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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    You live in a spiritual haven where love can be turned off at the drop of an announcement - "disfellowshipped!"  So I understand why you are so adamant that these scriptures are "spurious", never to have been added to God's word at any time over history.    And, it can't be dismissed that its presence in your Bible would be a challenge to overcome, if a JW brought them up in a judicial meeting. Because it isn't in there, it makes life for your judges so much easier to follow their rules, instead of the law of love in Jesus Christ.
     
     
     
     
  2. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Dmitar in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    Simply because the topic was not mainly about Revelation. The topic was about the Watchtower admitting that they got interpretation wrong, therefore they admitted misusing scripture.  In the Watchtower quote that I used about the locusts I cannot see any mention of the Angel of the Abyss. Um, maybe you should be a Watchtower writer, you see to know more than they do. 
    SM, you have great knowledge of scripture and other things. This is your topic here, enjoy it.  
  3. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Thinking in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    May I ask your view on the locusts in.  Revelation….Russell seems to have had the correct view In Joel..many years ago….some where along the line that was changed to represent Us….which never made any sense to me…so I’m relieved we have corrected that..yet we still claim the locusts in Rev are still talking about us.
    yet Russell thought they were the same as Joel…..I am confused on this point..yet aware….that the bow and arrow…horses…crowns..etc all have and do have double meanings..and are interchangeable….with those who are against Jehovah ..and those who are with Jehovah…so it may be the case here….
  4. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in SHEDDING LIGHT ON THE ARMY OF LOCUSTS   
    @Patiently waiting for Truth said in a recent closed topic about the identity of the locust in Joel   - "The Watchtower / JW Org / GB, here admitted that what they had been teaching was FALSE."
    Yes! For years!  Noting this error has astounded people of other religions in the world.  But, JWs believe they have the "truth", that they live and teach the "truth" ...that their preaching work is "truth"...and that the GB are guiding this organization...in truth. 
    Is this truth based on just a few core teachings?  Apparently so. 
    As Jesus said about the Pharisees,   "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!" Matt 23:24
     
     
     
     
  5. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    The information i have given was only available in April 2020 Study Watchtower.  I have given a link to the source. 
     
     
  6. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    Unfortunately it seems there is a young JW here that is being misguided by a man that 'thinks' he knows truth.
    Can we please set matters straight about the wrong use of scripture. 
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-april-2020/An-Attack-Coming-From-the-North/
    The Watchtower—Study Edition  |  April 2020 STUDY ARTICLE 14      An Attack Coming From the North!
    2 As those Bible students soon found out, however, it can be one thing to learn what the Bible teaches about a certain doctrinal subject but quite another to discern correctly the meaning of a Bible prophecy. Why is that so? For one thing, Bible prophecies are often best understood when they are undergoing fulfillment or after they have been fulfilled. But there is another factor. To understand a prophecy correctly, we generally have to consider its context. If we focus on only one aspect of the prophecy and ignore the rest, we may draw the wrong conclusion. In hindsight, it seems that this has been the case with a prophecy in the book of Joel. Let us review that prophecy and discuss why an adjustment in our present understanding is needed.
     For many years, we have applied that prophecy symbolically to the way in which Jehovah’s people, like an unstoppable swarm of locusts, engage in their preaching activity. We understood that this activity has devastating effects on the “land,” or the people who are under the control of the religious leaders.
    However, when we consider the prophecy in its context, we see that a different understanding is appropriate. Let us examine four reasons why this is so.
    5 First of all, notice Jehovah’s promise with regard to the plague of locusts: “I will drive the northerner [the locusts] far away from you.” (Joel 2:20) If the locusts represent Jehovah’s Witnesses as they obey Jesus’ command to preach and make disciples, why would Jehovah promise to drive them away? (Ezek. 33:7-9; Matt. 28:19, 20) Clearly, Jehovah is driving away, not his faithful servants, but something or someone who is hostile to his people.
    Notice that Jehovah promises to “make compensation” for the damage the locusts have caused. If the locusts picture Kingdom evangelizers, this would suggest that the message they proclaim causes damage.
    Did you notice that Jehovah says: “After that I will pour out my spirit”; that is, after the locusts have completed their assigned task? If the locusts are preachers of God’s Kingdom, why would Jehovah pour out his spirit on them after they finish their witnessing? 
    We previously connected the plague of locusts described by Joel with our preaching work because of a similar prophecy found in the book of Revelation. 
    Admittedly, there are similarities between the prophecy in Revelation and the one Joel recorded. However, there are significant differences. Consider: In Joel’s prophecy, the locusts devastate the vegetation. (Joel 1:4, 6, 7) In John’s vision, the locusts are “told not to harm the vegetation of the earth.” (Rev. 9:4) The locusts Joel saw came from the north. (Joel 2:20) Those John saw came out of an abyss. (Rev. 9:2, 3) The locusts Joel described are driven away. In Revelation, the locusts are not driven away but are allowed to finish their work. There is no indication that they deserve Jehovah’s disapproval. 
    The significant differences between the two prophecies lead us to conclude that they are not connected.
    17 What has changed? We now have a more accurate understanding of the prophecy found at Joel 2:7-9. Simply put, these verses refer, not to our zealous preaching work, but to the activity of the Babylonian army that invaded Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Watchtower / JW Org / GB, here admitted that what they had been teaching was FALSE.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Romans / Superior Authorities scripture was also falsely used by the Org between 1929 to 1962.
    Until 1929, the “superior authorities” or “higher powers” were correctly said by Watchtower to be the earthly rulers to whom Christians paid taxes and whose laws they were obligated to follow.
  7. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    ABADDON
    (A·badʹdon) [from Heb., meaning “Destruction”].
    At Revelation 9:11 this Hebrew word is transliterated into the English text. There we read concerning the symbolic plague of locusts that they have “a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” 
    That's all ya gettin'.  
  8. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    Unfortunately it seems there is a young JW here that is being misguided by a man that 'thinks' he knows truth.
    Can we please set matters straight about the wrong use of scripture. 
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-april-2020/An-Attack-Coming-From-the-North/
    The Watchtower—Study Edition  |  April 2020 STUDY ARTICLE 14      An Attack Coming From the North!
    2 As those Bible students soon found out, however, it can be one thing to learn what the Bible teaches about a certain doctrinal subject but quite another to discern correctly the meaning of a Bible prophecy. Why is that so? For one thing, Bible prophecies are often best understood when they are undergoing fulfillment or after they have been fulfilled. But there is another factor. To understand a prophecy correctly, we generally have to consider its context. If we focus on only one aspect of the prophecy and ignore the rest, we may draw the wrong conclusion. In hindsight, it seems that this has been the case with a prophecy in the book of Joel. Let us review that prophecy and discuss why an adjustment in our present understanding is needed.
     For many years, we have applied that prophecy symbolically to the way in which Jehovah’s people, like an unstoppable swarm of locusts, engage in their preaching activity. We understood that this activity has devastating effects on the “land,” or the people who are under the control of the religious leaders.
    However, when we consider the prophecy in its context, we see that a different understanding is appropriate. Let us examine four reasons why this is so.
    5 First of all, notice Jehovah’s promise with regard to the plague of locusts: “I will drive the northerner [the locusts] far away from you.” (Joel 2:20) If the locusts represent Jehovah’s Witnesses as they obey Jesus’ command to preach and make disciples, why would Jehovah promise to drive them away? (Ezek. 33:7-9; Matt. 28:19, 20) Clearly, Jehovah is driving away, not his faithful servants, but something or someone who is hostile to his people.
    Notice that Jehovah promises to “make compensation” for the damage the locusts have caused. If the locusts picture Kingdom evangelizers, this would suggest that the message they proclaim causes damage.
    Did you notice that Jehovah says: “After that I will pour out my spirit”; that is, after the locusts have completed their assigned task? If the locusts are preachers of God’s Kingdom, why would Jehovah pour out his spirit on them after they finish their witnessing? 
    We previously connected the plague of locusts described by Joel with our preaching work because of a similar prophecy found in the book of Revelation. 
    Admittedly, there are similarities between the prophecy in Revelation and the one Joel recorded. However, there are significant differences. Consider: In Joel’s prophecy, the locusts devastate the vegetation. (Joel 1:4, 6, 7) In John’s vision, the locusts are “told not to harm the vegetation of the earth.” (Rev. 9:4) The locusts Joel saw came from the north. (Joel 2:20) Those John saw came out of an abyss. (Rev. 9:2, 3) The locusts Joel described are driven away. In Revelation, the locusts are not driven away but are allowed to finish their work. There is no indication that they deserve Jehovah’s disapproval. 
    The significant differences between the two prophecies lead us to conclude that they are not connected.
    17 What has changed? We now have a more accurate understanding of the prophecy found at Joel 2:7-9. Simply put, these verses refer, not to our zealous preaching work, but to the activity of the Babylonian army that invaded Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Watchtower / JW Org / GB, here admitted that what they had been teaching was FALSE.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Romans / Superior Authorities scripture was also falsely used by the Org between 1929 to 1962.
    Until 1929, the “superior authorities” or “higher powers” were correctly said by Watchtower to be the earthly rulers to whom Christians paid taxes and whose laws they were obligated to follow.
  9. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Dmitar in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    You were totally off topic, because the TOPIC was about the misuse of scriptures by the Watchtower... 
    And the GB / Watchtower admitted they were wrong.  Truther ? You can't even tell the truth here. I would think you are a laughing stock amongst real Truthers. 
  10. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Dmitar in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    The other thread was locked because you were off topic and just trying to get attention for yourself  
  11. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Dmitar in NWT KINGDOM INTERLINEAR TRANSLATION OF THE GREEK SCRIPTURES. 1985   
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/kingdom-interlinear-greek-translation/books/
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/
    I am using the 1985 version of this Interlinear Greek translation by Watchtower, and I'm wondering if there is an updated version or a better version I could be using.  I have hard copy of this, but also I found one on the JW Org website but it didn't have a date of publication, so i don't know if it's a newer one. 
    Also is there a Watchtower approved translation of the Hebrew scriptures ?
    A couple of points though.
    As you will know I believe the scriptures are for the 'true' Anointed and that when Jesus is ready (Jesus has all authority) He will provide Holy Spirit to those of the remnant to guide God's people to truth. 
    Secondly, the words of Jesus recorded Matthew 11 : 25
    Berean Study Bible
    At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
    My thinking runs in line with this scripture above. That God reveals the meaning of scripture to whom HE chooses, and that Jesus now does the same. 
    Hence with all the deep discussion on this forum and those on here that consider themselves wise and learned, I tend to think that no matter how much research one does, and how much one studies languages ect, only God through Christ will give true knowledge. 
    However that does not mean i should be lazy or not study God's word. What it means to me is that I should not expect to understand too much or too deeply. 
    Hence, back to the point, Interlinear Translations that can be trusted ????? And the most up to date ? 
    All information welcome, thank you. 
    Oh and to confess, I still haven't learnt to use Strong's properly yet, but I keep trying.  
  12. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    I didn't go off topic. Abaddon has a strong connection to the Locusts. So anyone reading Joel or Revelations has to understand who Abaddon is. You locked it because you didn't want to expose yourself. Granted the WHO factor can make or break anyone's state, which was the case with Witness.
    You were asked WHO he was not HIS name/title.
    evidence below:
    The reason one must know WHO he is, is due to the fact that he controls/leads the Locust Army.
    Unlike you, I don't cower from questions, for I adhere to 2 Timothy 3:16. You? I guess that is for you to find out.
    That being said, next time you mention Locust, know what these things are, for a preacher of the gospel, running from such a thing only proves the point Christians and Muslims make about former witnesses. More so, your reaction proves me right.
  13. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Dmitar in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    @Srecko Sostar That is a really great explanation and yes, it proves the dangers of that type of 'teaching'.
    We know that people like to have their ears 'tickled', and it seems the GB have found a way of tickling people's ears.
    In fact it seems a very dangerous way forward. The idea of moving away from God's written word. Replacing God's word with play acting. We know that the GB speak falsely when they give talks. How much more will these plays be false. 
  14. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    The reason the Wt cannot tolerate these “spurious” scriptures is because they are “spurious.” Nobody else worth his salt in the world of biblical scholarship can tolerate them either. Just because a passage appeals to sentimentality does not mean it belongs in the word of God.
    Up till now I thought you at least knew scriptures, if not their proper application. Now it appears you do not know scripture either. Any tear-jerker of a passage you uncritically accept.
    What “proofs” does your website offer to counter the fact that it is not found in any of the oldest manuscripts? Besides the fact that it appeals to you, I can see only:
    1) Jesus said a lot of things, all the scrolls in the world could not contain them, so probably this is one of those things.
    2) It is not vague but has specific details.
    That’s it!
    I could write a biblical passage to meet these criteria, and you would probably accept it.
    In fact the Trutomicom excerpt, unjustly excluded from modern Bibles, but I have found an ancient manuscript of such in my glove box, includes the following “missing” passage from Revelation:
    ”And loud voice was heard from the rider of the white horse, crying “Whoa!!!” As the angelic troops ground to a screeching halt, amidst the whinnying and neighing  and snorting of horses, the rider’s voice rang out:
    ”Really, what business is this of ours? Here below we see ones who do not know their right hand from their left. It’s their affair! Let the one who has no sin among them throw the first bolt. Since there is not such a one, I forgive them as well.* Now let’s go home.
    *all except for the sins of a certain 8 men in New York State. They really tick me off! I’ll let all sins slide except for theirs. They’re gonna fry!”
    Happy?
  15. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    Do all "Trinitarians" think alike?  Do all "Anti-Trinitarians" think alike?  Obviously not.  This is one "Anti-Trinitarian" that believes John 7:53-8:11 is a true account, and the account has nothing to do with the trinity.   I so appreciated how you described the qualities of Jesus Christ, but even though we are both “Anti-Trinitarians”, I don’t believe in all that you believe. You have to accept that.  In fact, I think you tend to focus on the worldly and not on the spiritual. You apply earthly concepts to the meaning of prophecy as JWs do, which comes through the eyes of a “natural man”.  (1 Cor 2:14)
     I very much appreciated how the link I provided was laid out clearly for me, even though the writer may be a “Trinitarian”.  So, what am I to do, shun all Trinitarians even though there may be some truth to their words in other topics?  If I am to shun all Catholics, I should be shunning my brother and his family and all of his friends.  Yet, my Catholic sister-in-law has worked in the soup kitchen for many years, providing for the homeless.  I am not in charge of reading her heart, or the hearts of my family.  They accepted me for my “anti-trinitarian” + Watchtower beliefs…for years. My sons are now agnostic. Should I shun them because they fit in some category?   Their judgment is in the hands of God, as is mine.  I am not in charge of reading the hearts of all "Trinitarians"; are you?  
     I am an “Anti-Trinitarian” as you say, as are the people I have come from.  I don’t shun them for not believing in their organization, but they shun me for my actions/words against it.   Can you see how lumping people into a specific group of "trinitarian" and "anti-trinitarian", is going a little overboard?   It is just another form of bias.
    This is the time of confusion, which will eventually be cleared up for all righteous-hearted people, who will come to the knowledge of truth.  Isa 2
     
  16. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    I really don't know why you expect people to jump at your command.  I gave you a link to a comprehensive article.  I have given my opinion on the scriptures.  You have given yours.  If that is not good enough, nothing will be good enough for you - a man who demands obedience to his rules.  Sheesh, SM, this is a forum of opinions, thoughts and feelings, and facts.  Whatever you contribute, I'm fine with it, but don't expect me to follow your lead!
     
  17. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    It appears you removed part of your comment... never mind.  I found it in another comment - 
    "There is plenty of reason to not believe it. Though Jesus forgives sin frequently in scripture, there is always some evidence of repentance on the sinning one’s part. There is some basis for forgiveness. Here there is not."
      Well, it is true that the Wt. cannot tolerate these "spurious" scriptures because they would diminish the power of disfellowshipping.  
    Jesus knew the heart of each person that he met.  He could read the heart of the woman "who led a sinful life" in Luke 7:36-50, and he forgave her.  (Matt 12:25; Luke 6:8; John 2:25)  It is impossible for your leaders to accept the passage of "mercy" in John 7-8 as @Pudgy called it, because there was no visible evidence of remorse over the woman's sins.  Elders, as you well know, cannot read a person's heart.  So they judge in error, many times destroying the lives of the person they have judged.  Jesus could never judge a person's heart in error.   Not only have JWs checked the hand of God in HIs ability to bring this passage to light,  but also is the hand of Jesus Christ.  JWs find it impossible for Jesus to forgive the woman so easily in the account. 
    "Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."   Rom 13:10
    "For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'”  Gal 5:14
    "If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself,' you are doing right."  James 2:8
    This "law" was set up by God of the "Old Testament".  Yet, the Wt "law" that is set up through the hands of "Jehovah's organization", does not react with love.  It reacts through the power of men over others.  It reacts through selfish desires.  
    "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."  Col 1:15  This means that even the God of the "Old Testament" would have forgiven and saved the woman from death, at the hands of the lying Pharisees. 
     
     
  18. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    That is a good statement for JWs to ruminate on...considering all the failed dates for Armageddon, "this generation" teaching, many other doctrinal failures; and the concept of an earthly organization as the way to salvation.   
  19. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Space Merchant in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    I will address the below briefly because apparently when someone "calls" you to claim, they run away from even the basics of asking. I will also repost key points of a debate I had regarding this topic with better quotations, this because when forums update, some words or punctuations turn into symbols.
    What is Abaddon, and what does that name/title means:

    Abaddon (אֲבַדּוֹן‎) is a Hebrew term, that derives Avaddon, meaning either Destruction or Doom. Like the Hebrew term, the Greek equivalent  is Apollyon (Ἀπολλύων) which means Destroyer [The Destroyer]. This appears in the Scriptures in both instances, in regards to a place of destruction, as for the angel in question, it is interpreted as an Archangel of the abyss. 

    Who is Abbadon:

    As shown in the other thread, it is obvious as to what the name/title means, however, it was never addressed who it is, clearly there is reason behind that because there are only 2 sides concerning the Angel of the Abyss - one good, and one bad, which can make or break a viewpoint not only verily easily, but quickly. Running from such does not help either. For this angel is very well connected with the Locust Army itself. In the Hebrew text, Abaddon is used with reference to a Bottomless Pit, often appearing alongside the place שְׁאוֹל (Sheol), meaning the realm of the dead.
    Notes:

    Hebrew Text

    The term Abaddon appears six times in the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible; Abaddon means destruction or "place of destruction", or the realm of the dead, and is accompanied by Sheol. In the Hebrew Old Testament, Abaddon, is mentioned several times, in a sense, often in reference to the grave (Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12; Psalms 88:11; Proverbs 15:11; 27:20). Even when it comes to oral traditions of legends of Rabbinical Literature, Abaddon is identified as a separate realm where those in damnation are laid dead in both fire and snow, moreover, shown as one of several places in Gehenna that Moses the Levite has visited.
    Greek Text
    We see the appears of Abaddon in the Greek text as well. In Revelation 9:11, this is the first known depiction of Abaddon as an individual entity instead of a place. Because of this, this left the identity of Abaddon open to interpretation. In 1708, a Protestant, Matthew Henry believed Abaddon, to be The Antichrist, another such as Jamieson-Fausset Brown in 1871, as well as Henry Hampton Halley in 1922, didn't believe Abaddon to be The Antichrist, but rather, Satan the Devil. This is also in contrast for some the Methodist publication, The Interpreter's Bible, which  states that Abaddon is an angel, but not of Satan, instead, but from God, performing his work of destruction at God's bidding, all this by citing the context at Revelations 20:1-3. Likewise, for most Restorationist, including Jehovah's Witnesses, also cite Revelation 20:1-3 where the angel having the key of the abyss is actually shown to be a representative of God, which brings the conclusion of Abaddon being Jesus (Michael for some), in title after resurrection.

    Secondary Notes:

    Destroyer can equate to other things/persons as well

    1 Corinthians 10:7-10, this passage is about Apostle Paul’s focus on those of Israel who succumb to murmuring and putting God to the test, and the "Destroyer" here is regarding God’s messenger sent to destroy – that is, if you take into account the context of the references.

    Isaiah 33:1 or chapter 33 in general is regarding the "Destroyer" (The Assyrian/Assyria). Who in turn is eventually destroyed by another, an Angel (Angel of Death also known as a Destroyer). For the history of Sennacherib, who is an Assyrian, for Assyria (the Destroyer mentioned in Isaiah 33:1) threatened to destroy Jerusalem, which at the time its ruler being Hezekiah, the son of Ahaz. God responded by sending an Angel, and this Angel, who was sent, took out, or as some would say, steamrolled 185,000 Assyrian Soldiers as they prepared to enter the city (2 Kings 18-19, Isaiah 37:33-38). For none do not see Satan or Jesus, but an Angel, and before that we know of Assyria, who was a Destroyer themselves, thus the God of Hezekiah, going with Prophet Isaiah has said, destroyed the destroyer, which is, Assyria with the destroyer that was sent.

    [When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed;]

    Another example is that God sent an angel to take action, Hebrews 11:28, the "Destroyer" here was indeed an Angel also known as "The Angel of Death" called by some or other translations. This same verse is a quotation found in Hebrews 11:28 which reads:

    By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them.

    So we can identify the “Destroyer” here to be an Angel, sent by God during the days of Moses and Aaron and their ordeal with Egypt’s Pharaoh.
    With that in mind, the destroyer(s) often relates to enemies of God's people, as is, with those in support of God's people, i.e. angels. in this case. Where does that put Abaddon? Is this person a friend, or is he a foe?

    The Good:

    There are those who later come to understand that Abaddon is an Angel of God, some even assume that Abaddon is the same Angel who had dealt with the Assyrians back in the days of King Hezekiah. Some assume the Angel to be Michael The Archangel, to others, this angel, thus being associated with Michael The Archangel, will say that Abaddon is the Lord himself - Jesus Christ, and the Locust, whom follower their King, are on his side. Abaddon is often spoken of as God's Right Hand.

    The Bad:


    Very early on, since the symbolism of Revelations was not 100% understood, there are those who associate Abaddon with Satan The Devil or some unknown Demon. This also led them to believe that The Devil, or this Demon controls an Army of evil Locusts to cause trouble for God's people.

    What is Abaddon's role and how does the Locust play into all this:

    Abaddon, being the angel of the abyss is very simple - Revelation 9:1-12

    He is the one given the keys to the abyss.
    Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. Not only the Locusts were released, freed from it (Revelations 9:3), it is the same place where Satan the Devil is hurled into the abyss, held in captivity (Revelations 20:3). Some would find this part confusing for if Abaddon was Satan or an ally of Satan, why would he lock up his own boss, with a key given to him? For this point right here is where most of Christendom later changed their understanding, hence restoration, mainly when it came to them having connected Joel and Revelations 100%. Likewise as to the Locust not attacking God's people, or having the spirit poured to them, which rf. Acts 2:39, which drew question and further study as more and more people began to not just read Scripture, but commit themselves to research.
    What are Locusts:

    Locusts are a group of certain species of short-horned grasshoppers in the family Acrididae that have a swarming phase. These insects are usually solitary, but under certain circumstances they become more abundant and change their behavior and habits, becoming gregarious. No taxonomic distinction is made between locust and grasshopper species; the basis for the definition is whether a species forms swarms under intermittently suitable conditions.
    In ancient times, the Study of literature shows how pervasive plagues of locusts were over the course of history. The insects arrived unexpectedly, often after a change of wind direction or weather, and the consequences were devastating. The Ancient Egyptians carved locusts on tombs in the period 2470 to 2220 BC. A devastating plague in Egypt is also mentioned in the Book of Exodus, committed by this swarm. The Iliad mentions locusts taking to the wing to escape fire. Plagues of locusts are also mentioned in the Quran. In the 9th century, the Chinese authorities appointed anti-locust officers, for such a swarm was that intense to deal with.
    Who represents the Locusts:

    Although some are quick to equate these symbolic representations with demons, a scourge of wickedness, an undead army, etc. They fall to see what this represents, mainly due to the fact the Locusts mentioned here do not harm God's people.

    Locusts in figurative use can equate to 2 groups (3 if you count Nahum).

    Babylonians - Joel’s prophecy relates to an attack as shown in Joel 1:6; 2:1, 8, and 11, and this attack is concerning Babylonian soldiers which has been revealed in 2:25 to deal with the Israelites who disobeyed God. The army evidently organized and was able to overwhelm the Israelites like, of which they are described as, a Locust swarm. They overran and ransacked the Israelites' dwelling very quickly. Soldiers of the Babylonian Army.

    The Locust representation although similar they are different, which brings us to God's people.

    God's People - In Revelation 9:1-11. Some in the past connected the Locusts in Joel in relations to the actions and operations of the gospel work, therefore, they make a similar connection in the role of the Locust in the Book of Revelations. The prophecy in question is a swarm of Locusts that  have human faces, adorn golden crowns, and have long hair, and teeth like that of a lion, all going into battle (Revelations 9:7-8) We come to see that they torment those an enemy to God who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. The connection to Joel also reflects life-span, for there is an limited amount of time, a period of 5 months, for these Locusts to commit their act, something of which is also spoken of in commentary, which is no different from life-span of and operations of literal Locusts.

    Words of Nahum concerning Assyrians - Although not the focus, but the representation of Locust can also be equated to The Assyrian Army. Nahum 3:16-17 when they were compared to Locusts that remain in their dwelling in cold weather, thus making them unable to act and remain numb. But the second the sun shines, this will result in them rushing away from their dwelling, fleeing - flying away.

    Between the 2 who [focused] represented as Locusts, there is a difference.

    Reasons why Joel and Revelations connect with each other via references is because [A] Locusts swarm at great numbers [B] They operate and take various actions.
    In this case we can see the differences though, for we have Locusts that attack the Israelites, and the latter only attacks, symbolically, those who are not of God. One swarms as a means to cause problems, the latter, swarms as a means to commit to what God has tasked them. One takes judgement in a way to suppress, the latter proclaims judgement.
    What is there role:

    The events of old had past, however when Satan is locked away in the abyss, those who represent the Locust are to commit to the work - God's people. But their gospel message will not be good news always, but also judgement.
     
    Granted this was talked about for sometime now, everything mentioned is brief, for the other thread was locked due to question dodging.
  20. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in NWT KINGDOM INTERLINEAR TRANSLATION OF THE GREEK SCRIPTURES. 1985   
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/kingdom-interlinear-greek-translation/books/
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/
    I am using the 1985 version of this Interlinear Greek translation by Watchtower, and I'm wondering if there is an updated version or a better version I could be using.  I have hard copy of this, but also I found one on the JW Org website but it didn't have a date of publication, so i don't know if it's a newer one. 
    Also is there a Watchtower approved translation of the Hebrew scriptures ?
    A couple of points though.
    As you will know I believe the scriptures are for the 'true' Anointed and that when Jesus is ready (Jesus has all authority) He will provide Holy Spirit to those of the remnant to guide God's people to truth. 
    Secondly, the words of Jesus recorded Matthew 11 : 25
    Berean Study Bible
    At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
    My thinking runs in line with this scripture above. That God reveals the meaning of scripture to whom HE chooses, and that Jesus now does the same. 
    Hence with all the deep discussion on this forum and those on here that consider themselves wise and learned, I tend to think that no matter how much research one does, and how much one studies languages ect, only God through Christ will give true knowledge. 
    However that does not mean i should be lazy or not study God's word. What it means to me is that I should not expect to understand too much or too deeply. 
    Hence, back to the point, Interlinear Translations that can be trusted ????? And the most up to date ? 
    All information welcome, thank you. 
    Oh and to confess, I still haven't learnt to use Strong's properly yet, but I keep trying.  
  21. Thanks
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    @Srecko Sostar That is a really great explanation and yes, it proves the dangers of that type of 'teaching'.
    We know that people like to have their ears 'tickled', and it seems the GB have found a way of tickling people's ears.
    In fact it seems a very dangerous way forward. The idea of moving away from God's written word. Replacing God's word with play acting. We know that the GB speak falsely when they give talks. How much more will these plays be false. 
  22. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Pudgy in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    Faith is when you believe something that has some overall evidence but not enough to prove it with a reason and logic, or perhaps even textual dating.
    I believe the scripture is true, even though it may well not be.
    I believe the scripture is true, even though it may well not be. 
     
    either way, I’m not up and out on much of a limb.
    I would much rather err on the side of Mercy, than err  on the side of the Pharisees ….. and THAT is where the rubber meets the road !
  23. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to TrueTomHarley in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    So here we see why WItness defends the passage, despite flimsy evidence for it being genuine and strong evidence for it being spurious. She does it to undermine the provision of disfellowshipping.
    There is plenty of reason to not believe it. Though Jesus forgives sin frequently in scripture, there is always some evidence of repentance on the sinning one’s part. There is some basis for forgiveness. Here there is not.
    All that is lacking in the spurious passage is for Jesus to say at the end: “Boy, I can’t believe what a nasty bully my dad is!” 
  24. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    @Srecko Sostar That is a really great explanation and yes, it proves the dangers of that type of 'teaching'.
    We know that people like to have their ears 'tickled', and it seems the GB have found a way of tickling people's ears.
    In fact it seems a very dangerous way forward. The idea of moving away from God's written word. Replacing God's word with play acting. We know that the GB speak falsely when they give talks. How much more will these plays be false. 
  25. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Equivocation in Since everyone is jumping on the Textual Criticism bandwagon...   
    What do you think of the following below, like the other passage that was discussed, these are said to be spurious or forged, be it added or removed, whatever.
    Let's keep this BIBLE SCRIPTURE ONLY, for once this thread needs something neutral instead of the world war III stuff going on, reasons why I asked if ANYONE really changed
    Simply just quote whatever verse or passage, and show your findings. If you have to interact with someone else, only use Scripture and your findings.
    Consider this a Bible based activity.
    Mark 16:9-20 Revelation 1:11 1 Timothy 3:16 1 John 5:7 Acts 10:48 Acts 16:7 Hebrews 1:3 Ephesians 3:9
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