Kick_Faceinator

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I agree with you that God / Christ may have used Russell's work and they may also have used / be using the work of the Watchtower / JW Org.

I want to agree, I wish I could agree, but God wouldn’t have used Russell and is not using the Watchtower simply because of the fact they both are direct opposers of the apostle Paul’s warning to announce the Day of the Lord began before the man of lawlessness was revealed.

Paul warned:

“Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us.” 2 Thessalonians 2:2

The Watchtower and Russell are the opposers of Paul who say it began:

“BACK in 1914, Jesus was installed as King of God’s Kingdom, and the Lord’s day began." - w88 10/15 pp. 15-20

Paul says don’t believe them. Who are we going to believe, the Watchtower, Russell, uninspired men?…or the inspired apostle Paul?

The Watchtower wants us to believe that the man of lawlessness is Christendom, but that is impossible because Paul said the man of lawlessness sits in the temple of God.

“Don’t be fooled by what they say [the Watchtower and Russell]. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

We know the temple of God are the anointed, not Christendom.

“Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?” 1 Corinthians 3:16

So unless Christendom is somehow filled with Gods anointed ones that make up Gods temple, there’s only one place the man of lawlessness can possibly be sitting right now…

1914 is Satans game.

“This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs [1914, world war 1, 2] and miracles.,” 2 Thessalonians 2:9

Satans got them by the throat. The whole Watchtower societies existence is contingent upon 1914 being true, but the fact is, the whole entire organization of Jehovahs witnesses, is a lie.

“For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie” 2 Thessalonians 2:11

If God we’re using the watchtower, he would be supporting the man of lawlessness, Satans man.

3 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Romans 16:17
 

New International Version
I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

New Living Translation
And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people’s faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them.

English Standard Version
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Berean Study Bible
Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them.

“Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.” - Jesus Christ, Luke 12:51

Uh oh…

21 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Whoever  did it could see it was causing disruptions and unnecessarily contentions and debating proving fruitless……and none of it promoting peace  amongst brothers

Finding truth calls for a division amongst brothers and sisters so we can know who has Jehovah’s approval, and who does not.

“But, of course, there must be divisions among you so that you who have God’s approval will be recognized!” 1 Corinthians 11:19

8 hours ago, WyattEarp said:

Can you simply throw away sensitive data for dumpster pirates to harvest?

Discarding books/data shouldn’t even be a topic of discussion for anyone teaching who is connected to Jesus Christ. You shouldn’t have to throw any teachings away if the branch teaching them was connected to the vine of Jesus Christ (John 15:5), they should have lasted forever as Jesus says those that teach who are in connection with him will have teachings that will last and never need to be changed/thrown away (John 15:16). The problem isn’t discarding the data, it’s way bigger in that, this proves the watchtower leadership hasn’t been connected to Jesus Christ in the first place. Their teachings are going rotten within a matter of a couple years and proves their publications are nothing more than farce.

“Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’” - Matthew 15:9

I got it. Randomly I’ll hear Bill Gates whisper sweet nothings in my ear telling me to buy more Microsoft products, it’s a weird side effect, but on the plus side I grew an extra set of limbs making me much more productive at work. I’m hoping I’ll be a candidate for employee of the month now.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

Is there a possibility that, the number, 144000 should not be taken literally?

You may be right,

“And the number of the people of Israel will be like the grains of sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ it will be said to them, ‘The sons of the living God.” Hosea 1:10

4 hours ago, Anna said:

In context, Jesus at Luke 21:8  is talking about a person's impersonating or saying they are the expected Messiah during the time of the end. Russell did no such thing.

Thank you for the reply Anna.

And you’re right, Russell didn’t impersonate the expected messiah.

Unfortunately, the poor guy fell into the same trap many other men have fallen victim of in proclaiming Christ’s presence began before the “man of lawlessness” has been revealed.

“However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you  2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.” 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

24 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Here we go, another person mixing Bible Students with JW understanding.

 

It’s not just the Bible students, the witnesses keep repeating the same exact message.

6 hours ago, Anna said:

In all the years as a JW (over 35) I have yet to find something intrinsically bad written in any of our publications. Mistakes yes, but nothing that would make you sin against God. The way Witness and others go on makes it sound like the organization is a harlot. By being unreasonable, these oposers lose credit. She mentions wrong expectations as something horribly sinful, and calls it false prophesying. And yet all the ones that have been hurt by it are those who have put more faith in men than in God. Yes, it is difficult sometimes to go against the grain. I have heard stories about how those who weren't buying into 1975 were looked down on and told they have little faith. (they must have felt pretty vindicated when nothing happened in 75). But what really was the problem? It was something good to look forward to and although some were skeptical I am sure they wouldn't have been upset if they were wrong and paradise had really come in 75. JWs have not stopped looking forward to it (the new world). That is part of being a Christian, looking forward to the paradise. Today many are anticipating something might happen very soon. Some are speculating covid-19 might be the beginning of the GT. We can only hope. But if nothing happens even up to the day we die, what has been lost? Jehovah promises thst his loyal servants will not be forgotten. And who is trying to encourage all to live by Bible standards, keep Jehovah on their mind with everything they do in life and preach the Good News, so that they are not forgotten?  The very organization that Witnesss hates, and says is so evil. @Witness all your criticism is about the imperfections of man. You might as well criticize all those who failed in Bible times as well. Criticize Moses for his presumtiousness, criticize Aaron for his weakness and excuses, criticize Job for his wrong thoughts, criticize David for his lack of control, criticize Jonah for his disobedience, criticize all of Jesus' disciples.

You are like a modern day Diotrephese.

Jesus commanded us to not go after anyone who claims the end is here, aka “the time is at hand”.

“And he said, “See that you are not led astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.” Luke 21:8

According to Jesus, we are commanded to not listen to the governing body, we are commanded to not listen to JW’s, and we are commanded to not listen to anyone else who’s proclaiming the one message Jesus said to not proclaim, “the time is at hand”. If we do listen to these men, it proves we are being disobedient to Jesus. Is it really something so simple as a wrong prediction, or, is it rather a blatant disregard for Jesus’ command?

4 hours ago, Witness said:

 

Isa 10:20 - "On that day the remnant of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no longer depend on the one who struck them, but they will faithfully depend on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel."

Are the remnant of Israel the chosen covenant and the survivors of the house of Jacob the unchosen? Or do both groups refer to the chosen covenant?

9 minutes ago, xero said:

Not necessarily. The WTBTS understands the former point correctly, however they're not dogmatic about whom might be in each group.

"...I could be arguing in my spare time"

Not really. Somewhere down the line watchtower got mixed up in thinking their organization can offer the same salvation as Jesus Christ. According to the Bible, it’s only Jesus Christ who can save. “Only Jesus has the power to save! His name is the only one in all the world that can save anyone” Acts 4:12 [CEV]

9 hours ago, Anna said:

You are getting confused. The role of the elders is to help shepherd the sheep and protect the flock, not to judge who will gain everlasting life and who will not. If someone is disfellowshipped it is on account of known unrepentant wrong doing and according to the scriptures. Since the elders cannot read hearts, the ultimate judge will be Jesus. Which means that possibly some who are disfellowshipped may be judged worthy of life. Thankfully Jesus' got this, and if we're doing all we can to be finally found by him spotless, unblemished and in peace, no one has anything to worry about.

The Watchtower teaches:

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

According to Watchtower doctrine, this means all those disfellowshipped by the elder body and announced from the platform as “no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”, would ultimately be sentenced to death stripping any future prospect of life for that person. In effect, the elder body actually believe they have the right to “save your soul”.

2 hours ago, xero said:

So you simply want to disobey Jesus and go on with your unauthorized weeding. You left the organization because you wanted to weed it. Guess what? Not your job. Not only that, you wouldn't know what you know about the bible w/o it.

Hey, thank for the link. The witnesses believe they are above the superior authorities somehow. Jehovah put these governments in place for the witnesses to be “in subjection” to, (Romans 13:1), but somehow they don’t believe this. What can you expect though, their own governing body disrespects Jehovah by fighting the superior authorities that He put in place as they hire powerful lawyers, lie their way out of court cases and do anything and everything in their power so they don’t have to be in subjection to them. Just look at the way they’ve handled CSA cases.