Patiently waiting for Truth

Temper temper Rambo. Satan uses you well. 

Arauna, JWs here on this forum are not in unity, imagine the disunity earth wide.  Mr Rando and Sower of Seed both differ from each other and from the Watchtower / GB teachings, but they both seem to be JWs. 

Whilst I'm not involved in this argument and I'm not 'taking sides' either.  What it does prove to me is, that a True Anointed remnant are needed to guide the 'other sheep' that are 'not of that fold'.  
John 10 : 16 Berean Study Bible
I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd.
Zechariah 8:23  Berean Study Bible
This is what the LORD of Hosts says: “In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue will tightly grasp the robe of a Jew, saying, ‘Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’ ”
Most non anointed ordinary humans do NOT have multi lingeral education. And do NOT read Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. So most non anointed ordinary humans that want to be 'other sheep' and want to be the 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' have to rely on other humans (the JEW) to not only translate the Holy Scriptures properly, but to aslo interpret those Scriptures properly. 
Whilst both of you post lots of information and 'back it up with scripture', you are only two of thousands that have their own opinion. My personal opinion is that neither of you are anointed. The big difference seems to be that @Witness makes statements and shows some spiritual direction (rightly or wrongly), @Dmitar just seems to ask questions but gives no direction. 
There is one thing that does bother me however. If the Judgement / Armageddon is to happen within, lets say,  20 years, and if all humans on earth at that time will be judged as to be allowed to live or condemned to death. To make it right for those people then there has to be an easily recognisable way of serving God through Christ. At this moment in time I cannnot see any recognisable 'religion' to be part of. I cannot see anyone that represnts the JEW. Hence I remain Patiently Waiting for Truth.
 

But look at that picture. DOOM and GLOOM, FEAR mongering.  The Watchtower way. 
JWs have always used this approach. Physical distruction wipes out everything and everyone in it's path.
Almighty God and Jesus Christ do not act that way. Each indivdual will be judged as such, an individual. 
God's message through Christ should be taught with love, not fear. 
 
 

And who might that be ? Certainly NOT Jehovah's Witnesses.  The JW org hides Pedophiles within.
The GB and their lawyers have a Database which was started in 1979 and must be still building up. A Database of Pedophiles in the USA section of JW Org. The GB will not hand over that Database to the Superior Authorities. So the sins and crimes of those wicked ones remain on the shoulders of the GB. In fact it might even include the GB. 
I do hope you are NOT encouraging people to join that wicked JW Org. That Org is immoral and seems to encourage Child Sexual Abuse by not telling the congregations who those Pedophiles are. 
Quite strange that you admit that the Elders kept your abuse hidden, so they encouraged your ex-husband to continue abusing you. BUT you still try to encourage other people into that situation. Now that is surely wicked, to encourage people into an unsafe immoral organisation. 

You seem to be judging your own deeds.
Your own words. You judging your Elders. BUT you are just one of thousands that have been abused and mistreated in that immoral JW org.
 
Unfortunately you are blind, and possibly because you want to be blind. How can such a wicked organisation, full of sexual abuse, lies and deciet, be used by God or Christ ? 
Your GB even 'beat their fellow slaves'.  That GB have exalted themselves above all the anointed. Even to the point of telling those Anointed not to meet together. The GB tell the Anointed that they 'would be working against the Holy Spirit'.  Whereas Jesus told the Anointed to gather together and that HE would be amongst them. 
Jesus does not need my help of course, but it is my duty of Christian conscience to warn people of the wickedness and immorality and danger of that JW org. 
 

I'll just sit on the edge of this school playground and watch the children fight.   It's good for a laugh. 

As I lay here on the floor on a coiled rope carpet of many colors, with my chin resting on my dog dish and staring across to the iPhone resting at an angle against the wall, I often visualize Dmitar as a very small person continually waving his arms and saying “you want to fight, you want to fight?…… I can beat any man in the room!“, And then I realize that each morning someone probably uses him to soak up a coffee spill.

I'll just sit on the edge of this school playground and watch the children fight.   It's good for a laugh. 

I'll just sit on the edge of this school playground and watch the children fight.   It's good for a laugh. 

His claim about our "secret" communication is absurd. This could be due to some kind of paranoia, misinterpreted events on the forum or simply throwing a “hook”.
As you can see, I did not react to his statement because it is meaningless, and if anyone wants to believe in stupidity, good luck to him.  

I suspect you already knew that @Srecko Sostar never called on me in any way. This is something you apparently just made up when you stated it as fact under another topic/thread.  But just in case you weren't aware, I thought I'd let you know. It will say a lot about your motives, if you continue to repeat this unfounded and false idea.

But look at that picture. DOOM and GLOOM, FEAR mongering.  The Watchtower way. 
JWs have always used this approach. Physical distruction wipes out everything and everyone in it's path.
Almighty God and Jesus Christ do not act that way. Each indivdual will be judged as such, an individual. 
God's message through Christ should be taught with love, not fear. 
 
 

You seem to be judging your own deeds.
Your own words. You judging your Elders. BUT you are just one of thousands that have been abused and mistreated in that immoral JW org.
 
Unfortunately you are blind, and possibly because you want to be blind. How can such a wicked organisation, full of sexual abuse, lies and deciet, be used by God or Christ ? 
Your GB even 'beat their fellow slaves'.  That GB have exalted themselves above all the anointed. Even to the point of telling those Anointed not to meet together. The GB tell the Anointed that they 'would be working against the Holy Spirit'.  Whereas Jesus told the Anointed to gather together and that HE would be amongst them. 
Jesus does not need my help of course, but it is my duty of Christian conscience to warn people of the wickedness and immorality and danger of that JW org. 
 

These comments are tools used by the GB to instill fear, where fear should not exist.  It is absolutely a pervasive fallacy to -
#1 – compare an uninspired GB to Moses, personally chosen by God as a prophet. 
#2 – claim that God’s representatives are the GB, when false prophets (which means they have predicted false dates and doctrine revealed as a lie…“old light”/”new light”) were prophesied to come against the “elect” in the last days. (Matt 24:24)  There were many false prophets in the nation of Israel, and if the governing leaders want to make the comparison of that ancient nation to themselves, why would the Wt., that holds anointed “Israel”, concentrate on the world’s religions and its false prophets, and not on the nation of “Israel”?  The comparison to yesterday’s Israel and today’s spiritual “Israel”, should hold in all cases; but it doesn’t, because, Wt.’s leaders are the false prophets.    (Matt 24:24,25; 7:15-20; Acts 20:28-31; 1 Tim 4:1; Col 2:8; Rev 13:11,12,15)
 #3 – to use the example of Korah against “apostates”
What was Korah rebelling against?
 Moses also told Korah, “Now listen, Levites! 9 Isn’t it enough for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the Israelite community to bring you near to himself, to perform the work at the Lord’s tabernacle, and to stand before the community to minister to them? 10 He has brought you near, and all your fellow Levites who are with you, but you are pursuing the priesthood as well. 11 Therefore, it is you and all your followers who have conspired against the Lord! As for Aaron, who is he that you should complain about him?”  Num 16
Most apostates are rebelling against false teachings, separation of families, child abuse, elder abuse by the Wt. securing inheritance that should rightly go to the children and many other valid reasons.
Korah was challenging who God chose as priests.  As the Watchtower states, he wanted to “secure the priesthood”.  Here’s the story as told in your magazine. “Loyally Submitting to Godly Authority”  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002563
It states:
“Who make up this royal priesthood today? The apostle Peter answers that question in his first inspired letter. To anointed members of the body of Christ, Peter wrote: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” (1 Peter 2:9) 
Ever so smoothly, it presents the hidden challenge against God’s choice of priests –
“Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.”
But notice in paragraph 20, that the challenge, the battle against God’s choice of priests, continues covertly by your organization.
“Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust.”
Yes, it is stating that those who cannot “challenge” this man-made ruling that the elders are to act as priests, are the anointed priests and “living stones” of God’s Temple in Spirit! (1 Cor 3:16,17)  Didn’t Moses challenge – confront, dispute -  Korah’s blasphemous “challenge” against the priesthood?  And in the end, was Korah’s desire to secure the priesthood upheld by God, or was the Aaronic priesthood upheld by God? 
“…just as the Lord commanded him through Moses. It was to be a reminder for the Israelites that no unauthorized person outside the lineage of Aaron should approach to offer incense before the Lord and become like Korah and his followers.”  Num 16:14
Few would dare challenge an established elder body for such a reason, except the chosen priests of God.  Any who do challenge it, are tossed out and deemed spiritually dead as an apostate.  (John 16:2; Rev 11:1-3,7; 13:15)
Those few others who do see that the “man of lawlessness”/elder body “sits”/rules in the Temple dwelling of the Father, have left the organization.  They perceive the “abomination standing in the holy place”.    Matt 24:14,15; Rev 13:1,5-7,18
The leadership has apostatized against God’s decrees concerning His priesthood, and are ruling as “wicked slaves” over JWs and the anointed priesthood. (Matt 24:48-51) It is JWs who are the blind ones, and who have rejected God’s laws which are written on the anointed heart, for the laws of men.  (1 John 2:27;Heb 8:10)  How, can anyone read that Watchtower and not see that the elder body has "secured the priesthood"?  They have to be spiritually blinded by evil. (1 Tim 4:1)
2 Thess 2:1-4 – “Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come. (1914) 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.”
The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with every kind of miracle, both signs and wonders serving the lie, 10 and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness.
 
Is the organization preaching that JWs are “Loyally Submitting to Godly Authority”?  Or, to the godly authority of an idol where the “man of lawlessness” resides? 
The Disgusting Thing Standing in the Holy Place

In the Revelation, which God gave to the then glorified and now King Jesus, we are notified/warned concerning this King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Both Rev 1:14 and 2:18 tell that “his eyes are like a fiery flame”,  as he examines the “7 congregations”  representative of God’s Organization on earth during the ‘last days’.
In Rev. 19:12, when King Jesus arrives on a white horse to judge and carry on war in righteousness, “his eyes ARE a fiery flame”!!
Are you saying that YOUR eyes, YOUR insight, and YOUR ability to judge God’s people exceeds that of this most Mighty Judge and King?
Does he really need YOUR help to accurately see and direct the totality of congregations representing Jehovah today? Recall, that King Jesus candidly spoke disfavorably of, at least something, in most of the 7 stars (totality of congregations earthwide) which he examines closely, as he holds them in his right hand and walks among the 7 golden lamp stands (Rev. 1:20).
Remember Dathan, Korah, Abiram and their 250 cohorts... (Numbers 16) 
Moses was disciplined by Jehovah, and not allowed to complete his 4-decade trek to the Promised Land by entering into it.
However, those OPPOSERS, of God’s chosen representatives, were OBLITERATED by Him!!

And who might that be ? Certainly NOT Jehovah's Witnesses.  The JW org hides Pedophiles within.
The GB and their lawyers have a Database which was started in 1979 and must be still building up. A Database of Pedophiles in the USA section of JW Org. The GB will not hand over that Database to the Superior Authorities. So the sins and crimes of those wicked ones remain on the shoulders of the GB. In fact it might even include the GB. 
I do hope you are NOT encouraging people to join that wicked JW Org. That Org is immoral and seems to encourage Child Sexual Abuse by not telling the congregations who those Pedophiles are. 
Quite strange that you admit that the Elders kept your abuse hidden, so they encouraged your ex-husband to continue abusing you. BUT you still try to encourage other people into that situation. Now that is surely wicked, to encourage people into an unsafe immoral organisation. 

Your story is exceptionally sad.  I am so sorry that you had to go through what you did, but your story is one of hundreds, even thousands in a similar vein, and has happened over the extent of probably most of Wt's history.  
It cannot be verified with scripture that the Wt. is God's organization.  The only "organization" that God sanctifies is His Temple built on Jesus Christ, the apostles and prophets, and all the faithful anointed priests over the centuries, who were sealed into God's dwelling place and heavenly Temple.  (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 5:9,10)   It is "organized" spiritually, as each anointed one has received a spiritual gift which they are to use in promoting Truth.  (1 Cor 12:1-31; Rom 12:3-8; Eph 4:4-13; Rom 15:15,16 It is a spiritual "organization", having nothing to do with money, investments, politics, building -  all of which take place in the realm of Satan.  Why would Jesus promote any physical, fleshly desire of men in Satan's realm?  Jesus is the head of the Temple of God - His organization and dwelling place in Spirit.  (John 2:19-21; Matt 16:18; 2 Cor 6:14-18)
Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities
"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 
The "modern version of idolatry" is looking to "Jehovah's organization" as the way/source of salvation.  
 
 

You should not react like that to the "defeat" you have experienced. @JW Insider defends the facts, not me. But I am glad that he understood my comments and found time to find excerpts from the WT literature that indicate the thing we were talking about.

Apologize, but it doesn't even need to be said in such clear words.
It is enough to observe a change in doctrines so it can easily be concluded that JWs do not believe in many things that were an integral part of the beliefs of their predecessors (no matter of their name). In any period of time from the first apostles of Jesus to the present day. (
Moreover, JWs do not even believe in those doctrines that have recently been an integral part of “true worship” (I’m talking about periods from a few months to a few years back, even not need to go in past decades). Jesus ’apostles expected the establishment of the Kingdom durin their lifetime. JWs today claim they (apostles) had the wrong expectations. So JW today reject, apostolic, their then faith, their belief system on the matter).
Keep in mind one more thing about this issue, please nicely. Has it ever been said in WTJWorg literature in the last 50 or more years that “new light” came into the world because JW believed that “old light” was a false teaching? But the JWs stopped believing in “their own old light” (not only in the "light" of Bible Students).
So if JWs are willing to reject, to stop believing in their own "biblically established beliefs" then it will be even easier for them to abandon the beliefs of Bible Students.
Simple.
 

Then your impudence just wants to be argumentative. If you want to look for a dog to kick, look at @Pudgy. I will not engage in your quest for notoriety.
Then you hung around with the wrong crowd if you contend you are a Jehovah's Witness. This statement just shows poor judgment in your part, and the right judgment in theirs. 
If you're going to be @Srecko Sostar mouth peace, I will not engage, since it appears you as a Jehovah's Witness has a big problem with your own institution. I like to discuss the true nature of an institution, not some imaginary conclusion from a haughty person. Since my conversations also include followup questions to make things clearer, your intervention is not needed.
However, I wasn't aware. @Srecko Sostarneeded a handler, and he is unable to speak for himself like a child. I was unaware of your conditions here. I didn't know Jehovah's Witnesses "defend" former members that disparage this institution by intentional bad reports. You can continue with your quarrelsome endeavor like a boss, just not mine.

Instead of acknowledging what Srecko is saying about continuity, you are treating it as if it's a trick question. Like asking if Muhammed Ali ever won a boxing match against Sonny Liston. The answer is yes and no. His name was Cassius Clay when he fought Sonny Liston. 
In the same way, yes, I know many Jehovah's Witnesses who celebrated Christmas before they were baptized, and I even knew a few Jehovah's Witnesses at Brooklyn Bethel who celebrated Christmas after they were baptized, but before they called themselves by the name Jehovah's Witnesses. In fact, I was once in the same room with at least three of them where they had celebrated Christmas 49 years earlier. But I have never known any Witnesses who celebrated Christmas after they began calling themselves Jehovah's Witnesses.
Since Srecko was talking about the continuity of the teachings of the Watchtower Society he appears to have meant this idea in much the same way that the Watchtower means it when it uses some of the following types of expressions, and these are just a few examples out of many more:
*** w98 9/15 p. 32 The War That Destroyed the 19th Century ***
For over 120 years, Jehovah’s Witnesses have pointed to 1914 as the end of what Jesus called “the appointed times of the nations.”
*** w65 7/1 p. 394 par. 9 Plaguing the Modern “Egyptians” with Truth ***
While all seven annual messages sounded by Jehovah’s witnesses from 1922 to 1928 concluded with such appeals, it was particularly the Resolution of 1927, passed at their international assembly in Toronto, Canada, that highlighted this feature
*** w91 4/1 p. 7 Is It Later Than You Think? ***
Since 1914, however, Jehovah’s Witnesses have done that, in spite of the persecution Jesus foretold—government bans, mob violence, imprisonments, torture, and many deaths.
In 1919 there were 4,000 of Jehovah’s Witnesses preaching this good news.
*** w78 6/1 p. 23 par. 11 Co-Workers in the Harvest ***
In 1918 . . . the leading members of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses were railroaded off to the penitentiary for a 20-year imprisonment. In the eyes of their enemies they appeared as unburied corpses.
*** w83 2/15 p. 11 A Notable Annual Meeting ***
. L. A. Swingle reviewed the worldwide expansion of Jehovah’s Witnesses, from 3,868 publishers in 1918 to the more than 2,300,000 today.
*** w81 5/1 p. 17 par. 2 If God Has an Organization, What Is It? ***
At the same time, particularly since the year 1922, Jehovah’s Witnesses have been efficiently organized for fulfilling the prophecy of Jesus
*** w80 10/1 p. 28 par. 16 After These “Last Days” God’s Messianic Kingdom! ***
What Jehovah’s Witnesses have preached world wide since 1918 is something unique,
*** w09 5/1 p. 22 Brooklyn Bethel—100 Years of History ***
THE year 1909 was a momentous one . . . It was also a momentous year for Jehovah’s Witnesses. Earlier, Charles Taze Russell, president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, the legal arm of Jehovah’s Witnesses, had seen the potential for expanding the preaching of the good news of God’s Kingdom.
*** w01 1/15 p. 29 How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation ***
The International Bible Students Association is used in Britain [in 2001].
*** w01 1/15 p. 30 How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation ***
Especially noteworthy was 1931 when the Bible Students adopted the name Jehovah’s Witnesses.
*** w55 3/1 p. 141 Part 5—The Warning Work (1909-1914) ***
To hold this new property in New York state and to do business as a recognized religious body within this state it was necessary to form a New York corporation. Such corporation came into legal existence February 23, 1909, as decreed by New York Supreme Court Justice Isaac N. Miller. PEOPLES PULPIT ASSOCIATION was its name for thirty years. Then in 1939 that was legally changed to its present name, WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY, INC., similar to that of the Pennsylvania corporation, WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY.

Can you explain this?…it’s a messy statement…and not really true…rather misleading actually…from what I’ve read they couldn’t go along with some of the changes Rutherford  brought In…the one I’m thinking about is how he changed the understanding of the ARK representing Jesus ransom…to the earthly organization…and who can blame them for that…because that one thing led to a fair bit  of dogmatism..and heavy handiness ….and was so totally wrong…..so I do get why they with drew away from what Rutherford was pushing….but I dont know that we have ever said we do not beleive what Bible students once believed…??
I read an account of one JW who was not happy with what was happening with in the org so he went to the Bible students..a few different ones..but said he found the same problems within them as he had found with  us…
I like all Bible students…the ones I’ve talked with are kind and generous people doing the best they can….they seem a bit loose on pagan holidays…sometimes I think…wrongly or rightly they are caught in a time warp of Russell’s full teachings…not realizing he was just coming out of BTG and tho used by Jehovah very greatly..along with his associates of that time period ..he and they never had the time and the time was not right for a fuller understanding  of certain things…but he had a lot right..I admire him greatly…and I’m not saying we have everything right either…because we don’t!

This history is all very interesting. But it's too easy to make statements that aren't exactly accurate, even though you are making them for the good purpose of counteracting someone else's statements that are inaccurate in another way.
For example, your quoted statement above would appear to be "off" a bit, highly oversimplified. At least, that is, if you trust the WTS wording of the charter of the original WTBTS (of PA) and compare it with the charter of the People's Pulpit (which was renamed the WTBTS of New York). The WTS also said that the initial purpose of the Peoples Pulpit was simply to own property in NY, which wasn't covered under the charter of the WTBTS of Pennsylvania.
Most people don't have the time or desire to look into any of these matters too deeply, so it's good not to oversimplify too much when trying to make a point about the technical differences and relationships between Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses.
If one wanted to be even more technical, Rutherford never believed it was right to speak of the "great crowd" of "other sheep" as Jehovah's Witnesses. After all, initially at least, they were "fools."
The “great multitude” class ... have been fools, and so called by the Scriptures, ... These claim to be the people of God and convince themselves that they are; but they are foolish. (WT 10/15/1931 p.311)
At that time the . . . “other sheep” were not considered to be “Jehovah’s witnesses.”—See The Watchtower, August 15, 1934 ... (WT 2/15/1966 p.120)
Even in 1931, the Great Crowd was still considered a heavenly class who would not come through the great tribulation, but would have to die, and be resurrected as spirit beings. The WT "proved" this from Revelation 7:14. They were to be a class of heavenly beings but lower than the "little flock" because they had been negligent of their consecration and lost out on the higher calling.
The “great multitude” or “tribulation” class ... will not be spared in the great time of
trouble, but, on the contrary, they are appointed to die; . . . they will fall. (Zech. 14: 2) They will not be carried through the time of trouble. They will be forced into the time of trouble . . . but must die in order to live as spirit creatures. (WT 9/1/1931 p.262)
In 1934, the "remnant" who were the only ones called "Jehovah's WItnesses" would survive Armageddon, but the "great multitude" would NOT survive Armageddon, although the Jonadab class would survive.
The faithful remnant . . .will survive Armageddon. ... The “great multitude” ["great crowd"] will not survive Armageddon, ... God’s promise is to preserve a remnant, and not a vast multitude. The “great multitude” are appointed to die. The Scriptures also show that the Jonadab class will survive Armageddon. (WT 3/15/1934 p.92)
Today, of course, the Jonadab class is understood to have been the great multitude, who WILL survive Armageddon, and it's now the faithful remnant who will NOT survive Armageddon as humans (per recent information repeated at the Annual Meeting by Brother Herd).
It was in August 1935 when the Jonadabs became the Great Crowd (great multitude), but were still not counted as Jehovah's Witnesses. They had been specifically told in the WT that they were not even invited to attend the Memorial celebration because they were not Jehovah's Witnesses. (Finally invited in 1938.) They weren't even considered members of the organization because they did not bear the "official name."
Those who form the great multitude are appointed to places of service in the Lord’s organization although they are not members of the organization. (WT 8/15/1937 p.239)
But it wasn't until well after Rutherford died, when the January 15, 1946 Watchtower finally included the "other sheep" as "Jehovah's Witnesses."
Just saying there are a lot of nuances in the transition of beliefs (and naming conventions) during the times of Russell, Rutherford and Knorr/Franz.

I will not use the lettering "Yehovah" OR "Jehovah" to indicate the name of the Father.   This is a name formulated by men, not by God.