Patiently waiting for Truth

Anna, this is a cop-out.  

WT Society teaching is: Jesus as King came INVISIBLE, Kingdom is INVISIBLE.
How it is possible and reasonable to give statement how WTJWorg VISIBLE buildings give TANGIBLE proof about INVISIBLE Kingdom?
To say how visible people who put faith in King Jesus and his Kingdom ARE PROOF makes more sense and would be understandable. Because faith as such, is individual proof of invisible things.... according to Heb 11. 
If people are moved, by faith, to building churches, to go in missionary service, not participate in wars ...etc, i will not consider that as proof that Kingdom exist, but as proof that YOU are BELIEVER. That YOU believe in this, sort of invisible, reality.

Wow if the society's buildings and branches is proof what about the Mormons 100 billion bank account thats way more tangible proof to me then 😆😆😆
 
 

I will let you guys discuss this among yourselves. You seem pretty adamant at twisting what was really being said there, and no amount of logical reasoning will change your minds 😊.

I know you said you are not very educated. Well I will explain it to you.  Obviously Satan does not have control of God. But you are forgetting that the punishment for disobedience was death, and as I already mentioned above, this included God removing his blessings from mankind in general. Therefore: "Satan, by his action, deprived all humans of God's protective power" is obviously meant that God would carry out his sentence, as he said he would, not that Satan was controlling God to carry out the sentence. In other words, it was God's own righteous principles and a promise God couldn't break (because God cannot lie) that caused God to keep his word and punish by removing his blessings and protection. And it was Satan's fault because he lied, and caused the first human couple to obey him instead of God and thereby incur God's punishment. 
Some advice for you as well; try to differentiate between what is obviously meant in a manner of speaking and what is meant to be taken literally.
I can see you sitting at your computer trying to think up another ridiculous argument. Now don't worry, I can't literally  "see you" so no need to close the curtains!
 
 

In theory, I llke these remarks. In practice, I’m not sure that I do as much.
Didn’t you say that you did not go to meetings but that you thought it was a good thing that your wife and children did? This doesn’t quite make sense to me. If your wife and children are going to meetings then they will be dubious of your efforts to make disciples of Jesus out of them. They will say that Jesus leads his earthly organization that you have separated yourself from—exactly the terms of which either you have never said or I missed it. For now, I will assume that you have simply gone inactive with regard to the congregation that your wife and kids think Jesus directs. 
Will that really help them become disciples of Christ? Or are they not praying that they may somehow be able to help you to become more fully a disciple of Christ?
I’m going to make a few assumptions. They’re probably wrong, but they make a good composite picture. Bear with me. You certainly do not hesitate to speak with authority so bear with me if I do as well.
You downgrade the importance of preaching and you upgrade the importance of fine works in other ways. You upgrade the importance of raising children apart from public preaching. You upgrade the importance of interpretation and have spun a theory about how the matters of Revelation will turn out. I think it is far-fetched for reasons already given—primarily by JWI—not me. But it certainly reflects contemplation on the scriptures. Indeed, all I did was ridicule it and I count it very much to your credit that you did not get indignant with me on that account. 
I think you’re a little embarrassed about the earthly organization and maybe about the brothers in any given Kingdom Hall. I think you are disappointed that so many of them are not more students of God’s Word than you think they ought be. You are turning verses over in your head, but many of them are not. “What has the organization said?” suffices for many of them.
Plainly you are tired of the preaching work and tired that for so many it is rather ineffective. ‘It may be cumulative but, for any given individual, can’t they find more effective ways to serve?‘ seems be your attitude. If you have five children, then you are surely frustrated that so much teaching is geared for those who don’t have any children at all—at most one or two. “Yeah—give each of these guys (GB members) one or two teenagers and then see how that would affect how they carry themselves!” a friend of mine who raised three teens (two took to the truth, one did not) muttered. 
I will speculate that you were an elder but as certain things did not go your way, you no longer are. Go back to the congregation. Regain the confidence for acting a spiritual head ought, per the definition of your wife and kids. Bring your gift to the altar. It is other than that which is stressed today, but that does not mean that it is not a gift. Don’t worry about being an elder again. Focus on the basics and the freedom that you have to unbuild. There are so many things that, as appointed men, they have to do, but you do not. Support them, but you can look around and visit, unbuild in a way that they can’t always get to as quickly and sometimes not at all.
Just between me and you, when I first saw the online study course, I said: “Good! Now we can hold off on spoon-feeding people the basics and engage with them at a higher level.” I even wrote that I looked forward to the time when I would say—it would have to be just the right circumstances—“I don’t want to study the Bible with you—do it yourself!” When we keep ourselves immersed in the milk because that is as far as we get in teaching most people, it makes us babes ourself—and you are anything but a ‘babe.’
I don’t think the ministry is as pointless as you say. Yes, much territory is well-worked and yes, people know who we are, but I don’t think they know it very well. At least two reasons you did not mention argue strongly for keeping the present course—new adults are formed daily, and new circumstances prompt people to reappraise. I think we are not particularly effective in how we present the good news. As I grow older, with bills paid, kids gone, more freedom to both copy and innovate, I come up with new methods of door to door that almost instantly break down barriers. Such as telling people how it works with Jehovah’s Witnesses—on the 100th call, I will ask them to join our religion, and what are the chances it will go so long? In the meantime, it is just conversation. I’ve seen people visibly relax at that—now that they know the score, they need not fear that every word they say somehow digs them deeper into a pit of expectation that they will not be able to extract themselves from without unpleasantness. (unfortunately, some of our people give exactly that impression) The point is I think we can be much more effective than we are. This one here about speaking to the evangelical works, too:
https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forums/topic/86486-speaking-with-the-evangelical/
No, the preaching work is going to define the organization and I think you must get your head around that. “This good news of the kingdom will be preached.....and then the end will come” will always be the theme. ‘Anyone hearing the voice of the Lord, let them also say ‘come’ It’s the way it is. You are not going to get away from it. You give your wife and kids the appearance that you are trying to, however. Better if you don’t do it, I think. Accept that the guys who get the “honor” will be the guys who push the preaching work, which you, by the simple reason of having five kids, will not be able to be in the forefront of. Accept that the guys running the show are “unlearned and ordinary.” They always have been. They always will be. Christianity is a working class religion. Use your considerable talents—evident by the way you conduct yourself—to build up the body of the Christ. If you are outside the congregation arrangement, then in the eyes of your wife and kids, the body doesn’t know where you are. You are like a severed member.

The scores of branch office buildings, hundreds of Assembly Halls, and tens of thousands of Kingdom Halls around the world provide tangible proof that God’s Kingdom is real and is now ruling."
The GB and JW congregants need to see physical things, because they have no real faith in God, Christ or holy spirit. They are physical 'men'.
1 Corinthians 2 v 14  (NWT.)
 " But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. "
How very true this is. So the GB & Co replace it with physical things. Large buildings, Offices, books, magazines, 'carts', and the buying and selling of real estate. 
Jesus didn't even have a 'place to lay his head'. Luke 9 v 58
But Jesus said to him: “Foxes have dens and birds of heaven have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay down his head.

The scores of branch office buildings, hundreds of Assembly Halls, and tens of thousands of Kingdom Halls around the world provide tangible proof that God’s Kingdom is real and is now ruling."
The GB and JW congregants need to see physical things, because they have no real faith in God, Christ or holy spirit. They are physical 'men'.
1 Corinthians 2 v 14  (NWT.)
 " But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. "
How very true this is. So the GB & Co replace it with physical things. Large buildings, Offices, books, magazines, 'carts', and the buying and selling of real estate. 
Jesus didn't even have a 'place to lay his head'. Luke 9 v 58
But Jesus said to him: “Foxes have dens and birds of heaven have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay down his head.

It's a way of controlling people. And the monthly reports are proof of the control that the GB etc, have over the congregants. Quite funny though that the message preached this year may be seen as 'old light' and a different message preached next year.  

@Srecko Sostar   The GB show up their own stupidity more and more each day.
They certainly show that they do NOT have the guidance of God's holy spirit. 
@Anna said "In other words; Satan, by his action, deprived all humans of God's protective power when it comes to the elements, and over other things too."  
Do you really know how stupid that sounds ?  Have you really though it through ? 
You are saying that Satan had / has control of God.  Truth is that God decides who He will protect and when.  
My oh my, JWs get worse. 
 

The scores of branch office buildings, hundreds of Assembly Halls, and tens of thousands of Kingdom Halls around the world provide tangible proof that God’s Kingdom is real and is now ruling."
The GB and JW congregants need to see physical things, because they have no real faith in God, Christ or holy spirit. They are physical 'men'.
1 Corinthians 2 v 14  (NWT.)
 " But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. "
How very true this is. So the GB & Co replace it with physical things. Large buildings, Offices, books, magazines, 'carts', and the buying and selling of real estate. 
Jesus didn't even have a 'place to lay his head'. Luke 9 v 58
But Jesus said to him: “Foxes have dens and birds of heaven have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay down his head.

C2 to develop or make progress in something: He has probably done more to further the cause of interracial harmony than any other person. Additional training is probably the best way to further your career these days.   It is questionable what is really happening in this segment of WT business. They reduced office stuff, closed many Branch offices, selling KH's around the worlds. It seems how such reports not coming promptly or not coming at all, and are not part of "proofs how Kingdom is ruling" in decreasing period of time.    When WT Society building program is in pick number and when they sales this same KH's in enormous number globally - are both of this corporative, administrative politics speaking of same sort of progress? 

@Srecko Sostar   The GB show up their own stupidity more and more each day.
They certainly show that they do NOT have the guidance of God's holy spirit. 
@Anna said "In other words; Satan, by his action, deprived all humans of God's protective power when it comes to the elements, and over other things too."  
Do you really know how stupid that sounds ?  Have you really though it through ? 
You are saying that Satan had / has control of God.  Truth is that God decides who He will protect and when.  
My oh my, JWs get worse. 
 

What does that strange term, “further Kingdom interest” mean?  Does it mean helping others to have “interest” in the Kingdom of God?  Or, does it mean assisting men who have an obsessive interest in building their own “kingdom” in Satan’s world?  Luke 4:5-7
 
 

This requires putting one’s faith/treasure in men, riches, and what they can accomplish with it, and not putting faith in the power of Holy Spirit.
"Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Make money-bags for yourselves that won’t grow old, an inexhaustible treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Luke 12:33,34
8 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen”  Matt 28:18-20
It doesn't take "tangible proof" to know God's will is accomplished. Isn't the Father and Jesus Christ powerful enough to make sure it's done without the use of the world's riches? 
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”  John 20:29
The meaning of Christ's words have not changed. He spoke against materialism.  Your leaders highlight materialism.  Men can interpret Jesus' words, who have no Holy Spirit within their heart, to be influential in deceiving others that they are following God's way.  I remember when becoming a JW, that Catholics were slammed for their churches and great accomplishments in building feats throughout the world.  I tried hard to convince others that the WT was God's organization, and not part of the world.  I desired to believe it was somehow "different".  As is more evident, all the WT strives to do, is appear to be a rival in the world's accomplishments, as it made note of, when revealing its plan to build a mega media center.  Now, there are two planned, which only will lead to more.  It is no different than the Catholic Church.  
 
 
 
 

Yes. "And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come". You are forgetting that ALL this is only there to further Kingdom interest. Which in simple terms means preaching the good news of the Kingdom.
This also explains why we can say:
 
 

"The scores of branch office buildings, hundreds of Assembly Halls, and tens of thousands of Kingdom Halls around the world provide tangible proof that God’s Kingdom is real and is now ruling." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-kingdom/support/building-work-honors-jehovah/
This same words was told by GB Helper Alex Reinmueller on JW TV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzgfCMcOhM4&feature=em-uploademail  in 32:31 of this video.
Where in Bible and in Jesus' words you can find confirmation how construction program and buildings will be tangible proof about God's Kingdom reality on Earth?
Does Watchtower's worldwide possession of  properties, real estate (buildings) is part of "sign" of the Last Days ?
 
 

In other words; Satan, by his action, deprived all humans of God's protective power when it comes to the elements, and over other things too. When Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden of Eden, God said to them: " Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. It will grow thorns and thistles for you, ...."  To me this indicates that if they had not sinned, the ground would not have been "cursed" so to speak, and there would be no "thistles and thorns" and no natural disasters. In this way, Jehovah removed his protective power from the earth, and this affects both good and bad people of course. He does not cause natural disasters, he just doesn't stop them. It is assumed that in the new world, God will control the weather (miraculously) for man's benefit, just like Jesus did when he calmed the storm.
 

Is it really necessary to preach as much as the WT organization urges?
Haven't we all felt that it is quite unproductive to go back to territories that we have worked through many times already? In a such case, could we not just focus on doing fine works and working on to put on the new personality? And make progress in becoming one with God and Christ and our brothers and sisters?
John 17:22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me. 
What does the Holy Christian Greek scriptures really say?
First of all we should be reasonable. That is a quality that is strongly endorsed in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Philippians 4:5: Let your reasonableness become known to all men.
According to this quality of reasonableness it is said that wives with unbelieving husbands should not constantly preach to their husbands. 1 Peter 3:1: "In the same way, you wives, be in subjection to your husbands, so that if any are not obedient to the word, they may be won without a word through the conduct of their wives."
And what did apostle Paul say about going back to old territories? Romans 15:20: "In this way, indeed, I made it my aim not to declare the good news where the name of Christ had already been made known, so as not to build on another man’s foundation;  21 but just as it is written: “Those who received no report about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.”
So we see that apostle Paul was not interested in preaching there where somebody already had preached. We should see that preaching is not a limitless activity. To the contrary when a territory has been worked through, then it is finished. 
Also Jesus told to enter a city and find the deserving ones. And that was it. He did not tell to come back to people that refused to receive the good news. Instead he instructed to show them that we are finished with them by saying: "Further, he said to them: “Wherever you enter into a home, stay there until you leave that place.  11 And wherever a place will not receive you or listen to you, on going out from there, shake off the dirt that is on your feet for a witness to them." -Mark 6:10
So in this way in the first century the territories were quickly covered and finished. 
Have you ever wondered why there is so little push for preaching activity in the letters to the congregations in the Christian Greek scriptures? That must be the reason. They had already covered their territories and the apostles did not see any need to push first century christians to go back to uninterested persons. Actually that would be against Jesus' instructions and that would be unreasonable.
Instead the letters to the congregations are filled with instructions on how to become a good and acceptable person for God. That is the thing the letters to the congregations are focused on.
Then there are also scriptures telling that the first century christians should always be bold to confess their faith in Jesus. But confessing faith in Jesus is understandably not the same as preaching. 
We understand that confessing faith means only that when we are asked if we believe in Jesus, we confess and say "Yes, I believe in Jesus". 
Philippians 2:11 "and every tongue should openly acknowledge [confess, Kingdom Interlinear] that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
Romans 10:9 "For if you publicly declare [confess, Kingdom Interlinear] with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved."
1 John 4:15 "Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is God’s Son, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God"
Luke 12:8 “I say to you, everyone who acknowledges [confess, Kingdom Interlinear] me before men, the Son of man will also acknowledge[confess, Kingdom Interlinear] him before the angels of God."
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.
Hebrews 10:23 "Let us hold firmly the public declaration [confession, Kingdom Interlinear] of our hope without wavering, for the one who promised is faithful.24 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works,
Hebrews 13:15 Through him let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of our lips that make public declaration [confessing, Kingdom Interlinear] to his name.
16 Moreover, do not forget to do good and to share what you have with others, for God is well-pleased with such sacrifices.
Revelation 2:13 ‘I know where you are dwelling, that is, where the throne of Satan is; and yet you keep holding fast to my name, and you did not deny your faith in me even in the days of Anʹti·pas, my faithful witness, who was killed by your side, where Satan is dwelling.
Is it not evident, that where the territory once has been covered, there is no requirement to go back. But every time we are asked about our faith we confess that we believe in Jesus as our Lord and also that we believe that Jehovah is the True God.
What can we focus on instead? Hebrews 13:16 says: "Moreover, do not forget to do good and to share what you have with others, for God is well-pleased with such sacrifices."
Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works,
Matthew 5:16 Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens.
Ephesians 2:10 We are God’s handiwork and were created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God determined in advance for us to walk in them.
Titus 3:8 that those who have believed God may keep their minds focused on maintaining fine works…...14 But let our people also learn to maintain fine works so as to help in cases of urgent need, so that they may not be unproductive.
1 Timothy 5:4 But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let these learn first to practice godly devotion in their own household and to repay their parents and grandparents what is due them, for this is acceptable in God’s sight. 5 Now the woman who is truly a widow and left destitute has put her hope in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day.
9  A widow is to be put on the list if she is not less than 60 years old, was the wife of one husband, 10  having a reputation for fine works, if she raised children, if she practiced hospitality, if she washed the feet of holy ones, if she assisted the afflicted, if she devoted herself to every good work.
2 Thessalonians 1: 11 To that very end we always pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling and with his power perform completely all the good that he pleases and every work of faith. 12  This is so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you and you in union with him, according to the undeserved kindness of our God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 3:12 To such people we give the order and exhortation in the Lord Jesus Christ that they should work quietly and eat food they themselves earn.13  For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing good.
1 Thessalonians 4: 11 Make it your aim to live quietly and to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we instructed you, 12  so that you may walk decently in the eyes of people outside and not need anything.
Colossians 1:10 so as to walk worthily of Jehovah* in order to please him fully as you go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God;+
Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste,* whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering* these things.+ 9  The things that you learned as well as accepted and heard and saw in connection with me, practice these,+ and the God of peace will be with you. 
John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. 
Yes, we can have lot of things to do in the Lord's work, without preaching on our territories after we have gone through them and found the worthy ones.
And have you thought about that nobody preached in Jerusalem the final 3 and half years before its destruction, because all christians had fled. 




 

Thank you, i didn't know that. When i watch films on Netflix I always need the subtitles. Even with hearing aids I cannot hear properly. I just get louder sounds that i cannot understand  .. 

Hi! You can turn on Subtitles and they are on English.

Well that was fun, thank you @Srecko Sostar . 

Let's put this in the proper perspective, shall we?
No, actually ... the "Pale Horse" is just contemplating its navel, and laughing at our panicking over the Coronavirus.
From the World Health Organization:
" Of all disease-transmitting insects, the mosquito is the greatest menace, spreading malaria, dengue and yellow fever, which together are responsible for several million deaths and hundreds of millions of cases every year. Mosquitos also transmit lymphatic filariasis and Japanese encephalitis. Other insect species carry a variety of diseases. Sleeping sickness is spread by the tsetse fly, with 55 million people at risk. The leishmaniasis group of diseases is spread by sandflies, with 350 million people at risk. Another 100 million in Latin America are at risk of Chagas disease, spread by household bugs. Onchocerciasis, or river blindness, is carried by blackflies, and plague by fleas.
Malaria is endemic in 91 countries, with about 40% of the world's population at risk. By undermining the health and working capacity of hundreds of millions, it is closely linked to poverty and stunts social and economic development. Up to 500 million cases occur every year, 90% of them in Africa, and there are up to 2.7 million deaths annually.
Dengue is the world's most important mosquito-borne virus disease, with 2500 million people worldwide at risk of infection and 20 million cases a year in more than 100 countries. In 1995, the worst dengue epidemic in Latin America and the Caribbean for 15 years struck at least 14 countries, causing more than 200 000 cases of dengue fever and almost 6000 cases of the more serious dengue haemorrhagic fever.
Many major cities of the world, especially in the Americas, are at risk of potentially devastating epidemics of yellow fever because they are infested with Aedes aegypti mosquitos which can transmit the disease. Lymphatic filariasis (elephantiasis) infects about 120 million people in tropical areas of Africa, India, South-East Asia, the Pacific Islands and South and Central America.
Among diseases spread by other insects, leishmaniasis occurs in 88 countries, and its spread is accelerated by road building, dam construction, mining and other development programmes that bring more people into contact with the sandflies that transmit the causative parasite. Sleeping sickness affects 36 countries of sub-Saharan Africa. Onchocerciasis affects some 17.6 million people in Africa, and a smaller number in Central and South America. At least 16 million people in Latin America are infected with Chagas disease. Plague continues to strike relatively small numbers of people in Africa, the Americas and Asia."
The "Pale Horse" trots at a pretty devastating steady pace already, hardly breaking a sweat.
...this MAY change dramatically .... or not.
 

Yeah i watched this video earlier on, maybe if i watch it 1000 times i will start believing in it.