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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Dmitar in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    But the GB did write in the Watchtower magazine that the Anointed would not want to meet together for prayer or Bible study, and the GB wrote that the Anointed would be 'working against the Holy spirit' if they did meet together for such things. The GB put that in writing so it cannot be denied. 
    As for divorce and adultery, I've seem plenty of it in the congregations I've been in, here in England. 
    And again, as for corrupting justice, we only need to look at the CSA judicial decisions and court cases. And the hiding of known pedophiles in congregations of JWs. Some of those pedophiles were (and maybe still are) Elders and because they were hidden in congregations they managed to sexually abuse more than one child continuously.  Unless your think all of the Victims Earthwide are telling lies. 
    And you will remember that up until 2013 ( i think it was that year) ALL of the Anointed were classed as the Faithful and Discreet Slave, but that tittle was suddenly taken from them by the GB. So did the GB exhalt themselves or belittle the reast of the  Anointed ? 
    Aurana, we are all imperfect, but those with more power and responsibility (the GB) need to be more careful with how they use it all. 
     
  2. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    The person who wrote this may not have been aware of the message he/she was sending. It is to be assumed that he/she meant any other organization outside the JW circle. But WTJWorg is an organization as well. Or to write, Organization, with a capital letter.
    I believe there is a difference between the terms, (being) organized and (having) organization.
  3. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    JWs frequently compare the organization to the days of Moses leading the nation of Israel in the wilderness.  They tie these time periods together by saying they are both ‘theocratic organizations’.  However, do they acknowledge that Moses was an inspired prophet leading God’s people; and simply, their leaders are not by their own admittance? When making this comparison, do they acknowledge that God installed His priests, anointing them with holy oil, and giving them the assignment to teach the people His laws?  (Exod 28:41;29:7-9; Mal 2:7)
    The priesthood in Moses’ day was separated from the people to carry out this special work as ministers of God on behalf of the people. (Num 18:7,20; 3:10; Deut 17:9; 31:9) 
    In the early 1950’s it was stated in a JW magazine that the members of the “royal priesthood” were to be “teachers and guardians of the law of God”, providing evidence from  Mal 2:7; Lev 10:11; Deut 33:10; 17:9-11.  It said that the anointed priests had a ‘tremendous responsibility which God held them to’. They were to keep the people “on the right path”.   (Num 18:7,20; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9; Heb 13:15; Ezek 44:23; Jer 23:22)
    Are any of these words from the past magazine recognizable in “Jehovah’s organization” today? Like a chameleon blending into a wall unnoticed, the leadership of pathological liars has changed any bits of truth into untruths so gradually, that nothing seems amiss to present day JWs. (Ezek 13:3,6,7,14; Matt 24:24,25; Acts 13:9,10; Gal 1:6,7,11,12; 2 Pet 2:1-3; 1 Tim 4:1,2; Heb 12:15; 2 Pet 3:17; Rev 8: 10,11; 16:13-16)
    These changes have aided in the development, and capability of two “Beasts” to dominate and trample God’s priesthood into the dust, into an unclean state before God. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 9:1-6; 13:1,2,5-7;11,12,15-17) (Isa 29:2-4; Dan 7:23; Luke 21:20,24; 19:43,44; Eccl 3:20; 12:7; Rev 3:1,18)  
    We have an incomparable situation from that of Moses’ day, where the spirit-anointed priesthood has been shoved out of the position as active priests. Their value spoken of in the 1950’s has been dismissed by a large army’s power siege, under the guidance of a “wicked slave”.  (Ezek 34:21;Jer 4:16-21,27,28; Joel 2:2,17; Dan 7:19; 8:10,11,13; 11:31;Matt 24:48-51)
    The Levitical priesthood is under an eternal covenant with God, but His anointed priests have broken this promise God held them to, and have allowed the elder body said to “represent” God’s priests, to teach men’s laws founded on the principles of an earthly organization.   (Jer 33:18-21; Num 18:1,5,19; Heb 4:14,15; 8:10; 13:15) (Mal 2:8; Lam 2:9; Joel 2:17; Jer 5:3,11,30,31; 2 Chron 15:3; Luke 11:52;2 Thess 2:3,4)  
    But now, an earthly organization is proclaimed as the dwelling of God’s spirit. (Rom 1:25) This image of a “spirit-directed organization” is reflected through the representation of the elder body.  The men are said to have received Holy Spirit and authority to teach and judge, by the misapplication of scriptures, which rightfully apply to God’s holy priesthood.  (1 Kings 12:28-30; 13:33,34; Rev 13:11,12,15; 19:20) (John 20:23; 1 Cor 6:2,3;12:4-6,27; Eph 4:4,7,8,12,13; Rev 20:4)
    Replacing and silencing these “living stones of God’s spiritual dwelling, is an “abomination” according to God. (Num 3:10,38; 2 Chron 13:9,10; Ezek 8:6; 44:6-9; Matt 24:15,16; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 4:1; Heb 9:11; Eph 2:20-22)   
    And that does lead to a few apt comparisons to the time of Israel in the wilderness.  Besides the persistent tendency to neglect the word of the Holy One, there are two major correlations we can make.  The first was Korah’s attempt to usurp the priesthood.
    The organization comments, “When Korah and his associates in the wilderness wanted to exalt themselves to the priesthood and charged Moses and Aaron with taking too much on themselves, they proved that they did not appreciate theocratic organization.” (w 1952/Feb 1 pp. 76-85)
    Today, it is clearly evident that there is no appreciation for ‘theocratic organization’ in the anointed priesthood of God’s Temple under Jesus Christ. By the orders of the evil slave and her massive army, they are denied the ability to direct the people in truth.  (Zech 8:16; Prov 8:7;12:17; 2 Cor 4:1,2; 1 Tim 4:1; Dan 8:12)  This equates to removal of their “daily sacrifices” of praise and truth in Jesus, to the Father. (Dan 7:23; 8:10,11,13;11:31; John 15:4-6)
    All that has taken place in the organization, was prophesied to affect the remaining anointed ones in the last days – Christ’s “kings of the earth”. (Rev 12:17,15; Dan 11:10; Rev 16:13-16; 20;7-9; Luke 21:20) (Rev 1:5; 5:9,10)
    The other major comparison to Israel’s years in the wilderness, was the idolatry that broke out among them. (Exod 32:1) Their uprising, which led to fabricating a golden calf to “go before” the people, is seen through the fabrication that one must “keep in step with” – “moving ahead with Jehovah’s organization”. JWs have been stumbled by their leaders’ vision of their own minds, to “go before” them, thoroughly convinced that this idol will lead them into salvation. (Deut 7:26; Jer 14:14; Matt 16:23; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 2:14; Isa 57:14)  
     Idols do come in all sizes and forms, and it has been said from their own mouths…
    "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization."  Wt 1990/11/1 p. 26 
    It was an act of physical and spiritual thievery to ask the people of Israel to contribute their gold for the making of the golden calf idol, even if they willingly handed it over.   Aaron succumbed to the pressure of the crowd’s fleshly desires. But how Aaron approached God in repentance concerning His failure to prevent idolatry, is not known.  Moses begged God for forgiveness on his behalf, and on behalf of the people.   (Exod 32:2-4,26, 30,31; Deut 9:18-20) 
    Not so with the governing leaders. They continue on their path of growing greed and support of the abomination present in the elder body. (Mark 13:14; Matt 24:48-51; Dan 2:33,43; Rev 13:11,12; 17:3)
    Every willing or begrudging contribution that is now mandatory to preserve and to build up the idol, is pure thievery. (Exod 20:3,4; Deut 4:23; Rom 16:17,18; Rom 1:25; 8:5; Mark 10:19;John 10:10)
     Every JW who submits to such pressure becomes the victim of spiritual abuse.  They are slaves to men and their earthly treasures. (1 Cor 7:23; Gal 1:10; Col 3:24; Col 2:8; Jude 1:4; Rev 13:10)
    Both of these major comparisons to Israel’s unfaithfulness in the past, are linked to the present. The gradual removal of the holy priesthood, has led to the solid installation of the idol/organization through the exaltation of the man of lawless/elder body.  This “body” that produces ‘stinging’ judgments against God’s holy people, stands “where it doesn’t belong”.  (Mark 13:14; Rev 9:7-10; 11:1,2; 13:5-7; Ezek 2:6) 
    In his prayer during the dedication of the temple he built for the name of God, King Solomon stressed the sovereignty of God, and the necessity of his servants to “walk in all His ways”,  keeping His commandments “with all their hearts”.   (1 Kings 8:23, 57,58) 
    We do not “walk” in the statutes of men or those of an organization whose needs are no different than another earthly entity. We “keep in step” with the statutes of God through His Son, Jesus Christ. We observe only, the decrees Jesus fulfilled in his coming, and in his teachings. (Matt 15:9; 1 Tim 6:3-5)   (1 Kings 2:3; 6:12;Micah 6:8; John 8:12 Matt 22:36-40; 5:17,18; 24:35; Rom 13:10; 2 Thess 3:6)
    The temple that Solomon built, was not to be worshipped.  1 Kings 8:27.  It was a house of prayer and sacrifices made for the atonement of sins; and where God graciously filled the temple with His glory and radiance.  Still, Solomon repeatedly stated that one’s prayers from the temple would be heard by God “in heaven, the place of your dwelling”.  (1 Kings 8:30,32,34,36; Gen 28:16,17)  Although God allowed His name to be on the temple as long as Israel was faithful, it was still the Almighty God who directed the nation of Israel, and not the temple where God’s Spirit rested.  (Exod 15:2; 20:2; Isa 43:11)
    In contrast, it is the organization which bears the name “Jehovah”, (and its nonanointed elders) that is continually stressed as the guiding authority over the lives of JWs.   (Exod 23:13; Eph 5:15,16; Judges 10:13,14; Isa 46:5-9)
    One of the hypocritical governing leaders who lives behind locked gates where men in a kiosk scrutinize all visitors arriving at their highly protected compound, stated to his listeners that God expects money to be given to the organization. Through these donations received, his fleshly desires are preserved; his prominence and power over the holy people and all JWs, remains intact. (Luke 4:5-7;Rom 8:5; Gal 5:16,17,24; Eph 4:20-24; 1 John 2:16; Col 3:5; 2 Tim 3:2; Jude 1:17,18)  
    He stated, “Now, the fact is we never beg for money, but that’s not to say we can’t talk about money in Jehovah’s organization, the earthly part”.
    Never beg for money?  When speaking of the future project on the gospels of Jesus, one governing partner said,  “In view of the large scope of this project we encourage you to make it a matter of prayer and please (said with lengthy emphasis), support it according to your circumstances”.
    God has no need for an earthly organization, when Zion is built on the Body of Jesus Christ and God’s chosen “living stones” of His priestly kings. They are the “organization” that God has sanctioned since the first century. They are the temple/dwelling of God’s spirit. (Isa 2:2,3; Zech 41 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22,10; Rev 5:9,10; 1 Cor 12:27; 14:1)
    So, why is this leader talking about money? The idol requires it, just as the idol in Moses’ day required people’s gold to create it. (1 Cor 10:7)  It can only exist if money is poured into it.  The leader admits, “Money has to be discussed in the last day, this system, meets a response in all things.”  We must ask then, what sets this organization apart from any other?  Where is God’s power and spirit in this apparently unusual “spirit-directed organization”? Where does the faith in God’s ability to provide for their needs, lie?  Their faith and trust is in the idol, and all idols need to be fed by the men who create them.  So the lie is fostered that God and the Father will love JWs, because they give their material possessions…to the idol. He used two scriptures to support this.
    The first is Deut 16:16,17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut+16%3A16%2C17&version=NIV
    What were the blessings brought before the Lord?  They were the “firstfruits” of the barley and wheat harvest, and of the olive and grape.  God blessed their plantings throughout the year leading to abundant harvests because of their obedience to His commandments. (Deut 16:13,15; 26:3-5; 30:9,10)   These feasts all held spiritual significance, which we find in Jesus’ presence on earth, his teachings, and God’s provision for redemption through his atoning sacrifice.  (Matt 1:23; 7:37,38; Rom 8:2; 1 Cor 5:7;15:20; Heb 4:15; Col 2:16,17; Mark 2:22) 
    Money holds no spiritual significance to God, and cannot preserve one’s good standing before Him, or prove our love for Him. We are judged on our love and obedience to His Word in Jesus Christ. (Deut 7:11-13; Eccl 7:12; Hos 6:6; Matt 6:19,20,24; Col 3:1,2,5-7; 1 Tim 6:6-10)
    He also cited 2 Cor 9:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+9%3A7&version=NIV
     Paul urged the uninhibited generous spread of the seed of truth, and the generous giving to the poor and suffering.  (2 Cor 9:10,8)  Please read 2 Cor 8:13-15 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+8%3A13-15&version=CSB -
    Neither the sharing of and need of truth, nor physical provisions for the poor are met in the organization.  There is no fairness or equality with Bible truth in either regard, as men who live a worry-free comfortable life, breathe and propagate lying doctrines. (Prov 5:3,4,7-14; Heb 12:14,15; Rev 8:10,11; 18:7,8) 
     Pearl Doxsey:
    We learn from God's own Word, about the sacrifices that He is pleased with. 
    Three scriptures come to mind... 2 Cor 9:7-13; 8:11,12; Philemon 1:14
    They contain the lesson that our gift is decided in our own heart, between us and God alone. No compulsion should be felt, but our gift is rooted in love and joy. God then blesses our charitable work, by supplying all we need to continue in it, while we also reap abundant blessing for ourselves. Through such a relationship with God's truth and the life that results, all, are refreshed, sustained, and built up. There is no sense of burden, comparison, competition, or failure. Such things come from the wicked one, and those who assist Satan to shackle men with a bondage to Idols.
    Rules, standards, human expectations, and counting, do not serve the will, truth, or purpose of God (Matt 15:9; Mark 7:13).
    Those things only serve the unlawful, worldly power and desires, of men, and the purpose of Satan.
    "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)
     “Service” - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/01/service.html
    The poor and needy must provide not only for their own needs, but donate to the desires of the leaders, and to the needs of their idol. Using the example of the widow’s contribution to the temple in Jesus’ day, the speaker had the impudence to tell the poor, “So even when we’re poor we’re expected to give monetarily, it’s because we love Jehovah, love Jesus”   (Mark 12:41-44)
    The Watchtower Corporation is laden with stock holdings and investments. The money they receive, have, spend, and invest, is of primary interest to its governors (Matt 6:21). 
    The NMB version of the Bible states; "No man who wars, entangles himself with worldly business, because he wants to please him who has chosen him to be a soldier." (2 Tim 2:4). 
    Jesus has chosen the members of his Elect, to battle with him against religious falsehood. (2 Tim 2:3,4; 2 Cor 10:3-5; Rev 17:14; Eph 6:11,12; 5:11). 
    His faithful anointed will not prioritize or focus on, materialism (Matt 6:19-21,24,25,26,28-32).
    The GB speaker’s comparison to the early temple in Jerusalem where God removed His Spirit for rejecting his Son, should certainly clue us in to the identity of today’s idol/”temple”, as “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization”.  This Jewish system was also corrupt; the Pharisees had added their own laws to the laws of God, which Jesus referenced as burdens put upon the people.  (Matt 11:28; 23:4;16:11,12) The division between the rich and the poor was widened under the Roman Gentile domination.  The widow dropped her coins into one of 13 chests marked for the donation’s use, (sound familiar?) whether it was for sacrifices, voluntary contributions for the poor, or mandatory obligations.   These chests were shaped like trumpets, with large funnels playing back the sound of the money dropping in.  Knowing this, brings more clarity to Jesus’ words in Matt 6:2. 
    There was no balance stressed by Paul in 2 Cor 8:13-15.  If the widow dropped in “all she had to live on”, was she a recipient as a poor one, from the temple’s treasury?  For a certainty, the poor in the organization are not the recipients of its “treasury”.  (Isa 58:1,6-7; 2 Thess 3:7-9;1 Thess 2:9; James 2:1-7)
    Jesus said, “Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”  (Mark 12:7)   This nonprofit organization (and he called it such) follows strict guidelines and codes when building their “Bethels”. They seek tax exempt status, which requires registration with the government.  They are in essence, under the management of the government by following certain regulations.  This is the crux of the GB’s statement that “money has to be discussed” and “meets a response in all things” in this system.  Solomon’s temple and its building was not influenced by a government, yet when God’s people sinned, outside nations obtained dominion and power over His people, Jerusalem, and the temple.  
    Within this idolized nonprofit “spirit-directed organization”, God’s spiritual Temple has been dominated by a foreign nation – a “Gentile” take-over.  (1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2; Rev 13:4,7) Under the compulsion of God’s priests to remain silent, chained and branded by an organization of false doctrines, spiritual famine is pervasive; and a plague of corruption, disease and affliction of the heart, has come upon them and those in their company. (1 Kings 8:37-40; Ezek 14:3; Prov 23:6-8; Isa 29:7,8; Zech 10:2; Amos 8:11-13; Rev 2:9; 9:20; 13:7,16,17;16:2; 2 Thess 2:7-10) The congregations suffer in the spiritual sense; and in many areas of the world, the constant burden exists to give out of the few resources one has, expected contributions to the idol. 
    Citing John 14:23 was a very desperate choice to give credence to the leader’s decrees, because Jesus’ words in general, condemned accumulating worldly riches and storing up treasures on earth.
    Satan had offered Jesus earthly power, riches and authority over the “kingdoms of the world/earth”, but he rejected all of it. (Luke 4:5-7) He stated, “my kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36), so why would Jesus approve of men’s desires to establish his kingdom under his authority in this world, and attempt to put God’s name on it?  The Kingdom reign of Jesus Christ is one of “grace and truth”, far superior than any power, riches and authority this world has to offer. (John 1:14,17; Eph 1:19-21)
    Please consider the understanding of today’s spiritual Temple as being the anointed priesthood where God’s spirit dwells. Only His decrees are written on their hearts. (Deut 6:4-8; 2 Cor 6:16; John 14:23; Rom 5:5;2 Cor 3:3; Heb 10:16)  
    The anointed over the years have been taken captive by this Beast/organization. (Luke 22:31; 1 Pet 5:8; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10; 12:17) Those who have confronted it with truth in imitation of their Head, Jesus Christ, have faced persecution for their testimony of Jesus. (John 15:20; 16:2; 1 Pet 4:12,13; Rev 12:17;13:15; 6:9,11) The faithful “living stones”, made in the ‘image and likeness of God’, will bear the name of God and Jesus Christ in the Kingdom. (Rev 3:12) They and those who gather with them under Jesus' protection and care, will worship the Almighty Father in “spirit and truth”. (Gen 1:27; Matt 5:48; Col 3:10;Eph 5:7-10; Eph 4:24) (John 4:22-24)
     
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/
    Daniel Chapter Eleven, verses 31-45 
    Armageddon 
    "Mankind" / "Son of Man" / "Man' of Lawlessness" - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2

  4. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to BroRando in Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...   
    WTS Quote:  For example, unrepentant wrongdoers are removed from the congregation. (1 Cor. 5:11-13) What is more, the guard chambers in the entryways of those gates may remind us that today, when it comes to worshipping Jehovah, no one is admitted who does not have divine approval.
    When confronted with such issues, we do well to picture Ezekiel’s visionary temple with those lofty gates and remember: Jehovah does not lower his righteous standards, regardless of pressures from this wicked world. Do we agree with our heavenly Father and stand up for what is right?
  5. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Dmitar in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    I don't understand who you are accusing of what here ??? 
    Who was 'shot in the back from friendly fire' ?  And who did the shooting ? 
     
  6. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Dmitar in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    Um, a bit of a giveaway Tom. Sorry James. 
  7. Downvote
  8. Downvote
  9. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    Some folks on here are soooo like the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW Org in pretending they know more than others. 
    If a person says that Jesus DID know, then it would appear they are calling Jesus a liar. 
    I keep coming back to the point that even if a person knew which year the scriptures work out to, that does not take into account the fact that the time will be 'cut short', and no one knows by how much it will be cut short. 
  10. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to BroRando in Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...   
    Patiently claims Jehovah only stated {{us}} in the same manner Satan implied Jehovah Lied by stating
    However, Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like One of us in knowing good and bad. 
  11. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    Thank you. That ought to put a muzzle on the crazed mutt once and for all. Alas, I doubt it will.
  12. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to BroRando in Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...   
    Adam and Eve, what they didn't know... Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it.  Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.  But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 1:15-17)   Adam had everlasting life in view. All he had to do, is not partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. Other than that, Adam could eat from EVERY tree of the garden including the tree of life to satisfaction. If you are a Lover of Jehovah God, then you Aprecciate and Love the Deep things of God. Jehovah God is a Revealer of Secrets. (Daniel 2:47)   The anointed cherub that was covering in the Garden of Eden started to grow a haughty heart and out of that haughtiness, he became vengeful and vindictive at the first human couple. Angels are moral agents and don't have to ability to procreate, not as spirits anyway. Now the serpent was the most cautious of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” (Genesis 3:1) This angel well knew what command that Jehovah laid on Adam. However, Jehovah never laid the command on Eve. It was Adam's Headship to guide his wife and Jehovah gave him some latitude in how to instruct her.   Jehovah simply commanded Adam, "but  as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 1:17) Either Adam choose to go beyond the command of not eating its fruit by adding"no touching" and about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden. (Non-specific). Or Eve took it on her own to expand Jehovah's command. Because next to that very tree of good and bad was the tree of Life. Evidently in the middle of the garden?   Notice Eve's answer goes beyond what Jehovah commanded Adam. "At this the woman said to the serpent: “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden.  But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” (Genesis 3:2-4) Also, in her answer about the tree was not named...  but noticed in his reply he mentions knowing good and bad.   Next, the anointed cherub's response to Eve is quite telling. "At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.  For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” (Genesis 3:4-5) Did Adam tell his Wife, not to eat of fruit of the tree in the middle, (non-specific) because the tree of life was also in the middle of the garden along with the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. Not only did Adam and Eve have permission to eat from 'the tree of life' before they sinned, but they could have eaten from it after they sinned before they went hiding from Michael the Archangel as he was walking in the breezy part of the day. "Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God as he was walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife hid from the face of Jehovah God among the trees of the garden." (Genesis 3:8) Evidently this wasn't the first time they spoke with Jehovah's Chief Messenger as the word of God since they heard him walking in the garden and this time went hiding.   Several things we can glean from the scriptures. One, if Michael is the voice and face of Jehovah God, it's quite likely he manifested in the flesh as he often did as Jehovah's Chief Messenger, the word of God. Second, if Michael manifested, it is possible that the anointed cherub manifested in the flesh and the Scriptures were speaking of him symbolically as a serpent due to his caution and his turning and twisting of Jehovah's Word. Third, notice Jehovah's response to his Only Begotten Son as he blocked access to the tree of Life.   Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” (Genesis 3:22) This scripture gives us huge flashes of Spiritual Insight.   Jehovah had to be talking with the Firstborn of All Creation (Michael) which means Godlike One or One Who is Like God? It was at this instant of time that Michael understood that his God and Father was giving him an assignment which would end death. Michael was a mortal agent as the other angels were. We see that Michael "has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs." (Hebrews 1:4) Read (Philippians 2:6-10 for that name.) Notice the (—) at the end? What Jehovah was thinking, he did not express in words because Jehovah sincerely wanted to grant life to Adam and Eve. Instead, Satan, Adam, and Eve forced his hand to withhold that GIFT. But not from others...... not the seed prophesied at (Genesis 3:15) Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Notice it doesn't say like us as Apostates and Opposers of Jesus Christ falsely claim. The little devils speak just like their father... research it.. you will SEE "like ONE of us" Look up the Hebrew....   With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken.  So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life." (Genesis 3:23-24) Jehovah could not allow or drop His Divine Standard for Adam and Eve to partake of the tree of life and live forever in their imperfect and disobedient state. There was Opportunity for them to do what is Right and partake of the tree of life, they simply choose not too.... Satan knew that Adam and Eve would positively die! That is how Sinister Satan is!!   For the next 1,500 years, Satan and his angels had their eyes on that tree of life with no avail. Making up schemes to taint Jehovah's Seed. But Jehovah guarded the tree of life and is granting life to those called, chosen, and sealed. What Satan wanted so badly for himself... Jehovah gave to his Chosen Ones of the 144,000. Amen!   Click for a Free Home Bible Study.
  13. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...   
    I do not agree with this statement.  from the insight: The expression “tree of life” is used with regard to true wisdom, the fruitage of the righteous, the realization of a thing desired, and calmness of the tongue; it is also associated with the crown of life. (Pr 3:18; 11:30; 13:12; 15:4; Re 2:7, 10)
    They were put outside the garden because they had eaten from the tree Jehovah said they may not eat. There is no way he would guarantee their everlasting life if they had not passed the test. The tree of life did not have inherent life-giving properties in its fruit - BUT it represented gods guarantee of everlasting life to those he would allow to eat of its fruit  Gen 2:9; 3:22
    Your speculations are not correct my dear
  14. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to JW Insider in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    (Matthew 24:36) 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.
     
  15. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Judge orders stay of Jehovah's Witnesses constitutional claim on privacy of records   
    Well if Elders can become pedophiles then Elders can become 'spies' too. Information kept as paper copy in a filing cabinet could easily be used against a person. And if such information is passed from one congregation to another when a congregant moves congregations. Then the 'file' on that person becomes a life history and might actually be a completely distorted history too. As the example I used about myself, because I left the JW Org of my own choice, but an Elder told my wife, on the phone, that i had been disfellowshipped. So what information is actually on my 'file' that they hold about me ?  Have they put on record that I was disfellowshipped ?  It matters because if they have, then they are saying that I sinned and was unrepentant. That would be a direct lie, and that matters to me. 
    When an Elder can tell such a lie to my own wife, then it shows the capability of such ones. It shows how they will  deliberately discredit someone. If they will do that verbally, will they also put it in writing on a persons records ? 
    As has been said here many times, Elders are not perfect.  So possibly their intentions are not perfect either.  If a person leaves the Org the Elders may become bitter towards them and deliberately write misleading comments on their file. 
  16. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    Do you think Ecclesiastes 11:6:
    ”Sow your seed in the morning and do not let your hand rest until the evening; for you do not know which will have success,”
    should be changed to read ‘patiently sit on your hands until you do know?’
  17. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    If you are piloting a sailboat to Australia from the United States, and you drown, the goal was to get to Australia, not serve as a shining example of the courage of man..
  18. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    Of course not, but that WOULD HAVE been an unintended consequence other than the clearly stated goal of the project, which was to influence the Russian Government to stop the persecution of the Brotherhood.
    It’s sorta like renaming the goals and moving the goal posts AFTER the footballl game is lost to the other team, and declaring that your efforts were a success, because you sold a lo of hot dogs and beer. 
  19. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in Judge orders stay of Jehovah's Witnesses constitutional claim on privacy of records   
    I am of the opinion that it is completely legal for a person to have the right to inspect all documentation concerning him personally. In fact, the institution is obliged to provide the person with any documentation it has made concerning that person. For example, the institution makes decisions in which period employees will take annual leave. The document which is the decision on the beginning and end of the annual leave must be signed and certified and one copy/sample delivered to the employee. If an employee one day loses his document or cannot find it in his personal documentation, then he has the opportunity to look for that document in the institution. He would have the right to inspect that document, or request a copy, or take a photograph of the document with his cell phone and the like.
    Since this is about WTJWorg and special rules, within this religious institution, that are not completely clear even to its own members, because many things are not even told them how the internal system works, then complications are possible and inevitable, that our friend @Patiently waiting for Truthtalking about.
  20. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Judge orders stay of Jehovah's Witnesses constitutional claim on privacy of records   
    Yes and because of such I can understand people wanting to have their own personal information.
    As an example, I left the JW Org of my own choice, but since then an Elder has phoned my wife and told her that I was disfellowshipped.  Now I told those Elders the reasons I was leaving, so I had not been removed by them. However that Elder said I had been disfellowshipped. So, what do they hold on record about me ?   Do they have truth, that i left, or do they have a lie, that i was disfellowshipped ? 
    Hence I can understand why Ex-JWs would want their personal records. I would now like to have my records from my ex-congregation. 
  21. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    BSB is literal word for word/easy to read, there isn't a study source for it, granted it was produced by Bible Hub, however, Bible Hub instill takes in commentary and notes from others such as Thayer, etc. However, the notes are mixed, therefore, you would still need to study outside of Bible Hub for better understanding.
    The BSB and the NWT are among the few Bibles that is said to follow the sources, whereas BSB is literal word for word easy read format and the NWT is a modern revision, more evident to them following the earliest source can be seen in verses like 1 Timothy 3:16, Acts 7:59, Revelation 1:11, etc.
    That being said, as long as there is no affiliation with TR and if there is, there has to be a notation. This is one of my issues with KJV Onlyist, even during a time I use to deal with them in person.
  22. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from JW Insider in Judge orders stay of Jehovah's Witnesses constitutional claim on privacy of records   
    Here in England I used the Data Protection Act to get printed documents concerning ME, that of my Medical Records from my GP, and that of my personal information concerning my time (in the 1960's) in a Children's Home that was government run.
    I wanted more information concerning the employees and management of the Children's Home, and I was told to use the Freedom Of Information Act, to gain more information. However I was told that this extra information would not be mailed to me, and that I would have to visit an office and read through a large amount of files to be able to gain the information. Even then I would not be allowed to take photos or take notes on the files I read.  
  23. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    To be fair LORD in all caps refers to the God of Israel - Strong's 3068. In some translations it is Yahweh or Jehovah/YHWH. It is only a violation if something other than the Strong's itself is there and or something not related to it.
    The only people who get fooled are those who do not know why LORD is all caps or it's connection to Tetragrammaton. But to be honest, if the people back then simply put YHWH or equivalent and left it as is, a lot less confusion by others later on, then you also have the fear of those who invoke the name of God.
  24. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    Dear BroRando, you live in a land of unreality. 
    “Governing body”, eight men who “govern” - as governors would govern a state.  How is that done?  What power do they have?
    "Govern" from Merriam Webster:
    1a: to exercise continuous sovereign authority over especially : to control and direct the making and administration of policy in
    The country was governed by a king.
    b: to rule without sovereign power and usually without having the authority to determine basic policy (interesting!)
    2aarchaic : MANIPULATE
    b: to control the speed of (a machine) especially by automatic means
    3a: to control, direct, or strongly influence the actions and conduct of
    b: to exert a determining or guiding influence in or over
    income must govern expenditure
    to hold in check : RESTRAIN
    was told to govern her emotions
    4: to require (a word) to be in a certain case
    5: to serve as a precedent or deciding principle for customs that govern human decisions
    Intransitive verb
    1: to prevail or have decisive influence : CONTROL
    In all situations allow reason to govern.
    2: to exercise authority
     
    MANIPULATE, RESTRAIN, CONTROL
    These words define the governing leaders. 
    If Jesus is our leader, shouldn’t Jesus Christ take precedence in our lives? Shouldn’t his teachings “rule” our lives above and beyond the governing rulership of men?  Is it not true that these men set decrees outside of the Bible, that “govern human decisions”?  Yes! A. Morris admits to this!
    When we speak Christ’s truth – TRUTH – Wt’s “governors” exercise their assumed sovereign power of authority, and direct those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their leader, to be spiritually “killed” – disfellowshipped.  (John 16:2; Rev 11:1-3,7; 13:11,12,15)
    You will know when you are on the side of truth, when you experience the same.  
    “Look, I’m sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves. 17 Beware of them, because they will hand you over to local courts(judicial committees)  and flog you in their synagogues – (“congregations”). 18 You will even be brought before governors and kings because of me, to bear witness to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they hand you over, don’t worry about how or what you are to speak. For you will be given what to say at that hour, 20 because it isn’t you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father is speaking through you.
    21 “Brother will betray brother to death - disfellowshipped, and a father his child. Children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. For truly I tell you, you will not have gone through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. 24 A disciple is not above his teacher, or a slave above his master. 25 It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house ‘Beelzebul,’ how much more the members of his household!”  Matt 10:25-13
     “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
    So you see, your governing body leaders have put themselves above Jesus Christ through their judgment against Jesus’ disciples. (Luke 22:24-27)  We have another spiritual fulfillment of what took place under the corrupt rule of the Pharisees.  Those part of the anointed Body of Christ must follow the same path that Jesus took - persecution from their own people. (John 15:20)  If they remain where you are, they are the foolish virgins buying their "oil"/spirit/food from wolves in sheep's clothing, a wicked slave.  (Matt 24:48-51; Acts 20:29; Rev 13:11,12)
     I answer only to the Father and the Son.  (Gal 1:10)
     
     
    Should we obey men?
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  25. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to xero in The Last Days... When?   
    Because I like to mess up threads with things that don't appear to apply.
    Why aren't atheists concerned with their own hypocrisy?
    It strikes me as lacking in self awareness.

    Every time I catch an atheist behaving like  a Christian I stop them and say "What a hypocrite! You say you don't believe in the God of the Bible or Christianity and yet here you are, acting like a Christian!"

    Then they sputter and say things like "You don't have to believe in either of those to do what I just did."

    Then I say "So you're saying that when a Christian looks like what he just did gives the lie to his profession, he has no excuse, but you do?"

    Then the atheist sputters more nonsense and I have to shake my head and move on.
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