Patiently waiting for Truth

I think you have to stretch it to say the kid is “big business.”
This is a kid who hustles, and @James Thomas Rook Jr.is not wrong to give him an attaboy. Still, jw.org itself would not countenance it. They are on record as to how they feel about use of their copywrited images. To be sure, they probably have bigger fish to fry.
To me it is distasteful to wear anything like that—I am not a billboard. Still, people are like that everywhere and there is no sense in making a big issue over it. Look at how many people wear logos of commercial products or their favorite team.

This is exactly the point made in Revelation, but it also matches what Paul says in 1 Cor 15 and 1 & 2 Thess, which matches Matthew 13. This is the explanation that causes no inconsistencies. Unfortunately the 1914 doctrine causes many inconsistencies in my opinion. Perhaps I'll write up a longer answer later, but I think your question could be further answered by just reviewing a couple of those other Bible passages that are related:
Some people in Paul's day were getting over-anxious about the timing of the parousia, and he had to remind them that this could be a ways off. If the Watchtower is right, Paul could have said, it can't happen yet, because Jesus is not even ruling as King yet!
But instead,
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-8) . . .However, brothers, concerning the presence [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:2) . . .Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. 14 For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus. 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. 18 So keep comforting one another with these words. 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
First of all notice that the parousia is the same as the day of the Lord (Jehovah) in the 2 Thess 2. But also note that at the trumpet's call they all go together at the same time. This trumpet call is associated with a time that the Watchtower now admits to be future when it is mentioned here:
(Matthew 24:30, 31) . . ., and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.
(Matthew 13:39-41,44) . . .The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom . . . At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.
Notice too the verses already quoted above from 1 Cor 15:23-27;50-52. We can already see problems with 1914. Notice that Paul writing in the first century gives an overview of the major events of the kingdom, that include those expected in the future.  
Christ is resurrected. Then those belong to Christ (anointed) are resurrected "at the parousia." Then the "end" when he hands the Kingdom back to his Father (Jehovah), after he has completely brought to nothing all governments and power and even Death, the last enemy, has also been brought to nothing. (In Revelation this is the same as saying that Death has been completely destroyed, "tossed into the lake of fire.") Notice anything missing in this sequence? Even if it were OK to translate "at the parousia" as "during his presence" we notice that this taking the reins of the Kingship is NOT considered an important event in the sequence.
And it's pretty obvious why. It's because Paul assumes that Jesus Christ is already reigning, (1 Cor 15:25) and already reigning in the midst of his enemies, and already beginning to show his power over those enemies by accepting "subjects" into the Kingdom who are already under his command, accepting that Jesus has already been given ALL AUTHORITY. So why would Jesus need to be declared King at some later point if he was already given all authority, and was already commanding his subjects?
(Matthew 28:18-20) . . .Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
(Jesus also declared that his "presence" had already begun: "I am with you." Also, if the conclusion began in 1914, Jesus would only be with them until 1914.)
There's another instance of this idea that showed up in one of the Watchtower quotes above:
*** w98 2/1 p. 17 pars. 18-19 Greater Blessings Through the New Covenant ***
Then Daniel saw that “the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.” Jesus is the one “like a son of man” who, in 1914, received the heavenly Kingdom from Jehovah God. His spirit-anointed disciples are “the holy ones” who share with him in that Kingdom. (1 Thessalonians 2:12)
The Watchtower quoted 1 Thess 2:12 to indicate that this starts in 1914, but Paul wrote 1 Thess in the first century and indicated that it was ALREADY begun.
(1 Thessalonians 2:12) 12 so that you would go on walking worthily of God, who is calling you to his Kingdom and glory.

@JW Insider Thank you once again.
In my 60's English I would say ' That is heavy vibes man'   Meaning deep thinking.
But, let's go back to this :-
Revelation 6:9-11. ...... 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.
So, ' until the number was filled' would be in our time now. And even if one of the Anointed now should 'turn bad' and have to be replaced, then it could even be in the future. (As I suspect there will be another 'ten years' before Judgement time). 
So, are the Apostles / disciples to 'rest a little while longer' even now ? In fact right up until the last of the Anointed has proven faithful. And if so is the Watchtower / GB / Org, going against the things written by suggesting that the Apostles have already been resurrected in the spirit form and are now in heaven with Christ ? 
I suppose I'm asking you here to talk in opposition to the GB etc, but I'm not looking to find fault at this time, I'm looking for better understanding of scripture. 

Yes. Basically. I'm not trying to get too technical here, but the Heavenly Kingdom has been a part of Jehovah's heavenly organization from "time indefinite." This is why you will more often see the idea worded like this:
*** w09 4/15 p. 30 par. 10 Appreciating Jesus—The Greater David and the Greater Solomon ***
. . . in 1914 when he was enthroned as King in the heavenly Kingdom.
*** w05 5/1 p. 11 par. 14 The Resurrection—A Teaching That Affects You ***
In 1914, Jehovah enthroned Jesus as Messianic King of the heavenly Kingdom and commanded him to rule in the midst of his enemies
*** w00 5/15 p. 17 par. 10 Have Faith in God’s Prophetic Word! ***
When “the appointed times of the nations” ended in 1914, God established the heavenly Kingdom under Christ.
So, technically, Jesus became the King of a Heavenly Kingdom that had been there all along. It was now set up or established under Christ. This is why he is said to hand it back to the his God and Father when the "mission" is accomplished. (1 Cor 15:24, below)
(1 Corinthians 15:23-27) 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. [literally, at his parousia] 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.”. .
But the expressions "the Messianic/Davidic Kingdom" and the "Heavenly Kingdom" have at times, especially in the past, been carefully distinguished, but it is now simpler, and we often say "the heavenly kingdom was 'established' in 1914" which is the same as saying it was "set up" then. In fact, it was really only supposed to be "set up" in a new and different way starting in 1914, where Jehovah entrusted Christ to rule from his right hand, and go on conquering, first by proving his power over the Devil by casting him out of heaven, gathering a congregation of loyal subjects, commanding those subjects to go preaching, declaring that the "lease" of power that had been given to the nations had now run out, etc
That's a good question. But it appears that they must wait until the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous.
(Revelation 6:9-11) . . .When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.
As for the resurrection of the righteous:
(Matthew 13:41-43) 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. . .
The Watchtower used to say that this resurrection started in 1918, but inconsistently, the words "at that time" are now applied to a future time associated with the "great tribulation." The Watchtower still allows that this first resurrection of those anointed already sleeping in death would likely have happened between 1914 and 1935, with 1918 still being "an interesting possibility" 
*** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 12 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way! ***
Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God’s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ’s presence began.
This 1918 date had been taught as a definite thing, for many years, but it was really just a leftover piece of the tradition about "parallel dispensations." In the earlier version of this parallel dispensation, there were 3.5 year segments from Oct 1844 to Passover/Spring 1878 to October 1881. (Jesus had been raised in the spring of 33, 3.5 years after he became Christ in 29 C.E.) This had been updated to October 1914 +3.5= Spring 1918, a parallel time for a resurrection. Since there is no Biblical basis for parallel dispensations, this had to be dropped to only "an interesting possibility."
*** w98 2/1 p. 17 pars. 18-19 Greater Blessings Through the New Covenant ***
Then Daniel saw that “the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.” Jesus is the one “like a son of man” who, in 1914, received the heavenly Kingdom from Jehovah God. His spirit-anointed disciples are “the holy ones” who share with him in that Kingdom. (1 Thessalonians 2:12) How?
19 After their death, these anointed ones are like Jesus raised from the dead as immortal spirit creatures to serve with him as kings and priests in heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:50-53; Revelation 20:4, 6)
(1 Corinthians 15:50-52) . . .. 51 Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed.
I think if we look closely at these arguments presented in the Watchtower, we'll see at least 5 problems where the Watchtower is inconsistent with the Scriptures. Otherwise I would not bring up the problems with the doctrine.

WOW! That is one HUGE Airplane !
...and where's Beaker?

This whole thing seems a little weird to me. Not so much the ball caps, but why the JW no blood badge? I looks like some kind of political statement to me. How will people understand it? Is it some kind of protest against bloodshed? Or it's similar to gay people pushing their lifestyle with rainbow "regalia". Most people know we don't take blood. Why make it an issue? It might be that people seeing this will wonder what it's about and might be curious enough to visit the website. Still, I don't think this is a good way to get them there. My opinion.
And whats that tongue about?
 
 

Wwwhhhaaaaaatttt? So CSA is not a purpose for justice? 
as they should since they are the ones making the rules! 
do you not remember how the catholic priests were molesting kids and how it flooded the news in recent years? 
we're talking about CSA right? So who are the jws to judge? nobody! So they should leave that up to the authorities to figure it out. The authorities won't be able to figure it out unless it gets reported, which ANY moral person would do. 
should have already happened and turned that money over to the victims! 
is sitting behind a trolley still called preaching? 
oh I recognize what jws have done.......NOTHING but cover it up as proven by the Australian Royal Commission as well as the San Diego Superior courts. 
 

People confuses hate with wanting justice 4jah2me.
I don't personally hate JWs, I was one a few months ago and I still like them but I do hate watchtower policies and lies and unfortunately some people confuses that hate and think we hate JWs.
Like we used to say to the public about gay people, we don't hate gay people we hate their acts, the same goes for JWs, we don't hate them we hate JW's organisation and their horrible man made policies.
I still love Jehovah and Jesus and I am sure many still do.

We do hate sexual abuse but you are so totally critical that you do not recognize any efforts JWs have done (when there were no laws in place) to do something about this..... being totally unreasonable. You also do not have the capacity to put yourself in another organizations shoes.  .... to look at an issue from BOTH sides......nor reasonable but only one sided. Hence my contention that you have joined the haters....... no constructive criticism but totally destructive. .... 

It's probably confusing because I am reviewing the details of the current interpretations that include 1914, but I can't currently agree with all of them.
The date 1914 is true in some ways, as there was a fulfillment of prophecy in that year. During several points in the last days, we should expect critical times hard to deal with. We should expect to see wars and reports of wars. 1914 was one of the dates where such fulfillments were definitely experienced. So was the effect these critical times had on the Watchtower Society leaders and Bible students. Recall that Jesus said "they will persecute you and put some of you in prison."
The only problem I have with putting too much emphasis on 1914 is that Jesus warned us NOT to look to wars and pestilence and earthquakes as part of any SIGN that could be used to inform us about the parousia. Recall that Jesus said, there would be a great judgment upon the Jerusalem Temple where it would be completely destroyed. So the disciples asked if they could learn if there would be any signs so that they would know WHEN this parousia might happen. So Jesus said, don't be misled, you will see lots of things that are bad, the kinds of things that fool people into thinking they are seeing a sign, but that this particular judgment will come like a thief in the night, by surprise, as if with no warning. But that was their warning - so they would be prepared for the right reasons at all times. It was enough to know that it MIGHT come in their own lifetime. Same with us. It MIGHT come in our own lifetime, but for all of us it is a short period of time, our own lifespan, or perhaps shorter than that if we live to see it.
No I don't believe 1914 is the time of the establishment of the heavenly kingdom, because the Bible says that it was established in the first century. We might see things in history that prove to us that it is "more and more" established, and this would be like when the Jews could celebrate an event with a phrase like "Jehovah has become king." It didn't mean he wasn't always "king" but that there was some new manifestation or appreciation of that kingship due to some exciting and significant event.
But from a technical perspective, the Bible already calls Jesus the king of kings in the first century, but we can still expect future significant events when we might say again "Jesus has become king!" It depends on how much prophetic significance we give to those events, as we believe we are seeing Bible prophecy fulfilled. I don't think anyone should blame Russell and Rutherford for thinking that Jesus became king in 1878. They were excited to believe they lived in the time when Jesus had returned to be present again in 1874, and thought they were seeing prophecy being fulfilled. I don't think Rutherford should be blamed for changing it to 1914 several years after thinking about the probable prophetic significance of that year. But I think that part of this was a way to save face, since a lot of significant things happened in 1914, but none of them were related to the things they had once predicted for 1914.

JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
Respectfully yours, Alan
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
JWI is stupid
Respectfully yours, Allen

For a second there, I thought AlanF was back, until I realized that was it and this wasn't going to be a string of 10 insults in the same post.

When the cake deteriorates into crumbs, it is no longer a cake, and my wife rolls it into the casserole for dinner the next day.
Accepted as such. That’s why the same cry of ‘foul’ is made for JTR’s sigh.

You totally misuse the hate of Child Sexual Abuse within the JW Org, to pretend it is religious persecution.  And this is a JW website, hence i don't wish to talk about Catholics, Muslims et al. 
And once again you compare the GB and the Org to the wicked world outside. Why ? We all know and we all expect, Satan's wicked world to do wicked things. BUT you pretend that the JW Org is so clean and a safe place to be in. Some of us are proving you wrong. 

....sigh .....

HELP!! HELP!! ABUSE!! WHERE IS THE LIBRARIAN?? 
(THAT OLD HEN)

As much as I dislike talking to you, I would just say.
I did not forget to mention it I just didn't mentioned it.
Again I did not make the claim that JWs were single out.
 

You forgot to mention many of the organizations such as scouts etc that closed their doors and cannot get taken to court..... and are not held accountable....You also name only one Jewish case when there are many....many  ....and you also forgot the muslem 9 year old marriages that are thrown out of court and nothing done!  Many rape gangs in UK for 15 years and police turn a blind eye. 
Why do you not go and stand in the street in front of mosque when the next 9 year old gets married. Stand with a placard indicati g you are against 9 year old marriages in your own country.  Then you will see where the true sympathies of governments lie and if your government really cares about 9 year old victims who cannot give consent for marriage. Do they really care about the continued rape of 9 year olds? ......... will you find yourself behind bars? Heh?.
 
 

Lol JWs single out... 🤣🤣🤣 
Maybe all those Catholic Cardinals in Australia and 1 in particular the Top Australian Catholic member in Australia that fled to the Vatican and the Jewish teacher that fled as well and now brought back to Australia and convicted and in jail because of child sex abuse...
The Australian Royal Commission was not only for the JWs, they had one for the Catholics and hill song organisation and the salvation army and many other institutions.
And people still think that JWs are single out 😆😆😆
Atrocious to say JWs are single out. 
 
 

They will use this as the excuse..... not for the purpose of true justice.  Jehovah has never punished someone else for a murder. The perpetrator must have the consequences himself - not someone else - but only  on witness of two people because of the seriousness of the consequences.
  The GB will carry the consequences even though they were not the perpetrators of the crimes or the elders in the congregation which could not determine guilt..... or negligence in congregation. 
And here I use the example again of other religious organizations.  It is more prevalent in Islam than in catholic church and also the Jews BUT do you ever see anyone of these religions put it in the press? ....never a word in the press.   Why are JWs singled out?..... even though we shun when we can determine guilt ?   Because  people want to destroy us. They know we are imperfect like they are - but their hate for us wins the day.....  we are wicked when we do not immediately condemn without enough proof and we are condemned when we shun...... so we can never get it right.... similar to Jesus they will find a reason to crucify us. 
I think they will turn against GB and confiscate all property......... but JWs will still meet and not be destroyed when other religions are destroyed at Armageddon........ then when we still preach ..... they will turn on us - final part of Armageddon.

Do not twist my words......  I said people do not have respect for blood.  So no- we are NOT to consume whole  blood in any way. When it comes to fractions, it is a personal decision,  such as vaccinations - which are grown with fetus tissue etc. 

If taking fractional blood is OK .... and according to the Governing Body it is left up to your own conscience ...
...then why is not fractional Neutrality also left up to ones' own conscience.
......such as "Give Caesar's things to Caesar ... but God's things to God", ..... meaning you can participate in commonly deciding with your community how it is to be managed and operated (voting), but drawing the line at giving your allegiance to a political entity, and fighting to preserve it from enemies, domestic and foreign?
It seems to me that if fractional blood products are "legal", then fractional neutrality is also something that should be left to your conscience.
As Marvin Webster sez: "Y'all think about it."
=  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  = 
I think the issue is going to be resolved that way pretty soon, anyway, because of Norway's getting fed up with the WTB&TS getting Norwegian tax subsidies for the 112,000 Jehovah's Witnesses in Norway, when they are engaged in forbidding the JWs to vote, which they consider to be an abominable violation of basic human rights, on an elemental level, and there are several million dollars involved, and a dangerous extremist position, a cancer on THEIR society.
Nothing changes Watchtower policy faster than the idea of losing free money.
.... as it did with the blood issue after being sued by the families of those who died needing blood.
 

How about, “And she said unto him, ‘It’s not a cake until you mix the ingredients’”? (1 Bettycrocker 5:9)

You know the scriptures..... there are no scriptures referring to fractions. 
Apart from medicines and vitamins with blood fractions,  there is talk of beauty products made from fetuses, impossible burger synthetic  meat which has DNA in it which causes it to bleed etc.  Yes man is getting pretty wicked and innovative.... so it depends on the person- what they know and what they do not know.....

I would VERY much like to see the scripture for that one.
It is a rhetorical comment, of course because there aren't any ... merely the personal opinions of a group of men who are trying not to be financially sued out of a job.
While you are looking that up, consider this ..... If its OK to receive everything that is blood that is fractionated .... can you also DONATE blood if you are assured it will be fractionated?
.... might be a handy source of income when a Brother or Sister's rent is due, and they don't have enough money to pay it.
 
Hmmmmm?