Patiently waiting for Truth

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I suppose it all comes down to the issue of credibility of the one doing the analysis of unseen, invisible things that happened a hundred years ago.
How many times has the WTB&TS been right?,  and
How many times has the WTB&TS been wrong?
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I don't care if it was encouraged by Mickey Mouse from the future!
If it is the death penalty to park your car in a handicapped parking space, and you DO park your car in a handicapped parking space ... it does not matter WHO made or influenced the laws.
You have committed a capital crime.
You are GUILTY of a capital crime!
.... and it is lawful to execute you.
The fact that the law is changed at a later date IS A WHOLE OTHER SUBJECT!

What you have referenced, BTK46, is post war spin generated to get back to normalcy.

The FACTS were that they were encouraging Christian values ....  which to a nation involved in a global war for survival ... true Christian values ARE SEDITION.
The rules change as a practical matter when a million men die in a year long battle, and Europe looks like the craters on the face of the Moon.
The Society WAS guilty of sedition, in encouraging men to uphold Christian Values, and NOT WAR, at a time when the Republic faced destruction at the hands of the Germans.
...and that's the fact, Jack.

That is so ludicrous I don't even know where to start.
The reason the Brothers were imprisoned for sedition, etc ... IS THAT THEY WERE GUILTY !
They were not let out of prison early because of some imaginary vindication ... they were let out because the "Great War" was over.

As the Admin pointed out ... by the time I had entered this thread, the Admin had REMOVED THE REFERENCE.
Therefore, you were reacting to what you saw ... and I was reacting to what I saw.
I personally do not even take threats, real or just bluster, too seriously.
I had a very wealthy Elder once call me up, and he said he was going to destroy me.
I nonchalantly replied that he knew where I lived, and I would meet him in the street, in front of where I was staying,  anytime, and we would shoot it out.
I never saw or heard from him again.
... and I do quite often TRY to act like  a three year old little girl ... they are so happy and full of life, and wonder !  
Very, very inspirational!
The best I can manage is a 24/7/365 sense of humor.
I seriously doubt the Governing Body has anything to fear from John Butler, he has no firearms .... whereas YOU, on the other hand, have claimed to own a small arsenal, and a 50 caliber BMG sniper rifle capable of shooting about a mile and a half, accurately, and 4.5 miles total, and I would not be surprised if that foam on your mouth. is NOT shaving cream.

Most rank and file have been conditioned to believe the governing body is Jehovah, so it would be interesting to see their reaction should they be thrown in prison for their fraud.

I may have missed something BTK46, but I do not see where in this particular thread, as shown above, where John Butler threatened ANYBODY.
Please correct me with a quote, as you apparently see something that is NOT THERE.
No surprise at that .....
It's either you, or me that is wrong about this, and historically, it's always been you.
If I say the Governing Body is it's own worst enemy, because they keep shooting themselves in the foot and systematically destroying their credibility, day by day, that is NOT a threat.
.... merely a figurative  observation.

I do find it kinda' funny that JW's love to talk about billions of people being removed / destroyed / killed / murdered at Armageddon. Billions of people.
And for what ? Well JW's say it's for not serving God. But they will also say it's for not being a baptised JW. 
Well we do know for sure that God either deliberately had, or deliberately allowed, the destruction of Jerusalem in circa 70 C E, and for what ? 
Well the Bible shows us it was for not serving God properly, and for killing God's son. 
BUT when I suggest that the Governing Body should be removed or destroyed, oh dear, the JW's they get really upset ya know. 
Governing Body = 8 men.   Jerusalem = how many, men, women and children, thousands of them. 
But oh dear, now it would be murder. So what was it back then ?  Your see JW's live in a dream world, wrapped up in cotton wool, they just cannot face the real world.
The Governing Body do not serve God properly. That is clearly visible to anyone that honestly wants to see it. 
The Governing Body are destroying JW Org, and if JW Org is God's true Organisation then the GB are deliberately working against God and against God's intentions. 
Humans that deliberately work against God and cause problems for God do not last long on this Earth. 
The Bible shows much proof of this, such as those that opposed Moses. 
I am expecting the GB to be removed, one way or another. But only if God really wants to use the JW Org / Watchtower soc for His own purposes. 
If God does not want to use those Orgs then it would seem sensible for God to set up a new Org for His purposes. 
The only problem with the GB being 'removed' is that JW's will call it a 'sign of the times' and 'persecution', but if God causes the removal then I'm sure He will put them straight. 
Those people that say that the GB cannot be removed / destroyed, are those people that worship the GB. And those people that worship the GB may probably need removing too. 
The world is wicked, it belongs to Satan. The Earth is wonderful and it belongs to Almighty God.
For God to save this Earth and for Him to save a few humans too, drastic things have to take place. Drastic things have to take place.
 

The word “soul” in the Bible is a translation of the Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. The Hebrew word literally means “a creature that breathes,” and the Greek word means “a living being.” Many Bible translations render the words neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ differently according to the context, using words such as soul, life, person, creature, or body.

"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)

Adam wasn't given a soul as many religions teach, but rather, Adam, Became a Living Soul. Notice how others translated this verse @ (Genesis 2:7) | New International Version Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
 
Young's Literal Translation And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature. American Standard Version And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. World English Bible Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. NWT And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person.
The punishment for disobedience was Death, not an eternal life of punishment. "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 2:17)
 
"In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”(Genesis 3:19) “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” —Ezekiel 18: 4, 20, King James Version.
“Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.” (Exodus 31:14 KJV)

Note: Although many Bible translations use the terms “dead body” or “dead person” in some verses, the original Hebrew uses the word neʹphesh, or “soul.”


Many Religions teach that the soul never dies. It that was true, then the Resurrection would be an unnecessary act.
Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” (John 11:23-25) The Apostles Paul also stated, "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a Resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) Is There Hope for the Dead?

If so, expect the exJW crowd to become virulently hostile to vaccines.

…. Get more than 200 people together, in ANY religious group, and watch “the way things SHOULD be” go to hell in a hand basket.
…… it’s the nature of imperfect humanity.
….. sometimes also attributed to “bad luck”.

I agree it is mostly accurate; a very informative article which fills in many details we don't usually get about the work there.  The outcome of the request for registration is not unexpected, knowing what happened in different eras and with Jesus himself.
I like the way the writer expresses her understanding of everything throughout the article, e.g. this statement:   "Apparently, a religious minority is a convenient target for slanders and distorted facts, as the Jews themselves know from their bitter experience.”
 
 

It proves that the Watchtower / JW Org needs to provide a 'carrot', a bribe, a false promise.
So the next question needs to be. What will God or Christ replace this with ? 

There is a parallel with the Bible Student history chart that is relevant for this discussion that does not align with some opinions here as well.
Two of the listed association renounced it’s fellowship with the Bible Student Association in 1909. The Free Bible Students. That association formed the New Covenant Believers, Christian Millennial fellowship, Free Bible Student Association.
Paul S. L. Johnson was skeptical about Russell’s teaching since 1905 and subsequently lead the Free Bible Students to depart from Russell’s teaching in 1909 as depicted in the chart. This error and lie is not noted in the Bible Student history with that point of departure, since “Henninges” wrote to Russell trying to persuade him to change certain views and when Russell refused, Henninges and the Melbourne congregation left to form their own movement which was called “ the New Covenant Fellowship” in 1909 that is not mentioned in that chart?
That chart doesn’t include how, pilgrim M.L. McPhail and A. E. Williamson from the Chicago Bible Students actually formed the “New Covenant Believers” in 1908 and started their own publication The Kingdom Scribe?
These groups are not mentioned in that chart since it try’s to depict in a simplified manner the major known groups of all the “independent” Bible Students. Keep in mind, Russell didn’t agree with many of the understandings independent congregations were offering as insight. Some of that insight included Millerism, which Russell did not accept nor support.
I just thought this correction should be included here. Not everything written in WIKI should be considered factual.

Somewhere around 50 years ago there was a television program on called “Slattery’s People”, starring Richard Crenna as a congressman who went around helping his constituents.

As the program opened the camera zoomed in on the two keyed desk receptacles a congressman uses to vote with, while a very distinguished voice intoned  “Democracy is a very bad form of government …… But all the others are so much worse.“
I think one of the reasons that I remember that so emphatically is that is the way I view Jehovah’s Witnesses in modern times, merely because we govern with heavily flawed human beings.
You are never going to get justice. You are never going to get equity. You’re never going to get fairness. You are never going to get reasonableness.
You are never going to get justice. You are never going to get equity. You’re never going to get fairness. You are never going to get reasonableness.
Until Christ’s Kingdom Is fully in place and is being administered by perfect people, angels or whatever they’re going to use.
I suspect that 700 years into the thousand year reign of Christ there will still be people in authority that have many of the failings and foibles that plague us today, and the survivors will still be bitching and moaning that life is just not fair.….. And they will be correct.
 ……. and they will be correct.
Get used to it.
Basically we are just big ugly bags of mostly water, trying to be something we’re not, and failing in some way, or most ways.
With all the colossal persistent and never ending screw-ups, arrogances and missteps that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society engages in daily remember this, in reality, and for now…… And I cringe as I write this…… they are the best bet the human race has.
……. as the people of Poland discovered when invaded by the Nazis, you don’t fight a war with the army you want…… You fight a war with the army you have.
 
 
 
 

It proves that the Watchtower / JW Org needs to provide a 'carrot', a bribe, a false promise.
So the next question needs to be. What will God or Christ replace this with ? 

"JEHOVAH GOD is the Grand Identifier of his true messengers. He identifies them by making the messages he delivers through them come true. Jehovah is also the Great Exposer of false messengers. How does he expose them? He frustrates their signs and predictions. In this way he shows that they are self-appointed prognosticators, whose messages really spring from their own false reasoning—yes, their foolish, fleshly thinking!"w97 5/1 p. 8
I found this wt. quote after answering a JW on reddit with this comment.  For any JW passing through here...
Do you remember the cover of the 5/15/1984 Awake magazine? If not, you can look up its image on Google. Do you think that God knew that this was a lie before time showed that your leaders failed in their prediction? The world calls people that do this, false "prognosticators”. I think even your writers have used this term in references to false prophets.
Yes, God was aware it would fail. In light of all the dates set by your organization for Armageddon, did God know each one would fail? Yes, of course. Did He say, “well even though these leaders have misled thousands with their promises that didn’t hold true, and even though they took their message of error to people’s homes world-wide, misleading them with a teaching that will certainly prove to be false, I will bless them with abundance of spiritual food!”
Really? Show me where in the scriptures God approves of falsehoods – false teachings. These are only the blatant untruths, made by your leadership. The list is very long.
God is looking for people to come out of your organization where darkness and rotten fruit is found. (Matt 7:15-20; John 3:19,20) He wouldn't demand that people remain where He knew Christ's teachings were abandoned for men's doctrine. You've got it all wrong, sir.
“I will use my power against the prophets who see false visions and predict things that don’t come true. They will not help my people make decisions or be recorded in the records of the nation of Israel. They won’t even enter Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord.” Ezek 13:9 (GW)
Then the Lord told me, “These are the lies that the prophets are telling in my name: They claim that I sent them, commanded them, and spoke to them. They dreamed up the visions they tell you. Their predictions are worthless. They are the products of their own imagination.” Jer 14:14
This is what the Lord of Armies says:
“Don’t listen to what the prophets are saying to you.
They fill you with false hope. (like the people had, on the cover of the Awake)
They speak about visions that they dreamed up.
These visions are not from the Lord.” Jer 23:16
“A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. People will refuse to listen to the truth and turn to myths.” 1 Tim 4:3,4
 
So tell me, where is it said that God has turned a blind eye to false, failed teachings by your GB, and expects you to do the same? (Rev 18:4-8)
 
 
 How to Identify True Prophets
 
 
 
 

In spiritual sense. In a figurative sense.
In literal and medical way, blood is fluid for the transfer of nutrients and waste. Blood is circulatory tissue. Blood needs the heart to circulate through the body. So blood can't do anything without a heart.
But also .... "heart is source of life".
Above all the things that you guard, safeguard your heart,+For out of it are the sources of life. -Prov 4 23 nwt

What self-confidence .... “guided by the Holy Spirit”.

The body and blood of Jesus were given a transferred meaning in bread and wine. But bread and wine, precisely because they directly represent the body and blood of a man, are exactly what they are - body and blood. So to eat bread and drink wine, in commemoration of Christ's death, is nothing else but to bite into the flesh and drink some blood. 
Does it bother God that by some human activity man cannot be saved forever? No, he doesn't mind. Because, human life is erratic and often times we have to repeat the same or similar actions in order to live or survive some circumstances.
Little correction please. 
 28  For the holy spirit+ and we ourselves have favored ... nwt 
Since the apostles were imperfect and sinful people and prone to wrong assumptions, so says WTJWorg and GB, could it be that they said and wrote something that has errors? No matter what topic. Because, that is exactly how today's GB justifies itself for its theological acrobatics. GB says that even the first Christians had wrong assumptions and expectations and misinterpreted the teachings of Jesus.
Under what circumstances did the apostles err? Then when were they “inspired” or when were they “guided” by the Holy Spirit?
GB said they, today, are "guided", ... just "guided". 

… and what if it is a Tuesday, and you are an Eskimo, and your license plate ends in a odd number?

Yeah …. The WTB&TS  got the Blood Issue  exactly right the first time, then as they were sued by families of those that died, they changed their stance to allow transfusion of separate blood fractions, so as not to hemorrhage money.  
 
The GB has admitted in the February,  2017 Watchtower that they are neither infallible or inspired of God, as regards any matters Theocratic. 
 
…… but they have the best Lawyers and Accountants money can buy!