Patiently waiting for Truth

And who would you identify as being that group of people? Are there just two or three? Or two hundred and three? Two thousand or three? Who are they? After all, everyone claims to be part of Jesus' flock but Jesus clearly indicated that most who claim to serve him would not actually be approved. And how can you expect to "gather together in my name" with them if you don't even know who they are?
Not really. With all due respect, I'm still waiting for you to answer my simple question whether many words or few. Take as long as you like. (Well, less than "10 years" anyway, cause you know what happens then...;)
Oh, and while we are on the subject, do you also believe that the true anointed will be manifest within 10 years and make the date of the judgment known? And if not, why not? Please back up your answer with scriptural references - especially about the 10 years... 

Maybe. You have hundreds of pals here. Why can’t I have a few chums?
This is exactly what you do to these malcontents.
Yeah!
Can you wait ten years? 4Jah says it may even be ready before then. Nothing but squat right now, though.
I know from my Bible study that murder is wrong. However, guns were not invented at the time of writing. It is probably okay, then, so long as you use a gun.
 

???
No. But that has already been dealt with. No point in rehashing old ground with people who don't want to listen.
We don't have any clear examples of how you shouldn't drive a car recklessly over the speed limit either, do we? But we do, as has already been stated, have laws, principles... But you already know that, right?
Let's turn that around for a change and give you a chance to explain which flock and congregation YOU think Jesus is head over and how he directs said individuals. It's not enough to snipe from the sidelines. If you've got something better to direct people to, let's have at it. And if the best you can come up with is an anarchy of individual perceptions, let me know so I can start laughing now. 

Oh dear Mr Harley the story teller thinks he is so funny.  I see you've found a friend so that you can both pat each others back. 
@TrueTomHarley One does not need to follow JW Org around, it is Earthwide. And one can use the internet to good use to give warnings, with proof of wickedness inside of JW Org.  
What the true Anointed will NOT do is to put a date on Judgement day. Unlike the Bible Students and JW Org's use of 1914, 1918, 1975, et al. More proof of false teachings and lies from that Org.
The true Anointed will surely baptise others in the name of Almighty God and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  Not in the name of, or connected to, an Organisation. 
NWT. Matthew 28 v 19 
19  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,o baptizing themp in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit
And actually i think the true anointed will be known well within the next ten years, not at the end of it. And they will of course make known the coming Judgement time, but will not emphasise it as most important. The most important being to help make God's name known and to clear God's name of the mess that the JW Org has made of it. Maybe God's name will not even be Jehovah. There are many other forms of God's name known. 
A lesson here for you Tom. When you say a person must be a JW to be saved. 
NWT Mark 9 v 38 through 41. 
38  John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.”d 39  But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40  For whoever is not against us is for us.e 41  And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ,f I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward.
Those ones that Jesus spoke of were not Christians following Christ in the true sense.. But they were serving God because what they did was obviously righteous in Jesus' eyes. Jesus did not condemn them did he ? Look at verses 40 & 41.  He will by no means lose his reward.

Contradiction of yourself, as you did reply  .  I think possibly he means the Watchtower and JW Org as being false gods. 

Pretty good answer yourself.
When the new & reformed & true anointed manifests itself in just ten years, as you have said will happen, will it also state that Armageddon is close? Or will it say not to worry about it—it is far off?
Will it also say that one must be in association with it? Or will it say that any ol person believing any ol thing can be saved so long as he/she is sincere?
Follow your ex around so as to warn others to stay away? In the actual world, this is called stalking and it can land you in jail. Police will question your motives and sanity before they question hers.

1) The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction.
2)  If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way."
Deceiving and in manipulate form. In first sentence writer showing idea how Jesus will fix all things and give justice and proper help to people who are hurt by elders. In second sentence comes new message: Do not have hope how Jesus will do it because of you (or in your lifetime). You are not of His primary interest, you are just sheep. Bigger picture is more important than you as individuum. 
The idea of "spirit guided organization" is also a trick??
We don't have any clear Bible example from 1 century or earlier how elders today should or need to handle CSA. Perhaps we can find some other modern problem too,that is not pictured in Bible.
In spirit of this words i would give serious question about JW doctrine how elders are appointed by holy spirit. Here you said how elders are people who need to be in spirit and recommendations and guidelines of laws, principles and boundaries. Again, very stretchy and with strong human influence on things. It seems to me, how JW members have to decide in own mind, do they want to continue with idea of God's appointments or human appointments of  church servants.
We misunderstand each other. I gave point on subject; Do Jesus have interest to be First and Last in decisions that are about His Flock and Congregation,  or He leave that to elders. In fact i ask, WHO RUN church? Jesus or WT Society with elders?  
You gave answer down:
"snow globe" in general beliefs of JW's

Well sir, you have just condemned millions of your past brethren.  It is confusing, isn’t it.  It can cause us to see red.  Satan easily takes truth and spins it into a lie, just as easily as he takes a lie and builds on it; giving it many different faces. 
“No one that I knew about even questioned the appointment of Brother Knorr,” says C. W. Barber, “and everyone was determined to stand shoulder to shoulder supporting him and proving our devotion to Jehovah’s organization."  yb75 pp. 183-256
This is one reason why I left the organization.  I had fallen into idolatry.  I now give exclusive devotion to the Father in heaven and not to an earthly organization. Isaiah 46:5  I do not attach any earthly entity to my God. I do not bow down to men and their false doctrine. I obey the teachings of, and am devoted to, my King, Jesus Christ who is the "husband" of his Bride.  2 Cor 11:2; Rev 19:16; Rev 22:17

The problem with suggesting that the "elders are under Jesus' full control, power and direction," is that people can get a skewed idea. Imperfect, uninspired men can become "masters of our faith" rather than "good-for-nothing slaves that are doing what they should." Of course, we respect the "arrangement" God has in place for pure worship and give "double honour" to those taking the lead. But that is a far cry from handing all of our personal thinking, choices and decisions over to imperfect men, thinking they are "fully controlled" by Jesus and anything but is being disobedient to him. Jesus and Jehovah have provided direction in his Word as guidelines for how the congregation should be run. But sometimes men in authority go "beyond what is written" and we should use our "clear thinking faculties" to be able to discern the difference. The fact is, that if one is too lazy to study and read God's Word or are gullible, you can start acting like you are in a cult - even when you are not. Child molesters (yes some have been "elders") get away with their actions for decades - not because Jesus is controlling them to do that, but because children are confused or awed by the authority they have. Even otherwise, at times, men in authority in the organization have assumed too much authority and used that authority in a way they are not authorized scripturally to do. People need to know the difference. "Whole-souled devotion" to Jehovah does not mean whole-souled devotion to imperfect men - even when we respect what authority they have as part of Jehovah's arrangement and offer scriptural obedience. Why? One reason is that some of these men are not who they appear to be (whether they be "wolves in sheep's clothing," "wicked men and imposters," "rocks hidden below the surface..." There is no level of authority within the organization where such men have not been found.) Should we be obedient to them? We need to know the difference when such men (i.e.. apostates or immoral men) direct things not in harmony with Jesus' direction as recorded in the Bible. Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before. No, the reality is that we still have to use our brains. 

Pretty good answer

The word "control" comes up because of what was stated in the workbook for the week of November 18-24: "In Jesus' right hand: The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction. If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way." One of the WT references for Rev. 1:20 in the Study Bible adds: "the 'stars' are in Jesus' right hand - within his power, control, favour, and protection. Therefore they are "accountable" to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations."
So, if Jesus controls all the elders like some sort of spiritual remote control by means of holy spirit, (as some may think), then everything that takes place within the organization should be perfect, because Jesus is perfect and would use holy spirit in a perfect way. Why is that of interest? Because too many things happen within the organization (even the early Christian congregation), that are clearly not "controlled" by Jesus - unless he is deliberately controlling them to do bad things. I won't get into detail, but things happen that shouldn't happen and even very unscriptural things happen. My description of the factors that come into play regarding that interplay, attempted to explain the discrepancies that clearly exist if you are not living in a "snow globe." I had mentioned 1 Tim. 5:24 because it plays an important role in helping to understand why bad things can go on within the congregation for decades. All one has to do is look at the way that scripture is true historically to get a better understanding of how it applies today. The fact that elders have a measure of autonomy is hinted at by the phrase: "By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations." So elders make their decision based on "heeding his words" which are contained where? In the Bible - and so are accountable to Jesus as to how they use the authority he gives them. They aren't mindless robots on remote control that can never make mistakes (I know that is an extreme description, but the fact is, that some - too many - people have a mindset that is very close to that. 
To illustrate the difference, consider how Jehovah and Jesus deal with humans. When Jehovah directed Adam to name the animals, he gave him the authority to name them and Adam used his personal discretion as to what to call them. Of course, there would be limits or boundaries to the authority granted Adam (for instance he wouldn't be allowed to call every animal "Jehovah" - right?) But Jehovah didn't control his freedom of choice - even when Adam decided to be disobedient. Or to illustrate further: CONTROL: mom tells Junior to buy everything on a predetermined shopping list. One pound of this, 5 ounces of that...only get the potatoes on sale, bring back a receipt and the change, be back in an hour. AUTONOMOUS AUTHORITY: mom tells junior to buy what he would like for supper and she will make it. (Boundary): Just make it healthy and include the main food groups. 
So Jesus and Jehovah give us laws, principles and boundaries. But they don't remote control our/elders' decisions by means of holy spirit. And as stated earlier, holy spirit can at times be hard to quantify. It played a strong influence in the anointing process, but there were still things early Christians - even miraculously inspired Christians - didn't understand, disagreed with each other about and got wrong. Nothing has changed that way. Not everything Bible writers wrote was included in the Bible canon either. In fact, one of the "gifts" described at 1 Corinthians 1:10, is the ability to miraculously "discern inspired expressions." As the Study Bible comments: "Christians also needed guidance to discern which letters and writings should be circulated among the congregations and to discern which would become part of the Bible canon."
As for your statement: "If Jesus doesn't want to control human behaviour and decisions...why do you think elders have that right?" Answer: They don't have that right. Elders don't have the right to make people's decisions for them. Their role is to encourage people to make decisions that are in harmony with what is directed in God's Word. And to keep the congregation without spot and blemish - even if that means disfellowshipping unrepentant individuals. If Jehovah and Jesus never took away freedom of choice from even Satan and Adam, what makes you think he would direct elders to do that?  Jehovah wants people to serve him willingly out of love. Not because they are remote-controlled robots. However, his servants were always warned that with freedom of choice, comes responsibility and accountability. The "blessing or the malediction."

The classic example of this is the movie "The Sound of Music".
Eric Von Trapp willingly served Germany during World War II as a submarine captain, but when the Nazis came along Germany was no longer Germany, and he and his family (Julie Andrews included) did their best to escape to Switzerland. He was a loyal, patriotic Austrian/German ... but he had not forsaken Germany ... Germany had forsaken him.
( The Society had the blood issue correct the first time ... then changed it to stop being being sued and lose money. etc.)
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Theology is now being decided on the basis of economics.
I can still see Julie Andrews running up that 25 degree slope Swiss mountain with a suitcase and a guitar, and swinging them around as she sang "The hills are alive .... with the sound of  .... muuuuuusiccc ...", as the camera zoomed in.
I remember thinking if I did that, I would have a heart attack, and die right there.

Since there is no Switzerland for us ... I guess we will just have to endure.
 
 

excellent  movie

This is the Dodo calling the world from England  
@TrueTomHarley Do you ever wonder why people get divorced ? 
Well one big reason is simply that people change. The person that one marries may be a wonderful, giving, loving, person. But somewhere down the line that person one marries may change. Of course both people will change to some degree. But if the marriage partner turns unpleasant, selfish, dishonest, disloyal, and even cruel, then it is understandable that one may choose to leave and maybe even divorce. 
So it is with the JW Org. It has changed. Changed so much it is barely recognisable. Changed so many of it's beliefs and doctrines. Changed even those who are supposed to be the F&DS. Changed to become selfish and only concerned about it's own welfare. Suddenly the 'hidden leaders' are paraded in front of the whole world. Those 8 MEN are seen as heroes, those whom call themselves the F&DS. And of course the 'dirty washing' of probably 70 + years, is suddenly revealed, as scripture said it would be. Things done in darkness are brought out into the light... Then of course we have the GB that gives it's blessing to the telling of lies, and they call it 'spiritual warfare'.  So, therefore, anything can be said and done. A scripture, but you know I'm useless at such things,  something about, 'wrong being seen as right, and right being seen as wrong'. So now lies are seen as right before God it seems. Well in the eyes of the GB and Co anyway. 
So the Jehovah's Witnesses that i joined so long ago was not the JW Org of out present day. Back then it had some element of truth and some meaning and purpose, other than it's own selfishness. But now it is just a shell which has been filled with disgusting things..... Add to this that back then there was NO internet. There was no quick way of researching things. It was not possible to compare information and to decide for one's self what was right or wrong. Only recently has this been possible... So there is your answer Mr Harley. The Org is not what it was, and the information, some of which is freely available on here, was not so available back then. 
 

I agree with you totally on this. That Almighty God is vindicated and His name (whatever it may be) is made clean. Those are the important issues. And that those in the heavens as well of those here on Earth have been given an answer once and for all times. We should all know that it is not about us. We are as dust. So indeed as you say 'God has bigger fish to fry'. 

Quote @TrueTomHarley  His opinion?!!
Can you imagine how @James Thomas Rook Jr., not to mention yourself, would have blown a gasket back then?
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Ah but there is the difference. To ADMIT it is one's own opinion. BUT the GB pretend they are the F&DS and in so doing they pretend to be giving God's words or Christ's instructions to the congregation. 
Do the Watchtower writers / GB ever say 'This is only our opinion' ?  Do they ever say 'This message is not from God or Christ, it is just from us'
No i don't think so. The GB say ' Jehovah and Jesus Christ trusts us, so the congregation should trust us' 
 
Quote @TrueTomHarley "I put stock in passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16....All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness," 
But that scripture must have been referring to the Hebrew writings as the Greek writings hadn't been completed or gathered at that time. As you yourself said those 'chosen ones' didn't know their words were to be included in the later books of a collection of writings we call the Bible or Holy Scriptures. 
I love the way you have to make fun of people that prove you and your Org wrong on so many counts. It shows the hurt that you and others feel. The bruising of your heart when some of us make valid points. True I do tend to generalise a bit. And true, many 'boots on the ground' JWs / basic congregants, can be 'nice people' sometimes. But I just feel sorry for those ones, they have stopped using their own minds and hearts, and have knuckled under to carry the heavy loads put on them by the GB and Elders and all those in between. Maybe i should change my user name to dodo  ....  It's raining again here. I hope the weather is better where ever you are. 
 

Come come. Don’t be unkind. It was just a throwaway line at the beginning. I went on to devote several paragraphs to the points you raised.
I’m human, too, you know. And he is a dodo. He (unlike you) cannot find a single charitable thing to say about his former faith or those within it. In light of this, the question that begs to be answered is: How could he possibly have been so stupid to have joined it at all, given that he now insists it is wrong (and wicked!) in every particular?
BTW, this is where the ‘victim of a cult” defense comes from.. People brilliant in their own eyes cannot admit that they made a colossal mistake, so they pass it off as a sinister cult that “brainwashed” them—something that can happen to the most intelligent of persons (such as themselves).
To his credit, 4Jah2Me does not do this. Though he may have other faults, he is not high in his own eyes.

Could be worse ... the Dinosaurs lost all of their WD-40.

STOP SAYING THINGS LIKE THIS!!!
I make up my mind to take you out as with a bazooka and then I read a remark like this and lose every bit of steam.

TTH:
That's the way I look at it ... I am happy to be alive now, in this time... and in this place ... and with my wonderful wife, dogs and chickens, who somehow we all eat regular, and have superb medical care ... and if Jehovah remembers me, all the better.
If he does not, well, I have had a good run, and somehow survived with my hand on the doorknob to death's door more than a hundred times, and am somehow still here, and I know that people much better than me in every way have lived short lives of hardship and calamity, and are gone forever.
I pray for God's Kingdom to come, even if I don't make it.
But then again ... I have always considered myself expendable.
The PURPOSE of the Universe, is women and children.
The REASON we exist at all is our entertainment value to Jehovah God.
..... and that experiment with the Dinosaurs just wasn't working out, so God dropped a big rock on them.

The point is that our personal salvation is not the central issue before all creation. It is a relative detail. God has bigger fish to fry and we do not imagine that it is all a about us. This is not the case with some faiths, at least, judging from the preponderance of their writings.

Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.
This is true and any one with a sensible thinking mind and a spiritual thinking heart will know what lies and misuse of scripture the GB / JW Org and Bible Students / Watchtower society et al, have used to misguide people over the many years. 
And anyone that investigates the JW Org to find out its 'rules' will see that the GB / JW Org live by and enforce rules made by men, not by God. 
The scripture you quoted 
John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” 
If only the GB and its Org would live by that scripture, then it would all be so different to what it is now.  Even the GB's lawyers tell lies in court. Elders tell lies to cover up sins of elders and others.  And it seems that the GB give permission for all this. They call it 'spiritual warfare'. 
This bit is so funny too :-
Quote : "The Catholic Church withheld the Bible and the precious truth Jesus leads people to "
OK, JWs are allowed to have Bibles and are encouraged to read them, BUT, JWs are then told to believe only the things that the GB teach. So you can read you Bible but don't you dare to form your own conclusions about any scriptures. For if your idea conflicts with GB teachings you are in big trouble, well if you just happen to mention it to anyone else that is. 
And this :- 
Quote "The clergy elevate themselves over the common parishioners as the Jewish priesthood did, "
Well well, the GB elevate themselves above the Anointed as well as the earthly class. 
Please remember there was a time when ALL ANOINTED HERE ON EARTH WERE CLASSED AS THE 'FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE CLASS'. 
BUT now the GB say ONLY THEY, THOSE 8 MEN, are the F&DS. Now that is definitely exalting themselves..  And we know what the scripture says about those that exalt themselves don't we ? 
Another quote :-
Exodus 20: You must not have any other gods besides me. 4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth.
Watchtower says " Only baptised Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved".  Giving salvation to an Organisation is false worship, idol worship in fact. 
 
 

I was very taken with one article long ago (and I wrote a post on it) that ‘we are not so presumptuous so as to think that our personal salvation is the central issue of the universe’—this after pondering the vast outstretches of space. Much of Christendom, especially the evangelical variety, does think this way.
But of course your GB /Org do believe that ONLY BAPTISED JWs WILL GAIN SALVATION'. 
 

I never knew that the paragraph you just quoted was EVER in the Watchtower, but I do know, and entirely from memory, that it came out in the book "Things in Which It Is Impossible For God To Lie", on page 384, paragraph 24.   I used to know entirely from memory when that same paragraph, verbatim, ( slightly different from the one you quoted) was quoted 20 years later in the book "Life Everlasting in the Freedom of the Sons of God", or the book "Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace, if I even got that correct, also toward the end of the book, but my memory is not what it used to be.
Spoing!
I just remembered the address of where I lived when I was 9 years old, and ..... page 184, paragraph 10.
The only "Farmer's Experience" I ever heard that I remember was about the old farmer who used a section of garden hose to repair his milking machine, and the connection broke loose and blasted him across the farm yard with a jet of hot milk. 
It might  have killed him, had he been lactose intolerant.
 
 

I am not talking about "dodos" ... and you know that very well. :))) You showed little attempt to redirect my words. This is something what i wouldn't expect from you :))
 
 
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
Hmmm, i would understand how person who are  born of Spirit KNOW exactly who he/she is and where he/she is going.
If so, then WT multiplication of all sort of knowledge is so "dodo". :))