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Kick_Faceinator got a reaction from Dmitar in Like the Days of Noah...
That’s like a Canaanite taking the emblems and proclaiming they’re anointed by Ba’al, it doesn’t work, nor even mean it’s the genuine temple Paul was speaking of. Paul spoke of one temple, the anointed body of Christ which is currently only present in the organization of JW’s and is the only one Jesus Christ will even recognize at his coming.
The governing body and their weapon of elders do this very well.
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Kick_Faceinator got a reaction from Dmitar in Like the Days of Noah...
You raise extremely valid questions.
There is no cleaning that organization. As Srecko pointed out Job 14:4 “Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one!”
The disgusting thing standing in the holy place is the same entity as the man of lawlessness sitting in the temple.
“Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing (2 Thess 2:4- Man of Lawlessness) that causes desolation (Dan 12:11) as spoken about by Daniel the prophet (Dan 11:31), standing in a holy place (1 Cor 3:16 - The Temple), (let the reader use discernment),” - Mt 24:15
When you discern it, Jesus told us to flee.
“then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.” Mt 24:16
This is why the woman/anointed body of Christ flees to the wilderness.
“And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days” Rev 12:6
Gotta flee Babylon The Great (Rev 18:4).
I can’t speak for others, but I believe the anointed are inside the JW organization because there comes a time when certain individuals “advanced over the whole earth [door knocking, proclaiming Luke 21:8] and encircled the camp of the holy ones”.
9 And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones/anointed and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them.” Rev 20:7-9
I believe Gog and Ma’gog aren’t political entities, but rather a religious organization that goes door to door.
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Kick_Faceinator got a reaction from Dmitar in Like the Days of Noah...
Where does the temple lay right now?
It's in the organization of jw's.
When Jesus comes back the man of lawlessness will be presently sitting in the temple, not sitting in the temple of anointed almost 2000 years ago. He sits in the temple of today, right at this moment. That is when Jesus exposes him and destroys him. It's at his coming.
"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming." 2 Thessalonians 2:8
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Like the Days of Noah...
I agree with what you say that the Anointed are God's temple. The scriptures make that very clear to those that want to understand it.
But why do people believe that the JW Org holds every member of the anointed remnant ?
And what do you think will be the way out ? Will the JW Org be cleansed or will a new Association be formed ?
We certainly need a True Anointed remnant to lead us to truth through Christ, before the 'end comes'.
It might be nice to think we can do it on our own as individuals, but I really think we need to be part of an association.
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Kick_Faceinator got a reaction from Dmitar in Like the Days of Noah...
The man of lawlessness sits in the temple of God:
“He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.” 2 Thessalonians 2:4
The temple are the anointed:
“Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you?” 1 Cor 3:16
By suggesting the man of lawlessness sits in false religion, that would mean the true temple of the anointed body of Christ are all residing in false religion/Christendom. That would be a serious problem. The man of lawlessness sits in the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses because the organization holds every single temple member right now.
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Kick_Faceinator got a reaction from Witness in Like the Days of Noah...
The man of lawlessness sits in the temple of God:
“He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.” 2 Thessalonians 2:4
The temple are the anointed:
“Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you?” 1 Cor 3:16
By suggesting the man of lawlessness sits in false religion, that would mean the true temple of the anointed body of Christ are all residing in false religion/Christendom. That would be a serious problem. The man of lawlessness sits in the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses because the organization holds every single temple member right now.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Like the Days of Noah...
Um, I think this might be what @Arauna calls 'lumping scriptures together'.
And I think Mr Rambo is clutching at straws here. He's still stuck fast to 1914 and the 120 years = 2034.
This seems to have already happened to JWs in Russia and a few other places.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Was Jesus Anointed at His baptism ?
Thank you, but I have little or no trust in the Aid book
So that would say, that as I've said, Jesus was King from his baptism onward and the Kingdom was in existence here on Earth at that time. But neither I nor the Watchtower / Aid book writers are inspired of God's Holy Spirit.
But we come back to the point, that if, it appointed and commissioned him as Jehovah’s promised King, then and there at His baptism, then why do the Watchtower / GB / Org say he was made King in 1914 ?
From that same item you quoted / linked :-
"Following his resurrection, Jesus informed his disciples, “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” thereby showing that he heads a government of universal domain. (Matt. 28:18) The apostle Paul made clear that Jesus’ Father has “left nothing that is not subject to him [Jesus],” with the evident exception of “the one who subjected all things to him,” that is, Jehovah, the Sovereign God. "
But, Jesus spoke those words whilst still human and here on earth. So it seems that whomever wrote this Watchtower Aid book section would have known that Jesus was King whilst Jesus was alive here on earth.
So please tell me about 1914 ? What am I not understanding ?
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in Was Jesus Anointed at His baptism ?
Joel 3:14 - Multitudes, multitudes
in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near
in the valley of decision.
We know that God isn't talking about a literal valley called "decision" in the last days. We must "decide" within our heart what to choose - truth or lies - life in Christ, or death in the darkness of Satan's "world".
"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" Deut 3:19
One war, we will physically see. That one is Satan’s diversion from the spiritual war at hand – the vital war to note. Although war began when Adam and Eve chose to listen to the lie, (Gen 3:15) the symbolic book of Revelation (Rev 1:1) explains what the culmination of this war is. It is the war against those “kings” in Christ, and those who have left him to serve the father of the LIE. (John 8:44) They have broken their covenant with God by tolerating falsehoods spoken from the mouths of false prophets and a powerful organization that rules over them. (Isa 28:15; Hos 8:1; 4:6) (Matt 24:24, 15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3) They are spiritual harlots. (Hos 4:12;6:10; Rev 17:3-8)
This is hostility between covenants and their “seed”, one of life in Jesus Christ and one of death under the Destroyer. (Gen 3:15; Rev 12:17) Armageddon involves the “kings of the earth” – which means those who will be found faithful, and those who have transgressed their covenant in Christ. That’s what’s important to notice! It doesn’t involve the political kings of the world.
Rev 1:5 explains that the kings of the earth are Christ’s kings. (Rev 5:9,10) Rev 6:15; 16:14; 17:2; 17:18; 18:3; 18:9; 19:19; 21:24 then continues to describe the war involving his faithful kings and the unfaithful kings - https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=KJV&quicksearch=kings+of+the+earth&begin=73&end=73
These scriptures give the essence of the end battle of Armageddon:
Rev 16:13-16 – “And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.”
You’ve always said, the Bible was written for the anointed. Well, that includes the battle of Armageddon, but I say it is written about the anointed, and those with them who must heed the meaning of Revelation in the last days. (Rev 18:4-8)
What comes out of the mouth of false prophets, but lies? The two Beasts of Revelation work together; the false prophet directs the Beast from the Sea, that rises up from the wicked. (Isa 17:12-14; 57:20,21) Under the direction of governing leaders, this Beast “makes war with the saints.” (Rev 13:1,2,4-7,11,12,15)
The war includes JWs with them, those of the “whole world”. It is based on one’s decision to listen to truth, or to listen to lies coming from the mouths of these “kings”.
Yes, knowing that Satan has a short period of time left, (Rev 12:12) he will devise a military diversion tactic from the most important war at hand – the spiritual war. (1 Pet 5:8; 2 Cor 10:4; Eph 6:11; 1 John 4:4) We see what the governing leadership has always concentrated on – the world’s politics, military conflict and a literal “king of the north”. They put the blame continually on Christendom’s sins. That takes the heat off of what “trampling” is happening to God’s saints in the organization. (Dan 11:31-45) This lying tactic has been very successful. God’s holy people are under a “spell” – but it is their choice, their decision to remain with it. (1 Tim 4:1) Only by God reading our hearts and bestowing His grace to see us safely out, can one survive. (Isa 42:16; Rev 16:12; Rom 8:19)
Our hearts are sealed by our decision to search for justice and truth, or to love the lie. (2 Thess 2:9-12) Only a remnant of the anointed will be found to escape this trap – only a remnant of JWs who leaves Satan’s darkness, turn to Christ. That has always been the case with God’s people when they have transgressed His decrees. (Rom 9:27-29; Rev 11:1-3,7-10)
You’ve entered the “valley of decision” and have decided to reject lies. You have cut yourself off from false teachers and are looking for truth to be spoken through faithful anointed. You have “come out of her” (Rev 18:4) where spiritual harlots sit on “many waters”, which are poisoned teachings and those who drink them up. (Rev 8;10,11; 17:15) Their defense is to call the faithful, the apostates. D. Splane’s latest talk to be available on the website this coming week, is about apostate “teachers” with “poisoned teachings”. The GB, who obviously endorse lies, are fighting back with the faithful anointed ones very words used against them.
Can you see how this is war against “kings” and what comes out of their mouths?
God is not the destroyer. He can pass the decree that destruction is to take place, and He can also limit destruction as we see in the example of Job. We also see that it was Satan who came against Job; and it will be Satan in his rage, who destroys the “earth”, until God says enough is enough. (Dan 7:26-28) Satan is raging against the anointed in Christ, NOW. I can’t even describe the extent, the destruction that Satan has caused in my physical life since leaving the organization. Presently, I am evacuated from my home because of fires that are being held up as lack of diligence on the forest service’s part. They will face litigation. But the house still stands despite all incredible odds. God knows just how much we can tolerate, as in Job’s case.
The primary war at hand is Satan’s lust to destroy the “woman’s seed”; both those faithful and those in his trap such as you were in, where he has “surrounded” them. Rev 20:7-9 A literal war in Satan’s world could last for years and years and never give “birth” to Kingdom. (Job 14:4) What does bring the Kingdom, is the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise in the faithful, cleansed, anointed remnant and the completion of the Temple of God in Christ. (Zech 4:6,7; Mal 3:1-5)
Do JWs realize this? No, they believe their organization will survive a physical onslaught and be present in the Kingdom of God, its buildings included. Their view is totally physical. Notice in 1 Cor 6:6-10 who the "rulers" were that could not perceive the spiritual wisdom of God, and who killed Jesus Christ. Today's "rulers" "kill"/disfellowship the faithful anointed in Christ - men who have no spiritual wisdom.
JWs believe they are “safe” without even noticing the trampling of God’s priesthood under the covenant “woman” which is being attacked. (1 Thess 5:3; Rev 12:1-5)
God removes His spiritual protection from those who refuse to turn back to Him, and Satan is allowed to step in. This is how the nation of Israel suffered when sinning and committing idolatry.
We also have evidence of who did the destroying, brought the plagues, and killed the firstborn in Egypt.
“He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.” Ps 78:49
“For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer (meaning “grant”) the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.” Exod 12:23
The Kingdom will not arrive until the “harvest” of the sons of God is complete – the harvest of those in Christ who are faithful, and the harvest of the weeds that face condemnation by God’s Word. (Matt 13:24-39) Any person who has lived, and anyone on the earth right now, both the good and the bad, will be judged by the Father in righteousness. That, we leave up to God.
What’s important for JWs, is their decision to either continue to listen to the lies that their leaders tell them, or to search out truth that Christ is providing – outside of the apostate city. (John 16:2; Heb 13:13; Rev 13:15) That truth, is the understanding of Revelation – the “wedding banquet of the Lamb”. (Matt 22:1-14; 25:1-13) We know that the temple in the anointed has been “given over to the Gentiles”/elders. Yet, the GB somehow say the “temple” of 2 Thess 2:3,4 being trampled, is some sort of literal holy place…where, the UN and Christendom is involved? It specifically states in 2 Thess 2:3,4, that it is God’s temple being dominated/trampled. On the other hand, they tell every JW that they ARE NOW the spiritual temple. This is confusion from conniving false teachers, that I believe are preparing to produce “new light” about 2 Thess 2:3,4. If all JWs are taught now as God’s Temple, how easily they can then point to a physical nation coming against JWs, as the “man of lawlessness”. Blasphemy.
As far as the earth being ruined? It can be applied in a few ways: The first “earth” being ruined is God’s land/His dwelling in the hearts of the anointed, by the man of lawlessness who has trampled down His dwelling place/temple in the anointed. 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3 Revelation speaks of the great locust scorpion army/elder body that afflicts God’s unsealed anointed. Notice what it says,
“They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.” These elements of the earth can refer to people, to JWs. Every person in the organization who stands against the elder army are afflicted. (Rev 9:1-6)
Yet any destruction of the literal earth by the destroyer, will be restored to life. What is the primary destruction that Christ will cause? He will destroy death. (1 Cor 15:26; Rev 20:10,14,15). When Christ returns, the man of lawlessness is destroyed by the “breath of his mouth”, the Word of God, which is like “fire”. ( 2 Thess 2:8; Jer 23:29; Rev 20:10,14,15)
God’s Word is the judge. He can surrender us to perish under the covenant of death; or we are protected under the covenant of “life” in Jesus Christ, even if we lose our physical life. (John 1:4; 10:10; 6:58)
“Woe to you, destroyer, you who have not been destroyed! Woe to you, betrayer, you who have not been betrayed! When you stop destroying, you will be destroyed; when you stop betraying, you will be betrayed.” Isa 33:1
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/10/when-is-satans-short-period-of-time.html
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
How is it cowardly? Are you a prophet? Can you verify this, if you are? Have you had a vision? Num 12:6
Or, are you conjuring up a date just as your “fathers” have, out of the personal motives of your heart?
"How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?" Jer 23:26
Since you uphold false prophets, we can easily assume that you are one also. (Matt 7:28) According to the word of God, there is no need to listen to your prediction. (Jer 23:16)
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
Good point.
So why did D. Splane decide to pursue JW forums and the topic of apostasy?
Well, this letter must have struck a harsh chord with the GB. Pearl Doxsey has been exposing the leadership for many years, and I joined her around 2013-14. But Rachel’s letter reaching elders at kingdom halls, branch offices and headquarters world-wide, most likely was the icing on the cake.
https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/88999-defining-apostasy/
They can’t hide their sins anymore. They can only plead with JWs to stay away from sites such as this one.
I will echo his words but direct them toward JWs who reside with false prophets – “We are not so strong, so spiritual, so intelligent, that we cannot be affected by the poison of apostate ideas.”
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
Russell and the IBSA were NO part of the JW world. It was Rutherford that 'stole' part of the association from the IBSA and, against the previous wishes of Russell, changed the whole way of running that Association, turning it into an Organsation. Why JWs quote Russell, who was nothing to do with them, I do not know.
Yes the Leaders / GB / Watchtower / JW Org has indeed been cowardly over the last 100 + years.
Pretending that Armageddon was coming in 1941, early 70's, before the end of the century (2000). And pretending that a person must be a baptised JW to be saved.
It's called fear mongering and yes it's very cowardly.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
On contrary, JW publications claims how all other religious web pages outside of WTJWorg and many other secular pages that not supports WTJWorg teachings are apostates and/or enemies of ..., but in same time producing and multiplying own apostasy on various issues.
Example of apostasy is visible in this:
In WTJWorg preaching, several Endings of Last Days have been coming during these 140 years. Such teachings are in fact apostasy for several reasons. One of striking piece of evidence is that their announcements were never fulfilled.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
Yes, even those leaving the organization submit to the Father and Jesus for a good “cleaning” through repentance, for our time of listening to lies and falling into idolatry - that an organization built by men could lead anyone to salvation. (Acts 4:12) When we leave, we begin to perceive the distinction between what is true and what is not, and what it means to practice righteous worship to the Father. (Heb 10:22)
I have heard a small bit of D. Splane’s talk on JW forums and otherwise, and how they effect JWs. I’m curious how JWs here would respond to that, since he said JWs who participate, “are not good for one another”. In other words, JWs cannot think for themselves, help each other spiritually, but must listen to these men who stumble over their own doctrine.
He said apostasy is “rot from within” – spiritual poison. (Matt 7:15-20; Luke 6:45) He continued to say, it is hard to recognize apostasy and to avoid it. He mentioned “teachers” could destroy our faith, which I found his use of “teachers” interesting. There are anointed teachers outside of the organization who are threatening the position of the GB and exposing their poison. We can definitely point the finger right back at the “teachers” on the GB, as the apostates instead.
Another point he made was that “not many get deliberately involved with apostates, and that they ‘had no idea that apostates were behind it.’ “It’s tricky, because the apostates don’t advertise you are now on an apostate web page”
1 Tim 4:1 - "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
We have access to one extensive, widely known web page where the teachings are not consistent, but take twists and turns – tight switchbacks on their path of “new light”, that still lead one down a rabbit hole of darkness. Only through deception can one still "love" such teachings over the truth in Jesus Christ. 2 Thess 2:9-12
I have yet to listen to his entire talk. If only JWs would realize that they are breathing and drinking in, the doctrines of apostates.
Rev 8:10,11
Apostasy
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Pudgy in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
I guess a good way to know is by being able to count how many outside people show up at the ZOOM meetings.
I have noticed more “regulars” are showing up with sharper webcams, and green screens, or virtual backgrounds.
I do wish they would adjust the camera angles so as not to emphasize neck waddles and nose hair.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
This verse is also useful to show how funny, how ridiculous it sounds when JW literature talks about “cleansing within an organization” in some specific time periods that were a turning point for the WTJWorg Administration.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14:4
What experience does God have with an organized form of religion? For centuries, the Israeli congregation struggled in conditions that eventually ended with two destructions of the Temple, prophesied by God, and perhaps, to put it this way, caused by God. Further, The First Christian Assembly was diluted into various denominations of Christianity. Also, the current WTJWorg organization, which is claimed to be the only true successor to the First Christian Assembly, is grappling with doctrinal and instructional-organizational lies and errors.
I would say this way: God does not fix what is wrong, but always seeks a new solution to every new problem.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
I think it's a few years away yet. God or Jesus Christ has to either cleanse the JW Org or form a new 'Association of Brothers'.
To cleanse the JW Org the CSA problem would need completely removing, and it's not enough just to do that, but it has to 'be seen to be done'. The public would have to KNOW that the JW Org had God's approval. '10 men clinging to the skirt of a JEW' The GB would have to hand over that Pedophile Database which they are pretending doesn't exist. Then ALL the pedophiles in the Org would have to face their crimes, probably in court rooms.
Yes it would take God's Holy Spirit to cleanse the JW Org or to form a new Association of Brother, but it has to be done to give people a chance of 'coming to know God properly' before the Judgement.
JWs cannot grasp that people know about the CSA / Pedophile problem in the JW Org, and it is a BIG STUMBLING BLOCK to people. So, the GB and their 'helpers' are blood guilty because they have created this stumbling block.
Luke 17 : 1, Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Matthew 13 Wheat and weeds, and, when and where is the Kingdom ?
I laughed, but in reality it's very sad.
Then he said to his disciples: “Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few. 38 Therefore, beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.”
This was in the time Jesus was here on Earth. Why can't the GB / Leaders see this ?
Because they are not guided or inspired of God's Holy Spirit
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to JW Insider in Matthew 13 Wheat and weeds, and, when and where is the Kingdom ?
I agree with you 100% that it's possible to mix them up. In fact, "@Patiently. . ." was on the right track when he asked:
Specifically, when Jesus said "the harvest is great" he seems to refer to the importance and urgency of the preaching work during any time in history. There was an urgency during the first century and there is an urgency now.
However, when Jesus said, "the harvest is the synteleia of the age" (NWT: "the harvest is a conclusion of the system of the things" this was specifically using the term "harvest" in the sense of a final gathering up of those "chosen" (the wheat) from among the "weeds."
As you said, separate illustrations don't have to be referring to the exact same aspect of an idea, just because the subject appears to be the same.
I should have acknowledged @Patiently's original question more clearly rather than by just saying ". . . this 'harvest' (or perhaps, 'a harvest') . . . "
To me, and you, there is no reason to mix the meanings of the general "preaching" harvest and the "end-times" gathering of the wheat and weeds (or the gathering/harvest of the chosen ones). But this doesn't mean there is no connection. In fact, even though we've had this conversation before where this separation between two harvests has already been made, I was still acknowledging that there is a logical connection, as the Watchtower publications have also claimed.
In the God's Kingdom Rules book for example, chapter 9 contains the following discussion, which also ties together these same verses (which you might claim was like mixing up Cinderella and Little Red Riding Hood).
*** kr chap. 9 pp. 88-95 pars. 5-21 Results of Preaching—“The Fields . . . Are White for Harvesting” ***
In a vision given to the apostle John, Jehovah reveals that he assigned Jesus to take the lead in a global harvest of people. (Read Revelation 14:14-16.) In this vision, Jesus is described as having a crown and a sickle. The “golden crown on [Jesus’] head” confirms his position as ruling King. The “sharp sickle in his hand” confirms his role as Harvester. By stating through an angel that “the harvest of the earth is fully ripe,” Jehovah emphasizes that the work is urgent. Indeed, “the hour has come to reap”—there is no time for delay! In response to God’s command “put your sickle in,” Jesus thrusts in his sickle, and the earth is reaped—that is, people of the earth are reaped. This exciting vision reminds us that again “the fields . . . are white for harvesting.” Does this vision help us to determine when this global harvest began? Yes!
6 Since John’s vision in Revelation chapter 14 shows Jesus, the Harvester, wearing a crown (verse 14), his appointment as King in 1914 had already taken place. (Dan. 7:13, 14) Sometime after that, Jesus is commanded to start the harvest (verse 15). The same order of events is seen in Jesus’ parable about the harvest of the wheat, where he states: “The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things.” Thus, the harvest season and the conclusion of this system of things began at the same time—in 1914. Later “in the harvest season,” the actual harvesting began. (Matt. 13:30, 39) [Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’” . . . and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels.] Looking back from our vantage point in time, we can see that the harvest began some years after Jesus started ruling as King. First, from 1914 until the early part of 1919, Jesus carried out a cleansing work among his anointed followers. . . . Then, in 1919, “the harvest of the earth” began. Without delay, Jesus used the newly appointed faithful slave to help our brothers see the urgency of the preaching work. . . . Since 1919, zealous harvest workers have been gathered into the restored Christian congregation. . . .
20 In the first century, Jesus helped his apostles to see that the harvest work was urgent. From 1919 onward, Jesus has helped his modern-day disciples to grasp the same truth. In response, God’s people have intensified their activities. In fact, the harvest work has proved to be unstoppable. As foretold by the prophet Malachi, the preaching work is being carried out today “from the rising of the sun to its setting.” (Mal. 1:11) Yes, from sunrise to sunset—from east to west, no matter where they are on earth—sowers and reapers work and rejoice together. And from sunrise to sunset—from morning till evening, or all day long—we work with a sense of urgency.
21 As we look back today over some 100 years and see how a small group of God’s servants has grown into “a mighty nation,” our heart does indeed “throb and overflow” with joy. (Isa. 60:5, 22) May that joy and our love for Jehovah, “the Master of the harvest,” impel each one of us to keep on doing our share in completing the greatest harvest of all time!—Luke 10:2. [Then he said to them: “Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few. Therefore, beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.]
The chapter in "kr" also tried to deal with the problem of timing in order to date the harvest of the conclusion of the system of things beginning after Jesus becomes king, and showing that the harvest would begin some time later. The article times these two events at 1914 and 1919, of course.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in The Good News of God's Kingdom...
Another prophecy/chronology/dateology from JW members? I guess you have some date in mind when that "final" message will be delivered to people.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Matthew 13 Wheat and weeds, and, when and where is the Kingdom ?
Matthew 9 : 37 & 38
Then he said to his disciples: “Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few. 38 Therefore, beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.”
is and are, are present tense, so is this the same harvest mentioned in both scriptures ?
It would seem that the harvesting work started whilst Jesus was still here on Earth with his disciples. Does that mean that 'the conclusion of the system' also started at that same time ?
Also, John 10 : 16
16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold, those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
Does this mean that Jesus had also started gathering people that were not going to be anointed ones ? Was Jesus also harvesting the 'non-anointed' whilst he was on Earth ?
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Matthew 13 Wheat and weeds, and, when and where is the Kingdom ?
We will have to agree to differ on this.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Matthew 13 Wheat and weeds, and, when and where is the Kingdom ?
Well i am quite surprised, that you and many others believe what 8 men tell you to believe just because they CALL THEMSELVES the Faithful and Discreet Slave, and they tell you to believe 'that God and Christ trusts them'.
Your GB back tracked by saying that they are not inspired by God. But still you hang on their every word.
The world of JWs must be even more one-dimensional because they have to believe and serve their GB through the Elders, and by doing so JWs have to cling to 1914 because they are TOLD to believe it.
so yes, leave it at that.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Was Jesus Anointed at His baptism ?
Please bear in mind I'm 71 and I've forgotten more than I can remember. So here I am pondering on a few things, such as :-
When Jesus was baptised by John (Luke 3 : 21 & 22 )
21 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up, 22 and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”
Luke 4. 1. Then Jesus, full of holy spirit, turned away from the Jordan, and he was led about by the spirit in the wilderness 2 for 40 days, ..................
Was Jesus anointed by God at His baptism ? It would seem that Jesus did not have the holy spirit previously.
Now, if Jesus was anointed at His baptism, did He also become King ( of the Kingdom) at the same time ?
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The 120 in the Upper room. The way Acts is written seems rather strange. For instance : - Acts 1
12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from a mountain called the Mount of Olives, which is near Jerusalem, only a sabbath day’s journey away. 13 When they arrived, they went up into the upper room where they were staying. There were Peter as well as John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bar·tholʹo·mew and Matthew, James the son of Al·phaeʹus and Simon the zealous one, and Judas the son of James. 14 With one purpose all of these were persisting in prayer, together with some women and Mary the mother of Jesus and with his brothers.
15 During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (the number of people was altogether about 120)
Acts 2 : 1 Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place.
So here we have three different ideas : 'When they arrived',,, During those days,, while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress. But it seems that the 120 were the same ones mentioned in Acts 1 : 12 - 14. and the same ones mentioned in Acts 2 : 1.
So, were these 120 anointed by Jesus at that time ? Acts 2 :
2, Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.
Did these 120 become part of the Kingdom at that time ?
We know that Jesus said that the Kingdom was already here, when he was on Earth. Recorded at Luke 17 : 20 - 21
20 On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming, he answered them: “The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness 21 nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.”
If Jesus was referring to Himself as King of the Kingdom, it would still prove that He had been made King by God at that time. Otherwise Jesus was not telling the truth.
I will continue to ponder and add to this later.
( I don't want anyone that has fixed ideas about the Kingdom being set up in 1914 to rant on this topic, thank you. You yourself know that Jesus said the Kingdom was already established before that date.)