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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    It all depends upon where you look and what is most important to you.
    I am reminded of that line from the 1968 book The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life: “True, there has been progress in a materialistic way. But is it really progress when men send rockets to the moon, and yet cannot live together in peace on earth?”
    Some people think it is.
  2. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in 1914   
    I did, with plenty of scripture. I’m surprised that not even Ps 110:2  clicked.   Maybe you should go back and read them?  But, here’s another one:
    “And also, corresponding to this, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, with angels and authorities and powers having been subjected to him.” 1 Pet 3:21,22
    What power did Jesus say he possessed when on the earth?
    “Jesus came near and said to them, "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.”
    What did he tell his apostles?
    "Look, I have given you the authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy; nothing at all will harm you.”  Luke 10:19
    This gives evidence that Jesus began his kingdom rule even when on the earth, starting with this given authority that produced results, when sharing it with his apostles.
    Why did he take those actions?  To set the groundwork for the Kingdom to come, which required a complete Temple of “living stones” built on his body, to be proven worthy to rule with him in God’s Kingdom.  (John 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 5:9,10) A ruler is not given authority and power over others who are in subjection to him, without utilizing that authority and power, which we see that Jesus did utilize his authority. 
     
    And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying,
    “Now the salvation and the power
        and the kingdom of our God
        and the authority of his Christ have come,
    because the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down,
        the one who accuses them before our God day and night.
    Who is being continually accused by Satan?  Each individual anointed one, a "brother" of Christ, beginning with those in the first century, who is tested just as Jesus was through slander against them, and deceit to mislead them.   (Luke 22:31; John 16:20,22,33; Eph 6:12)
    Read further –
    Rev 12:11 – “And they conquered him by the blood of the Lamb
        and by the word of their testimony,
    and they did not love their lives until death.”
    Each anointed must “conquer” Satan by their testimony to truth.  This is what the battle is about – conquering Satan’s lies with Christ’s truth.  During the last days, the remaining remnant of anointed ones have the most difficult deception inspired by Satan, placed before them.  2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:1,2,11,12,14-17; 12:17; 9:5,9; 6:9-11 
    To believe that there is a literal 1000 years after Armageddon and that Satan is let loose then to cause destruction and death, would be charging Jesus Christ as having “no hurry to cleanse the Earth of the haters of God”. As if during his time in heaven since his resurrection he was completely ineffective even through Armageddon, of putting enemies under his feet. 
    “But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”  1 Cor 15:23-27a”
    Death is destroyed in the end - at the end of Armageddon.  Death is not resurrected a thousand literal years after Armageddon.
    Since Jesus began ruling in the first century, his symbolic reign of a “thousand years” also began.   We have obvious scriptures that tell us that a thousand years can be symbolic. (Ps 90:4; 2 Pet 3:8)   And since the symbolic book of Revelation uses it (Rev 20:2,3,7), we should see that it can’t be a literal time period.    As I believe I’ve pointed out here in the past, the scripture’s use of a “1,000” can mean a reached fullness, perfection. Researching the frequent use of a “1,000” in scriptures supports this.  
    And the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” 18 So he said to them, “I saw Satan falling like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I have given you the authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will ever harm you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are inscribed in heaven.”  Luke 10:17-20
    This gives evidence that Satan was “abyssed” or restricted in using his full powers against the anointed until the last days, when he is “let loose”…to DECEIVE THE SAINTS. 
    Your organization teaches you a confused rendition of the identities of Gog and Magog of Revelation 20:7,8. Simply, they are the two Beasts of Revelation. (Rev 13)  Your leaders tell you Gog and Magog appear during Armageddon, and even after Armageddon.  I don’t see anything in God’s Word that supports two Gogs and two Magogs, one pair to appear now and one later.   This confusion is because of their teaching of a thousand years to come after Armageddon, and all is based on the falsehood of 1914, where Jesus is found to be languishing in heaven until 1914. 
    Rev 20:9,10 states that the “saints”/anointed are surrounded by “Gog and Magog” at the end of the symbolic thousand years to be deceived by the devil, the beast and the false prophet.  (Rev 16:13,14; Rev 13:1,2,11,12)   If this was to occur when the saints are ruling with Christ on the other side of Armageddon, they can’t be surrounded if they have received a “kingdom”.  They will have conquered Satan and his lies well before then.  They will have been found victorious over the Beast/organization.  Rev 15:2 
    So, where are the anointed today?  What “surrounds” them?  The walls of the organization and the false teachings of 1914, a “thousand years” to come, the need for an earthly organization, and many more lies that they must individually conquer, even if it means being “killed” for rejecting them, and giving testimony to Christ’s truth.  Matt 16:25; Rev 13:15; 11:3,7
     
    The signs are spiritual, not physical although Satan will lead you to believe they all take place in the realm of the physical earth and the world; and he can make it physically happen.  Job 1:16-19
    The “kings”/”nations” that are at war are Jesus’ “kings of the earth”; the faithful against the unfaithful.  Rev 1:5; 5:9,10; 16:14; 17:1,2
    “food shortages”, the result of an “evil steward” ruling of the House of God, cutting off all supply of spiritual provisions that the entire household of anointed priests should contribute to.   Luke 16:1,2; Amos 8:11; 2 Chron 15:3; Rev 2:9. 
    “earthquakes”, Heb 12:26; Isa 13:13; Luke 23:30; Isa 2:19,21; Hos 10:8
     If you read through Matt 24, who are warned not to be deceived in the last days, and by whom?
     Within the last say, 4-5 years, I and other anointed ones have learned that “Jehovah” is not appropriate to use when referring to God.
    A declaration of YHWH/YHVH to my lord,
    “Sit at my right hand
    until I make your enemies your footstool.”
    2 YHWH will send out your mighty scepter from Zion;
    rule in the midst of your enemies.  Ps 110:1,2
    Although, if you notice that Jesus never did refer to God as “Jehovah”; nor YHWH, but always, “Father”. The WT has taken bold liberty to insert “Jehovah” into its NWT of the Greek scriptures. But, look at Matt 22:41-46, read from Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear:
    “Having been lead together but of the Pharisees inquired upon them the Jesus saying What to you does it seem about the Christ?  Who’s son is he?  They are saying to him Of the David   He is saying to them How therefore David in spirit is calling him Lord saying    Said Lord to the lord of me   Be sitting out of right-hand [parts] of me until likely I should put the enemies of you beneath the feet of you?    If David is calling him Lord how Son of him is he?”
    Your NWT rejected their own Interlinear rendering and inserted “Jehovah”, and I believe you will not find an Interlinear using “Jehovah” in these scriptures.   
     
    Again:
    Ps 110:2 - The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
    Rule in the midst of Your enemies!
    Do you see it? God is telling Christ when he sat down at His right hand,  to RULE!
    "RULE" - 
    רָדָה râdâh, raw-daw'; a primitive root; to tread down, i.e. subjugate; specifically, to crumble off:—(come to, make to) have dominion, prevail against, reign, (bear, make to) rule,(-r, over), take.
    "REIGN IN THE MIDST OF YOUR ENEMIES"!
     
     
    Pearl Doxsey, "The Sign of the End" 4womaninthewilderness
     
     
  3. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    I believe how the order is always similar: First you thanks God, and Second blame the people. Almost always works this way
    That makes another problem. Do you by "unusual events" mean "miracles"? If yes, we both shall be disappointed. WT Society said, miracles stopped in 1 Century. 
    "we have witnessed many unusual events"
    Obviously you speaking about "signs": wars, famine, crimes .... But, all what was described not belong to "unusual events". Bible said how nothing new is happening under Earth. In that context, wars, famine, earthquakes, crimes .... can't be considered  as "unusual"  for humankind, these are not "miracles". But everyday process in life of people and Earth. Even "preaching" is not a miracle, but repeated history.
  4. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    Did you check that on yours?
  5. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in 1914   
    That cliche is happening right now!  The whole world is repeating the same history we saw before WW1 and WW2 right now!!. It looks different on the surface but yet the same....... so they will wake up too late.  Wicked mankind is doomed to repeat the same history over and over with worse results than ever before. 
    We should know our own JW history with its flaws but endless analyses  on it does not serve a purpose - each generation  of GB will make new mistakes and if your expectations are that the JW.org. will not make new mistakes or cannot make them  - think again. 
    Thankfully there are several  ibble principles we can apply to this:  jehovah judges the end of a matter not its beginning.  Wicked king  manasseh  comes to mind.
    Jehovah does not see the imperfection but the motive of the heart. Ps 103 comes to mind - he remembers we are flesh.  The world judges JWs harshly on every little detail but jehovah judges us with tenderness because we try hard to do his will in an increasing hostile world.  Jesus was perfect and was viciously attacked by satan's world -  we also  will not get off lightly
    The light is getting brighter - and JWs are fulfilling bible prophecy related to the last days   Matt 24:14,  Isaiah 2:2-4.  Other Christian religions do not even  understand that the kingdom is a real government and those that do have some other core beliefs that do not come from the bible.
    We should be thankful to jehovah.  We get food that is prepared  in abundance. We get home from work, prepare litteral food, and can sit down with spiritual food already prepared in easy understandable bites/bytes..
    We search for people with the right heart condition. We teach them the newest  bible information we have because this is what we as JW org are right now and  the light we understand at this moment.  We make them aware of our flawed past but to dwell on the past JW history is a mistake.  There are too many positive core teachings the person will not be able to learn from ANY other earthly organization and we must let them eat this first so they can make a decision to join us to serve jehovah  -  or not.  Lot's wife looked back to her detriment.  We must leave our own personal history behind (what high positions we had or could have been, or wicked history ) and focus on the now and the future.  JW  org history is good to know but does NOT affect what we are right now. Mistakes were made and they will definitely come back to bite us in a hostile world - for sure. But we should build our own faith now to withstand the trials ahead.
    People who come to this forum to troll or hate - do not have a ready heart.   On field service we go back to those who show a positive attitude or are prepared to learn despite them having difficult personalities .  We help those who are ready to receive help.  With difficult people I make sure to leave a thought they can think about to change their heart condition. We plant and jehovah makes it grow - or not.....
    Keep evaluating what is taught in the present era - if it is in line with scripture.  Are the GB careful in what they teach today? Not getting political? Sticking to the godly commission of preaching and giving proper spiritual food to all?   Preparing us to be ready for Armageddon?  Not rushing ahead with dates and prophecies like they did before?  I can answer a yes to all of these.
     
    106 years is nothing to jehovah.  I do not know how long before the flood Noah had completed the ark.   Food had to be harvested etc. They could have been mocking him saying:  where is the rain you promised...... your ark has been standing there for so long.... maybe the wood aged a bit in its positions and additional bitumen was needed.  120 years jehovah set for that doomed generation. Did Noah know it was 120 years? Maybe not..... but later he knew because it is written down.  
    The world is mocking us right now.  I love to study ancient history and discovered one aspect  of generation before the GB.   There are multiple generations always living at the same time.  This never bothered me because like Noah we should keep busy with the right things. The evidence around us is overwhelming.  We have been trained by GB to discern the time! ....a d to keep busy with the right things.
  6. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to the Sower of Seed in 1914   
    Imagine you were with Moses and some 3 million camped at the Red Sea, suddenly people are alarmed as they see chariots rushing toward them. As they get closer, some supernatural tornado appears between the chariots and you. Suddenly , your life changed, you were about to be the 1st person Pharaoh struck down with his spear.
    Now miraculously You Are Safe! Are you thankful to God? Or do you begin complaining about Moses leadership?
    1914 saw the beginning of the Last Days, Jesus foretold how they would begin with a war beyond the clash between 2 kings. The war was bad, the resulting peace was not that great, fear had entered the world, fear that it could happen again, world annihilation was now seen as possible, what was never imagined, was now reality.
    The Book of Daniel foretold it, but the Book was sealed until the time of the end. Why were Bible Students were expecting it? Did all religions foretell 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times? What does the End of the Gentile Times mean?
    Revelation 12:7 foretold: And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven.9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 
    Angels battled in Heaven, the losers were thrown to the Earth. Were they upset?
    1914 and WW1 are evidence of the anger Satan felt and his desire to harm those who Jesus was fond of.
    1914 saw the End of the Gentile Times. Jehovah has allowed the World of Mankind to govern themselves. The Jews were unfaithful to their covenant with God. Jehovah loved King David,He promised King David that a man from his lineage would set on God's Throne of Earth's Sovereignty Forever. Jesus casting Satan to the Earth is proof that Jesus, the son of Jesse, has been enthroned as Earth's new King.
    1914 Why didn't Armageddon begin then? Jesus is the primary King, however a "body" of Kings with Priestly abilities, who were once men and women, will better understand and help the many different people on Earth become restored to Jehovah's standards and favor.
    1914 Saw the beginning of the sitting of the 144,000 King and Priests chosen from among the faithful witnesses of Jehovah. Faithfulness included doing the same ministry Jesus taught the Apostles.The ministry is a command that Jesus gave his disciples that were watching him be taken to heaven after his resurrection as a spirit. A person faithful to that command has shown themselves willing to humble themselves while cultivating a sincere desire to earnestly help others. 
    1914 until when? When will the last of the 144,000 go to Heaven? The last will be changed from human to a spirit in the twinkling of an eye just as Armageddon is about to begin! All of the 144,000 , some you may have known, will come to Earth as God's executioners when Armageddon begins. See Mtt.13:36-43
    1914 to 2020: The last 106 years have been some of the most stressful, the most painful, the most deadly, the most unnatural of human history, yet the expressed will of God was to be done during those years. See Mtt.24:14 , Mark 13:10
    The Bible began with the Book of Genesis which explains creation, Adam & Eve, Eden, Satan, rebellion and mans eviction from God's Holy Presence. The pages that follow explain how a Seed of God would become the Messiah and how you could see it was him from Bible verses written hundreds of years before his birth. The Seed,defined Jehovah and taught men to pray to Him for His Kingdom to come. The Seed taught about the "restoration" and a Kingdom of Kings and Priests ruling with him after he had gone to his Father. The Book of Isaiah reveals the promise of earthly life, building houses, growing food and grapes, peace with the animals, youthful flesh and long life first spoken in Isaiah, the Book of Revelation repeats the promise of a long peaceful life of people after Armageddon.See Re.21:3-5. Daniel foretold survivors of a great distress after Michael (Jesus heavenly name) Stands up, which is echoed at Revelation 7:14.
    6000 years ago, The Highest Court gave a complainer about God time to show he could do a better job than God. Who are the jury? Millions upon Millions of spirit creatures who by their integrity have voted that Jehovah has acted properly toward all spirit life. What about human life? Every adult human has a vote, like the angels, they either imitate God or Satan.
    1914 and the Good News. The International Bible Students began in all earnest effort to make the Kingdom known from 1919 until today. Like the person leaving Egypt, we have witnessed many unusual events. Jesus stated these would occur after he was enthroned as Jehovah's Appointed King. For the joy that Jesus saw set in front of him, like a carrot before a horse, Jesus stayed the course, tho chariots of non-believers struck him and mocked his faith, he stayed the course and has sat down at the right hand of God.
    Now wicked men mock those chasing the carrot. I see the waters open before us, as the Hailstones begin to fall, their mocking will stop. Tho they chase after us into the waters, they will remain unknown forever! For all human history of those without the approved faith will be forgotten! While the Names of the Survivors may Last Forever!
    The Expressed Will of God is being Preached in all the inhabited Earth by one religious group.That should tell you who are most closely following Jesus' teachings and who God has empowered with His Holy Spirit. That preaching is the execution of God's Justice, He is warning of His Actions against those who do not honor His King, Jesus, and obey the moral teachings written in His Inspired Word.
    1914 seems like a long time ago, but is it beyond God's Expressed Time?
     
         
     
  7. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in 1914   
    TTH:

    Your opinion that "If you do not  know and understand  history, you are doomed to repeat it.", is a "load of manure" really surprises me. Up until now I knew you did not pay much attention to detail, but I thought you were smarter than THAT.
    You have to know and understand history .... and learn from it ... not to fall into the same trap that has ensnared so many others, and perhaps even one's self
    That is what EXPERIENCE IS !!!
    LEARNING FROM HISTORY.!!!
    To learn from it, you have to know IN DETAIL what has gone on around you before you stumbled on the scene. and understand what it really means.  OFTEN it's not what we know that makes a difference ... but what we know that IS NOT WRONG.
    Details make the difference !
    And now, for a musical interlude to lighten things up, with your very own introduction, illustrating my point that you are NOT a detail oriented person.

    ... and for those in Rio Linda ... it's "Beachwood 4-5789".
     

    The Marvelettes - Beechwood 4-5789.mp4 On an old rotary phone, circa 1960, you would dial BE4-5789, in the United States.
  8. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Who are now in charge "over all Master's belongings"?   
    I would like to emphasize the contrast between the two things that WT separate when explaining items from Luke 12: 42 and 44.
    1) give food allowance at the proper time (from 1919 to nowadays)
    2) in charge of all his possessions (from some future point)
    If we look again how WT Society explained what is meaning of subject 1) and what of subject 2) we see this:  
    subject 1)
    1. What is the primary ingredient in the food that Jehovah provides? ... the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.
    1a. What role do our publications play in providing spiritual food? Through the publications, Jehovah’s servants are given an abundant supply of spiritual things to eat and drink. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20140815/receiving-food-at-proper-time/
    subject 2) 
    These “belongings” include the growing “great crowd” ... supervision of the material facilities...oversees spiritually upbuilding programs...supervision of the all-important work of preaching...and making “disciples ....
    -----------------------------------
    On subject 1): JW members already know how GB not writing enough material for daily production. Perhaps some or many of GB members writing nothing at all. Perhaps Helpers, or for sure, somebody else doing that work. This make question: What GB really doing in purpose, as goal, to prepare and provide "food"?  Bible versions already exist and there is no special need for NWT Translation. And publications? Does people really need so much articles that are repeated (with corrections of incorrect teachings, of course) but been put on new paper and new design? Bible itself, as perfect and inspired word of God should be sufficient, if we compare with err and uninspired magazines? 
    About subject 2): We are able to see how this work looks much more hard and intensive to accomplish. It seems how this tasks are so important and more complicated to work. Is it really how GB has not any influence on this subject 2)?  Whose tasks are these now?  Is there a transition takeover period?
     
     
  9. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in Who are now in charge "over all Master's belongings"?   
    I am sorry if I confused you with my flippant response to Srecko.    Of course, you are right.  I had in mind WT's teachings on what the "unrighteous riches" entails.  
     
  10. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Kosonen in Who are now in charge "over all Master's belongings"?   
    Quote @JW Insider
    "You exaggerate a bit, in implying that the rest of the anointed might get nothing. "
    Sorry this may just be my British humour / sarcasm.  But you must admit the true anointed are being kept in the background whilst the GB 'blow their own trumpet' and exalt themselves. 
  11. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in 1914   
    The reasons of strict attention to history is this:
    If you do not know and understand history ... you are DOOMED to repeat it.
    This is based on the FALSE premise that you are limited to do only one thing, or the other thing.
    Since you are not concerned with our history ... you are doomed to repeat it.
    ..... as you have just demonstrated.
  12. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in 1914   
    I remember when the catholic church changed fish-Friday to non-fish Friday.  My grandmother did not understand it but she just went ahead and did it. She stopped eating only fish on fridays.  No-one in the catholic church now goes back in the history of the catholic church to question that decision/teaching in an endless fashion. It has been accepted as being in line with scripture - so there is no endless rehashing of when the decision was taken and why they had it wrong before that change, who had it wrong etc. It is church history - the past.
    Catholics are now questioning the new decision to have interfaith with other Abrahamic religions. Is it wrong of them to rather question what the church is doing right  now instead of the past?   I think not.  Past  improvements  are accepted and they strive to correct any deviations from gods word in the "current view" of things. 
    Frankly, I do not care if Russel did not understand 1914 or not. I was not living at the time and it does not affect me now. People try to hash it up over and over to prove what?  It is NOW part of our teaching and I accept the teaching.  The reasons I will not go into here. 
    I look at what the GB is teaching NOW because this is affecting us  NOW.  They have made mistakes in the past but so has every other  religion I know of and  most large secular corporations have  absolutely endless issues - it is life.  Most of my working life I saw large issues everywhere - so I have never had the expectation of earthly perfection from ANY organization be it religious or secular. 
    I  therefore will only question teachings which are NOW part of the JW organization.   History is history and if it happens to fit in with past prophecies I will accept it I.e. the swift leopard beast with one big horn which is interpreted as Alexander the great. I accept the explanation because it fits the history.
    We have the current teaching of the slave feeding domestics. Do I accept this when I read Matt 24:45 - yes or no.  If I accept it and get baptised - why will I start questioning it and its history in the congregation and cause dissent?  If I currently do not agree with my own previous decisions regarding JWs - then i can of free will leave the congregation and find a place where they have all the CORE teachings of the JWs without the teaching of the slave - but  i should not keep rehashing history and become a murmering  voice in the congregation.  This is not obeying scripture which encourages me to grow so I can encourage others.
    Be in the congregation because you want to be there.  Do not sit with one foot in the congregation and the other outside it because you give yourself the right to higher criticism of the past history . 
    If you do not like the present teachings - leave.  We live in a free world.........do not be a hypocrite and be an "indecisive" one........ but frankly - I do not know where you can go to......
    If you stay - then accept the present teachings.  Contribute to the positive aspects of the congregation you are in.  Build up your brothers and sisters and build unity. .... do all the things the scriptures encourages us to do. 
     
     
     
  13. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in If Bethel Was in the East and Not the West   
    It’s true. They do deserve it, though.
    You certainly take enough shots at me
  14. Confused
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Who are now in charge "over all Master's belongings"?   
    Main issue is about present time. I would like if you like to comment this moment first  
    GB as representatives of 144000 are, in this moment, individuals who benefit in using material assets that is in possession of WT Society. Perhaps there is some other members of 144000 who serving in some Bethel facilities and are in position to use  accomodation and some similar benefits of been in some particular service of that kind. 
    Title looking for another perspective. Not about future, because in a future all of them (GB and rest of 144000) should be in Heaven. Of course, as i recall latest idea presented in publication, there is explanation how some or all of them, will survived Armageddon  and stay flesh and blood to teach and guide rest of JW's. In that case your questions are important.
    But, i would like to hear your thoughts about present circumstances when GB declared how they had been appointed (in 1919) only for sharing food. Here is more details what include Jesus' "belongings on Earth". 
     These “belongings” include the growing “great crowd” of “other sheep.” - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20090215/They-Keep-Following-the-Lamb/
     In addition to providing nourishing spiritual food “at the proper time,” “the faithful steward” would be appointed over the entire body of Christ’s attendants and assigned to manage all of Christ’s interests on earth, “all his belongings.” What would this entail?
    8, 9. What “belongings” is the slave appointed to manage?
    8 The slave’s responsibilities include the supervision of the material facilities used by Christ’s followers to carry out their Christian activities, such as the world headquarters and branch offices of Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well as their places of worship—Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls—throughout the world. More important, the slave also oversees spiritually upbuilding programs of Bible study at weekly meetings and periodic assemblies and conventions. At these gatherings, information on the fulfillment of Bible prophecies is dispensed, and timely direction on how to apply Bible principles in daily life is given.
    9 The steward’s responsibilities also include the supervision of the all-important work of preaching “this good news of the kingdom” and making “disciples of people of all the nations.” This involves teaching people to observe all the things that Christ, the Head of the congregation, commands to be done during this time of the end. (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20; Revelation 12:17) The preaching and teaching work has produced “a great crowd” of loyal companions of the anointed remnant. These “desirable things of all the nations” are undoubtedly to be counted among the precious “belongings” of Christ administered by the faithful slave.—Revelation 7:9; Haggai 2:7. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20070401/Loyal-to-Christ-and-His-Faithful-Slave/
    Because GB, after gave this "food in proper time" (is it proper time when they late cca 96 years?) aka information on the fulfillment of Bible prophecies is dispensed, and timely direction on how to apply Bible principles explained in 2015 WT study material, i would like to here what you think:
    1) Did Jesus gave up of His authority and responsibility to take care about His belongings on Earth in 1919? 
    2) If Jesus had choose to take away this privilege of managing His possession by hands of GB in 2015, did he choose someone else on Earth to do this job, and do we know who? Why Jesus decide to do this.... in fact is this His decision or decision made by GB? Is this sort of degradation on behalf of GB? Did Jesus found GB to be negligent in manage?
    3) When Jesus was on Earth he had nothing against Juda to take care about material things aka money. He allowed him to take care. Why GB think this Bible verses to be prophetic and to apply on them, and later changed interpretation of particular  verses? 
    4) Does Jesus managing his Earthly possession by own hands now? How we can "prove" answer?
    ....add your question :))
  15. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in Who are now in charge "over all Master's belongings"?   
    You exaggerate a bit, in implying that the rest of the anointed might get nothing. But this is really the perfect question that shows what's wrong with this theory. Even if you think the Jerusalem Council was a governing body, you can't square this particular outcome of events with the Bible. There are several principles that it goes against.
    (James 2:1-4) . . .My brothers, you are not holding to the faith of our glorious Lord Jesus Christ while showing favoritism, are you? . . .  4 If so, do you not have class distinctions among yourselves, and have you not become judges rendering wicked decisions?
    (Galatians 2:6) . . .But regarding those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me, . . .
    (Matthew 23:6-10) . . .They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues 7 and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men. 8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.
     
  16. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Leander H. McNelly in 1914   
    @Srecko Sostar Fantastic comment. You are very deep thinking. But can you explain the last paragraph please. 
    Indeed the first century Christians, and even the Jews around at that time, were given lots of 'signs' in ways of miracles, curing all sorts of disease, turning water into wine, producing food enough for 10.000 people or more (I think they only counted the men), raising the dead et al.  It was as much seen by the physical eye as it was faith.  But now it seems, no one expects miracles.. No one but me maybe. 
    I loved the bit about Russell having 'faith'. gave him wrong insight and understanding. Other people' faiths, around Russell, also accepted same things that made them to be in wrong expectations too.
    So it is today it seems with the GB and JWs. 
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    @Outta Here   Quote " And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out."
    More GB worshipping at it's best  The blind leading the blind and wow, that is a massive pit they've fallen into. 
  17. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Kosonen in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    Oh dear Mr Harley the story teller thinks he is so funny.  I see you've found a friend so that you can both pat each others back. 
    @TrueTomHarley One does not need to follow JW Org around, it is Earthwide. And one can use the internet to good use to give warnings, with proof of wickedness inside of JW Org.  
    What the true Anointed will NOT do is to put a date on Judgement day. Unlike the Bible Students and JW Org's use of 1914, 1918, 1975, et al. More proof of false teachings and lies from that Org.
    The true Anointed will surely baptise others in the name of Almighty God and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  Not in the name of, or connected to, an Organisation. 
    NWT. Matthew 28 v 19 
    19  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,o baptizing themp in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit
    And actually i think the true anointed will be known well within the next ten years, not at the end of it. And they will of course make known the coming Judgement time, but will not emphasise it as most important. The most important being to help make God's name known and to clear God's name of the mess that the JW Org has made of it. Maybe God's name will not even be Jehovah. There are many other forms of God's name known. 
    A lesson here for you Tom. When you say a person must be a JW to be saved. 
    NWT Mark 9 v 38 through 41. 
    38  John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.”d 39  But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40  For whoever is not against us is for us.e 41  And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ,f I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward.
    Those ones that Jesus spoke of were not Christians following Christ in the true sense.. But they were serving God because what they did was obviously righteous in Jesus' eyes. Jesus did not condemn them did he ? Look at verses 40 & 41.  He will by no means lose his reward.
  18. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Kosonen in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    Quote  @TrueTomHarley  "Either way you cut it, divorce is a traumatic experience. There is the person who realizes the importance of picking up the pieces and moving on.
    There is also the psycho ex-mate who just cannot let go and who pours all his energy into destroying his former marriage mate. This is never thought healthy and sometimes restraining orders must be issued.
    Which ex-mate do you resemble? "
    Then there is the third kind. The kind that will give his time willingly to gives warning to others to keep away, because the ex in a known danger.  
    Because the JW Org is such a dangerous place to be right now, and it deliberately deceives people with lies and threats. 'Only baptised JWs will be saved'  'Armageddon is so very close, it's just around that very close corner'. ' You must be one of us now to be saved'. Whilst hiding paedophiles in it's midst and shunning anyone that might disagree with the GB / Elders et al. So I give the warning but i do not hate anyone.  I cannot understand how you people cannot understand me. You expect me to hate, you may even want me to hate. But i don't hate. Jesus didn't hate, even when he was dying He didn't hate. 
    By the way, divorce isn't so traumatic, it's just a tad inconvenient. Having gone through two it just wastes money and time. Living far away from both of them I never see them and rarely think of them. I have no bad feelings toward them either. We spent time together, they went off with others, so be it.  I hope they both have happy lives now. But you Tom, seem to need to make me out as the 'bad guy'.  
    MR Harley, who are 'these characters' you talk of. 
  19. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Kosonen in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    This is the Dodo calling the world from England  
    @TrueTomHarley Do you ever wonder why people get divorced ? 
    Well one big reason is simply that people change. The person that one marries may be a wonderful, giving, loving, person. But somewhere down the line that person one marries may change. Of course both people will change to some degree. But if the marriage partner turns unpleasant, selfish, dishonest, disloyal, and even cruel, then it is understandable that one may choose to leave and maybe even divorce. 
    So it is with the JW Org. It has changed. Changed so much it is barely recognisable. Changed so many of it's beliefs and doctrines. Changed even those who are supposed to be the F&DS. Changed to become selfish and only concerned about it's own welfare. Suddenly the 'hidden leaders' are paraded in front of the whole world. Those 8 MEN are seen as heroes, those whom call themselves the F&DS. And of course the 'dirty washing' of probably 70 + years, is suddenly revealed, as scripture said it would be. Things done in darkness are brought out into the light... Then of course we have the GB that gives it's blessing to the telling of lies, and they call it 'spiritual warfare'.  So, therefore, anything can be said and done. A scripture, but you know I'm useless at such things,  something about, 'wrong being seen as right, and right being seen as wrong'. So now lies are seen as right before God it seems. Well in the eyes of the GB and Co anyway. 
    So the Jehovah's Witnesses that i joined so long ago was not the JW Org of out present day. Back then it had some element of truth and some meaning and purpose, other than it's own selfishness. But now it is just a shell which has been filled with disgusting things..... Add to this that back then there was NO internet. There was no quick way of researching things. It was not possible to compare information and to decide for one's self what was right or wrong. Only recently has this been possible... So there is your answer Mr Harley. The Org is not what it was, and the information, some of which is freely available on here, was not so available back then. 
     
  20. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Who are now in charge "over all Master's belongings"?   
    I wouldn't think real estate would mean anything as it would have no value in the New World. 
    And money would not mean anything either. 
    Buildings would still exist of course but would be on no financial benefit. No one to sell them to or rent them to. 
    But another question arises. If only those 8 men are the F&DS, and only the F&DS get the reward. Then what happens to the rest of the Anointed Remnant ?  Do they get nothing because they were not loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics ? 
  21. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in If Bethel Was in the East and Not the West   
    Oh, I want to see this! TTH vs. JWI
     
    I know you can't wait to do this
  22. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    I’m not one of them. Nor do I have you in mind with application of that Acts 5 verse. I have other people in mind.
    Since I am also “out there,” even though not paralleling the topics that you take on, I give thought to “let he who is standing beware that he does not fall.” I don’t want to have happen to me what I have seen happen many times to others—brothers become experts in their own eyes and in time leave Jehovah’s organized worship completely, frustrated that it is not “keeping up.” 
    I counter that tendency to become wise in my own eyes by firmly adhering to the traditional door-to-door ministry and making sure activity here is supplemental, not a replacement. My understanding is that you do the same, but I suspect that some others on this forum do not.
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by staying firmly cooperative with existing congregational arrangements, respecting the role and the need of leadership. I gather that you do the same. 
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by always looking for the good in others, such as in Philippians 2:3 mode of considering the other superior—searching out and honing in on the at least one quality, often many, at which the other plainly is superior, then always endeavoring to see him or her primarily through this lens. This I believe you do too. In fact, you are better at it than me.
    I don’t view you as someone who is not obeying. I view you as someone who is bringing your gift to the altar. If you suspended your traditional ministry and began running down the Christian organization, I would reappraise. But you do not that I have seen. I too, try to “bring my gift to the altar,” such as it is, but it does not replace the organized activity that collectively makes the light shine.
  23. Confused
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Who are now in charge "over all Master's belongings"?   
    In view of the foregoing, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment—over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their heavenly reward, becoming corulers with Christ. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20130715/who-is-faithful-discreet-slave/
    “All his belongings” over which the “faithful and discreet slave” class is appointed must refer to all the spiritual things that belong to him on earth in connection with his established heavenly kingdom - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101973027 
     
    1) members ??
    2) real estate and money ??
     
  24. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in FAITH. IN WHOM OR WHAT and When ?   
    @Witness Thank you.    Those events from 1914 onward were, as Jesus put it, “a beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:8)  pr section 7 pp. 25-28 Wt’s Greek Kingdom Interlinear:  “Will rise up nation upon nation and kingdom against kingdom and will be famines and [earth] quakes down on places; all but these (things) beginning of pangs of birth”  Matt 24:8
    1914?  You have had children.  Since when do birth pangs/pains follow birth?  And why would the Watchtower not translate their Bible as their Interlinear reads, as “beginning of pangs of BIRTH” if not to support their lie about 1914?
    New International Version
    All these are the beginning of birth pains.

    New Living Translation
    But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.

    English Standard Version
    All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

    Berean Study Bible
    All these are the beginning of birth pains.

    Berean Literal Bible
    And all these are the beginning of birth pains.

    New American Standard Bible
    "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
    And yes, I dug out and dusted off my copy of The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the GREEK SCRIPTURES. 1985. 
    And sure enough it says " all but these things beginning of pains of birth".
    Surely this is another example of going beyond the things written, especially as the GB state clearly that they are NOT inspired, so they have no excuse for changing the word of GOD. 
  25. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Don't worry about that. As they moved "appointment over all belongings" to the future, they can make same with "appointment for sharing spiritual food" in the future too. It would need some deep thinking how to manage this issue, but "believe me", it is possible. :)) And JW's will not feel the change. 
    JW's not feels any change about "all belongings". The same Society still have all influence over "belongings". And we know what "belongings" includes. JW's aspect still stay the same. Only many of members now have to go to some other congregational meetings because of "merging". Are "mergings" product of new doctrine? Did GB give info on: Who are now in charge "over all belongings"? (good idea for new topic, it is made now) I think that was not explained in WT study articles, not even in a simple edition :)) 
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