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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Shiwiii in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    The opposite of JW Elders would probably be True Christians. 
  2. Haha
  3. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Actually you are completely wrong! The club is ran by an old hen, who got tired of having to listen to all the squabbles and mindless arguments in the chicken coop. She wanted to raise the 'roost' a little higher so she created this, so she could, with the help of some sheep, 'ewesdrop' on some quality human interaction. Actually, to be honest I am not entirely sure about all of this, but one thing I am 100% sure of is that it IS an old hen. TTH says so.
  4. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    It sure does my heart good.
    Yes, and I am taking diligent notes. I may be a washed-out has-been, but I will rise again!
  5. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Does it really matter who a person on here is ?  Does it matter if a person uses 10 different 'usernames' ?
    If a person can bring some info' to the table that is surely good ?  Then others can confirm or criticise that info. 
    But to waffle on about who a person is or is not, what good is that doing any of us ? 
    I have a theory that this Forum is run by JW Elders. The purpose of the forum being to study the feelings and actions of JW's, Ex-JW's, Apostates, et al.  Then those Elders report their finding to a superior body, and it may even get to the GB.  
    But this theory does me no good, nor anyone else, so I will keep it to myself  .  Coffee time. 
  6. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from César Chávez in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Does it really matter who a person on here is ?  Does it matter if a person uses 10 different 'usernames' ?
    If a person can bring some info' to the table that is surely good ?  Then others can confirm or criticise that info. 
    But to waffle on about who a person is or is not, what good is that doing any of us ? 
    I have a theory that this Forum is run by JW Elders. The purpose of the forum being to study the feelings and actions of JW's, Ex-JW's, Apostates, et al.  Then those Elders report their finding to a superior body, and it may even get to the GB.  
    But this theory does me no good, nor anyone else, so I will keep it to myself  .  Coffee time. 
  7. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to AlanF in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Arauna said:
         
    Same one who appointed your Governing Body.
    Only to you. Not to me, because I have definite knowledge of the events I've described.
    On the other hand you have nothing to dispute any of it.
    Which is what the GB did to convict Leo Greenlees of being a pedophilic, homosexual child molester.
    Your worship of the GB is so strong that even if Jesus himself told you that they are not what they claim, you wouldn't believe him. You're one those I had in mind when I mentioned self-righteous JW apologists.  
    Wow! You actually learned something!
    Except that the Old Testament relates that many miraculous events proved that Elijah and others were really appointed by God to do his bidding. What does the GB offer? Their word. And how valuable is that? The history of Watchtower leaders from before it even existed proves that not a single prediction they made came true, and that their false teachings make a pretty big pile of trash.
    So are you claiming you don't worship the Governing Body? Don't let your fellows know, or you'll be disfellowshipped for apostasy.
  8. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Thanks for the compliment - you seem to take offence pretty quickly - which indicates a bit of an ego. I am not "brought in"   ..... I butt in by my own free will..... and I do not need your permission.... lol. 
    I just wish to remind you that I do have a different viewpoint to most people here (because I am African and we call a spade a spade)  and while I do not have a debating spirit - I have never seen the need to "win" an argument - I have a viewpoint and an opinion which can enhance understanding from a different perspective - that is all.  If you see no use in it that is your choice. 
    And for your accusation about insults - I think you do pretty well at it yourself!
  9. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to AlanF in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    César Chávez said:
    No, "apologist" means someone who defends a position or organization. You're thinking of "critic". Your English is not a problem as long as you don't get self-righteous about it. I can read a bit of Spanish but would not do well writing in it.
     
    The information about Jaracz comes from several ex-Bethelites who were in a position to know. You can read Franz's Crisis of Conscience for the information about Knorr's appointment of Jaracz.
         
    Supporting evidence that would not hold up in court is what I have. It wouldn't hold up in court for the simple reason that all the GB members involved are dead, and so far, the molested boy has not come forward. But there is much circumstantial evidence.
    According to several ex-Bethelites writing on various JW related forums since the mid-1990s, shortly after Greenlees was booted out of Bethel there were a lot of rumors ciculating. One morning at breakfast GB member Martin Poetzinger mounted the dais and announced something like, "The affair of Leo Greenlees is closed!"
    From Jan. 1, 1986 Watchtower, p. 13:
    << Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. >>
    That's an obvious reference to Greenlees, and probably Chitty.
    During the 1990s I participated in several ex-JW forums. About 1994 the Society published some information about molestation victims that triggered much discussion over the next few years. Several people related stories of being inappropriately touched by Greenlees when they were 10-15 years old. Others related their personal stories of molestation at the hands of various JWs.
    When I reconnected personally with Barbara Anderson in 1997, I mentioned the ongoing discussions about Greenlees. Her response was, "I'm glad you've been publicizing what that monster did!" Then she told me what Writing Staff member Ciro Aulicino had told her in 1991-1992.
    Aulicino was the Bethel gossip accumulator, and for whatever reason, various Bethelites including GB members would tell him things that would ordinarily be called gossip. He relayed these things on to others. Around 1991 Aulicino learned that the Bethel Personnel director and GB member Daniel Sydlik had rejected an application for Bethel service by a young man. Why? Because he was the boy that Greenlees had molested, and Sydlik was afraid that the boy might tell of his molestation by Greenlees 7-8 years earlier. Aulicino was very bothered by the fact that the boy was being mistreated yet again by a GB member.
    In 1998-1999 I participated in the now-defunct H2O ex-JW forum. There appeared a Bethel official who called himself 'Friend', and was assiduously anonymous. His main concern was to turn the Society around on the blood issue. I had many private email conversations with him, and in one I asked him how he could in good conscience remain a Watchtower official, considering that Greenlees was a GB-convicted child molester and all that implied. He became angry and asked, "Why are you bringing up that old stuff?"
    In 2000 I had several conversations in person with another Watchtower official. At one point I asked him the same question I had posed to 'Friend'. He proceeded to excuse what had happened as the result of human imperfection, so I asked him about the question of "appointment by holy spirit". He opened up about various details of the Greenlees affair that I had not known about. This official was very much in a position to have certain knowledge of GB actions.In 2002 my JW parents learned of my involvement with Silentlambs. They disinherited me and in effect, disfellowshipped me from their 'family', which they informed me of by letter. I called them and spoke to my elder stepdad, finally asking him how he could in good conscience be an elder when the Greenlees affair proved that JW elders certainly are not appointed by holy spirit. He had no knowledge of Greenlees, so I explained. He didn't know what to say. Now, my parents had often entertained GB members, including Albert Schroeder and Daniel Sydlik. So I called them a couple of weeks later, and again challenged my stepdad about the Greenlees affair. This time he was knowledgeable, and did not dispute anything I said about Greenlees, which told me that he had consulted his GB friends and confirmed it all.
         
    The information on Chitty came from several ex-Bethelites. I doubt they would want to come forward publicly at this time.
    I was raised a JW, but gradually quit after the 1975 fiasco.I have submitted many talking points to AD1914.
         
    You have only to look at the last 20 years' worth of accusations against the Society, and of course, the many court cases they've either lost outright, or settled out of court on.
  10. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    There is a lot of evidence that on the whole the organization has God's blessing, in spite of the "scandals". Here are just a few examples of observations from  outsiders: "It is a rare sight for people of widely different nationalities and cultures to bond together with such warm affection, although total strangers to one another........... With such a big crowd reaching several thousands, crowd control could have been quite a nightmare. But what the authorities and others saw surprised them. Pasay City police chief Col. Bernard Yang personally dropped in at the convention area and said, “Your preparations are perfect. We of the police unit assigned here for crowd control had felt no stress. Your people are very disciplined and followed all pedestrian rules. They’re all smiles too.” .............. It appears the convention’s theme “Love Never Fails” has proved not just a matter of faith, but a matter of personal conduct for Jehovah’s Witnesses, wherever they may be, in every aspect of their life......etc.
    I do not think so many people could pretend, and make this happen, unless they were genuine, and unless they had a measure of God's blessing. In the congregations, individuals feel blessed that they have learned God's standards regarding living a clean life (not smoking, not taking drugs, morality etc.) because they were able to avoid many of the consequences and heartaches these things bring with them. They also feel confident and blessed about a good future for the earth, which many people, even religious ones, do not feel. They also feel confident and blessed about their reward, whether it be earthly or heavenly.
    Yes, Jesus Christ died for everyone.
    Personally? No I don't think that. It would be illogical to think so because there are so many who will never be given an opportunity to be in JW org. There are 8 million Witnesses, and 8 billion people on earth, so statistically it's an impossibility to reach everyone.
    No, the GB said that saying we were trying to protect pedophiles were apostate lies. Not that sexual abuse never happened.
    Wait and see 🙂. And we know Jesus's Kingdom won't be full of hypocrites.
    Yes, leave it to them.
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    It's very probable that other people know certain features, and can help validate pieces of the story. But neither you nor I have any knowledge that this is already out there somewhere, so I already knew you were bluffing. (It reminds me of the style that "Allen Smith" often utilized to bluff and bluster.)
    I'm sure that you just don't realize that the portion of this story that puts it in perspective is fairly recent. I'm sure a lot of people knew that it was TJ behind the intimidation campaign, but he clearly didn't want his name involved, so that limited the number who could tell what was happening, even from within the Service Department. From the "field" people might have known and complained about Beagle or Pierce, but how could anyone in the "field" have ever known that this was part of a campaign that included targeted areas in the Midwest. I can also name the victim, and I searched on this victim's name, a dozen different ways and although I can find the name, it is not associated (yet) in any public way with these allegations or with these other persons.
    I think that there is a very good reason that no one has ever offered these same talking points. And there is a very good reason that you can't point to them either.
    Curious spelling of condone. Reminds me of how Cesar Chavez would have pronounced "Columbus" as "Colon," where the m and n move in the other direction. The Knorr idea has been suggested before. I have my strong doubts, but I have heard it pointed out that he always surrounded himself with tall, good-looking men: The Adams family (all three brothers), Max Larson, etc. There was another widely known homosexual Branch Servant at the time in Canada, Percy Chapman, who did such a good job managing the Branch that no one seemed to care. But I think it was Knorr who finally had him removed (not that this proves anything about Knorr, one way or another).
    I have never heard of Rutherford being accused of homosexuality. I didn't search, but it was never one of the accusations floating around inside Bethel. My own table head (the Bethel Elder at the head of every morning and lunch table) worked with Rutherford and claimed that he was a drunkard, a womanizer, and a contentious blowhard, but this is the first I have ever heard of a complaint of homosexuality.
     It can be proven that at least one husband divorced his wife over all the time that his wife was spending alone with Rutherford.
    True, but he seemed to have some details I had never known anyone else to mention, but they match things I heard about before exJW websites existed, and before the Web existed. And an attending witness could actually provide a lot of useful help here.
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    I have found from my experience as a JW for more than 30 years, that although you might never get the EXACT details about something, you can be sure of one thing, and that is: if there is smoke, it's because there is, or was a fire.
  13. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    I think that several items of information in my last post cannot be found in ANY of the thousands of ex-witness websites.
    I have never mentioned the Pierce, West, Lett, Beagle incidents before, and I doubt that C.A. has publicized anything. I would be extremely surprised if you found the case of the mother who got a letter from TJ about her daughter, or even which circuits that Beagle and Pierce were sent to, and which circuits West and Lett went to. In a previous version I gave the state and even an indication of how the story came up again recently. I removed it because I realized that it involved too many specifics about a living person.
  14. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    I have the feeling this evidence could possibly be in the orgs. files that certain lawyers are trying to get their hands on.
  15. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    I don't know you and I don't know the who's who of GB members over the years, but I do have a tendency to believe you. 
    So i will now await others that have your knowledge, to weigh in with agreement or disagreement. 
    Let battle commence  
  16. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Arauna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    So much of what you say can be used against the JW Org. 
    Some people accept what JW 's say in a so called Bible Study. I know for fact that here in the UK during a study JW's  say things like 'If you don't understand that we will come back to it later, but just accept it for now'.  (Yes I've sat in on bible studies). 
    Brainwashing in JW Org "deprive students of critical thinking skills".  
    Hence when some JW's do start to think, and start to study God's word personally,  they tend to leave the Org. 
  17. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    @AlanF Haven't seen you around these parts for a while. I see the name @scholar JW pop up in a "Who's Online" box now and it always reminds me of the fact that he seemed to love a 587 debate, wherever he could find one. I always appreciated your knowledge on that topic (although, you also scare me with your evolution/atheism arguments).
    But back to the point. I did not know that you knew this much about the Lloyd Barry and Ted Jaracz situation. I was going to start avoiding using so many names but, yes, of course you are talking about the same people.
    In case you are even more aware of some of these details I would like to run another situation by you, especially since it sounds like you might be aware of details that would clarify or adjust what I think I know. I had just decided earlier today NOT to share this part of the story because of how unbelievable and contrived it might sound. But I'm going to go ahead and put it out here, and I'll take a cue from you and use names this time:
    And by the way I don't know if you know C.A. (still alive) but he is the WTS source for most of this particular story, either directly or indirectly. He is currently living in a residence just off the Bethel campus, and is not doing that well health-wise. I prefer that his name is not spelled out here, because I'm sure he would have preferred that these issues were not widely publicized in a forum such as this. I embarrassed myself in front of him on my first day at Bethel over 40 years ago, by telling him about a problem with the pay phones in the Bethel lobby. He listened and then shrugged as if he could not have cared less about it. I don't know why it still embarrasses me so much, but it doesn't matter, we got along very well from that point until even long after I left Bethel. He himself got involved in some even more embarrassing situations at Bethel, which I think you know about.
    He was in the Service Department under Miller and Jaracz, and shortly after I left Bethel, he was "promoted" to the Writing Department.
    But this story is primarily from back in 91 to 92. After the 91 article, brothers and sisters thought it was good to start telling their stories of sexual abuse to the elders, to the Society, and to professional therapists. The situation was very unnerving for the Society and for local elders too, especially when the accused were those they knew and wanted to defend in some way. There was a big new controversy over repressed memories and whether all these accusations could actually be false. Elders in California, and a couple other states were actually starting classes in "repressed memories" and trying to learn what they could about psychiatry. Victims were coming out of the woodwork.
    So Brother Jaracz who tried to keep it "anonymous" from the rest of the Service Department, talked to several of the brothers who were known to be on the rise and who had requested or were being considered for Bethel positions in the Service Department. These were Brother Pierce, West, Lett and Beagle, possibly among others. Pierce and Beagle were sent to California to handle circuits that TJ had been in, and West and Lett were assigned to Wisconsin, at least, there might have been other areas and brothers involved too.
    To give you an idea of who these people were, Beagle, Pierce and Lett were called in to work as C.O.s and D.O.s around the NYC area. (West may have been too, but I don't know what happened to him.) This is a commonly known sign that they are being watched and in close communication with the Service Department, and Bethelites "in the know" start guessing at this point that they will soon be called in to Bethel for "top jobs"
    CA, in fact, predicted when Beagle would come in (he was immediately assigned to the Service Department) and CA guessed in advance that Pierce would go straight to the Governing Body. I think he may have had some inside information.
    The two most intimidating were Beagle (six foot six) and Pierce (short but a bulldog with a smile). The intimidation campaign actually produced letters complaining about both of these persons, which was another reason for moving them to NYC. Pierce (from the Salem OR area) had a range of complaints about his "weirdness." 
    An old accusation from 1991 actually ended up revealing clearly that it was TJ behind the anonymous campaign, as he sent a letter on his own letterhead (his codes) to a sister (a victim's mother) whose daughter was sexually abused by more than one elder since she was young. The mother died, and the daughter is in possession of letters between her mother and the WTS, including at least one from TJ. And based on the content of the letters, she recalled that it was West and Lett who met with her to warn her and her mother that they would be disfellowshipped if they exposed the story.
    This part of the story, if true, would provide further confirmation that Lett and West were involved in the same intimidation. I already knew something of Pierce and Beagle because of relatives in California.
    Brother Beagle, by the way, (young) died suddenly of a heart problem shortly after he began his assignment in the Service Dept. Brother Lett, of course, is now on the Governing Body and made himself famous to this victim (and exJWs, and probably other victims) by implying that apostate lies were behind the spread of rumors about the WTS covering up child sexual abuse.
    [edited to remove some of the state locations and too many specifics about the victim and victim's family. If you copied a previous version, please reload the page to get the edited version.]
     
  18. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    What they probably say is, “put it on the shelf for now,” Of course! Intelligent people do that all the time. 
    I had 4 years of high school and three years of college under my belt when I came across JWs in the course of a summer job. My religious life was now and then attending the Presbyterian Church that my Mom belonged to, and in time, being confirmed there myself. Presbyterianism comes in several varieties—this one was in the liberal tradition and my mom would best be described as attending for the social benefits. (My dad would read the huge Sunday paper, looking forward to some solitary time as Mom herded us off. “Religion is good for kids,” he would say as we cleared out. He never set foot there himself.)
    I was indoctrinated in evolution, both from schooling and from church. Do you really think someone in that position is going to quickly accept Adam and Eve? It’s like accepting Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. However, everything else I was learning made so much sense—I loved the way the pieces fit together. It had never occurred to me that they could. Adam and Eve was the lynchpin for much of it, though. 
    It provoked, to coin a term that I would not hear until 50 years later, “cognitive dissonance.” However, cognitive dissonance is easily remedied by telling oneself that you don’t need to know everything this instant. You can always “come back to it later.” “Put it on the shelf” if something does not make sense in an otherwise compelling picture—maybe it will later. This proved to be the case with me.
    I had fifteen years of evolutionary schooling, with nothing to counter it. I believed in evolution absolutely. I had to “put it on the shelf” while I examined some extraordinarily attractive and convincing ideas and later come back to it.
  19. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to AlanF in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    The self-righteous JW apologists on this forum are pitiful. They're more than willing to condemn individuals in "the world" for wicked conduct, but just as willing to excuse similar conduct among themselves, and especially by their leaders the Governing Body. Mostly they simply deny that these charlatans did anything wrong at all. Much like Donald Trump's Republican defenders are doing in the current House impeachment hearings.
    Let's watch as some JW apologists try to excuse their leaders for the conduct described below.
    JW Insider mentioned a circuit servant in Australia who was removed and reassigned in the early 1950s. This was Theodore Jaracz, who later became a GB member (according to Raymond Franz he was appointed by Nathan Knorr as a slap in the face to the other GB members who had ousted Knorr from power; he was known for being unreasonably harsh). Jaracz eventually worked his way into the de facto position of 'supreme GB member' by force of personality, essentially replacing Fred Franz and becoming head of the Service Department. As such, and because of his temperament, he was feared and hated by many lower-order Bethelites. There is very good evidence that Knorr had removed Jaracz as a circuit servant in Australia for some sort of sexual misconduct with a minor(s), which is a smoking gun for his attempts to hide all mention of child sexual abuse from the JW rank and file, both in print and in dealings that appointed officials such as Circuit and District Overseers had with elders and the rank and file. If Jaracz was a child molestor 40 years earlier, it was a good bet that he retained a tendency to excuse them in the 1990s.
    Jaracz was at odds with GB member Lloyd Barry, who by all accounts was a decent man.
    As for other GB members, by far the worst I know of was Leo Greenlees, who was removed from the GB in late 1984 for sexually molesting a 10-year-old boy. The parents reported the molestation to the Society, and eventually the GB met as a judicial committee to deal with the accusation. They found Greenlees guilty, but judged him repentant, and assigned him to be a special pioneer, which entitled him to the usual SP stipend. This was obviously self-serving, since to expose Greenlees' misconduct to the public would have been fatal to the JW organization. After all, a homosexual pedophile does not develop those proclivities at age 72, but has been practicing such things since he was a young man, and Jehovah God would not anoint a homosexual pedophile as an elder, much less as a GB member. Furthermore, the Ray Franz incident was fresh in the GB's minds, and Franz had recently published "Crisis of Concience", and likely the GB wanted to take no chances of a repeat with Leo Greenlees. So they avoided disfellowshipping him and sent him off with a stipend.
    This situation with Leo Greenlees is positive proof that "Jehovah God" has nothing to do with the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses.
    Another GB member wicked by JW standards was Ewart Chitty, who in the early 1980s was removed from the GB and reassigned to a lower level position in the UK Bethel. Chitty was, in modern parlance, very "flaming" (i.e., exhibited strongly stereotyped homosexual behavior). He seemed to prefer young men as roomates. Apparently there were accusations of inappropriate behavior by several young Bethelites, which caused his demise.
    Once again we see behavior by a GB member entirely inconsistent with the Society's doctrine that elders and GB members are "appointed by holy spirit".
    There is even evidence that Nathan Knorr was a closet homosexual. He did not marry until he was 48 years old, and his wife is reported to have told close friends that their marriage was never consummated. Knorr was obsessed with telling young men, especially new Bethelites, to avoid masturbation, which invokes clear shades of "methinks thou dost protest too much". And of course, his failure to remove Theodore Jaracz in the early 1950s as a Watchtower official but reassigning him to a lower position in the WTS organization strongly indicates that Knorr was soft on child sexual abuse.
    Many Watchtower officials have traditionally been soft on child molestation. In the mid-1940s my own mother, in her mid-teens, was hit on by at least one prominent WTS official much her senior.
     
  20. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    ...  and now Shepherd book 2019
    CAUTIONS BEFORE RECOMMENDING CERTAIN BROTHERS
    6. Elders should make sure they have full and complete information regarding the brothers they intend to recommend to the circuit overseer, especially those in the following circumstances.
    7. Previously Reproved, Disfellowshipped, or Disassociated: If he was reproved within the past three years or reinstated within the past five years, please provide the following information: What was the offense? In a case of reproof, did the judicial committee make an announcement? In a case of disfellowshipping or disassociation, what is the date of reinstatement? When were the last restrictions lifted? Are you aware of his having been reproved, disfellowshipped, or disassociated on any other occasions? What convinces you that he has lived down his past wrongdoing and that others now view him as a good example? If the wrongdoing took place in another congregation, how would that congregation view his appointment? Recommending him prematurely could minimize the seriousness of wrongdoing in his own eyes and in the eyes of others. It could also disturb those who still have his wrongdoing fresh in their memories.
    8. Guilty of Adultery in the Past: When did the adultery occur? Was he reproved or disfellowshipped? If he was reproved, was an announcement made? Did the innocent mate reject him? How do you know this? If he divorced and remarried, did he marry the individual with whom he committed adultery? Is there evidence that he schemed to put away his former mate or that he pressured her to accept a divorce? Did the adultery break up the marriage of the other person? How were others affected by his adultery? Is the innocent mate still alive? Did the innocent mate remarry? What convinces you that he has lived down his past wrongdoing and is now viewed with respect? If the wrongdoing took place in another congregation, how would that congregation view his appointment?-See 12:10-12. CHAPTER 8 "SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD" APPOINTMENT AND DELETION OF ELDERS AND MINISTERIAL SERVANTS
    9. Separated or Unscripturally Divorced: Who is primarily to blame for the marital problems? What were the circumstances surrounding the separation or divorce? Who was responsible for the separation, or who pursued the divorce? Did both sign the decree or in some other way indicate their agreement? How long ago did the separation or divorce occur? What is the brother doing to try to reconcile? Is his mate unwilling to cooperate with his efforts? If so, why? How is his situation viewed by the congregations involved? How do the elders of the mate's congregation feel about the brother? When separation and divorce are involved, there may be deficiencies on the part of one or both mates that make it necessary to limit special privileges because one or both mates may not be viewed as exemplary.-w00 12/15 pp. 28-29; /vs pp. 250-251.
    10. Served as an Elder or a Ministerial Servant in the Past: With what congregation did he previously serve, and when did he stop serving? Why did he stop serving? What makes his circumstances different now? What progress has he made since he stopped serving? If he stopped serving in another congregation, how would that congregation view his reappointment? If he previously served as an elder and was not guilty of gross wrongdoing, it may not be necessary for him now to serve first as a ministerial servant, depending on the length of time since he stopped serving as an elder.-See 13:8.
  21. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    @Arauna - "Jehovah judges perfectly because he understands perfectly.  BUT you are twisting the facts:
    It is PEOPLE here on the forum who have appointed themselves as judges and definitely are not perfect judges. 
    People here on this forum try to make JWs into monsters.... when the real monsters who are exploiting children are using the worldly system to do this.  The worldly legal system is becoming less and less accountable and favoring the rich and powerful (and certain favoured minorities) to do as they please."
    Yes, the world is full of atrocities and horrors, but the world does not offer eternal life – the organization does.  Shouldn’t one’s focus be on how that will occur through an organization that is marked by some of the same atrocities found in the world?
    @Srecko Sostar - “I can assume that all such individuals among the elders, who are in the minority, experience very serious, conflicting turmoil. For those elders who are very sensitive by nature, all that they may face can be too much. For such elders, who begin to perceive the paradox that arises between truth, justice, Jesus' teaching, on the one hand, and the corporate governance of that power, the power that human influences and positions (hierarchies) have of things, can end up very bad for themselves. Even in suicide.”
    @4Jah2me - "So get real, wake up, and stop looking for excuses in the outside Devil's world.
    Remember scripture, Don't tell your brother he has a straw in his eye, when you have a rafter in yours. = JW Org,  Don't say how wicked the outside world is when the inside of JW Org is just as wicked." 
    How will the Kingdom arrive, through the choices the world makes, or the choices each anointed one makes? John 17:17; Rev 14;5   The anointed leaders of the org. easily judge their brothers and sisters in Christ.  The GB are not apostles, but uninspired men who “assume” they are allowed to make that decision.  They have given the elders the swift ability to mark them and all who question their teachings, as spiritually “dead” for not conforming to their own bad choices, or for turning directly to Christ who can offer one eternal life.  Micah 3:5; John 16:2; Rev 13:15
    This is a more serious accusation than one losing their physical life at the hands of a corrupt worldly system. 
    “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.” John 6:63
    The words the GB speak, are not full of life.  Their historical record of bad choices proves it.   Col 2:8  God doesn't erase their mistakes made while leading the flock, unless they repent and turn around.  Which they haven't.  Jer 23:32
     
     
     
     
  22. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Sorry. Certain peculiar patterns and personalities emerge. I don’t really think that you are him. I do talk too much, and my wife IS getting impatient about that job I promised to do.
  23. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Shiwiii in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Quote @Arauna I disagree with the assumption that we can understand the mind of these children rapists  ..... they are so Satanistic.... we cannot imagine the lengths these people will go to and how far beyond a conscience they are..... and they are amongst us ..... and sometimes they pretend to be our moral leaders in society. 
    Yes, and they are in the JW Org............... and YOU say 'we cannot understand the mind of these child rapists'.... So how can the Elders hide them in the JW Org, and how can the Elders say that these rapists are repentant ?     Remember YOU said we cannot understand the mind of these children rapists. They are so Satanistic... 
    So get real, wake up, and stop looking for excuses in the outside Devil's world.
    Remember scripture, Don't tell your brother he has a straw in his eye, when you have a rafter in yours. = JW Org,  Don't say how wicked the outside world is when the inside of JW Org is just as wicked. 
     
    Someone must vote in your GB members, and it sure enough cannot be God or Jesus Christ because they would make better choices..... Someone must vote in the Elders, and I don't think it has anything to do with holy spirit because we can see how wicked many elders have been and still are.... So your Org must have some sort of voting system, which of course they pretend involves Christ. 
  24. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    Why ? Well I think scripture tells us to examine all things. And if we are 'spiritual' people  we will examine the spiritual and the physical.  CSA is just one item to look at. Shunning is another. Blood is another. Doctrine another. 
    I am wishing for an Organisation through which I can serve God properly.  I am neither for or against JW Org.  Unfortunately whilst following this forum i have found out much that I am unhappy with about JW Org. Much that tells me that God and Christ cannot be happy with this Organisation. I have also noted that some JW's on here are totally blind to any faults in the Org, and i think that is why 'those in opposition' have to 'shout so loudly'. 
    Regarding only the CSA, it is Earth wide in the Org, and will probably take years to 'sort out', hence it may be the ruination of the Org. The GB seem to be fighting it every step of the way, which makes them look even more guilty IMO. And here in UK  there is talk of another investigation, this time by the I.I. C. S. A.  I haven't heard any follow up on this though. 
     But after enough disfellowshippings over such things, the rules had to be set in stone.)
    One has to wonder how many people were thrown to the wind, how many people were stumbled. How many may have become depressed, spiritually lost, or even committed suicide, 
  25. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    .... if they were long enough in the past....
    19. If it comes to light or an appointed brother confesses that he has committed a disfellowshipping offense years in the past: The body of elders may determine he can continue to serve if the following is true:The immorality or other serious wrongdoing occurred more than a few years ago,and he is genuinely repentant,recognizing that he should have come forward immediately when he sinned. (Perhaps he has even confessed to his sin, seeking help with his guilty conscience.)He has been serving faithfully for many years, has evidence of God’s blessing, and has the respect of the congregation. 20. If the sin occurred before he was appointed as an elder or a ministerial servant,the elders will need to take into consideration the fact that he should have mentioned this possible impediment to his being qualified when elders interviewed him just prior to announcing his appointment. Moreover, the nature of the sin may reflect greatly on his qualifications to serve.For example,the sin may involve past child abuse,and this would likely disqualify him for many years.—w971/1pp.26-29;w77pp.697-698.
    38 “Shepherd the Flock of God”—1Peter5:2
    21. If the wrong doing occurred within the past few years while he was serving as an elder or a ministerial servant, he is disqualified from serving as such, not being“free from accusation.”(1Tim.3:2,10;Titus1: 6,7)Depending on the circumstances,the situation may also need to be handled by a judicial committee. —See5:43-44. 
    Shepherd book 2012
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