Patiently waiting for Truth

Quote  " They don’t look in the rear view mirror too much. "   Yes the two reasons the GB don't look in the  rear view mirror too much are these. 1. They are frightened to see how much damage they have done to people. 2. Their guilt would overpower them and their conscience would make them step  down. 

🙂  How can I not love you, even though you continue to drink (maybe reluctantly at times) the GB's koolaid?  Acts 20:29,30; James 1:21
 
 
 
 

I check their bodies for tread marks daily. Sometimes I have to rub out a few.
I do, too. Few of them are, however. They are not encouraged to be. They are encouraged to align themselves with, “If you know what is true, there is no reason to examine what is falsehood.” There is a serious downside to this counsel, however.
One thing that I greatly admire about the GB is that they go where they are convinced the Bible tells them to go, and they don’t care if there is a downside or not. I do not believe they lay this “follow truth, and ignore falsehood” policy only upon us. I think that they follow it themselves, and look at controversy no more than is absolutely necessary, in accord with Jesus’ “No man at the plow who keeps looking at the things behind is well suited for the kingdom of God,” as modified by Russell into: “If you stop to kick every dog that barks at you, you’ll never get very far.”
They don’t look in the rear view mirror too much. They are thus the exact opposite of crusaders against them, in fact, pundits and policy makers in general, who ONLY look in the rear view mirror, skewering the doers as they do nothing themselves, “holding people accountable,” making them “take responsibility,” but offering nothing positive beyond a new law or two, which the scoundrels immediately find ways to sidestep.
Yes. I made this point to a couple of elders who were trying to dissuade me from “engaging with apostates.” I am not engaging them, I replied, at least not for their own sakes. It is almost always a lost cause engaging them for their own sakes, I have found (somewhat to my dismay). Yet, “apostates” have succeeded in catching the ear of major media. The latter run prominent—even front page—articles against Witnesses, which we may not read, but everyone else does. In pushing back at these articles, you necessarily cross paths with these “apostates,” and in doing so, some perceptions will change. You get a better feel for them. They still remain the enemy, but you get to appreciate how some became so. You have to know where the enemy is coming from. It is the first rule of any military strategy. It is the first rule of any legal strategy, as well. Could it be that when Witness attorneys represent them in court, they have not acquainted themselves with “apostate” reasoning? They are extremely poor attorneys if that is the case. 
The two brothers had not read the barrage of articles, or even one of them, probably, and were inclined to think that what was out there was inconsequential, the product of scurrilous rag sheets. How about the New York Times and the Washington Post? I said. I don’t think that I would be able to desist kicking back at this point. I know how to answer this stuff, or at least I think I know. Moreover, I see that such attacks are almost never answered—certainly not effectively, and usually, not at all. 
I have taken on the role of “apologist” for Jehovah’s Witnesses, and have been put down before on that account. But I respond with “apologist” being derived from “apologia,” which means “speaking in defense.” Those who dismiss Christian apologists, therefore, are simply bullies who think that they should not have a defense.
As an apologist, I do not tell the GB what they are doing wrong. Nor do I know. There are many things that I don’t like, but that does not mean that remedying them to suit myself would improve matters. Maybe it would do just the opposite. I reflect that that there IS no other faith that incorporates the dozen-or-so essential Bible truths that JWI has pointed to—much less anyone that obeys the direction to preach them. Maybe true faith can only exist within a hostile world the way that it IS existing. That is why I hesitate to insist, and often even mention, my “solutions.” They might not be solutions at all.
If I counted my online time, then easily I have been special pioneering for years. But I don’t count it because the Witness organization can hardly be said to encourage it. And for the most part, when brothers think that they will witness online, the effect is horrible, imo. Scrupulously avoiding any matters of controversy, jettisoning anyone who brings them up, they say: “Do you wonder what is the truth about hell?” The answer is NO! Religious people do not wonder, and non-religious people do not care. 
I would be happy if there was not so much dissuasion to take on the “villains.” Villains are what make the show interesting—ask any TV or movie producer. I would not like to see a call to arms to battle the villains, for the villains are relentless, their gripes are unending, and many are slimy—the counsel to steer clear is hardly unwise. But I would like to see the yellow light given should anyone choose to kick back at the points these guys make.
The “even the tiniest bit of poison that we would never want to drink” is not really consistent with the fact that vaccines (and homeopathy, in a different way) operate on this very principle: expose one to just a little bit of the sickness so that when it is encountered later in the wild, immunity will have developed. Instead, we have the ridiculous situation of youngsters falling for the oldest foible of human nature—doing something because they have been advised not to. Sooner or later, they chance upon some “apostate” literature or other material. When they do, and out of curiosity give it a scan, they are floored—not because it is so overwhelmingly persuasive, but because they are totally unprepared for it. They may be seriously stumbled, and from there the situation worsens. The adults who should be able to help them cannot—because they have no idea what is there themselves. All they can say is, “Don’t read that stuff!” Trust me, opponents are very good at exploiting those words. “See?” they say. “They want to make sure your blinders remain firmly in place.”
That’s why my hero in this regard is @Anna. Long ago, she declared that she would keep abreast of “apostate” thinking so that she would be able to help her teenaged son should he ever come across and be stumbled at their attacks. It only sweetens the story that (last I heard) the kid (he can’t be a kid anymore) is happily pioneering and wondering why his mom is hanging out with all those crazies on the internet.
Nor would I say, from this distance, that opposing the villains has harmed her spiritually. It certainly has not done that with me. Quite the opposite. Villains offer a contrast to what is not villainous, and many things are more clearly appreciated for their contrast. “Drink this gloop,” the doctor says. “Never mind if it tastes like you-know-what. It will produce the contrast we need so that we can more readily appraise your health.”
Case in point coming up, after I dodge my wife. She wants me to do some maintenance around the house. What is wrong with that woman? Can’t she see I am busy correcting someone who is wrong on the internet?
 

Actually, @4Jah2me and @Witness are right in this case.
*** w09 10/15 p. 5 par. 10 “Be Aglow With the Spirit” ***
. . . the “other sheep” are not part of the composite body of Christ . . . .
And @Witness is right that this is a difference between the Watchtower teaching and the "theology" that Allen Smith has claimed to believe. And if Allen Smith thought this was right you can best believe that it will also be defended to the nth degree by: @Bogdan11 @John H Slaughter @Alithís Gnosis @DespicableME, @alvi languore insanabili @Grey Reformer @Tom Henry etc., etc., etc.

I think that such cases will be very rare based on the new processes. As much as I am concerned about how closely elders seem to accept WTS processes as "law" it's good when these rules have been corrected and we can expect them to be followed to the letter.

This is what I meant 😀 and not only with regard to CSA but anything that we feel is not right.
I need to edit this: not just anything we feel is not right, but that is actually not right scripturally.

The motive should not matter, if the charges are truthful. The difference in motive will sometimes show up in the level of carefulness and honesty. So badly motivated persons will often make claims that are not going to be useful as "constructive." They may even backfire in a court of law and discredit the usefulness and value of claims that could have otherwise been constructive.
We often use a scripture that we apply to the congregation, when it actually appears to have more of an application to "secular" authorities:
(Leviticus 5:1) . . .“‘If someone sins because he has heard a public call to testify and he is a witness or has seen or learned about it and he does not report it, then he will answer for his error."
So, there is precedent for bringing to light those activities that "love" the darkness.

This is a good point. I agree with it. When people keep talking about child sexual abuse and it becomes the big topic in the news, then it is easy to kind of impose child sexual abuse as the intended meaning even when we hear the term child abuse, which does not necessarily imply sexual abuse. 

I think this brings us back to 'serving God as ruler rather than men'.  I would also think it should be possible to make known the name of a pedophile without naming the victims. And I think it is just an excuse for the GB / JW Org. 
To 'look after 'widows and orphans', to look after all children, the names and locations of all pedophiles should be made known, not only internally but to the world. Arauna says, we cannot know the minds of such ones. That they are Satanic. 
I say, that all pedophiles should carry their burden continuously in this old system of things. Of course they should be allowed into Kingdom Halls, and allowed to study God's word,  but only on the understanding that they are known to all. Unless of course you want the GB and JW Org in deeper trouble. 

If people are not satisfied with people who taking a lead, who rule, governing over them and their life, because they have double standards and twisting justice in "worldly system", they have chance to replace them by voting. And so on until they find the best people world can offer.
Of course! Voting is the answer! How’s that working out these days?
The Atlantic has run a (disapproving) article on populists—the winners of popular elections
“Right now, the four most populous democracies in the world are ruled by populists: Narendra Modi in India, Donald Trump in the United States, Joko Widodo in Indonesia, and Bolsonaro in Brazil.”
I could be wrong, but I suspect you will not be happy with such voting outcomes. 
“According to our research, populist governments have deepened corruption, eroded individual rights, and inflicted serious damage on democratic institutions,” read the Atlantic banner, as they tallied up 46 of such populist winners.
Your criticism is no more than your humanism speaking. You pull out all stops to slam JWs. It is not as though you have anything better to offer. What you have is considerably worse.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/hard-data-populism-bolsonaro-trump/578878/
 

I think @Arauna explained this part of subject how one part of society that including JW members are not willing to be proactive. And that also contribute to general situation.
I agree with many what Arauna described in her comment. And i am also "broken" with so much suffer and bad things that some people and especially children going through. 
It is not about "twisting facts". If people are not satisfied with people who taking a lead, who rule, governing over them and their life, because they have double standards and twisting justice in "worldly system", they have chance to replace them by voting. And so on until they find the best people world can offer. JW not want to be "proactive" in this matter. That is their right to have such stand. But than, why to criticize system. System, "worldly", is mirror of people in general.
JW system is also mirror of people that living and working and contributing to it as such. In general, JW people making effort to be good, but WT Society also have internal "system" that is corruptible and contribute to JW world, as also to worldly world, to be bad place for some individuals (victims).   

You were the one making the statement without any evidence I did not make any statement that they were clean or not, what matters is that the GB refused to give evidence clean or not. Or should we recap what Garry lush mentioned on his statement or what Geffry Jackson said in case 29 thanks to them I see where the GB stands. I'm sure U will come up with some incredible amusing excuse but what it was said has lots of repurcussions to the point that my wife and I can not believe another word that comes from them.

@Arauna How do you actually know that the GB members  " never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), " ? 
There is it seems a massive data base of Child Sexual Abuse accusations hidden within the Org. And do you have all that information, so that you know who is and who isn't on that list ?  Do you know why the GB are holding back that list ? 
In Australia the brothers must have handed over their list of names about CSA accusations.
Here in the UK, after court action, the brothers handed over their list of CSA accusation.
But in the USA the GB and /or their lawyers are refusing to hand over their information ? 
Someone will scream 'but the laws are different in USA'. It would make no difference if the laws are different in USA,   IF the GB would act on the scripture 'We must obey God as ruler, rather than men'. 
Seems quite funny that the GB /Org tells people to disobey laws of man when it involves some things, such as joining the armed forces, but yet the GB hides behind laws when it suits them. 
@Srecko Sostar  Thank you, but did you actually read ALL of that ?  Sorry i only read bits. Too much for me. 
 
. 
 

It's quite possible you are right about the current eight old men who may have never personally touched a child (in an abusive way). It's my impression that they are also quite innocent of any such issues.
But I don't think you can ever say that anyone in such a position as in the GB cannot comprehend such wickedness in others. They have dealt with a lot in their lives and they have been forced to deal with the topic even if they didn't want to.
And not to deal in gossip, but I can speak almost positively about the following situation, at least I can speak for the trustworthiness of the brothers who gave me the information. What I heard about several years ago from a friend in Writing, were things I talked about before the ARC, and they came up again from another brother after I discussed the ongoing ARC with him.
It actually started with two members of the Governing Body, who seemed not to want to speak to each other. Both became GB members in 1974 and this issue was visible during the time I worked around them. One had previously been assigned to a leading position for the Branch in Australia and the other had previously been assigned to work in Japan. The brother assigned to Australia was recalled suddenly and demoted to become a Circuit Overseer in the Midwest in the United States. After many years of rebuilding his reputation, through Circuit then District work, he finally was asked to join the Governing Body in New York. The explanation I was given was that the demotion was punishment for being involved in accusations of child sexual abuse. (I never knew if the accusations had been in Australia, the USA, or both, but a later separate rumor had tied him to a case in the United States through a Witness doctor.) At any rate, by 1974, this issue was considered to have been from long enough in his past for his appointment to the GB.
By 1991 one of the GB members was heading the Writing Dept, and the once-accused GB member was heading the Service Dept. You probably already know that the October 8 1991 Awake! had an article on Child Sexual Abuse that included "worldly" therapy as a possible solution for some victims, and this head of the Service Dept hated the article. (For that matter it's probably true that most members of the Governing Body apparently thought that worldly psychotherapy was little more than something worldly or even satanic.) But by now, there were Witness psychotherapists and psychiatrists, and they appreciated the article. Mostly the article was appreciated by CSA victims, and tons of letters of appreciation came in. For an April 1992 follow up, the head of Writing decided to print some excerpts from some of those letters of appreciation and the head of Service actually "stopped the presses" to have the article replaced while the head of Writing was out of the country. The head of Service didn't get his way; presses started up again, and you can read the article in the April 8 1992 Awake!.
But, as head of the Service Department, he sent out several of the most well known Circuit and District Overseers on a campaign in 1992 to speak with abuse victims to let them know they should never reveal anything about their abusers and their abuse, or they could be disfellowshipped.
One of those men in the intimidation campaign is now on the Governing Body.
You can take these are merely unsubstantiated rumors, and I admit that I have no evidence to substantiate them. I can only speak to the honesty and track record of the brothers who told me about them.
 

Sorta like running from an angry bear.
You do not have to be faster than the bear.
You just have to be faster than your fat friend.

You may proceed.
The requirements are not high. You must simply make sure that you are not the most unpleasant person here. The mere fact that you raised the above two points guarantees that you will not be.

You are allowed to respond to criticism any way you want as long as you are civil and not rude.

I am ashamed to admit that you have many irrefutable points in you above post.  I cannot refute any of them,
EXCEPT your quote, posted here on this post..
FACTS about such things are NATURALLY abusive and insulting to the agenda driven.
But, willy-nilly ... they are still facts.

But the skit is British 😀

What seems to have been proven in courts is that Elders deliberately hid the information from congregants, hence elders or others could continue to commit CSA offences,  and also that elders that had committed CSA WERE moved from one congregation to another. Those things HAVE been proven in court cases. So your defence of the GB Org is not so true. 

@Arauna How do you actually know that the GB members  " never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), " ? 
There is it seems a massive data base of Child Sexual Abuse accusations hidden within the Org. And do you have all that information, so that you know who is and who isn't on that list ?  Do you know why the GB are holding back that list ? 
In Australia the brothers must have handed over their list of names about CSA accusations.
Here in the UK, after court action, the brothers handed over their list of CSA accusation.
But in the USA the GB and /or their lawyers are refusing to hand over their information ? 
Someone will scream 'but the laws are different in USA'. It would make no difference if the laws are different in USA,   IF the GB would act on the scripture 'We must obey God as ruler, rather than men'. 
Seems quite funny that the GB /Org tells people to disobey laws of man when it involves some things, such as joining the armed forces, but yet the GB hides behind laws when it suits them. 
@Srecko Sostar  Thank you, but did you actually read ALL of that ?  Sorry i only read bits. Too much for me. 
 
. 
 

BUT the GB and JW Org are supposed to be 'No part of that world'  And are supposed to keep themselves 'Without spot from the world'  So why you and others are comparing the GB and it's Org to the world all the time, makes no sense.  
Add to that, that JW's WERE TOLD NOT TO REPORT TO THE POLICE OR OUTSIDE AUTHORITIES. The excuse used being that it would bring shame on Jehovah.   
Add to that THE TWO WITNESS RULE which encouraged Elders to call Victims liars. 
Add to that the Shunning which JW Victims were frightened of.  
Now you just might open your eyes and see why the GB / Elders / JW Org are SO guilty. 

You are copying Arauna. You are doubling backwards to compare the GB and it's Org to the world which belongs to the Devil. 
You should be comparing the GB and the Org to God's standards. 
Back in the times of Israel the surrounding nations were offering their children in the fire to Molech. (This has been mentioned by people on here before.) Then it seems the Israelites also started offering their children in the fire to Molech. How did God feel about that ? Did God say, 'Oh well the Israelites  are not burning as many children as the other nations so it doesn't matter ' No I think not. God judged His people on His standards. 
Quote from 
w84 10/1 pp. 14-19 Remain “Without Spot From the World” “The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.”—JAMES 1:27.
2 “The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this,” wrote the disciple James, “to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.” Another rendition is: “Pure, unspoilt religion, in the eyes of God our Father is this: coming to the help of orphans and widows when they need it, and keeping oneself uncontaminated by the world.”—James 1:27, The Jerusalem Bible.
I quote you "Since the GB stay away from world influence, I don’t see where they think the same as the world."
The GB deliberately tell lies, and they use dishonest lawyers in courts. They jump ahead of any spiritual guidance from God or Christ and make stupid statements such as the 'overlapping generations'. the two witness rule concerning child sexual abuse, a rule concerning accusing adults of different sexes of committing fornication if they happen to be in the same house overnight, funnily enough it doesn't apply to adults of the same sex, bit behind the times there..   Telling the anointed not to think about contacting each other around the earth (when we know the anointed are the Body of Christ)... And don't even think about mentioning some of the stupid videos they make... And now a court appearance it seems. Well they do seem to like being in front of the camera.  
As for you commenting and being blunt. Do it. As long as you are not abusive and not too insulting to people  
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Did i ever get a reply as to what will actually happen in these court cases ?  Are the GB members liable to get fined ?
Is there a possibility of a prison sentence for each one ? 
 Looking back when the GB were playing games between the CCJW and WT Soc, basically sending letters to them selves, and the courts were not too happy about the wasted time etc. Fines imposed but then scrapped. So i would think the GB are not in favour with any of the courts. But things drag out so long so probs no result until next summer. 
 

I can appreciate your frankness and passion. At what point did you begin to see the GB as perfect? Were the apostles perfect? Please submit an instance where Jesus removed the original sin from the apostles.
Since the GB stay away from world influence, I don’t see where they think the same as the world.
Now, is there a difference between God's law and secular law that not only the GB would need to address and Elders as well? However, don't you think local elders would be more aware of current government laws?
Since I’m new to this forum and I as you have been monitoring this website for a long time, and to avoid my personal opinion not to be challenging to others, I will not argue, Watchtower policy or their bylaws since it appears this kind of debate can only be expressed by those that have a grievance. It appears for some, having to express an opinion by comments or a downvote can have consequences. I don’t believe I’m allowed to respond to such criticism unless I can get a green light from the website owner. I will wait to receive the rules of engagement and proper protocol with a point of order. Therefore, I yield that to you, sorry.
For now if you don’t mind, I will remain natural since I don’t wish these 2 post to be my last. What I agree with, even governments hide wrongdoings. Why isn’t society being more proactive in holding governments accountable just like the institutions?

When Jehovah witness visit your home (1).mp4