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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in 1914   
    Someone has to delegate the work.  The GB do not do the work but give oversight.  So you think women should be doing this work when bible clearly says that overseers must be men?
  2. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in 1914   
    Quote @TrueTomHarley  "These types of comments from you are so frequent that it seems clear to me you are someone who wants to be told what to do—by a “true anointed,” of course—but you do want to be told what to do. "
    Coming from a man that asks if he is allowed to use blood fractions. Is it legitimate ? He asks. 
    Well Tom it seems to be you that want to be given instructions from men.  
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You are so naive  @Arauna .  Can you seriously not see that your GB are the ones forming an elite group.
    It is they that claim they, only those 8 men, are the F&DS. It is they that tell other Anointed not to gather together to study God's Word.
    Why would your GB tell the body of Christ not to gather together, to upbuild one another ? 
    As for singling out the rich man. Anyone that supports the GB are in fact then 'singling out the rich man', by putting the GB above other Anointed. 
  3. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in 1914   
    Yes, only if your motives are pure.  Why form an elite group? Jesus never gave permission for this. Read James and you will see that if you single out the rich man or show any partiality - you are not doing the will of  jehovah but your own will.
  4. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Kosonen in 1914   
    @Arauna  wrore: "If they were truly anointed they would not want to single themselves out and get their own following.  True humility does not mean you create your own club."
    But according to Jesus it should not be a problem for anointed to privately study the bible without WT guidance. Jesus promised that he would be with them.
    Matthew 18:19 Again I tell you truly, if two of you on earth agree concerning anything of importance that they should request, it will take place for them on account of my Father in heaven.+20  For where there are two or three gathered together in my name,+ there I am in their midst.”
  5. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in 1914   
    There you go again. If they were truly anointed they would not want to single themselves out and get their own following.  True humility does not mean you create your own club.
  6. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    Your whole idea of another 10 years is irrelevant. Jesus was telling them that in the time period between the question and the fulfillment (turned out to be about 34 to 37 years) that it would be too late to try to prepare based on a sign. They should not start getting all excited about a war here, or a war there, an earthquake here or there, or a famine here or there, and to think that these might be signs of the END. So many of these things, even GREAT earthquakes, for example, might scare them half to death, might even kill some of them. But, stiil, they should not get all excited or alarmed into thinking it's a sign of the END, because there will be no sign of the end. At least not until it's too late to prepare, when the "strikingly visible" sign is already obvious in the skies -- and it's immediately after that point when the end of the age (synteleia of the aion) is upon them. 
    The application for the end of that age was pretty obvious, that it would NOT be heralded by signs. And the application for the end of this age should be just as obvious, that it would NOT be heralded by signs. No one should get excited even by a publication from an apostle or an angel, that the end is near due to some sign someone thinks they are seeing. Because it could come at any time as a surprise. It needs no signs. There are certain things expected to happen that we shouldn't get too excited about, and wars, earthquakes are included. Even a letter from an apostle saying the end is upon us, should not get us too excited or alarmed that the end is upon us.
    There have already been many times in history when Christians were killed by earthquakes, wars, and persecutions, and it was not a time to go off into the mountains to start waiting. Remember what Paul said:
    (1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
    (2 Thessalonians 1:7-2:3)  But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you. 11 To that very end we always pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling and with his power perform completely all the good that he pleases and every work of faith. 12 This is so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you and you in union with him, according to the undeserved kindness of our God and of the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.
    (2 Peter 3:10-12) 10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed. 11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which the heavens will be destroyed in flames and the elements will melt in the intense heat!
    Translating 2 Peter 3 and 2 Thess 2:2 as "day of Jehovah" instead of "day of the Lord" has resulted in a conflict that produces some confusion to explain away. Note:
    *** w94 2/15 p. 21 par. 24 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
    That day of Jehovah, when he executes vengeance, will come as a grand finale to the conclusion of the system of things that has marked the day of the Lord Jesus from 1914 onward.
    We now have TWO different "days of the Lord." (There was no evidence that the word "Lord" in 2 Peter 3:12 should have been changed to "Jehovah." This is especially true of 2 Thess 2:2 where the context identified that day of the Lord, as the "the revelation of the Lord Jesus." ) Worse than that, it gives us TWO different "parousias." One "parousia" starts in 1914, and the "parousia of the day of Jehovah" in 2 Peter 3:12 hasn't started yet.
    Notice that the day of the Lord, his presence, is the time when the heavens are destroyed and the elements will melt. In other words, it's a time of unmistakable destruction of the age. It's also the time when the living holy ones are taken up and the time when those holy ones who had died are taken up.
    Also, these writings indicate that the apostles took Jesus words to mean that the end of the entire world system (age) would come as a thief just like the end of the Jewish age. But no one should be able to excite us with the idea that the day of the Lord is already here. (Yet, we have claimed that the day of the Lord already started, in 1914.) If it were already here it would be too late to prepare. Thus Christians are always prepared so they are not overtaken. We should never try to prepare based on a sign someone claims is already upon us. Jesus knew that this produces a kind of false Christianity and even the temptation to "lord it over" one another because we can imagine that we live in a time when "the Master is delaying" and we think that we should be something MORE than just a servant who continues to do things the way we did when the Master was here with us.
    This is why the idea of a Governing Body believing they are the embodiment of the Faithful Slave can be so dangerous. It can be the same as falling into the temptation to say "my master is delaying" and try to become a "leader" or "rabbi" who can claim they know things that Jesus never claimed. If it was never OK to try to set oneself up as a leader or rabbi when Jesus was on earth, then why would it be OK to do that when he is "delaying."
     
    Should also note that the Watchtower publications teach us that Kingdom was BORN in 1914, so all these birth pangs should have been in the years leading up to 1914.
    (Revelation 12:1, 2) 12 Then a great sign was seen in heaven: A woman was arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of 12 stars, 2 and she was pregnant. And she was crying out in her pains and in her agony to give birth.
    That's supposed to be 1914. So we have the birth pangs starting after the child is born.
  7. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    These types of comments from you are so frequent that it seems clear to me you are someone who wants to be told what to do—by a “true anointed,” of course—but you do want to be told what to do.
    Brothers who are like this are nightmares in the congregation—transforming every bit of counsel into a RULE that they beat others over the head with, so it is just as well that you are out. Much effort is made through the various schools to refine this ‘rule-mongering” quality out of our people. In your case, you appear to have saved them the trouble.
    What that means is that you cannot order them from Bethel anymore. Would you require them to print everything forever?
    They have ALL been recently made available on the JW app, so they couldn’t have been THAT “infamous,” could they?  That they were not digitally available before I think is just a matter of having bigger fish to fry. They had to wait their turn. 
    The discussions of the beasts with the seven heads—particularly the “image of the beast” that has life breathed into it by the two-headed one—the beast that was, was not, and yet is—the central issue of Jehovah’s sovereignty vs man’s sovereignty —there is nothing like it anywhere.
    What have you fallen back to, 4Jah? Are you checking mean-looking animals at the zoo to see if there is one with 666 written on its forehead?
     
  8. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in A DPA question   
    Not you—don’t you ever think? 
    If I need a jack-in-the-box that says to every comment “Jehovah’s Witnesses Suck” I’ll go to the store and buy one.
  9. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    It is more easier and with less repercussions if you question the Bible. But to question GB ... :))) 
    How will ordinary "rank and file" know who "anointed" is? By watching JWorg broadcasting? :))
  10. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Leander H. McNelly in 1914   
    Quote @Anna  "Many JW's don't think beyond what is black and white, and need everything not only served up, but already digested." 
    Yes, this is why the GB and Writing Dept' et al are so dangerous. Because JW boots on the ground have stopped thinking and just serve the GB and It's Org. You seem to admit it but when I put it in words you they deny it. You are kinda funny Anna.  
    Quote "This is why many, like you, are under the wrong impression that the GB are supposed to make no mistakes, and cannot be questioned. "
    In my opinion, if God through Christ was guiding the GB then the GB would get things right. Why? Well firstly, it seems that in the  eyes of the GB et al, Armageddon is 'so close'.  So there is no time to loose. The preaching work and the congregation should therefore be spot on / almost perfect, so as not to stumble anyone. Why? Because it is PEOPLE'S LIVES AT RISK. It would seem that JW teaching is that if a person dies at Armageddon they do not get a second chance. Hence if a person is stumbled by GB /JW Org teachings, or by Elders in congregations then Luke 17 v 1 & 2 comes into play.
     Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! 2  It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones.
    Secondly. You know what would happen if a congregant started questioning the GB's 'guidance'. If a congregant started talking to others in their congregation, suggesting that the GB were giving false information. The said person would firstly be warned, secondly be disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'. 
    So how does one 'question the GB' ? Would they give me a personal invitation to visit them to question them ? I think not. (Apart from which i could never afford the air fare anyway).  I am talking about questioning the GB not writing to Bethel, as the later does no good at all. 
    Quote " What do you think the identifying mark of these "real anointed" is? "
    Zechariah 8 v 23
    “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nationsj will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”
    So how will those 'ten men' know exactly who that 'Jew' is ?  
    Quote "The anointed of those days were baptized with holy spirit, the HS helped them to speak languages they never knew before, it helped them to perform miracles. All that was finished and done when the last of them died, and wasn't going to happen again."
    Are you sure it won't happen again ? Are not the Anointed today 'baptised' with Holy Spirit ? Are they not inspired of God ? How then, in fact, do they know they are the Anointed ?  You of little faith.
    BUT your GB treads them down. Your GB slyly suggests that they might be 'mentally ill' and then to those that are Anointed it tells them they do not need to contact each other or to study God's word together.
    Why would your GB do that ? Why would your GB say that only they, those 8 men, are the F&DS ? 
    Would not truly anointed ones actually want to meet together ? Would not a true F&DS want to gather all the Anointed (via internet / telephone / letter / etc) so as to confer / discuss / build up and share thoughts and blessings from God through Christ ? 
    Quote Anna " b4ucuhear hit the nail on the head when he said regarding those taking the lead: "
    So I'll quote him " Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before.
    You think JESUS gets it wrong ? Seriously ?  So now you are prepared to blame Jesus for the faults of your GB.
    No hope it seems for those that put the GB and JW Org above God and Christ. 
    Have a good day Anna. 
     
     
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Yesterday my wife reading this book .....and then go to week meeting ....??? I wonder why and want to comment on her reading, but i didn't.  
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in A DPA question   
    Question: (serious question open to all)
    When something is said to be a “conscience matter”—as the “blood fractions” today is said to be—does that mean that there IS a right and a wrong to it, but Jehovah allows “wiggle room” “on account of our hardheartedness”?
    Or
    Does it mean that there legitimately are two different ways of looking at a matter, and he really does encourage us to use our conscience in choosing the course that seems the most reasonable to us?
  13. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    You don’t ‘downvote’ this post, 4Jah2Me—why in the world would you do that? Unless you are mad that I do not consider you an Einstein.
  14. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    Yes. That's the proposition here. It's found in many commentaries of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 and it fits the idea that Jesus always warned about when he said not to look for any advance signs. A lot of people don't realize it was also C.T.Russell's take on those verses.
    But we need to be careful, too, about thinking it has no significance for a larger event than the one on Jerusalem. We know that Jesus was answering their question about the Parousia/Synteleia of the Aion for Jerusalem and the Temple especially. (The word Parousia here refers to a Royal Visitation, not an invisible presence. The word Synteleia refers to a Destructive Judgment Event, an "End of Things Together" not a conclusion leading up to the actual conclusion.)
    Jesus invisible presence was not part of the question, and that invisible presence never ended from the time he said "Look! I am with you all the days until the Synteleia of the Age.
    Yes, the disciples sincerely wanted to know if they could get a sign to warn them in advance of the Temple Judgment Jesus had just described to them. This is natural.
    Surely, if Jesus told you in 1970 that the World Trade Center in New York City was going to be turned into a pile of rubble someday, you would definitely want to know if you could get an advance sign to warn others in time. Now imagine that you asked for such a sign and the first words out of Jesus' mouth were "DO NOT BE MISLED. Many will try to convince you that they have special knowledge about the time this will happen, but DO NOT BE MISLED. You are going to hear of wars, reports of wars, earthquakes, and pestilences and famines between now and then. But these do NOT mean the END. If anything, these things will just be a BEGINNING, as things might get worse and worse between now and then. But in the end, people will be surprised, as if there had been no warning at all. It will come like a thief in the night. There will be no time to respond. The only SIGN will be the one you see in the SKY as these things are happening.
    That's a very common reading of the verses, and it's the one that almost all Witnesses believe and make use of. It can make sense that way, too, but it makes more sense with the rest of the Bible if we look carefully at EACH word Jesus used here.
  15. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    Maybe we can liken traditional 1914 views to Newton’s physics and newfangled views to Einstein’s.
    Newton‘s laws of physics work perfectly well in the real world. You can land a man on Mars with them no sweat. So also does 1914 work in the real spiritual world—you can come up with the neatest ways to explain events since then—“facts on the ground,” they have been called— not to mention the most clever book interpreting the Book of Revelation, with connections too compelling not to take to heart.
    Contrast that with Revelation as interpreted elsewhere, such as this article with regard to LDS. It is drivel so bland one cannot imagine spending time with it, full of ‘how do you feel about this?’s and ‘what do you think about that?’s. I don’t need the stupid book in that event—I’ll just come here to see what JTR, 4Jah, Srecko, and Witness thinks.
    https://religionnews.com/2019/12/23/what-do-mormons-do-with-the-book-of-revelation/
    But under extreme conditions of Newton physics, some anomalies pop up, prompting Einstein to delve into and rewrite laws. Are there extreme conditions today with regard to 1914? Overlapping generations start to stretch thin—how long until they snap apart? the Einsteins here start to fret—and so they investigate to rewrite basic understandings.
    I know, I know—it doesn’t explain everything. But I kind of like it. If I had more time and interest, “Oscar Einstein” would soon be making his appearance.
     
  16. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    I think it's pretty obvious the world "changed" because of WWI around 1914 to 1918. Many things changed for the better and many things changed for the worse. Historians always look for, and try to explain certain historical turning points to mark off which eras of history their specific chapters will cover, and sometimes the eras that their entire books will cover. A book on US history, for example, will nearly always cover the colonial period up to 1776 (the War), then from that war up to 1861 (the War), then from that war up until 1914-1918 (the War), then from that war up until WWII, then from that war up until the Vietnam War, Iraq, etc.
    Therefore it should not be hard to find as many quotes about 1914 as there are books about historical periods that touch on WWI. And all of them should defend how this era marked a change. When writers talk about the "Civil War" in the US, they often discuss how it was the first war where technology (aircraft/balloons, submarines, iron battleships, Gattling guns) REALLY began to replace hand-to-hand combat (although arrows, canons, firearms and dynamite) had similar effects on war for many years before.
    Still, you can't argue against the fact that these technologies had their first major effects around the world until around WWI, just as historians will argue the first major effects of nuclear technology around WWII.
    It is no surprise then that --when looking for a sign-- that people are going to do exactly what Jesus said they would do. In Matthew 24, Jesus said that people would be looking at war and earthquakes and famines and pestilence and MISTAKING these things for signs. In fact, C.T.Russell appeared to be exactly correct when he indicated that such things would NOT be signs, but would be the kinds of things that people have suffered for these past 18 centuries (now nearly 20 centuries) since Jesus told us not to be FOOLED into thinking such things are signs.
    Jesus' warning about the kinds of things we should not get fooled by, seems ever more apt now that technology has brought war and rumors of war to nearly every continent on earth.
    But we should also note how, in trying to prove 1914, we are so "happy" that there was a great war in that year, that we have been very sloppy about how we read Matthew 24, and we give not a thought to the idea that Russell and many other Bible commentaries indicated. 
    Also, we have to admit, what would be happening right now if the Watchtower had KEPT the dates 1915, 1918, or 1925 as the replacement dates for events once predicted in 1914  that failed to come true. Only after all those other dates also failed for the events expected for 1914, the Watchtower turned back all its emphasis on 1914 again, emphasizing the "war" part of the sign. But if it hadn't gone back to that date for the "sign" it's easy to realize that we would right now be arguing for why things actually changed in the world in 1918, for example, and we (Witnesses) would be arguing against 1914. We might even be talking about how all those secular historians were wrong and blinded by their constant quotes about 1914, when persons with eyes of faith realized that the Bible had pointed to 1918 all along. (We might even make fun of them for how they had truly missed the sign in Matthew that was so obvious when it was 1918 that saw both WAR, and FAMINE, and PESTILENCE (Spanish Influenza) and an 8.3 EARTHQUAKE in the Philippines, just months after an 8.5 in Samoa and just months before an 8.1 in Tonga.)
    And if the false chronology we depended on for 1914 had been seen in advance to give us 1934 or 1944 or 1954, you can be sure that we would be now be arguing for those years instead.
    But of course a focus on 1918 (or 1954) would be just another way to ignore Jesus' warning about being misled. It is because 1914 was a really truly pivotal date in modern history that we have been so easily misled. It's the very reason we have usually ignored Jesus' warning not to be misled when we see wars, earthquakes, pestilence, persecution, etc.
    We forget that Jesus' disciples asked him for a sign so they would know WHEN the impending judgment day on Jerusalem's temple would be ABOUT to occur. (Not as a sign to know when something had invisibly occurred in the past.)
    Jesus' answer indicated that impostors and false prophets would be going around declaring that a sign had already occurred and he indicated that people might mistakenly point to wars, earthquakes, and famines as their evidence. People might say they know it happened even though it was invisible to the people they were trying to convince, claiming Jesus had returned to an inner room somewhere, or it was over here, or over there. But Jesus said that it would be easy to know that these people were wrong because the parousia/synteleia (judgment day) would be as unmistakable as a lightning strike that instantly crosses from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth. There would be no advance warning signs, because it had to come as a thief in the night. Thieves don't give advance warning signs. Only after it was too late to prepare, THEN THE SIGN WOULD APPEAR IN THE HEAVENS. 
  17. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Quote @Anna  "Many JW's don't think beyond what is black and white, and need everything not only served up, but already digested." 
    Yes, this is why the GB and Writing Dept' et al are so dangerous. Because JW boots on the ground have stopped thinking and just serve the GB and It's Org. You seem to admit it but when I put it in words you they deny it. You are kinda funny Anna.  
    Quote "This is why many, like you, are under the wrong impression that the GB are supposed to make no mistakes, and cannot be questioned. "
    In my opinion, if God through Christ was guiding the GB then the GB would get things right. Why? Well firstly, it seems that in the  eyes of the GB et al, Armageddon is 'so close'.  So there is no time to loose. The preaching work and the congregation should therefore be spot on / almost perfect, so as not to stumble anyone. Why? Because it is PEOPLE'S LIVES AT RISK. It would seem that JW teaching is that if a person dies at Armageddon they do not get a second chance. Hence if a person is stumbled by GB /JW Org teachings, or by Elders in congregations then Luke 17 v 1 & 2 comes into play.
     Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! 2  It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones.
    Secondly. You know what would happen if a congregant started questioning the GB's 'guidance'. If a congregant started talking to others in their congregation, suggesting that the GB were giving false information. The said person would firstly be warned, secondly be disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'. 
    So how does one 'question the GB' ? Would they give me a personal invitation to visit them to question them ? I think not. (Apart from which i could never afford the air fare anyway).  I am talking about questioning the GB not writing to Bethel, as the later does no good at all. 
    Quote " What do you think the identifying mark of these "real anointed" is? "
    Zechariah 8 v 23
    “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nationsj will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”
    So how will those 'ten men' know exactly who that 'Jew' is ?  
    Quote "The anointed of those days were baptized with holy spirit, the HS helped them to speak languages they never knew before, it helped them to perform miracles. All that was finished and done when the last of them died, and wasn't going to happen again."
    Are you sure it won't happen again ? Are not the Anointed today 'baptised' with Holy Spirit ? Are they not inspired of God ? How then, in fact, do they know they are the Anointed ?  You of little faith.
    BUT your GB treads them down. Your GB slyly suggests that they might be 'mentally ill' and then to those that are Anointed it tells them they do not need to contact each other or to study God's word together.
    Why would your GB do that ? Why would your GB say that only they, those 8 men, are the F&DS ? 
    Would not truly anointed ones actually want to meet together ? Would not a true F&DS want to gather all the Anointed (via internet / telephone / letter / etc) so as to confer / discuss / build up and share thoughts and blessings from God through Christ ? 
    Quote Anna " b4ucuhear hit the nail on the head when he said regarding those taking the lead: "
    So I'll quote him " Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before.
    You think JESUS gets it wrong ? Seriously ?  So now you are prepared to blame Jesus for the faults of your GB.
    No hope it seems for those that put the GB and JW Org above God and Christ. 
    Have a good day Anna. 
     
     
  18. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in 1914   
    The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.  WT 17/2  p. 26,27
     
    “I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him—this one bears much fruit, for apart from me you are not able to do anything. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown out as a branch, and dries up, and they gather them and throw them  into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this: that you bear much fruit, and prove to be my disciples.” John 15:5-8
     “For false messiahs and false prophets will appear, and will produce great signs and wonders in order to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”  Matt 24:24
    “And by his planning he will make a success of deceit by his hand, and in his mind he will boast, and in their ease he will destroy many, and even against the prince of princes (Isa 9:6) he will rise up, and he will be broken, but not by human hands.”  Dan 8:25
     “Now we ask you, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to him, 2 that you not be easily shaken from your composure, nor be troubled either by a spirit or by a message or by a letter alleged to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has arrived. (1914)  3 Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and who exalts himself over every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, proclaiming that he himself is God.”  2 Thess 2:1-4
     
     
     
     
  19. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Do you suggest, with this quote, how people would live in more peace if technology (materialistic) progress did not happen?   
  20. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Kosonen in 1914   
    @Arauna What you say is not so remarkable because the world's population has been able to grow thanks to better life conditions the past 100 years than before. The centuries before people died prematurely in larger scales from disease, violence, famine and wars.
    Please check the link below. There are numbers of world's population through centuries
     http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/other/worldpop.html
  21. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    When someone uses a stone instead of their hands, and instead of stone he uses a bronze sword and instead of a bronze sword he uses an iron sword .... this is the advancement of technology and causes wonder in the eyes of the beholder.
    If Bible (and prophecies and events in the past) speaks in this manner, than all in this world are "unusual events" aka miracles from the very beginning and not only after 1914. (especially if individual see something for the first time)
    By the way, first murder, first rape, first slavery ...etc.  were also unusual events when happened for the first time. And now these are everyday events for thousands of years already.
  22. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in 1914   
    Before 1914 there were no wars with flame-throwers, airplanes, large submarines (one-man subs yes in civil war),  abundance of machine guns, tanks,  chemical warfare,  and the list goes on.  It was not called the Great War for nothing ; and later WW1 because of the new weaponized trend which started and involved coalitions which covered the world.  Millions died not hundreds of thousands like before. 
    There were illnesses in all wars and times but the Spanish influenza was not just contained to regions like the black plague was in ancient times - it was world-wide and the deaths almost equaled the great war itself.
    The preaching of the "kingdom"  in the entire world has never been done ever before because christendom are not preaching a government.  Matt 24:14 specifically says: "kingdom".   
    Not really- Noah lived 650 years. The generation of the flood was 120 years....... and the bible itself compares the time of the flood with the time of the end. ..... so start complaining when 120 years has passed.
    If you are sitting in safety in a rich country you can say this. Maybe your country is the one causing death and destruction in other countries to maintain its supremacy.
    Hunger in one place after another due to more than 50 wars  in many places until terrorists took over.  I have lost count because Africa is in chaos and journalists do not write about this. Conventional warfare has been replaced by terrorism with daily death tolls of 60 or more. This is war-like. Do you see it in the news?
    Europe sees daily stabbings of 3 or more,  since the new millennia we see wars in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan (longest US war ever) Yemen and continuous civil war in Palestine, Israel, and the Arab spring in north Africa also comes to mind......
    Apart  from internal party and racial strife in countries such as USA (this is going on in all countries on earth) we see again a build-up of terrible fear-inspiring weapons. 
    The first modern technological wars which started in 1914 is being improved upon every time mankind goes to war. ..... it is like birth pains which are escalating. No wonder jehovah says - no flesh will be saved if he does not step in.  Will they start to use their weapons? We do not know...... all we do know it will be bad and it will be in this time period marked by its beginning in 1914. 
     
  23. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in 1914   
    P.S. Correction: To be fair, I should have never used the word "channel" as that was never what was questioned, because the only channel God is using to communicate with mankind is his Word, the Bible. The word that was actually used is "spokesperson" for God, and it is obvious that anyone who "speaks" the Word of God (from the Bible) is his spokesperson.  G. Jackson remarked that it is anyone who gives comfort and help through the scriptures.....
  24. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in 1914   
    It has been put in writing, but no it so many words as he said at the ARC. Not black and white. Many JW's don't think beyond what is black and white, and need everything not only served up, but already digested. This is why many, like you, are under the wrong impression that the GB are supposed to make no mistakes, and cannot be questioned. And then, like you, when they find out they have made mistakes, their faith is shaken, and they throw out the baby with the bath water.
    So then you keep talking about the "real anointed"....
    What do you think the identifying mark of these "real anointed" is?  What should these "real anointed" be like? Like the anointed in the first century? Perhaps like impulsive Peter, who denied Christ three times, and was hypocritical when it came to impartiality or perhaps like Paul, who had outbursts of anger, or Barnabas who was swayed by others to act pretentiously? The Bible does not mention every detail of the lives of the anointed, and the mistakes they made, but it is obvious that they were imperfect and did make mistakes. Should we expect any less from the "real anointed" today? Because you seem to be stuck on the idea that the true anointed would never make any mistakes. But that is not a Biblical teaching at all. Why else were the anointed of the 1st century admonished to continue putting up with one another? Why did James say to his fellow anointed that they were to confess their sins to one another? Why did Paul admit it was a battle to do the right thing, and that sometimes he failed? The anointed of those days were baptized with holy spirit, the HS helped them to speak languages they never knew before, it helped them to perform miracles. All that was finished and done when the last of them died, and wasn't going to happen again. Jesus said that the HS was going to guide the anointed into all the truth. There is no indication that this was going to be an instantaneous revelation. On the contrary it was going to be gradual, just like the dawning of a day. (according to the scriptures).  Not only that, but "all the truth" is a relative term, as according to the Bible we will never know all the truth. So "all the truth" means what Jehovah wants us to know, and when he wants us to know it.
    @b4ucuhear hit the nail on the head when he said regarding those taking the lead:  "People need to know the difference. "Whole-souled devotion" to Jehovah does not mean whole-souled devotion to imperfect men - even when we respect what authority they have as part of Jehovah's arrangement and offer scriptural obedience. " One reason is that some of these men are not who they appear to be (whether they be "wolves in sheep's clothing," "wicked men and imposters," "rocks hidden below the surface..." There is no level of authority within the organization where such men have not been found.) Should we be obedient to them? We need to know the difference when such men (i.e.. apostates or immoral men) direct things not in harmony with Jesus' direction as recorded in the Bible. Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before. No, the reality is that we still have to use our brains".  (emphasis mine).
    The above sentiments apply not only to apostates and immoral men, but to anyone in the position of leadership (just in case you don't know, that means the GB too). This is why G. Jackson was able to say that (paraphrased), "anyone who has the Bible can check whether the GB is doing things according to the Bible". That means YOU too! So please tell, Bible in hand, what have you found?
     
  25. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to the Sower of Seed in 1914   
    Maybe you should re read the question? 
    EVIDENCE of KINGSHIP AFTER JOHN WROTE REVELATION in the 1st Century?
    does having all authority equal being enthroned as King?
    Or does being enthroned demand a ceremony where Jehovah exalts Christ as King before everyone involved, 1st the angels, then mankind? 
    Satan, who rejects Christ Kingship would be thrown out immediately or would Christ just hangout with him in Heaven 2000 years?
    Satan has authority over everyone on Earth, was he Enthroned as Earths King?
    To better understand, If Christ had ALL AUTHORITY: Why did he not order Satan to desist all wicked influence on Christ's Brothers?
    Now, you are a single apostate, will God only deliver you? 
    For God must deliver those who believe the Truth expressed by a Faithful Slave, who are Christ's Brothers. Mtt.24:45
    Are You One of Christ's Brothers dispensing the Truth In HARMONY with a Faithful Slave?
    The Good News being accomplished throughout the Earth is being lead by angelic direction, the sheep are directed to the Faithful Slave and the Waters of Truth.........................NOT TO YOU
    WHO SHOULD CONFORM?
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