Patiently waiting for Truth

DUH !
It is very easy to be able to tell who can fulfill the scripture about being perfect, as your Heavenly Father is perfect ......they do not die.
If you can still require that from ANYONE, 500 years from now, I will consider your points to be valid.
My guess you will be lying on your back, with your arms folded across your chest, and sucking dirt, as will everybody else.alive today.

I'll repeat what I said above.
 There is an in between. There is a 'safe harbour'. Not on the JW ship, but not in that murky water either. 
Um what happened, in your eyes, to the thoughts :-
To 'keep oneself without spot from the world'.   
To, 'first clean the inside of the dish or bowl, then the outside will also be clean'.
And for the true Anointed
English Standard Version
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
And you say :-
The problem is NOT that the "organization is "unclean" ... the problem is that it is plagued by the exact same things that plague ALL organized religion.
But it seems God said IT SHOULD NOT BE. 
 
 

Under the link WT litterature labels the belief that the 'mark of the beast' could be a implanted microchip as a contrieved fanciful interpretation. 
Quote: "Others say that it signifies some form of compulsory identification, such as a tattoo or an implanted microchip with a digital code that identifies the person as a servant of the beast. (..........) These fanciful and contrived interpretations, however, are very different from what the Bible itself says about the mark of the beast, as we shall see in the following article. "
Whose interest does such a statment serve? I am convinced that a compulsory identification with implanted microchips will come and it will track every purchase.
But the initiators of a such system want to keep that secret until the right time and they do naturally not desire that churches would condemn that.

... place  keeper for reply after my nap ..... my eyelids are slamming shut.
 
OK...back.
I was only making the illustration about how things changed from the Kaiser Germany, to the Hitler Germany to give a generic example of how things change in one's surrounding environment over time.  I was NOT alluding to the WTB&TS, Jehovah's Witnesses, or the GB being anything like Nazi Germany, or Hitler.
I am very disappointed in what has happened in the "Truth" over the years, and do not try to defend what should not be defended, but that does not mean I am going to "jump ship".
Years ago there was a TV show called "Slattery's People", about a congressman's adventures and escapades  living and working in the swamp that is Congress, and the opening of each show a deep male voice said "It's not that Democracy is the best system of government, it's that the others are so much worse" ( or something to that effect).  That made a hell of an impression on me, and other than Richard Crenna playing the congresscritter, that's all I remember about it.
That's the attitude I have about Jehovah's Witnesses as practiced as ordered by the WTB&TS.
There is a LOT wrong ... but there is a LOT that is right
And besides, there will be clueless officers and crew on that ship to make you miserable ... but if you "jump ship", you better have a better place to go.
When you look at that "sea of humanity " .... that's only the top.
With all of its fantasys and foibles, being one of Jehovah's Witnesses is the best thing that ever happened to me ...and I appreciate that.
ANY OTHER WAY AND I WOULD BE DEAD OR IN PRISON.
I hope that gives you my perspective.
 
 

Slatterys People Intro.mp4

In all discussions about how inspired of Holy Spirit different ones are, I have not seen the verse (nor have I thought to bring it up myself) Acts 5:32
“And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”
It is simply left out of the equation, and it probably shouldn’t be. “Obey God as ruler” and one may expect a measure of Holy Spirit. Drag one’s feet on obeying him and that will not be so. To my mind, the GB do obey him as ruler—they do their best.

Perhaps GB act is in a manner as playing roulette. Each time they are sure how this time they will win. 
With other people's money. With other people's faith and hope.

Hi
@4Jah2me 
You are really into something. I have seen scriptures that can been undertood in a way that support your conclusions. Especially that the current WT organization will not be in charge the final approximately 3 and half years. Instead it will be other anointed who have now no say that will be the source of spiritual food.

1 Cor 2:12-14

One more thing.  I thoroughly worship YHWH, much easier than under the thumb of false teachings and men who spread them.  

This is all I will comment on.  Human intelligence, which can include “the wisdom of the world” does not bring us to the Kingdom; and we can’t say the GB are moved spiritually, because they have admitted they are not. 1 Cor 2:12-14   MOSES had direct contact with God. Num 12:6-8 How can you even GO THERE and make the comparison of eight blundering men covering over their mistakes by blaming them on Christ…to MOSES? Josh 1:7 Just to do so, shows you have replaced Christ, whom Moses spoke of his coming, and that we should listen to …with a “body of men” - lacking Holy Spirit - to lead you.   
If the organization is "led by a body of men" who are " much more intelligent than being led by one man,” why isn’t there a prophesy in the Bible, directing one to your leaders?
Please read:
 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. 16 This is what you requested from the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, ‘Let us not continue to hear the voice of the Lord our God or see this great fire any longer, so that we will not die!’ 17 Then the Lord said to me, ‘They have spoken well. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 
19 I will hold accountable whoever does not listen to My words that he speaks in My name.
 20 But the prophet who dares to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods—that prophet must die.’
 21 You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a message the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the Lord’s name, and the message does not come true or is not fulfilled, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.  Deut 18:15-22
Do you understand what this is saying? Your leaders will be held accountable for every failed, wrong teaching they have taught as “truth”.  Every one of them; such as all the dates for Armageddon, “this generation” and its changes, 1914 and 1975.  Check the misnomer, “Beliefs Clarified”.  Jer 23:16
And there are many you still believe are “truth” when indeed, they are lies.
As someone said in a video about religion, “God the Creator equals truth, and the truth is always true. You don’t get to pick and choose truth.“
 
 

Jehovah's Witnesses HONOR Jesus Christ more than any other religion!
Their IMITATION of his principles and their preaching the Kingdom message is the HIGHEST FORM of HONOR.
WE Come to Jesus in searching his ways out and the truths he taught more than any other religion.
We do not pray to him, rather we pray to God in the merit of Jesus name and the life atoning blood he gave.
We Understand that Jehovah is the Father, the Creator of every son / spirit / life.
This is why Jesus prayed to his Father and God.
See Revelation 4:11. Every angel in Heaven honors this fact.
Your worries about the GB and the WT do not lessen your obligation to worship Jehovah.
Moses made some mistakes, that did not give the entire assembly the right to complain about the way God was directing them. Accepting the Headship arrangement is what Jesus taught, when he said he did not have the authority to appoint who would sits at his left or right as kings of God's Kingdom.
For the next 1000 years, after Armageddon, the headship will most likely be:
In Heaven:
Jehovah
Jesus
the 144,000
ON EARTH:
a governing body
the congregation 
the other sheep 
 
 
 
Witnesses do not preach the organization you are consumed with. They preach the Good News of God's Kingdom as God's Slaves. They follow the teaching of Christ who appointed 12 Apostles over his congregations.Were the disciples then slaves of the Apostles?
The organization led by a "body of men" is much more intelligent than being led by one man, Moses' father-in-law helped Moses to understand this.
Matthew 18:20 testifies to the wisdom of many praying together.
1 Cor.14:33 For God is a God not of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the holy ones, 
ORDER brings PEACE which brings praise to God and enables the free flow of God's Spirit.
 

That probably works especially well for a mummified pecan pie..
... that was, by the way, an example of dry humor.
( Merriam-Webster: Definition of dessert. 1 : a usually sweet course or dish (as of pastry or ice cream) usually served at the end of a meal.)
 
We have two security guards at our Kingdom Hall ....one sits in a chair at the entrance to our large glass front door, and one sits in a chair at the opening to the main auditorium.
I refer to them as "Sheep victim No. 1", and "Sheep Victim No. 2".
And speaking of something that is NOT an example of pansy festooned  sheepness .... this report from near Fort Worth, Texas, about eight hours ago:
-   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -  
Dateline Sunday, December 29, 2019
Texas church shooting: Gunman kills 2, 'heroic' parishioners take down shooter
By Travis Fedschun, Bradford Betz | Fox News
Police: At least two dead, one critically injured in Texas church shooting
Christina Coleman has the latest update on the deadly shooting at a Fort Worth church.
A gunman opened fire in a Texas church on Sunday, killing two people and injuring others before two "heroic" parishioners shot and killed him at the scene, police said.
The shooting unfolded around 10 a.m. at the West Freeway Church of Christ, in the city of White Settlement, just outside Fort Worth, police said.
"It's all very tragic," Fort Worth Fire Department spokesman Mike Drivdahl told reporters.
An FBI agent standing outside West Freeway Church of Christ after the shooting Sunday in White Settlement, Texas.
White Settlement Police Chief J.P. Bevering told reporters Sunday afternoon that the gunman entered the church and sat down with the parishioners. He then got up, pulled out a shotgun, and shot two parishioners who died at a nearby hospital.
Two armed parishioners who were volunteer security guards returned fire and killed the gunman.
"The suspect was stopped thanks to the quick and heroic actions of those safety members inside the church," Bevering said.
Separately, two people who suffered minor injuries were treated and released at the scene.
During a news conference later Sunday, Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick lauded the quick reactions of the church’s "well-trained" security team, calling their heroism "unparalleled."
He said, "This team responded quickly and within six seconds, the shooting was over."
He noted that the security team's quick response saved an "untold number of lives."
A large emergency response after a reported shooting at a church in White Settlement, Texas. (KTVT via NNS)
The victims ranged in age from 30 to 60 years old, according to MedStar, the ambulance service provider to Fort Worth and other cities in North Texas.
A witness to the shooting told KTVT the gunman walked up to a server with a shotgun during communion and opened fire before parishioners inside the church took him down.
Two people were killed in the shooting, first responders said. (KDFW)
“It was the most scariest thing. You feel like your life is flashing before you," Isabel Arreola told the television station. "I was so worried about my little one."
The church was apparently live streaming the service when the shooting took place, Fox 4 reported.
"Unfortunately, this country has seen so many of these that we've actually gotten used to it at this point. And it's tragic and it's a terrible situation, especially during the holiday season," Jeoff Williams, a regional director with the Texas Department of Public Safety, said at the news conference. "I would like to point out that we have a couple of heroic parishioners who stopped short of just anything that you can even imagine, saved countless lives, and our hearts are going out to them and their families as well."
The shooting happened Sunday morning at the West Freeway Church of Christ, which is located in the city of White Settlement, Texas. (Fox News)
Images from the scene showed a massive emergency response. Texas Gov. Gregg Abbott called the shooting an "evil act of violence" at the church.
"Places of worship are meant to be sacred, and I am grateful for the church members who acted quickly to take down the shooter and help prevent further loss of life," the governor said in a statement. "Cecilia and I ask all Texans to join us in praying for the White Settlement community and for all those affected by this horrible tragedy."
Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton tweeted about the shooting, asking for prayers for "any victims and their families, this congregation, and the law enforcement officials at the scene."
Agents from the Dallas Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives said they were responding to the scene of the reported shooting.
Local and federal law enforcement agencies were continuing to investigate the shooter's identity and motivation for the shooting. The identities of the deceased were not released.
White Settlement is located about eight miles west of Fort Worth.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
 

Then I'll read it tomorrow if I'm on here.  

Possibly the majority of PIMO/POMO etc are left out of the chart. Many ex and non-JWs surely believe that Jehovah exists. Probably the better question is not "Do you believe in Jehovah?" but "Do you believe the Watchtower's Governing Body was appointed as The Faithful and Discreet Slave in 1919?"

I believe how some sort of quotas and normative about hours still exists. Average system. 15 minutes of preaching for old people, active, inactive, (3 or) 6 month periods ...etc.
GB and Helpers speaking about "theocratic carrier" as opposite to "university education" that only worth for "worldly carrier" and "own pleasures" and " self-fulfillment that not helps other people" - and that is very, very wrong as they explained. Because after Armageddon, we will not need doctors and  lawyers. Now, this moment, as Morris III says, we need many skillful workers, plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters .... This means, tomorrow (and partially they are today)  all this hand skills will be over brain skills, because building program will be of main concern after Armageddon.
Perhaps, @Anna ,  teachings and instructions, as mentioned above, are "fraudulent". Does this makes Organization or some people in it "fraudulent" is on observer to say.
With this in mind we can also comment 1914 and all knowledge, teachings, instructions, beliefs and hopes around that period of time. 

I'll make sure they come up.
That comes across as too cynical. If there is an appointment of a special class to "feed his little sheep" why could it not just "pop up" inspirationally at any time or place that the need is great enough. (Times and places where the harvest is great but the workers are few.) Why can't all persons in history who would volunteer for such a ministry be considered as candidates in all Christian-like religions, and then the one group of teaching volunteers that appears to have the most truth be the one that lovers of truth associate with? Pre-2011, this was basically our doctrine. That wheat and weeds grew alongside each other through all the centuries from the first on down until today. Various teachers who taught a larger than usual measure of truth like Wycliffe, Tyndale, Waldenses, Arius, etc., were considered to be 'faithful and wise servants' who helped to coalesce a "wheat" class and keep it distinguished from a "weed" class. We should expect that there would have been many candidates vying to teach truth, and from the perspective of those who would be seeking out truth, they would grow as wheat.
Another perspective is that it is always correct to say it is just around the corner, because it is. It is always as close as our own lifespan. We are, in effect "harvested" as wheat or weeds at the end of our life, or at the 'harvest of the world' which happens at Christ's parousia. 1914 could be dead wrong, and the end could come tonight. But our entire life is an opportunity to continually keep our motivations in check, so that we are moved to do good for our brothers and sisters and neighbors and enemies, out of a love for God and fellow man. If we find ourselves motivated by following a group of men, or peer pressure, or to be seen by men, then we are not motivated out of a pure heart.
(1 Timothy 1:5) . . .Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy.
But there is a difference in being motivated by a date, and being motivated by the fact that we think the end is so close because, for example, we know that the "generation" might be up in the very near future. There is nothing wrong with being motivated in part because we believe the end of all things is upon us. That would make us want to be ready at any time, every day. This is not the same thing as being (wrongly) motivated because we believe the "end," for example, going to occur within a few months of 2034, or within weeks of a declaration of "Peace and Security" or a "Hailstone message" or when we see that they finally have to put a member of the great crowd in the GB. These latter motivations are the same thing as saying "my master is delaying" and that is dangerous because it becomes a partial motivation for our actions. We will have the feeling that we need not "shape up" 100 percent, until we can see those future expectations begin to occur more clearly.
I think the proper motivation that can come out of a belief that the end can occur at any time, and that it might be very close, is probably what TTH is referring to with the carrot and stick proposition. Not that it is just meant as a tease to get more work out of us.
I believe that you have described what Jesus must have meant when he spoke of the truth as not being burdensome.
(Matthew 11:28-30) 28 Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for yourselves. 30 For my yoke is kindly, and my load is light.”
A constant "carrot and stick" with specific goal posts that are moved over and over again becomes a burden. We can never do enough, and we are then serving for specific measurable works.
The old days (1940's-1960's) had a "Circuit Servant" setting quotas for the congregation and then chiding the congregation for not meeting them. This was a sad state of affairs (that seems to have been directly copied from sales meetings for door-to-door merchandise peddlers and other types of salesmen). My uncle who was a Circuit Servant/Overseer was trained by the District Servant to find things the congregation can meet and find things the congregagion probably can't meet, with the overall goal of having the congregation "pushed" to help reach the national quotas found in the "Informant"/"Kingdom Ministry." This way there would be some items to commend, but there would always be the need to work harder. There wasn't that much of a carrot, except in the idea that the works were considered proof of righteousness. I think it was about once a month that the Congregation Servant pulled the huge number chart out from behind the curtain at the Service Meeting to go over how well we were meeting our quotas.

I agree with the credibility bit, however I do not think that ensuring contributions are the prime reason for keeping that credibility. I really believe it is a matter of pride, and the fear of what could happen to the faith of many people as a result of admitting that 1914 could be a mistake. If we were to think that the only reason is money, then this would be a fraudulent organization, which I don't think it is, and I dont think you do either.

To the best of my knowledge and belief (please correct me if I am wrong ...) the WTB&TS has made hundreds of "mistakes", from "devil pus vaccinations", to continuously hyping Armageddon as "next week" .. and they have NEVER apologized for ANYTHING ...... EVER.
Of course, it's hard to be humble, when you are perfect in every way, and your credibility and contributed donations, which must be like showering under a waterfall (which I once did, in the Grand Canyon, many years ago ...) depend on the publishers having and keeping that impression.
 

Who does this description fit? 
A carrot dangler is someone who promises something—and never comes through. When you try to collect on the promise, there is always some reason why they can't give it to you right then, though they tell you they will do it another time. But when "another time" comes along, that isn't a good time either, and so it goes, until you give up on that carrot, and then they start to dangle another carrot. 
Most of the time, whoever does this, wants something from you, but never gives anything back. However, in this case, (1914) I am thinking the person or persons just doesn't want to lose face...

Did you forget to take your JWI pills today?  
It did. It ended in 1919. But the time of trouble it ushered in has not ended—the last days of Matt 24:7 start off with a bang if we are to connect the two events—the first time that the entire world is concurrently at war. Some time ago I wrote a post about how one might collect “turning point 1914” quotes, just as some collect stamps or coins. There are a lot of them.
I’m close to doubling down on that comment I once made previously about Jehovah leading his people carrot and stick with the end always seen as immanent. One thing that influences me in doing this is seeing how optimistic ex-JWs are about humankind’s future, far in excess of the the average person’s optimism. For most of the latter, reading the Drudge Report is like reading the Book of Revelation. Not so with many apostates—they see nothing but blue skies ahead.
Make him say “Shibboleth”

When you selectively edit to change the meaning of reference material, you may qualify to get a job with the FBI to create dishonest FISA Court warrant applications.
Swords and bats can be very effective at arm's length.
But then again, both perspectives are only general rules, and can be disproved by any one example, in a specific instance, depending on divine providence, and pure dumb luck.
I was basically trying to show WHY the scriptures quoted above about having a hard forehead made instant sense to a person that understands the context of the times, which quite often survival depended on being GOOD at hand-to-hand combat, and today most people would not understand what the Bible writers were talking about.
 
 

Everybody today are pansy studded sheep, at least among our contemporaries ... but back then, it was common knowledge that if you were in hand-to hand combat with another person for your life, that the forehead is the hardest bone on your body, and you do not stand off and do fisticuffs.  You get in close, and you get in fast, and you have daggers in your hands, and you fight with your weight, smashing their face with your forehead. Do it hard enough and you can smash the nose through the bottom of the skull, into the brain, and hopefully blind your adversary with his own blood.  ALSO, you fight with your elbows, being MUCH harder , and harder to damage than your fist and fingers. For massive blows, fingers often break before the other guys jaw, but an elbow is stronger than a jaw.
Also, an edged weapon, such as a sword, or a cudgel, such as a bat, is ineffective at contact distances ... but if you are fighting with your forehead, elbows and two daggers,  you want the combatant's blows to hit your arm at a glancing angle, not at 90 degrees, where either a bat or sword can sever your arm off, more readily.
The rest depends on divine providence, and pure dumb luck.
Now... go out and have a nice day !
.... and be sure to floss regularly.
 

You are right. 
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  1 Cor 2:14-14
  For it is written:
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and I will set aside the understanding of the experts.
20 Where is the philosopher? Where is the scholar? Where is the debater of this age? Hasn’t God made the world’s wisdom foolish? 21 For since, in God’s wisdom, the world did not know God through wisdom, God was pleased to save those who believe through the foolishness of the message preached. For the Jews ask for signs and the Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Gentiles. 24 Yet to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is God’s power and God’s wisdom, 25 because God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength. 1 Cor 1:19-25
The Lord said:
Because these people approach Me with their mouths
to honor Me with lip-service —
yet their hearts are far from Me,
and their worship consists of man-made rules
learned by rote—
 therefore I will again confound these people
with wonder after wonder.
The wisdom of their wise men will vanish,
and the understanding of the perceptive will be hidden.
15 Woe to those who go to great lengths
to hide their plans from the Lord.
They do their works in darkness,
and say, “Who sees us? Who knows us?”
You have turned things around,
as if the potter were the same as the clay.
How can what is made say about its maker,
“He didn’t make me”?
How can what is formed
say about the one who formed it,
“He doesn’t understand what he’s doing”?  Isa 29:13-16
Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven. He answered them: “When evening comes you say, ‘It will be good weather because the sky is red.’ 3 And in the morning, ‘Today will be stormy because the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to read the appearance of the sky, but you can’t read the signs of the times. Matt 16:1-3
 
 

In fact, after checking to see if the malcontents were misbehaving here (they were) I did indeed have a share in the ministry. Did you? 
Yes, you may say that I did the ministry not of Christ, but of JW.org. Nevertheless I read scripture to a number of people and discussed it with them, and offered to do the same with several more. Did you? Did you this week? Did you this month? Have you done that even one day since leaving the organization of JW?
I would not ask Srecko this because he does not think it worthwhile to preach a kingdom message, speak of God, or tell of his purposes. But you do—or at least you have said that that you do. Jesus says it is important to preach the good news of the kingdom. Do you do it? If you want to do it on your own completely divorced from the JW organization, that’s fine by me, but do you do it?
Will that be a ten-year lunch?
Do I have this straight? I look at the JW organization and say, “Nah—they’re far from perfect, but I appreciate what they do to facilitate the spread of the good news.” I cooperate with them and thus I have a share in fulfilling Christ’s command. You, on the other hand, have found them not pure enough, and so you do nothing. 
Are you not on strike against God? Are you not laying down the law with Him that He had better get His Act together and produce a true anointed good enough for you, and should he do that—THEN you will preach the good news, but NOT NOW.
—even though it is crystal clear that people need the encourage from his word NOW and the promise of something better.
How can you be so self-centered?

No thanks one suffering was enough