Patiently waiting for Truth

It is more than “possible.” He is definitely a dodo.
I don’t try to micromanage it. I back up and look at the bigger picture. I look at Holy Spirit as “the wind [that] blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going.” It seems like a fool’s errand to try to stipulate just how or even if it operates in any given situation. (John 3:8)
 I take for granted that Holy Spirit does not stop a human from being human. It certainly didn’t in the first century. Why expect that it would today? I put stock in passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16....All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,  Humans do their best, botch up many things, and somehow God pulls a rabbit out of the hat with it.
We carry on here at the WNMF as though these matters can be settled objectively, when the very nature of our being defeats the goal and ensures that all will be subjective. “Taste and see that Jehovah is good,” the psalm says. Some have tasted and seen that he is bad. How are you going to prove otherwise to them? Their experience is their experience and they process it as they will. It is more a matter of the heart than the head. The heart chooses what it wants and then entrusts the head to provide a veneer of rationality to give the appearance that it is the head. But it is the heart all along.
Why is it that so few people change in any interaction such as this? Why does not one ever persuade the other? Not just this forum on spiritual topics, but on any forum about anything? I have seen only the tiniest shifting of opinion from certain participants, and in most cases, none at all. It is not a matter of the head.
Assembling the Bible canon. It’s not a bad topic of discussion and it has been brought up several times. Lately I have been listening to a series of talks from the Great Courses company entitled: “From Jesus to Constantine: A History of Early Christianity.” The speaker is Bart Ehrman, Chair of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, he with a Masters of Divinity degree.
You’d almost think that the Chair of a Religious Department would believe in God, but he does not appear to. If I took a science course taught by one who thought Newton and Einstein were well intentioned but misguided zealots, I would smell a rat.
Questions for Study at the conclusion of one lecture includes: “Why do you suppose such people as Perpetua or Ignatius—who presumably had so much to offer people in this world and who could have no doubt led happy lives here—were so eager to sacrifice their bodies and leave this world?”
Thus he indicates that he does not have a clue as to what he teaches. The entire motivation of a Christian appears to be a totally foreign concept to him, notwithstanding that he is recognized as the smartest person in the room.
 
 

This is possible what you said Tom. To be inspired but not have awareness of that. Of course, we can make some more thoughts on that too.
But i wish to ask: if Inspired individual is not aware of own state of inspiration, how individuals who are not inspired by God can made, make claims about God's manifest of inspiration in other persons? Have in mind that devil can make inspirational miracles too. 
How you who are not inspired by God recognize that someone else is inspired by God? We are not speaking about "miracles" as walking on water and feeding 5000 people with few fish, but about doctrines.
After uninspired men have collected some letters from dust and caves, their eyes were "opened" to see how what they have in hands are "inspired" by God????? Amazing! Or do you suggesting how Pope and other bishops were "inspired", while choosing letters, but also not been aware how God inspired them for this task?

On first question answer would be: Behaviour and decisions are human freedom, and Jesus not need to "control" this aspect. But Congregation is His Work, He made Congregation, and i guess He has interest that this body to be as much as possible without blame. 
On second question answer would be: Elders want to be elders by own will, no one force them to be on that position, i guess. Did Jesus choose them or GB? What ever be the case, both of this group claims how Jesus is their Lord. 
About "control". Elders working as "controllers", because they try to correct and dfd all individuals who not behave in harmony to rules. Well, i see a little contradiction about your claim how Jesus not want to "control" behaviour and decision of people in the congregation. If Jesus as Master and Lord not want to control human behaviour and decisions, as you said, why you think that elders have that right?
In continue question comes: Why you think that Jesus have no interest to "control" those who "controlling" sheeps in HIS Flock?  
Maybe we can go to use other words instead word "control"?

No, I was not meaning to compare them to a fortuneteller, just the situation, the method of putting something out there and seeing if it sticks. Like a shot in the dark. I don't think the GB/wt do this all the time, just in a few cases. 1914 being one of them, and the overlapping generation another one....
There are many ways to put across the fundamental teachings of Jesus and the Bible without having to be specific about some things we are not sure about. For example we can preach the Kingdom, and what it will do, and that it will come soon, without even mentioning 1914, for example.
 

A perfect topic for another day. This is a topic I might not be ready for. But I've seen enough to know you are making some good points and asking some good and thoughtful questions. I'm surprised that the topic gets completely ignored for the most part among Witnesses and every other religious group I've wondered about. 

No problem, that's why I keep a drawer full of spare gaskets.
-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
You know, the Bible way back then was actually just a collection of letters, stories, novels ( The "book" of Enoch comes to mind ...), poems, essays, and "church" stuff, some on scraps of papyrus, before it was edited and assembled into what we now call the Bible.
Since the Bible we have today was originally decided upon by the Catholic Church ( Eusebius of Caesarea was there and watched it being done, as well as helped ...), should we credit THEM with being inspired?
( I hope JWI jumps in on this one and does the "heavy lifting", to get it straightened out ....)

They didn’t know that at the time, you dodo. It is only after the fact that their letters were collected and included in the Bible canon.
The example of Paul is almost as bad as that of Peter the Chicken (Galatians 2:21) and John, who lost every 2nd disciple, as I put before ‘hardening of the mental arteries’ JTR for his consideration.
“To the married people I give instructions, yet not I but the Lord, that a wife should not depart from her husband; but if she should actually depart, let her remain unmarried or else make up again with her husband; and a husband should not leave his wife,” he writes. (1 Corinthians 7:11)
And then...
“But to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord: If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and yet she is agreeable to dwelling with him, let him not leave her.” Vs 12
Whoa! Going beyond what is written much?
”Now concerning virgins I have no command from the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who had mercy shown him by the Lord to be faithful.”  Vs 25
His opinion?!!
Can you imagine how @James Thomas Rook Jr., not to mention yourself, would have blown a gasket back then?
 

It is still so funny how JWs need to compare modern day Elders to those Anointed Christians of the first century. Anointed Christians back then were inspired of God, hence they wrote Bible books that we have now. Obviously the apostates were not inspired of God.
Elders, just like the GB, are not inspired by God, and do not have a clue. There really is no comparison. 
I have faith that God through Christ will inspire Anointed ones again soon.  

@b4ucuhear 
Quote " Also, who and at what point would a faithful and discreet slave manifest themselves..."
I don't think there is a F&DS as such. I don't think anyone should give themselves that title. If Jesus as the Master returns and finds a certain group of humans doing what he wants them to do, then Jesus himself will decide who that 'slave' is. BUT for a person or group of people to exalt themselves to such a position, well the scriptures tell us what happens to those that Exalt THEMSELVES. 
This bit is so funny :-
Quote " Dates are of little concern to anyone who intends their dedication to God to be forever. "
So, in that case, the Bible Students and Watchtower writers / GB / JW Org et al, are not intending to dedicate themselves to God forever. Because they have always guessed at dates, told lies about dates, destroyed peoples lives with dates, and made a mockery of God with their guessing about dates. It has always been GOING BEYOND THE THINGS WRITTEN. 
 

But if GB / Writing department only wrote TRUTH that they were 100% certain of and could prove, then the Watchtower mags would be empty, and there would be no 'talk outlines' to use. However, why is it not possible to just have meetings that give praise to God through Christ, without needing to give false information through a magazine ? And why do people need to be told, using a 'Work Book', what to preach ? Surely if they are qualified to preach they would know in their hearts what to preach.  It all just shows that the congregants are just puppets for the GB and it's Org. 
Of course it also shows that I'm not qualified to preach to others  or I would be doing so. Unfortunately, having got rid of a fake foundation, I haven't yet built a new foundation. But i still think that having an empty cup is better than having a cup of poison. So I've thrown the poison away, washed out the cup (my heart and my mind), and now I'm ready to receive truth. But where that truth will come from i do not know. 
 

It is still so funny how JWs need to compare modern day Elders to those Anointed Christians of the first century. Anointed Christians back then were inspired of God, hence they wrote Bible books that we have now. Obviously the apostates were not inspired of God.
Elders, just like the GB, are not inspired by God, and do not have a clue. There really is no comparison. 
I have faith that God through Christ will inspire Anointed ones again soon.  

The Insight Book is from the Org, because they are frightened to answer honest questions. 
And you @b4ucuhear just follow the GB / Orgs directions blindly. 
I like the second scripture you used 
1 Timothy 6:3 "If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and dates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth..." 
The Bible Students and the Directors / GB / of Watchtower & JW Org have constantly argued about things. GB members have bee d/fed. Some on here that have worked in Bethel can give you first hand information about regular squabbles there. 
And the puffed up with pride bit, defo' refers to the GB calling themselves the F&DS. 

I don't even think the Holy Spirit flows.
 

Much of what Jehovah's Witnesses believe was written before the men of the Governing Body were born! The Governing Body only teach us how Bible verses relate to other verses that we may have a complete understanding of the Bible.They relate Bible truths just as Jesus did while he was on Earth.
Why would God need to set up another Anointed Organization to do the work that is almost complete?
The Ark is almost finished, look at the details coming in
Many have been misled by believing that a day spoken of by others would be the start of God's judgment.If I was anointed and lived through WW1, I would have probably expected to be changed to a spirit at anytime.
But new light and understanding come in knowing Jehovah is Just, He will give nearly every human alive for a given time opportunity to come to know Him, the rest will be resurrected during the next 1000 years to accept Him or Not after accurate knowledge of Him is presented to them.
The Witnesses are presenting that Truth today, this is enough in God's Eyes to pass judgment on a persons inner heart condition when He sits to Judge the inhabited Earth on the last day of this world order. Many have been confronted many times with the Truth or an invitation to view it. While others have never seen it, in His Justice and Equality, God is searching the Earth for those who will attain a relationship with Him and will not miss anyone who may be a possible friend.
Anyone who wants to easily learn the Bible Truth spoken about here and other posts may begin here

He does not.
Father Christmas. I hate that idiot.
He does believe God can do that—what are you smoking? But he also believes that God will not bother, since he already has an acceptable one.

Does this means how GB and elders have no doubts today, and never did. And was/are in agreement (fully convinced) in all false teachings from past to today and to tomorrow, and how such false and error teachings still deserved to be called "Past Truth", "Old Light", "Temporary Truth", "Present Truth" and similar ????.  :))))
So, many are willing to wait and keep on preaching errors in various modes as individuals who have; doubts, are not fully convinced, are in disagreement or are in full agreement?
It is possible, but then what about verses who speaking about Jesus as Shepherd of his congregations, Master, Lord who have stars aka elders in his hand. ?? And how He is the One who sets and removes elders from position?? This sounds to me how He should be in control. :))

The Insight Book is from the Org, because they are frightened to answer honest questions. 
And you @b4ucuhear just follow the GB / Orgs directions blindly. 
I like the second scripture you used 
1 Timothy 6:3 "If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and dates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth..." 
The Bible Students and the Directors / GB / of Watchtower & JW Org have constantly argued about things. GB members have bee d/fed. Some on here that have worked in Bethel can give you first hand information about regular squabbles there. 
And the puffed up with pride bit, defo' refers to the GB calling themselves the F&DS. 

An oldie but goodie. Especially when it's appropriate. Its not about "strength of faith or hiding." It's about not stupidly wasting time on nonsense. 
2 Tim. 2:23 "Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing they produce fights. 24 For the slave of the Lord does not need to fight...showing restraint when wronged, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed. Perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him to do his will." 
1 Timothy 6:3 "If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and dates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth..."
I couldn't have said it better myself.
That is a cop-out explanation/repsonse. For a better one read the Insight book under Apostasy to show you what a scriptural view of apostasy is - including within the Christian congregation. And how it is proper and scriptural to avoid such individuals. Both Jesus and Russell were considered apostates by apostate religion - which in effect is a compliment. It's like the world telling us we aren't doing the right thing in behaving like them and yet we are doing the right thing in not behaving like them. It's a matter of perspective. The scriptural perspective fortunately, doesn't rest on your personal opinions. 

I would like to remind everyone that Charles Taze Russell was considered an apostate, as was Jesus.
In the very first issue of the Watchtower CTS observed that if we received a truthful statement from Satan (possibly referring to how he was viewed as "satan" ...) .... that statement is still the TRUTH.
Everything has to be evaluated on its own merits, and THAT ALONE ... irregardless of the messenger.
The FIRST refuge of the incompetent is to call someone an apostate.
The second refuge of the incompetent is to in effect say "... take your baseball, and go home.".
...

@b4ucuhear  It was sarcasm. But i see it stung. The truth as they say, hurts sometimes, and you are hurt by truth. I'm not going into the list of dates from the late 1800's through to 1975 and probably more afterwards too. You will know of such things, or you will have built yourself a wall to hide from them. 
But i see you are a typical JW, no real strength of faith, so you have to hide behind that old old word 'apostate'. 

@b4ucuhear 
Quote " Also, who and at what point would a faithful and discreet slave manifest themselves..."
I don't think there is a F&DS as such. I don't think anyone should give themselves that title. If Jesus as the Master returns and finds a certain group of humans doing what he wants them to do, then Jesus himself will decide who that 'slave' is. BUT for a person or group of people to exalt themselves to such a position, well the scriptures tell us what happens to those that Exalt THEMSELVES. 
This bit is so funny :-
Quote " Dates are of little concern to anyone who intends their dedication to God to be forever. "
So, in that case, the Bible Students and Watchtower writers / GB / JW Org et al, are not intending to dedicate themselves to God forever. Because they have always guessed at dates, told lies about dates, destroyed peoples lives with dates, and made a mockery of God with their guessing about dates. It has always been GOING BEYOND THE THINGS WRITTEN. 
 

@b4ucuhear  It was sarcasm. But i see it stung. The truth as they say, hurts sometimes, and you are hurt by truth. I'm not going into the list of dates from the late 1800's through to 1975 and probably more afterwards too. You will know of such things, or you will have built yourself a wall to hide from them. 
But i see you are a typical JW, no real strength of faith, so you have to hide behind that old old word 'apostate'. 

@b4ucuhear  It was sarcasm. But i see it stung. The truth as they say, hurts sometimes, and you are hurt by truth. I'm not going into the list of dates from the late 1800's through to 1975 and probably more afterwards too. You will know of such things, or you will have built yourself a wall to hide from them. 
But i see you are a typical JW, no real strength of faith, so you have to hide behind that old old word 'apostate'. 

Thank-you for being honest enough to acknowledge that. Some posters here only see from dark glasses and do not appear to be honest even with themselves. So on your point above, we are in agreement.
To be fair, "shunning," "excommunication," "disfellowshipping" isn't just a part of JW's beliefs. In fact, other religions feel they have a scriptural basis for doing just that. How much they implement it is up to them. But there is a practical aspect to this as well. It is one thing to have "doubts" and not be fully convinced about certain things - even disagree, but another try to "draw disciples away after themselves" - or basically start your own religion based on your own personal thoughts. Right now, we enjoy world-wide unity in thought, belief and action. (even though there may be variances as to who believes how much and what - as evidenced on sites such as this). If someone is so disillusioned with our beliefs that they want to leave, that is a choice they can make. Some quietly leave with no fuss and just leave off. But others are very vocal and opposed within the congregation and are more disposed to tearing down than building up - causing dissensions. (Some on this site I would consider such and some I consider outright apostates who never have anything good or constructive to say.) To them I would say: "Stop wasting my time and yours and get a life. If you don't like it go." It's that simple. But others, based on the many changes that have been made, (changes that are often in line with their thinking all along) are willing to take a wait and see attitude, with the faith that if it's that important, Jesus can ensure changes are made at a rate we can handle or understand. (And NO, I don't believe that "Jesus controls everything that goes on in the congregation." I believe the other explanation given, that he grants authority and we are accountable as to how we use that authority based on God's Word. 
What an absurd conclusion to draw. But that is not surprising since I now believe you are an apostate and I shouldn't be wasting my time responding. My point btw, was that we shouldn't base our dedication to God on a date - whatever date that may be. Of course, it may not stop some from doing just that. But don't be surprised if I rarely if ever respond to your apostate views again. 

Quote @TrueTomHarley  " You could easily make the case that it didn’t flow in the first century either. "
I don't think it flowed 24/7.  But if it did then God works in mysterious ways. 
I certainly don't think it flows now.