is according to the scriptures. If we are repentant for any sin, God says - “I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isa 43:25
    What the organization has done, is disfellowshipped VICTIMS of another's wrongdoings. They call the victim the sinner!  They have disfellowshipped pedophiles, only to reinstate them at a later point to do more harm - more destruction.  
    Deut 27:19 - “Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.”
    Here is another person's reaction to the comment above:
     
    "In reading these comments this morning it caused me to want to review their book ' Learn from the great teacher ', a book they published in 2003 aimed at children, remembering they had a chapter discussing child molestation. The chapter is titled 'How was Jesus protected', it parallels Jesus and his family fleeing to Egypt to escape the wrath of King Harod with child molestation. Go figure. Interestingly, a paragraph on page 170 reads, 'So just as Jesus needed protection,you also need to be protected from grownups-and even from other children- who may try to have sex with you. Usually, these people will pretend to be your friends. They may even offer you something if you promise not to tell others about what they want to do with you. But these people are selfish, like satan and his demons,and they only want pleasure for themselves. '

    Isn't this exactly what their policies promote? If you don't tell, you can keep your family, social network , free from the public 'molestation ' that will follow if you do expose this crime?
    Page 6, paragraph 3, reads,' Heartbreaking things can and do happen when children do not receive help until it's to late.' This documentary it a testament to that very statement. How many have been destroyed, physically,emotionally, and spiritually by their selfish pleasure seeking as an organization?
    They blamed Dinah, in Genesis chpt.34 for getting raped every time I heard the recounting of the story at the meetings, they still victim blame." 
    If the organization truly practiced love, there would be no reason to hide and destroy documents.  There would be no victims who are destroyed. 
    Obadiah made the comment, "How does trying to keep the organization "clean" by reporting child rapist pedophiles to the police bring reproach on God and the organization? Does it not seem to you that the pedophile who rapes the child is the one bringing the reproach?"
    There is no loving soundness, no "rhyme or reason", to their methods. All I can see is Satan, his demons, and their lusts, steering the ship. I kept thinking of the fallen "sons of God" who took women for their wives, when listening to the horrid accounts given by the women in the program. Gen 6:1-5 The result? "The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 
    Committing child abuse is evil.  Harboring the abuser is evil.  Condemning the victim is evil.  Hiding the facts is evil.  Defending one's evil actions in the court system, is abhorrent.  There is NO love practiced in the organization.
    "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 IT DOES NOT DISHONOR OTHERS, IT IS NOT SELF-SEEKING, it is not easily angered, IT KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 IT ALWAYS PROTECTS, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." 1 Cor 13:4-7
     
     
     
     
     
  15. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    "...it would not be unchristian to report the matter to the authorities.."
    All people sometimes need advice, support, opinions on some of the things they are facing. It is evident from this segment that the WT Organization has raised generations of members who seeking permission for some activity in their own lives because they do not dare to make decisions on their own, without organization, which perhaps may "embarrass God and his visible organization."
    Would it be interesting to find out how that came about? Why can't members exist without their leaders and their instructions, and why can't leaders stop deciding for their members?
     
    :))) general distribution
  16. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    Our warfare now is only spiritual.   
    However, the entire world under satan's control is still committing pre-meditated murder by training to kill others in war.   Jehovah will judge  each one of them if they do not repent by taking advantage of Jesus' ransom sacrifice.
    The world and its war will soon disappear when jehovah removes all those who benefit from war.
     
  17. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    I was pretty sure you had already broken into the Watchtower HQ and added the last sentence to a paragraph in a very recent Watchtower we just studied: (November 2019)
    *** w19 November p. 17 par. 13 Are You Maintaining Your “Large Shield of Faith”? ***
    13 Imagine the scene. A group of soldiers spend the morning training with their swords, but one of their company is missing. That soldier is in town setting up a food shop. In the evening, the soldiers spend time inspecting their armor and sharpening their swords. But the one who owns the shop spends his time preparing food to sell the next day. The next morning, however, an enemy launches a surprise attack. Which soldier is more likely to act appropriately and earn the approval of his commanding officer? And whom would you want standing beside you—a soldier who focused on being prepared or the one who was distracted?
  18. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    g=Awake! (g refers to fact that Awake! started out as the Golden Age)
    93 is the Year, then 4/8 means month and day. (Awake! in those days came out on the 8th and 22nd of every month)
    So it's the April 8, 1993 Awake! magazine, page 31.
    w=Watchtower, which works the same way, except that the Watchtower, until very recently, came out on the 1st and 15th of every month.
    lv=Keep Yourself In God's Love, a publication that was released in 2014.
    You can find the full list on the Watchtower Library "CD" which can be downloaded from jw.org.
  19. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Modern Society and Censorship   
    It is odd, but not at all inappropriate, and certainly not illegal to yell " CINEMA !! "... in a crowded Fire Station..
  20. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Modern Society and Censorship   
    Why 1980?
  21. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    Only one activity? (although there are more) The very activity that brings people to consider suicide?  The very activity that brings WT’s sins to light – before the world’s eyes? The very activity that breaks up families?  We’re not talking about just a few people who have suffered from this “one” activity, but thousands.  I’m not referring to gross sin such as murder, where that someone that should be in jail.  Or pedophilia, where that someone, should also be in jail (but we know in innumerable cases, is not).    
    It is men, unrighteously judging men as in the case of Ray Franz – one of thousands who met with the same outcome for rejecting lies.  Who is at the root of this judgment, this decree, but those who set the guidelines for it?  Rev 13:11,12
    John 16:3,4 – “They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4 I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them.
    “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them”  Matt 7:15,16a
    We recognize them by their teachings, their human doctrines, that always fail. Jesus warned of those who would carry out John 16:2, and that they are “false prophets” found “among” his anointed ones – his “elect”. 
    Another way it is said,
     “For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect”  Matt 24:24
    The love shown for one another in the organization is conditional.  It is not the love that Christ taught through his teachings. 
    "If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?"   Matt 5:46,47
    Only through the complete anointed Body of Christ's priests, would love be manifested by the utilization of their gifts of Holy Spirit.  They would be teaching the people God’s laws in Christ.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rom chapter 12.  They would not be removed for disagreeing with the GB.  Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11,12,15   If the Body was working as one under Christ, showing love and respect toward each other, everyone would benefit from that love and guidance. 
    But, instead, a huge army of “Gentile” elders stumble over their judgments and cause families to be crushed. Joel 1:3-9; Rev 9:7-10  It would be disingenuous to realize this, and then dismiss it by saying, “but sometimes we must forgive them”, and that it is an act of sacred service, a “Christian duty”.   No!  Not at all.  It is blasphemy.  It is blindness to Christ’s teachings and God's standards toward His priesthood.   Sacred service is to be offered by God’s priests of His Temple, not by those who claim to “represent” them; trampling them into submission. Ezek 44:6-9; Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2  For those elders who cry, I hope beyond hope, that they wake up, and remove themselves from the organization. They are working against their conscience, why?  Out of fear of losing status?  Out of fear of losing family?  Why do they cry?
    God sees all of this.  He sees victims of a prejudiced justice system that destroys.  Jesus knew his people would come against an authority that would unrighteously judge them. Satan is behind it, and God allows it.  Luke 22:31; 2 Thess 2:9-12
    I’ve quoted this before, and I remember once you also did, I suppose when warning of what the organization should not be like, but correct me if I'm wrong.  
    “A dispute also arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. 25 Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles (“Gentile” elder body) lord it over them (over  JWs); and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors (GB). 26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.” 
    To be “like that” obviously, is not based on Christ’s love.  But, it is “like that” – exactly like that – in the organization.  Luke 22:24-27  The “Gentile” elder kings lord it over JWs, and those who exercise authority over the elders, are the members of the GB - “Benefactors”. 
    People in the world are not blind to the organization’s hypocrisy.  It is the majority of JWs who refuse to see it.  For those few who do see it, one must ask why they support hypocrisy. 
     Beasts are known to destroy.  Dan 7:23; 8:10; Rev 13:1,2,5-8,11,12,14-18
     
     
     http://pearl-sign.blogspot.com/
     
     
     
  22. Sad
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    I don’t have the book. I could get it, but I haven’t. I once served as an elder, but that was 20 years ago. I know precious few in Bethel and I keep up with nobody there.
    An advantage to all this is that I can come across as a regular person. Another reason that I have been slow to leave the open forum for the closed one—and would not if there was more of a range of personalities here—is that I don’t like to be just singing to the choir. I like the challenge of discussing mature Witness topics, such as submission to authority, before people who find the notion very strange because it does not reflect the way the world is today.
    Many Witnesses are not much good at speaking with non-Witnesses without going into ‘preaching mode.’ I even had someone shush me upon spotting the RING internet doorbell. “What! Do you think I’m telling dirty jokes here?” I said. “I hope he does hear me talking about regular things because then he will know that I am a regular person.”
    I will say, however—and this is only for 4Jah’s consumption—that after I served as a congregation elder I was whisked away to Bethel where I am now such a high-up secretive honcho that even the Bethelites you see on TV do not know me. They sense my presence, of course, at times the force is quite strong, but they can’t quite identify me in my deep state top assignment.
    You’ve got it all wrong, CC. I am his father and if he ever successfully completes the assignments I’ve given him—I never saw a pupil drag his feet the way he does!—we will rule together
     

  23. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    Jesus changed everything.  The law was a ' tutor' to christ.   So now we must love our neighbours as he did.  He gave his life for his friends  - we must be able to do the same. 
    If I love you in this way and you love me in this way, the world will be a wonderful place. However, most people are not prepared to give up their own ego and their own selfish goals to serve Christ properly -  let alone give their life for someone else. 
    If you are prepared to give your life it actually means you value their life  as your own..... giving more than what is expected. 
    James 4: 1 "What is the source of the wars and fights among you? Do they not originate from your fleshly desires that carry on a conflict within you"
  24. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    JW Org pretends not to have clergy - laity distinction.
    And some of the anointed are female whilst here on earth. It seems that spirit persons do not have a gender.
    However, were all angels that appeared as humans on earth, men ?  
    Quote Srecko. " BUT all are (male and female) ordained ministers. :))"  Um, but is this after they are baptised, or is it when they put in a Report sheet for doing ministry ? 
    The plot thickens. 
  25. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    Before Matt 5:48 –
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
     
    What makes an individual “perfect” according to these scriptures?  Love, which fulfills the law.  Can you see the WT leaders practicing anything that Jesus stated in these scriptures?  JWs are taught to love their own.   If anyone is ousted, they are considered “dead”. John 16:2; Rev 13:15 Those who leave the organization are mostly wiped out of the brain of their loved ones.  Do the leaders of the WT love their brothers and sisters in Christ if these ones approach their leaders about their flaws in understanding scriptures…if they suggest that their doctrine is wrong?   What happened to Ray Franz?  Is the label of “apostate”, called loving one’s neighbor as yourself?  Ray Franz did not sin; yet the proverbial sword came down upon him, and he was labeled as “dead”. 
    “Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous.”  1 John 3:12
    The only example JWs have for the production of “fruit”, is that of their leaders who claim to be anointed. The scriptures in Matt 7 pertain to teachings.  The anointed are “inspired” by Holy Spirit – it is “poured” into one’s heart.  Rom 5:5  If that gift is not used, one can lose it.  Matt 25:19-30 The reason the GB admit they are not inspired, is because the leaders of the organization made judgment calls not based on Holy Spirit’s guidance, but on their own speculation – their own wisdom, and not that of Christ. They have to hide the fact somehow, so the falsehood is created that anointed are not inspired.  The truth is, they have lost Holy Spirit that was once in their heart.  1 Pet 2:8; 2 Pet 3:17; 1 John 2:19; Rev 8:10,11
    They are your only examples of receiving any “fruit” that they claim is derived from Christ.  Matt 24:24
    Our own assumptions, actions, attitudes can lead to sin.  Paul and Barnabas had an argument over Mark.  Yet, both men spoke the truth of Christ. Obviously, love won out because Mark was mentioned by Paul later on.  Refinement from sin takes time. Learning obedience to the Father and Jesus doesn’t happen overnight.  Even Jesus was “perfected” through his endurance while on the earth.  Not that he sinned, but that he “learned obedience”:
    “Although he was the Son, he learned obedience from what he suffered. 9 After he was perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him”  Heb 5:8,9
    “he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death -- even to death on a cross.”  Phil 2:8
    Two things appear to bring about perfection.  Loving one another, and obeying God’s laws fulfilled in Christ.  They are tied together.  Mark 12:28-31
    "I sanctify myself for them, so that they also may be sanctified by the truth.”  John 17:19
    “Sanctify” - to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate
    “All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. 1 John 5:17,18
    Are the WT leaders “sanctified/purified by the truth” through their obedience to Christ’s direction?  Not if they teach falsehoods and excuse them as minor bumps on the historical road of the WT’s existence! (G. Jackson’s latest with the barking dog)  Not if they refuse to budge on falsehoods set in place.    
    Even though Jesus had to learn obedience to the Father, he still taught only truth from God while on earth. He is our pattern to follow.   (Col 2:5; 2 Tim 1:7; Titus 1:8; Rev 3:19) The Holy Spirit is the source of truth. John 16:3  Preaching falsehoods is evidence of an anointed one segregated from the vine of Christ.  No one can claim to be a “faithful slave” of Christ, if they preach an untruth!
    “Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.”  John 15:4-8
    Once again, this “fruit” is speaking about truth from God.  A faithful one in Christ will produce truth sourced in Holy Spirit which flows from the vine, to the branches – to the heart. 
    A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.  Luke 6:45
    It is important to remember that the anointed have inscribed upon their hearts, the laws of God; again, fulfilled in love.  Heb 8:10; Rom 13:8; Gal 5:14   Additional rules, laws, regulations, staunch adherence to the “two witness rule”, are not the workings of the Holy Spirit, but purely the admonitions made by men.  The organization carries around two bibles – one, barely used but is “inspired” by God, and one totally leaned upon, and is inspired by the hearts and minds of men.   
    "They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.'"  Matt 15:9
    "These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings."  Col 2:22
    The two "bibles" combined, will not work for the common good, as is evident in the court system today.  

     
     
     
     
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