Patiently waiting for Truth

When my children were young, preschool, at the Kingdom Hall I required them to be quiet and respectful, but did not require them to pay attention.  I let them scribble, and do coloring books, and play silently with very small toys in their seats.
Today my oldest is an elder, and all three are strong and active in the truth of the Truth (to the best of my knowledge), have very good jobs and married well ... VERY well. 
It was more important to me for them to have HAPPY childhoods.
Meantime, I know many elders whose children all left.
.... but then again ... I am a Barbarian and a loose cannon.
...  silly me.

In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study. (Gal. 1:15-17) Such efforts would cause divisions within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity.   wt 1/2016, "We Want to Go With You"
1) "elite club", 2) "private groups for Bible study", 3) "cause division", 4) "against holy spirit"
I am interested to know on what evidences, GB made conclusion about this 4 points?? and how other rank and file members came to same conclusion as GB, how anointed want to separate themselves in such a way and a measure to be considered as promoter of this 4 points?. This doesn't mean how some of them (anointed) are not in such state of mind to think about self as more spiritual than somebody else. But is this general problem that includes ALL anointed? All other "groups" inside WT Society and JW organization can do the same, to act according to 4 points. 
I think how GB need to offer proper, trustful evidences for conclusion and advice, for warning they made. Our comments about this, mostly are based on few premises.
For example: Can we trust GB research and objectivity on this. Did they made any research, and how they collected information's how some anointed made private study. What is problem if they gathered? People doing that all the time outside of congregation. Solely gathering can't be reason for ban they want to implement (not only to anointed, but to all JW members).      
Who gave power to GB to make decision how you or other members have to behave on such issue. To make warning that you are not entitled to have private Bible researches? What is PRIVATE in GB minds? 
I will not going to more words. Just like to make thinking question: What if this "private groups of Bible studies" and gatherings (spiritual hiding) in "caves" aka homes are in fact what this verse speaking about?
Nevertheless, I have reserved seven thousand in Israel— all whose knees have not bowed to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.” - 1. kings 19
 

It is their job to meet together to coordinate activities where they are serving. 
 A meeting of only anointed at congregation level makes it exclusive - excluding the other sheep.  My experience tells me it is practical as well as scriptural decision. Anointed are just as prone to sin as any of us..... and may soon develop a superiority and start drawing sheep after themselves......... as happened jn the first century congregation.  We see many instances where people were drawing a following after themselves. They became wolves.
This is why I constantly say:  there us some hidden motive behind these persons which want this,  which they are not prepared to acknowledge.  They accuse the GB of hidden motives but this is an example of projecting their own sin on others. Pride has crept in somewhere -  to the extent that they are prepared to go against Jehovahs people as a nation at every opportunity.  They have no wish to feed the sheep but somehow to "influence" the sheep to your own benefit....No sacrificing love in any of it.
Yea, I typed it wrong late at night.  The guy is dead for more than two years .... not relevant as a person any more..... BUT the questions about "future " expectations,  morality, consciousness, language (which only humans have)  remain.

Quote @JW Insider " we really have nothing to lose and much to gain if our faith puts us on God's side. "
Oh dear, deep breath. Surely this is ONE OF the MAIN points of all this forum. 
From your comment :- IF OUR FAITH PUTS US ON GOD'S SIDE.
The whole point is, Does it put you on God's side ? 
Or, does it just put you on the side of the GB and JW Org ?   For there is a very big difference. 
 

I will admit I haven't yet read the Jan 2020 Wt but wanted to comment on this :-
Quote "There is no difference between them as regards their anointing, and how they should be treated. "
So if the GB can gather together then so can other Anointed. But not according to the GB 'rules'.
Quote " but in my opinion the GB do not receive any more, or any "special" type of holy spirit or insight than any other anointed,..." 
So what gives them the right to call themselves the F&DS ? What puts them at the top of the tree ?
And What stops them being removed from office ? 
Quote " The Bible does not say the FDS anointed know more, all it says is that they are to provide timely spiritual food, "
You seem to be twisting things here.  There are no F&DS anointed made known in the Bible. They have just called themselves as such. There is no proof of any appointment by God or Christ. 
Quote " all it says is that they are to provide timely spiritual food, .." 
BUT THEY HAVEN'T. They have supplied LIES.  They have also made 'man made rules', burdens for congregants to carry. Heavy loads as mentioned in God's word. 
They make threats. One such being that a person HAS TO BE a Baptised JW to survive Armageddon. And they add to that, that Armageddon is 'just around the corner', so close now etc. I'm sure if you were realistic you could understand that as a threat.  It is not a warning, because they have no proof of either.. 
Quote " Also they are not the only spokesmen for God. Anyone speaking the truth about God and Christ are also his spokespersons. "
So one doesn't need to be a JW to be a spokesperson for God then? 
And the GB and it's Org cannot be spokespersons for God, if they DO NOT speak TRUTH.
So we could go back over all the lies / mistakes / false predictions from the Bible Students and JWs, and we could say that they were never spokespersons for God. 
Quote @Arauna  Those without conscience will also murder if they can get away with it and many other immoral things if society let's them get away with it too!......
So because society allowed JW Elders to get away with it Earthwide, they committed Child Sexual Abuse and kept it hidden in the ORG. And the GB, because society allows them to get away with it, are holding back a twenty year database of Paedophile accusations. 

Trump is GOOD at it, and as far as I am concerned is the best President since Jackson.
As far as I am concerned, he saved the Republic from the evil liberal swamp creatures, already.
President Jimmy Carter was a fine, "christian" man, and a nuclear engineer, and a good carpenter building houses for the homeless ... and a tireless worker, even when exhausted, and my guess is absolutely honest .... .... but was a really crappy President.
As far as Trump goes, politics is like playing poker ... You are there to cut the others' hearts out and eat them, or you should not be playing.
...that's what the job is.

I will admit I haven't yet read the Jan 2020 Wt but wanted to comment on this :-
Quote "There is no difference between them as regards their anointing, and how they should be treated. "
So if the GB can gather together then so can other Anointed. But not according to the GB 'rules'.
Quote " but in my opinion the GB do not receive any more, or any "special" type of holy spirit or insight than any other anointed,..." 
So what gives them the right to call themselves the F&DS ? What puts them at the top of the tree ?
And What stops them being removed from office ? 
Quote " The Bible does not say the FDS anointed know more, all it says is that they are to provide timely spiritual food, "
You seem to be twisting things here.  There are no F&DS anointed made known in the Bible. They have just called themselves as such. There is no proof of any appointment by God or Christ. 
Quote " all it says is that they are to provide timely spiritual food, .." 
BUT THEY HAVEN'T. They have supplied LIES.  They have also made 'man made rules', burdens for congregants to carry. Heavy loads as mentioned in God's word. 
They make threats. One such being that a person HAS TO BE a Baptised JW to survive Armageddon. And they add to that, that Armageddon is 'just around the corner', so close now etc. I'm sure if you were realistic you could understand that as a threat.  It is not a warning, because they have no proof of either.. 
Quote " Also they are not the only spokesmen for God. Anyone speaking the truth about God and Christ are also his spokespersons. "
So one doesn't need to be a JW to be a spokesperson for God then? 
And the GB and it's Org cannot be spokespersons for God, if they DO NOT speak TRUTH.
So we could go back over all the lies / mistakes / false predictions from the Bible Students and JWs, and we could say that they were never spokespersons for God. 
Quote @Arauna  Those without conscience will also murder if they can get away with it and many other immoral things if society let's them get away with it too!......
So because society allowed JW Elders to get away with it Earthwide, they committed Child Sexual Abuse and kept it hidden in the ORG. And the GB, because society allows them to get away with it, are holding back a twenty year database of Paedophile accusations. 

I can see the likeness 

Quote @JW Insider " we really have nothing to lose and much to gain if our faith puts us on God's side. "
Oh dear, deep breath. Surely this is ONE OF the MAIN points of all this forum. 
From your comment :- IF OUR FAITH PUTS US ON GOD'S SIDE.
The whole point is, Does it put you on God's side ? 
Or, does it just put you on the side of the GB and JW Org ?   For there is a very big difference. 
 

Hey!! Look to your own hands, Bub!
 
Sigh....

I can see how a rudimentary eye might develop, but not one with multiple coordinated lens systems, an iris, to regulate light and exposure, etc, etc. and then there is the neural interface to the brain, etc., etc.
And the ear, which has miniature bones that move, and is an electromechanical marvel.
That being said, which to me, who spent a lifetime designing things... all kinds of things ... before I retired, and recognize designed things when I see them, I believe in ... based entirely on my own insight and experience, and observation ... in seeing in all life on Earth the directed hand of God.
After much study and reflection, taking into account millions of tons of hard fossil evidence that cannot be ignored, I believe in "Punctuated Creation" over the past few billion years, where guided evolution and dramatic corrections took place , which if explained simply enough to a 3rd grader, by being simplified into the word "Evolution".
The Humanoids that lived before the direct creation of Adam and Eve, did exist, and they did in fact "evolve", but had no spiritual component, or opportunity to live forever .... that we know about (!).
If you have a better idea, I am "all ears", as mine is only an educated and thoughtful "best guess", with what I know.
EVERYTHING that took place before Satan rebelled against God about 6,000 years ago ..... was "good".
...even versions 1.0, versions 2.0, and versions 3.0.
I do not have Polaroids.
.... and neither do you.
 
 

So, I've been mostly away from my computer for a few days, and it looks like this entire forum has been mashed up into a single thread/topic. I know that I was given the ability to move posts around to new threads, and I probably should have started to do that many days ago. (When I began I realized it was too late.)
But I also understand the simplicity (and short-term efficiency) of putting everything in the thread that people are actively participating in. In the longer-term, it's less efficient for those who need to go back and try to respond to things.
Since I think I'm getting in here at the tail end, I hoped to summarize a bit, and had hoped that Anna, Tom, Arauna, any "Allen Smith" alternative would have tired out AlanF so I could pretend to have delivered a final knock-out punch. But it keeps going and going with no end in sight. And there is no single topic on which one could hope to offer a "summary defense."
TTH, in spite of letting his tomfoolery characters get out of hand, has used them to point out so many of the areas where AlanF shows unnecessary antagonism, lack of empathy, and a lack of humor. He has also pointed out that AlanF's super-hypercritical view of JW leadership is also hypocritical in that an atheist should have no reason to pick on the spiritual and doctrinal beliefs of just one particular religion among hundreds. 
I like that Anna has picked up on some flaws in AlanF's reasoning. I think AlanF still argues against JW leadership from the FWF-era, especially the 1950's through the 1980's, when Anna and others have picked up on positive signs of transition, away from much of the dogmatism of that era. Slowly, I see some of the old arguments disintegrating, especially in moving a few of the events, once applied to 1918, 1919 and 1914, now being more correctly applied to the 1st century or the future judgment.
I like that Arauna has included some excellent points on intelligent design, some of which AlanF doesn't care to counter, but resorts to the trusty old ad hominem instead, either against Arauna or her sources.
Personally, I wish I could say more on the evolution/creation debate, but I've never tackled the relevant literature, and I can tell that even our own Writing Department has made enough mistakes in misquoting the relevant scientists that they aren't ready to fully tackle this topic either. However, I have a deep love for the Bible as God's Word, and the amazing consistency of the Bible books from first to last, and I have to wonder at the amazingly wide distribution of this particular book to every corner of the world. It's awe-inspiring. Because of this, I'll take "Pascal's wager," that even if we are of all men most to be pitied (if our faith is misplaced) we really have nothing to lose and much to gain if our faith puts us on God's side.
Besides, in the meantime, the true measure of Christianity is the activity that makes the world a better place and also makes us better individuals. We might even be better "neighbors" on random Internet forums, than those who reject Christian principles altogether.

I grow in knowledge of the bible by reading the Insight book..... there are fascinating things in there.... I would encourage all to strengthen themselves in this way.  I have also picked up some useful info by reading old publications........ not to criticize the GB as others do here on this forum but to find new little tit-bits I had not thought of before. 

The last days are indeed filled with woe, just as the Bible foretold.  In this troubled world, however, there are positive developments among the worshippers of Jehovah.
13 “The true knowledge will become abundant,” the Bible book of Daniel foretold. When would that happen? During “the time of the end.” (Daniel 12:4) Especially since 1914, Jehovah has helped those who truly desire to serve him to grow in understanding of the Bible.  
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-teach/are-we-living-in-the-last-days/
About:  Knowledge, Know more, Spiritual food, Understanding of Bible, Holy spirit, you mentioned.
You said well, Anna, how FDS (inside WT Society) are not in position to "know more" if they are out of working range of holy spirit, to understand more about some subjects, if Bible text not explicit say or explain what is what. If it is, as you say, how Bible not give any prove to all of us, that FDS will know more, than what spiritual food they producing? Which is already in the Bible?  Fine. But that would mean less articles that are directly connected to Bible text especially about prophesies and interpretations on many issues and, of course, about illustrations as, who is FDS. Bible not say who is FDS. When and how will come or came. Will they originated from Pennsylvania and then move to Warwick. 
If they, FDS, are uninspired, than they have no possibility to explain nothing from Bible, for outcome how such explanation would be correct. They can handle only basic teachings. To be good, not lie, love your neighbor, to preach Kingdom, not have idols ....and similar. Talking about 1914, King of the North, 6000 history of man is in shady, fog zone and are just interpretations leading nowhere.
Producing millions of articles (from 1879) with problematic explanations and instructions prove just opposite - that they not received enough spirit for their task. They are very good organized, that is for sure - but do you need HS for that or just to improve what was already exist in this worldly word and what working for centuries, especially in Western Democracies and Economics. 
 

Totally agree Anna,  the GB receive just enough holy spirit for their tasks and in the congregations around the world many anointed are serving to strengthen and help others. They do not see themselves as leaders at all. I know of one who stepped down as an elder because his own family needed more attention. Females support the congregation in so many other ways teaching the younger women to have a spirit of service.  Jehovah us never unjust - never partial.  Many brothers under the anointed receive as much holy spirit as they do - if they pray for it.  
 
 

Both WT, January 2016, and January 2020 that talk about the anointed, applies to ALL the anointed, which includes the GB. There is no difference between them as regards their anointing, and how they should be treated. And, even how much holy spirit they get. Some will disagree with me on this, but in my opinion the GB do not receive any more, or any "special" type of holy spirit or insight than any other anointed, or anyone else for that matter. The Bible does not say the FDS anointed know more, all it says is that they are to provide timely spiritual food, which is already in the Bible, and dispense it to the others and to each other, since they are also "domestics".  Also they are not the only spokesmen for God. Anyone speaking the truth about God and Christ are also his spokespersons.

Paul at Romans 14:4 was obviously not talking about the kind of judging that is to be done in order to keep the congregation spiritually and morally clean, as per:
"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness" 2 Tim 3:16. .
 "For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves. 1 Cor 5:12,13
"Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. Romans 16:17 
In order to do any of this there must be the ability to discern, or judge, who it applies to. And finally:
"Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account" Heb 13:7
 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You're killing me!

Don’t push me on this Alan. 
Like the angels holding back the winds, I have so far restrained my associates—you haven’t met them all yet, you have only met the bashful ones—to bombarding you with ridicule on every other thread that your ugly persona ventures. They haven’t gone there yet, nor have I done so myself. It is not that they and I have not been tempted.
It is not out of consideration for you. Judging by the qualities you have put on display, you deserve none. It is out of consideration for the one or two persons I respect that seem to feel that your contributions outweigh your ill manners.
Although there are many whom I vehemently oppose here, there are none of them who have not at times revealed “human,” even endearing, qualities. I have seldom met someone so bereft of them as you. You carry on as though a bot locked on nasty. Possibly there are born pugilists not put off by your manner. I’m not one of them. There may be ones of infinite patience willing to put up with your rudeness in order to extract what they think you have to offer. I’m not one of them, either. The most righteous case in the world is lost when the representing lawyer is so fantastically and consistently insulting that the jury rules against him out of sheer resentment.

I submit that TrueTomHarley and his multiple personalities are prima facie evidence of what long years in the JW cult can do to a person.

Bugger off, Tom.

That's O.K.
I don't trust a man who doesn't..
I felt sorry for a man who had no shoes .....
,,... until I met a man who had no gun.
 

I think it's because they just don't trust a man who carries a gun

I quite often think about that also ... and lament the burdens we have to bear because of legalism, verses common sense, love, mercy and justice.
Under the current environment and polices, if we DO "rescue a sheep on the Sabbath", we will be disfellowshipped and ostracized.
I know this, not on a theoretical level, but from recent personal, painful experience.
Fortunately, I was tough enough, and experienced enough to survive the experience.
...many, many .... are chased away forever.