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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Indeed. I agree with his opinion in that the law needs to be changed.
    Page 15 of the Supreme Court's decision says this: "This Court’s task is to interpret what is contained in the reporting statute as written by the Legislature. We do not opine whether that body could have made a different policy choice that would afford greater protection to child victims. The Legislature is the appropriate body to entertain such policy arguments.
     
    Its simple. From a worldly point of view the elders are clergy. From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders. However, outside of a worldly situation (meaning a worldly situation like a court setting) a member of the Christian congregation will not view the elders as clergy, because they are not applying the worldly point of view.  No deceit or lying there.
  2. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    How came to that, that they just found themselves to be in this opportunity?
    This formulation say how they had no "qualifications", but JUST had been GIVING opportunity to direct.
    Who gave them (GB) this opportunity from 1971 on ? WT Society Administration? Or God? Or mutual effort of human and spirit (similar to what was described in Acts, ..."we and holy spirit decided to ....") ?    
  3. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    We cannot fix the world (as you say)  but we can volunteer to help and support our brothers under duress.  This is what Jehovahs org does. Rarely do other organizations manage to help under such severe circumstances .
    I recall in Mozambique disaster flooding about 20 years ago, the world watched and sent no help.  A week later when south Africans arrived they found JW volunteer doctors already there and services running in full force - also volunteers. JWs in south Africa had sent blankets and food, water, etc. Jws had problems getting landing rights for their planes but they were there before anyone else. They used chartered planes.  (Since then there has been a second flood.)
    Opposers are quick to critisize JWs  as TH's example clearly illustrated.  They complained that we did not help all.... but our work is done by unpaid volunteers.
    I can mention that Hillary Clinton's foundation received tons of money too!.... and they went there in person and threw their weight around (did not listen to local leaders) and squandered the money on things which they themselves decided were important and in the end it helped no-one. There is also nothing in Haiti to show on what they had accomplished.... but anything written negatively  in the press about where their donated  money went to?  Hillary got sterling coverage out of it... until later when no-one was interested about what really happened! 
    Yes- we are not allowed to mention anything like this in  in our defence. Or compare our reasonably successful attempts to that of the other sectors in the world, where we are doing a reasonably good job under difficult circumstances. 
    One can compare your reasoning to a court where only accusers are allowed to come forward but no defence lawyers allowed.  It is your "rule" that we may not bring up mitigating circumstances or compare our success to failed efforts in the world. 
    Who are you to make the rules for what is allowed as a defence argument?  You obviously have made this rule for yourself - not to accept any mitigating circumstances or comparisons. Because we claim to do Jehovahs work, your private rules stipulate that we have to be perfect.  Anything less than perfect is not accepted by you. Your extremely high standard of righteousness must apply in all circumstances - I bet you live up to all of your own rules in private life.  Lol.
    Now that to me is  hypocricy when you do not accept we are normal people who can err and make mistakes and only expect standards from us which are above what is normal.  When we show that we do well compared to others - then you come up with the rule that we cannot compare ourselves to the wicked world! Lol...  the truth is, we do manage do get some things right compared to other religious institutions and the "world".
  4. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in NEW DOCUMENTARY EXAMINES ALLEGED CHILD SEX ABUSE WITHIN JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES   
    Article in People Magazine:
    https://people.com/crime/jehovas-witnesses-alleged-sex-abuse-oxygen-documentary/?fbclid=IwAR3DWbOD6ihak4wOe7rtv0GIkNfppgH0MlGs56RtjpSE_kdXHcqB4xS6J-o
     
  5. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Very good response from long term JW member. And very dissonante response!! 
    From now on, because JW members obey secular laws (and because of agreements that WT Society and Courts made) in everything that not oppose to God's law, have to consider how to accept new terminology and to explain in publications and in field service when people ask about hierarchy inside Organization. 
    It will be very interesting to see what would be reaction of new interested persons when congregants tell them, how JW Church elders are clergy only in Court cases against them, but in everyday life all are brothers. :))
    WT Society giving few claims, few interpretations  about one standard: God is above all
    1) obey God's commandments
    2) obey secular law
    3) obey God's commandments above secular law
    4) obey secular law in everything that not contradict and opposing to God's commandments
    5) obey Secular authority and God's authority when they work together and making compromise
    I am very interested to see how and when  this "new clarification" (in your's or some other formulation) will see daylight in WT publications and on JW meetings. :))
     
     
  6. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to the Sower of Seed in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    If people in the 1st century were homosexuals before learning the truth of God's Kingdom and Christ' sin atoning blood became anointed, what is the difference today.
    The GB members are no different than any other witnesses, they just have been giving opportunity to direct the organization.They have not been blessed with an Apostleship and Outward Displays of Holy Spirit as some of them were.
    Like us, and those in the 1st century, they repented and left ungodly practices behind and are reaching forward.They may have preached the message full time and been given responsibility one step at a time after many years. WHO IS THEIR JUDGE?
  7. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    By secular laws - by worldly laws - they can be classified as clergy.   By Jehovahs laws-  definitely not. 
    Please start to understand that we live in the world - we cannot go out of the world.... so worldly laws apply to us when we go to court.   In court they will apply the law in this traditional way. 
  8. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Supreme Court of Montana - Reversal, January 8 2020
    I chose few paragraphs, and some accentuation.
    The parties agree that elders are “clergy” under Montana law.
    Relevant here, § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA, provides: “A member of the clergy or a priest is not required to make a report under this section if the communication is required to be confidential by canon law, church doctrine, or established church practice.” ¶12 Jehovah’s Witnesses contend they are excepted from the general mandatory reporting statute pursuant to § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA.
    ¶30 Jehovah’s Witnesses point out that imposing a narrow definition of confidentiality impermissibly could discriminate between different religious beliefs and practices, protecting confidentiality of reports made in a confession from a parishioner to priest, like the traditional Catholic practice, while offering no protection to a congregant’s disclosures to a committee of elders using a process like that followed by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. “It is the duty of courts, if possible, to construe statutes in a manner that avoids unconstitutional interpretation.” State v. Mathis, 2003 MT 112, ¶ 8, 315 Mont. 378, 68 P.3d 756 (citation omitted)
    ¶33 We hold accordingly that the undisputed material facts in the summary judgment record demonstrate as a matter of law that Jehovah’s Witnesses were not mandatory reporters under § 41-3-201, MCA, in this case because their church doctrine, canon, or practice required that clergy keep reports of child abuse confidential, thus entitling the Defendants to the exception of § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA
    We can reverse now something else: Did WT Society and all included in spreading "spiritual truths and doctrines" lied to general public and JW members by claiming how JW congregations have not clergy, priesthood class and how elders in congregations are not clergy, priesthood?
  9. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    I have called them “malcontents” because I don’t want to get @admin going again. Remember how he yelled at us all, saying that the rest of the world has moved on and nobody cares if people in the JW world are crying ‘apostate’ at each other and they think we’re all nuts? Who wants to risk that tirade again?
    He has a point. It does have to ring a little crazy to anyone else. Will he accept my explanation that the early Christians had apostates as virulent—so virulent that two entire chapters of the Bible are devoted to them (2 Peter 2, Jude 1) and there is no NT writer that does not come to grips with them? I wouldn’t hold my breath.
    From the meta-data of ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’—
    No New Testament writer fails to deal with then-rampant apostasy—a movement which finds its counterpart today. Two Bible chapters are entirely dedicated to it. Apostates of that time would “despise authority.” How could that become a problem unless there was authority? They loved “lawlessness.” How could that become a problem unless there was law? They favored acts of “brazen conduct,” had “eyes full of adultery,” and were “unable to desist from sin.” How could that become a problem unless there was someone to tell them that they could not carry on in that way? Not only is the nature of apostates revealed in the above Bible verses, but also the nature of the Christian organization. 
    Any faith too bland to have quality apostates—I am almost proud of ours—is too bland to be given the time of day. They validate us. The more “respectable” churches where anything goes—what would people apostatize from?
    But the general audience may weary of the term “apostate.” So I say “malcontent,” “detractor,” “grumbler.” It’s just to throw Admin off the track. Because you know and I know the song these “malcontents” sing at their secret gatherings—the Queen song: 
    “We’re the apostates, my friends
    And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end
    We’re the apostates
    We’re the apostates
    No way we’re losers
    'Cause we’re the apostates of the world.”
  10. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    How you try to deceive.  You know why people don't help each other. You know why the world is as it is. You know who the governments belong to, (and even the 'charities' belong to)... Satan offered them to Jesus and Jesus did not say that they didn't belong to Satan. 
    Once again you are comparing the GB and JWs to 'the world', that 'wicked world of mankind'. Because you dare not compare the GB and JWs to God's standards, as your GB and most JWs fall far short. 
    You really must lack faith if you need to compare your GB and the Org to the devil's wicked world. 
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    Thank you Srecko.  It needed to be said.
    “But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back."  Luke 6:32-34
    It leaves no doubt in my mind that those "brothers" fully gave back through all aspects of their life, to the organization. Matt 6:24
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    I believe how money can't REPAIR the Trauma.
    Money can do other things, other sorts of help for victim.  
  13. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    Is it? I suppose it is. But I am human, too. With you and others so eager to tear down what is practically the sole beacon of hope on that island, I was not able to resist. Forgive me.
  14. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    I am glad that someone helping people in need. But, because of your unappropriate way of how involving our names here, i will give you back (you ask for this) in this way: That doesn’t surprise us, for even Satan transforms himself to appear as an angel of light! - 2.Cor.11
     
  15. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Well at least the plaintiff could be miserable in luxury  ..  But I agree with you that millions of $$$ in payouts are too high. So who is it that decides on the amount ? Because as you seem to be saying, it disputes the genuineness of the claim.  But is there ever an apology on behalf of the Watchtower / JW Org ? 
    One other point of course is, would a qualified lawyer be prepared to fight a case for a Victim if there was no financial reward for the lawyer. Lawyers are part of the devil's world, and money seems to be what drives them. You cannot expect an experienced lawyer to work for no pay. And it needs very experienced lawyers to fight the GB and their lawyers, because the GB's lawyers play dirty.  
    Also, you cannot expect the devil's world to work toward preventing child sexual abuse can you ?  Its kinda funny how @Arauna follows 'world conditions' and uses them as signs of the times, whereas you seem to be expecting signs of improvement to worldly moral standards. But you know things will get worse not better. This is why JW Org should be compared to God's high standards, not compared to the devil's world. It would be too easy to say JW Org is better than the devil's world, but it would prove nothing. 
    ========================================================
    New comment. 
    @the Sower of Seed  Said :  A person may imagine sexual scenarios, is this the Christian thing to do?
    @Arauna   said : He was giving an example.... so what are u getting åt? 
    Members of the Governing Body, it seems, were Homosexual.  It also seems, if information is correct, that a member of Bethel was sexually assaulted by such a one.  There have been other reports on here, of immoral behavior at Bethel.
    Those GB members would have contributed to Watchtower articles. Also it gives reason to believe that the Writing department personnel might not be exactly worthy of producing information on God;s behalf.  With 'pillowgate' and other examples it does not look good for the GB / Org / Bethel in USA. 
    Unfortunately i don't keep all the info i read on this forum, and those that have given info' might not wish to confirm the info they originally gave, so I only have the remnants of the knowledge in my head.  But the information I have read on here was obviously given voluntarily by those that had worked / possibly do work at Bethel, so there is no reason for me to disbelieve it.  
  16. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    These are two thoughts, not well connected.   
    Anointed ones were initially drawn together BEFORE the organization was established.  It was under this premise, that they gathered:
    "Beware of "organization." It is wholly un-necessary. The Bible will be the only rules you need. Do not seek to bind other consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's word today, and so continue to growing in grace and knowledge day by day." (Zion's Watch Tower, 1895, p. 216.) 
    "In view of these facts and also of the nature of the harvest work, and the addition. In fact that each one so gathered is expected to enter into the harvest work as a reaper, and will do so to the extent of his ability and opportunity, it is plain that the forming of a visible organization of such gathered out ones would be out of harmony with the spirit of the divine plan; and, it done, would seem to indicate on the part of the Church a desire to conform to the now popular idea of organization or confederacy. (See Isa. 8:12.) ... While, therefore, we do not esteem a visible organization of the gathered ones to be a part of the Lord's plan in the harvest work, as though we expected as an organization to abide here for another age, we do esteem it to be his will that those that love the Lord should speak often one to another of their common hopes and joys, or trials and perplexities, communing together concerning the precious things of his Word, and so help one another, and not forget the assembling of themselves together as the manner of some is; and so much the more as they see the day approaching. -- Mal. 3: 16; Heb. 10:25." (Zion's Watch Tower, 1894, p. 384.)
    "There is no organization today clothed with such divine authority to imperiously command mankind. There is no organization doing this today; though we are well aware that many of them in theory claim that they ought to be permitted to do so; and many more would like to do so. This was the fatal mistake into which the Church began to fall in the second century; and the effort to realize this false conception culminated in the boastful, imperious counterfeiting of the coming Kingdom in Papacy, which for centuries sought to dominate the world, by claimed "divine authority". This idea more or less pervaded and poisoned the ideas of all the Protestant "clergy" as well; who copying Papacy's false ideas of the Church, claim also that the Church of Christ is now organized, though they now make less boastful claims to "divine authority" to teach and rule mankind in general, that the Papacy does." (Zion's Watch Tower, 1893, page 266.)
    From, http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/russells-opinion-on-organizations.html 
    All of this truth, has dissolved over time; and the organization today at its peak of corruption, shows evidence of its peak as a lie, against God’s anointed, spiritual “organization” under Christ.  Rev 13: 1,2,5-9; 16:13-15
    As time has gone by, this priesthood of God has been consumed by a tally of millions who have joined what is now, a necessary “evil”.  There is nothing wrong with people gathered with anointed ones. It is happening on the other side of the WT fence, never to be organized by man’s will.  What is wrong with WT, is the GB’s dismissal of God’s priests gradually, over the spanning years of the organization's development.
    Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.   Wt 02/8/1
     This necessary evil requires a priesthood of its own, where its priests answer to their “High Priest”, the GB.  False christs.  Matt 24:24 Thus, they have "ordained" a priesthood for their own.   True anointed have written on their hearts, the laws of God through the outpouring of Holy Spirit. Heb 8:10 God wouldn’t do this if He didn’t expect His servants to teach the people, as priests have always been admonished to do.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9 
     Except for a minority of elders who truly try to “love your neighbor as yourself”, the majority of elders are “heartless” to this guidance Jesus has taught us. Isa 3:12; Ezek 34; Rev 9:9,10; Joel 2:2-9  Those elders who make the effort to obey Christ’s law of love, in most cases leave, or just give up and answer to "lawlessness".
    So, the elder body can play the role of a clergy class at its whim in the court systems, when it is advantageous for the organization. Other times, it uses the excuse that all men are imperfect and make mistakes.  As I have said, if the organization belonged to God, only His authentic priests would lead as shepherds.  What would guide them in all cases, would be the "written letter" fulfilled in Christ, and inscribed on their hearts.  2 Cor 3:3
    All the excuses made in defense of the organization’s need to fight for its rights in court, mean nothing to God or Christ. It is no different than what other organizations in the world of Satan face.  If Christ said, "my kingdom is not part of this world", (John 18:36)  a JW should ask, why do men make it so?   God's priesthood/Temple has been rejected and trampled, for the sustaining benefit of an idol  (1 Cor 3:16,17)  Matt 24:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; Ezek 44:6-9
    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’ 23 And then I will say to them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’  Matt 7:21-23
    What has developed over time since its inception, is a devouring monster.  Rev 13:1,2,10,11,12,15
  17. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Yes, agree. Also, one has to avoid situations that could re-ignite this addiction. With drugs, one has to completely cut ties with the drug based community. With alcohol, one must completely avoid it, even just one drink. However, with the "addiction" of molesting children, in other words pedophilia, there is a problem. One cannot avoid being around children entirely. So what has happened is pedophiles have been in a position where re-offending was made possible. And that has been the problem all along.
  18. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Not all lawyers.
    I know some who do it all the time.
    They only “play dirty” in your eyes because they beat your side.
    Exactly. Look, if someone offered me $20 million (or bought enough of my books to total that amount—hint, hint) I would take it in a heartbeat if there were no strings attached. But the “strings attached” in this instance is kicking the organization in the teeth which is likely more proactive than anyone in actually preventing child sexual abuse.
  19. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    Ten years to the day after Haiti suffered a magnitude 7 earthquake that killed 250,000, CBS News sent Jeff Glor to Port au Prince to report on progress. There wasn’t any—or at least, it didn’t seem that way.
    “Mass protests, gang violence, rampant political corruption...jobs are scarce,” was his glum assessment. 80 million dollars had immediately after the quake been allocated to rebuild the hospital, and CBS showed the unfinished building standing empty. As to the devastation of the old hospital—the only hospital in town? It “reeks of raw sewage, piles of trash are everywhere.” 
    “Sorry, Buddy, I’m sorry,” a shaken Jeff Glor murmurs, stroking the head of a writhing infant unable to relieve himself. “I can’t imagine the pain he’s in right now,” he says to his parent.
    Read the report of how the beacon of relief looked to by humanists ten years ago raised half a billion dollars in the wake of the earthquake—and squandered almost all of it: here
    Yes, but surely ten years later, mighty progress has been made. Nope. Doesn’t seem so. In contrast, disaster relief teams organized by the Coordinator’s Committee of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’s Governing Body, quickly attended to physical needs of members back then. Not only physical needs, but the more important spiritual needs, for it is widely recognized that hope is what people need at such time at least as much as physical relief. 
    An excerpt from Tom Irregardless and Me: 
    In contrast, the Red Cross, America’s ‘charity of choice,’ succeeded in raising half a billion dollars after a 7.0 magnitude earthquake struck Haiti in January 2010. Five years later, ProPublica and NPR jointly reported that they had astonishingly little to show for it; “It’s difficult to know where it all went,” they wrote. Search through their June 3, 2015 report and read the devastating consequences of not having Bible education.
    Read how the ones in charge couldn’t speak the native languages and often skipped community meetings on that account. Read how some disrespected the local workers. Read how Washington headquarters micromanaged everything, how shifting senior management slowed progress to a crawl, how leaders with “absolutely no expertise” wielded authority. Read about hand-washing campaigns launched with huge fanfare to people who had no access to soap or water. Read about the 130,000 claimed to have been housed, but who actually just attended a seminar on how to fix their own homes, received temporary rental assistance or provisional shelters that started to disintegrate after three to five years. And be fair to the Red Cross: Read their response. Read it all. Were it not so tragic, it would be laughable. It was all so preventable. All that was needed was Bible education. Jehovah’s Witnesses have it. They value it. They didn’t suffer from the Red Cross’s problems.
    You should be fair to the Red Cross - don’t pile on just because the herd does. Haiti is a spectacular train wreck for them, but probably they do better elsewhere. Doubtless they have fine people doing their best. No one alleges theft. They offer an explanation for their performance. Read it. Essentially, they had problems because they didn’t know what they were doing: they didn’t mesh with the locals, they didn’t understand the local laws. Cut them slack on these things, if you like, but also note that such problems would never occur in Jehovah’s organization, where local people are highly valued, if not placed in charge.
    Author Bill Underwood in the now defunct examinier.com compared the disaster relief efforts of several religious organizations. Most issued urgent appeals for money. Most provided only sketchy details as to what they would do with those monies. But when it came to the Watchtower:
    Well, that was refreshing. I went to watchtower.org and searched it for references to money, donations, charity. All I found were Watchtower articles such as ‘Is money you master or your servant?’ Try as I might, there was no way to donate any money to the organization, nor any request for donations. The only mention of money I found, in connection with Haiti, was in a public news release at jw-media.org entitled “Witnesses’ relief efforts well under way for victims of earthquake in Haiti.” A single line at the bottom read, ‘The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is caring for these expenses by utilizing funds donated to the Witnesses’ worldwide work.’
    ....At the home of Victor Vomidog, an alarm panel light pulsed red. Victor read the incoming feed. It was serious. Someone was saying nice things about Jehovah’s Witnesses. Instantly, he swung into action. There was not a moment to lose. He opened his door and whistled. The media came running. “Witnesses are selfish!” he cried. “They only think of themselves! Why don’t they help everyone? Why do they just do their own people?” That evening, media ran the headline: “WHY DON’T THEY HELP EVERYONE?”
    But they had asked the wrong question. The headline they should have run, but didn’t, because they didn’t want to deal with the answer, was: “WHY AREN’T OTHERS DOING THE SAME?” The answer to the first question is obvious: Witness efforts consist of volunteers using their vacation time. Just how much time is the boss going to grant?
    So do it yourself, Victor! Organize your own new chums! Or send your money to some mega-agency where they think Bible education is for fools. Be content to see monies frittered away on salaries, hotels, travel, retirement, health care benefits, and God knows what else! Be content to see much of what remains squandered! It’s the best you can do - embrace it! Or at least shut up about the one organization that has its act together.
    The obvious solution, when it comes to disaster relief, is for others to do as we do. Why have they not? There are hundreds of religions. There are atheists…aren’t you tight with Sam now, Victor? Organize them, why don’t you? They all claim to be unGod’s gift to humankind. Surely they can see human suffering. Why don’t they step up to the plate themselves?
    They can’t. They are vested in a selfish model that runs a selfish world. Let them become Jehovah’s Witnesses and benefit from the Bible education overseen by the Governing Body, Plato’s and Sider’s dream brought to life. But if they stay where they are, they must look to their own organization or lack thereof. There’s no excuse that they should not be able to copy us. They have far more resources to draw upon. We’re not big enough to do everyone for free, and we don’t know how to run a for-pay model; we’ve no experience in that. Instead, other groups must learn how to put love into action, as we did long ago.
    C’mon, Victor! If all the world needs is to ‘come together,’ then see to it! We don’t know how to do that. People without Bible education tend not to get along. You make them do it! You don’t want to, or can’t, do large-scale relief, yet you want to shoot down those who do! What a liar!
    ...
    CBS News and Jeff Glor is determined to find a silver lining in this total failure uncovered during his 2020 visit. He does find one—but it is not in Port au Prince, which is still apparently a lost cause, despite humanists throwing everything they have at it.
    “But take  a trip outside the capitol and you find a remarkable place that many people doubted could ever exist in this country.” Jeff reports of St Boniface hospital, a remarkable (for Haiti) institution run by Health Equity International, caring for needs that cannot be cared for anywhere else in the country, it’s director says. People travel hundreds of miles to get there. It was started in 1983, and thus has nothing to do with human efforts in response to the 2010 devastation, but it clearing has found a place since then.
    No bad things will be said about Health Equity International. Only good things. It represents dedication at its best. Still, in the context of the greater picture....well—you must “take a trip outside the capitol” to find it—something, unless I am very wrong, that the majority of residents will not be able to do. Inside the capitol—where everyone is—there appears scant improvement in 2010, in fact, worse than scant improvement, for there were not “mass protests,” prior to the quake, and probably “gang violence” was not as bad. “Rampant political corruption” probably was, but that is business as usual in large portions of the world. 
    Fix it, you humanists. Fix it, you anti-cultists. Fix it, you “evidence-based” atheists. Fix it, @Srecko Sostar. Fix it, @Witness. Fix it, @4Jah2me—your solution is at least ten years away and people need relief now! Fix it—all or any of you. Or at least lay off on deriding JWs, since your people certainly aren’t rising to the occasion.
  20. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    @the Sower of Seed I just want to say that is not my quote above, even though it says Anna. It's what 4jah2me said. 
  21. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to the Sower of Seed in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    When a person is a alcoholic or drug addict, what is the common goal of rehab?
    To help the person gain a relationship with God! With Hope that a higher responsibility toward God will help the person refrain from wrong doing.
    2 Corinthians 10:5 For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ; 
    A person may imagine sexual scenarios, is this the Christian thing to do? NO. A person seeking to be pleasing before God must try to control thought and actions. Why? See Galatians 5:19-21. 
    Jehovah's Witnesses teach what fornication is and how such imagination is the first step of sin. What is sexual sin in God's eyes. To arouse sexual desire in someone who is not your wife or husband. This can be done many different ways.The Watchtower magazine often teaches it's readers to abstain from thoughts or actions that will cause emotional and spiritual pain. The congregation will always try to help individuals to "have the mind of Christ"
    The Bible teaches of one of David's sons who imagined his half sister would react differently. In his mind he had left any desire to please God, and was full throttle toward satisfying the sexual passion that  imagination had built within him. 
    2 Samuel 13 Now David’s son Absalom had a beautiful sister named Taʹmar, and David’s son Amʹnon fell in love with her. 
    Amnon played sick and arranged for her to come cook him a meal. 
    9 Then she took the pan and served him. But Amʹnon refused to eat and said: “Have everybody leave me!” So everybody left him.10 Amʹnon now said to Taʹmar: “Bring the food into the bedroom, so that I may eat it from your hand.” So Taʹmar took the heart-shaped cakes that she had made and brought them to her brother Amʹnon in the bedroom.11 When she brought them for him to eat, he grabbed her and said: “Come, lie down with me, my sister.”12 But she said to him: “No, my brother! Do not humiliate me, for such a thing is not done in Israel. Do not do this disgraceful thing.13 How could I live down my shame? And you will be regarded as one of the disgraceful men in Israel. Now speak, please, to the king, for he will not withhold me from you.”14 But he refused to listen to her, and he overpowered her and humiliated her by raping her.
    With What Result?
    15 Then Amʹnon began hating her with a very intense hatred, so that his hatred for her became greater than the love he had felt for her. Amʹnon said to her: “Get up; go away!” 
    After his sexual passion was satisfied his chemicals returned him to reality and He Now hated her for not matching his imagination. In moments his thinking was changed, however, I'm sure desire soon returned. 
    Sexual transgressions are nothing new in the world, however the wickedness is reaching higher levels than ever before. 2 Timothy 3:13 states that in our time "But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled."
    The cause: Every type of sexual desire can be fed on TV, Videos,The Web, magazines and any kind of product commercials.There is no conduct kept in the closet as unspeakable or shameful conduct. 
    Though there may be individuals that have left any sense of responsibility to Jehovah behind, there is no reason to color the entire organization of people with the same brush.Jehovah's Witnesses are the only organization on Earth performing the expressed will of God as we read at Matthew 24:14 and Mark 13:10. They try to live their lives with a consciousness toward the Holy God they represent and teach others about. 
    Most of Jehovah's Witnesses hate seeing the name of their God mentioned in a way that brings reproach and shame upon it. They hate that someone in their midst would act as a pedophile or betray the relationship between elder and those seeking spiritual help. When such a person is found in the congregation they are subjected to scrutiny by the elder body. It may be very difficult to tell whether a person is truly repentant. The world knows that if a person is found to be a non-repentant person, as someone who may cause harm to the congregation,or that they will continue to practice something that God hates, they are expelled from the congregation, this is what God Himself had instructed towards Moses sister who complained about Moses wife. Later in the 1st century, congregations were instructed to do this that the wrongdoer may repent and reapply themselves to reach out for God's approval. This is much like Jews previously practiced by removing people from the Sanhedrin, who actual had to move away from God's people in order to be able to work and live.  
    Jehovah's Witnesses have great desire that the day will soon appear when Jehovah reads the inner person of every adult on Earth and each one will be marked as a sheep or a goat.The goats: everyone who has no personal relationship with the true God Jehovah, will no longer do any harmful acts or acts of any kind on Earth. While the sheep, those who have tried to act in a way that pleases God, both in their imagination and visible acts, will be allowed to continue living on Earth and growing towards the perfection Jesus enjoyed as a human being.These are ones who make a practice of bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ; this is the only solution to the excelling of wickedness being imagined and practiced on Earth. 
    The Goal of Satan:As God's adversary, is to distort how you view any of Jehovah's Witnesses. He wants you see something unholy, transgressors of what is good. He propels this thought so that you will be less likely to listen to them while they do the will of God, just as Jesus did, preach the Good News of God's Kingdom. Just as Satan used many different means to stop Jesus from loyally acting as God's appointed Messiah, Satan will use many different ways to stop people from learning how God's Kingdom will set all matters straight. Satan does not want anyone to gain eternal life as Jehovah's friend since he will not be allowed life after his judgment is executed. That Good News of God's Kingdom includes the knowledge that God will give what is deserving to everyone bringing reproach on His Holy Name. You should also know that the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses hate what is bad and try to act as an exemplary neighbor!
     
  22. Haha
  23. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    When you promise your clients the moon and deliver goose eggs, you’ve got to say something. What do you think he is going to say? “I lost because I’m a crummy lawyer?”
    It’s why you don’t apologize for anything. It will be framed as a confession. 
  24. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    But if the GB / Bethel / Circuit Overseers / Elders et al, are allowed to tell half the Org and still pretend it is confidential then that is the biggest immoral / dishonest / unloving / merciless thing ever.  It is a loophole of the worst kind.  
    The case may be ten years old, but that does not make it any less important in God's / Christ's opinion surely. Surely THEY would want justice and mercy done ? 
    As JTR (I think it was ) said, the W/t / JW Org is run by the accountants and lawyers .
    It is not God's Organisation because it proves to be man's. 
    @Srecko Sostar  The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of  organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation. 
    Sadly there is much persecution in Russia. There may be persecution elsewhere but I'm not aware of it. In Russia though it has been financial as well as physical. 
    But it annoys me when JWs pretend that the CSA problems are part of persecution, because in truth they are caused by the dishonesty in the Org itself. 
    In my opinion, whatever is printed in the W/t or in the Shepherding the Flock book, nothing has changed. It will still be hidden, and victims will still be shunned and called liars. JWs will still believe the Elders above the victims. Contacting Bethel / Head Office etc, where those brothers do not really know the people involved / the Elders involved / or the true situation, but can only go by their book of rules, will not bring about justice and mercy that God and Christ require.
  25. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    But if the GB / Bethel / Circuit Overseers / Elders et al, are allowed to tell half the Org and still pretend it is confidential then that is the biggest immoral / dishonest / unloving / merciless thing ever.  It is a loophole of the worst kind.  
    The case may be ten years old, but that does not make it any less important in God's / Christ's opinion surely. Surely THEY would want justice and mercy done ? 
    As JTR (I think it was ) said, the W/t / JW Org is run by the accountants and lawyers .
    It is not God's Organisation because it proves to be man's. 
    @Srecko Sostar  The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of  organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation. 
    Sadly there is much persecution in Russia. There may be persecution elsewhere but I'm not aware of it. In Russia though it has been financial as well as physical. 
    But it annoys me when JWs pretend that the CSA problems are part of persecution, because in truth they are caused by the dishonesty in the Org itself. 
    In my opinion, whatever is printed in the W/t or in the Shepherding the Flock book, nothing has changed. It will still be hidden, and victims will still be shunned and called liars. JWs will still believe the Elders above the victims. Contacting Bethel / Head Office etc, where those brothers do not really know the people involved / the Elders involved / or the true situation, but can only go by their book of rules, will not bring about justice and mercy that God and Christ require.
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