-
Posts
44 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
2
Reputation Activity
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
What exactly are the “fundamental doctrines” for JW members?
Are they clearly visible and enumerated, in the Bible as a whole text? Or are these specific teachings of Jesus Christ? Or are these important doctrines that are an integral part of the JW religion?
If something is called fundamental, then there may be a few things, maybe five, maybe ten, that are the basis for everything else. As far as I can remember, Jesus said quite clearly what is most important in the religious life of a believer, that is, in the "religion" he promoted. He said, Love God and love people the same way.
The very thesis you are trying to advocate, and that is, that core doctrines are correct, automatically means that you have doctrines that are not fundamental. And what’s worse, that these unimportant doctrines aren’t accurate, they’re wrong, maybe even false. So where will that take you? Some of you are concerned with ratios, so they say most doctrines are correct and a minority are not. Or vice versa.
How many fundamental doctrines are there in the teachings of Jesus? How many less important doctrines are there in the teachings of Jesus? How many subsequently interpreted teachings or “beliefs clarified” are there in Jesus ’teaching? Why has WTJWorg GB put itself in a situation of multiplying teachings that it subsequently revises, instead of sticking solely to “core doctrines” whose source is Jesus and not some people in the Organization? Why don't JW members recognize Jesus' legacy, but are willing to repeatedly follow people who have proven to be generators, promoters, and stewards of wrong/false teachings?
And if we are already talking about the ratios of accuracy and inaccuracy, truth and falsehood in the religious and administrative doctrine of the Organization, then you really need to worry about yourself and your part in promoting inaccurate and incorrect, false interpretations and teachings as you preach your beliefs to other people. Reminder for illustration: Does the Organization have a division into priests and lay people? If you say no then you are not telling the truth. And another important question: Is this doctrine about priests and lay people a “core doctrine” or not?
Given the new “overlapping generation” interpretation you will not die in this “system of things” but in some other/future system, and whether you will die old and content depends only on you as individuals.
But I do hope how "overlapping generation" is not part of your "core doctrine".
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in DEFINING APOSTASY
“For He has brought low those who dwell on high, the unassailable city;
He lays it low, He lays it low to the ground, He casts it to the dust." Isa 26:5
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base ("ignoble") things of the world and the things which are despised ("least esteemed") God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence." 1 Cor 1:27-29
The "mountainlike organization" will fall, because of its sins against God's holy people. The restored spiritual Temple/Zion, will be exalted. (Matt 17:11)
So he answered and said to me:
“This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:
‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
Says the Lord of hosts.
7 ‘Who are you, O great mountain?
Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain!
And he shall bring forth the capstone
With shouts of “Grace, grace to it!” ’ ” Zech 4:6,7
Rev 18:4-8
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in DEFINING APOSTASY
So, you are saying that the anointed women in the organization, are not priests, but the men are? I don’t see anywhere in scriptures segregating the holy priesthood into males as priests and women as...? (1 Pet 2:5,9)
“So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” Gal 3:26-20
Being “one” in the Body of Christ does not mean they have no designation as physically male or female. The “living stones” of this Body have been given various gifts. (Col 12; Eph 4:4-13) One gift, is prophesying, which is teaching; one is specifically teaching. There were anointed women prophesying/teaching in the first century.
Acts 21:8-10 - "On the next day we who were Paul’s companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. 10 And as we stayed many days, a certain prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. Acts 21:8-10
“Let us move forward in time to the example of Christ.
Jesus corrected and defied this practice of spurning women, even doing so with a Samaritan woman. He both spoke to her and touched her, which broke that Law twice. He asked her questions and listened to her answers, also breaking this Law (John 4:7-27). He had women as friends (John 11:5,20), including a former Harlot (Luke 7:36-50). He anointed women, and is still doing so today (1 Pet 3:7; Acts 1:14; 2:1-4,18,33).
Anointed women are to be among the "two witnesses"; ...anointed that he will "cause" to "prophesy" (Rev 11:3-5) during the last days (Acts 2:17; Rev 1:10).
We read at Rev 6:9-11, that both men and women...
["brothers and sisters" - Greek word for brothers and sisters
(adelphoi) refers here to believers, both men and women,
as part of God’s family; also in Rev 12:10; 19:10]
..."killed" (disfellowshipped) for giving their testimony. Women cannot testify, if they are silent.
Should Women Teach - http://pearl-womenteach.blogspot.com/
Have you ever thought that God is choosing women to speak up and proclaim the sins of His people for a reason? Men in your organization lord it over women, unlike Jesus Christ.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in DEFINING APOSTASY
Yes indeed. and we see it more so in the JW Org. The GB that has gone beyond their position and want more than they deserve. THAT GB call THEMSELVES the Faithful and Discreet Slave, showing complete rebelliousness.
The GB then tells the Anointed ones not to meet together for prayer or bible study. THE GB tells the Anointed that the Anointed ' would be working against the Holy Spirit'. So it shows the GB are putting themselves in the place of God and Christ, by deciding just how the Holy Spirit will work.
Then the GB, those Leaders of the Watchtower / Org, put the Elders above the rest of the Anointed ones.
Yes your GB do indeed beat their fellow slaves publicly.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance
- That is to say, they are not merely comments on the Bible, but they are practically the Bible itself,
- our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness.
Since then, many doctrines have changed. But, the principle set out in these sentences has not changed. WTJWorg still argues today that the Bible cannot be properly understood without JW publications and without GB placing “spiritual food” in front of people.
Deception is powerful and works.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in DEFINING APOSTASY
No doubt there are those who will toss the letter away. The pattern of rebellion against the warning of evil committed in God’s physical nation, has repeated itself today, in His spiritual nation. Over the years, many anointed have written letters to the GB. Obviously, their warning words meant little as they rule by their own authority. (Jer 5:31) Their weapon has always been to silence truth through disfellowshipping. King Jehoiakim tried to destroy God’s condemning word sent by Jeremiah, by shredding and burning it. But, Jeremiah was persistent and wrote another scroll. Jer 36:23,24,27
Rachel has received replies from elders, who have taken her message to the GB.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in DEFINING APOSTASY
This letter was written by an anointed sister (“Rachel”) in Christ. It is presently being mailed to branch offices and kingdom halls around the world. This is not the first of its kind Rachel has written, reaching JW leaders over the months. (Zech 4:6) It is very possible that any JW leader who has passed by here, may have already received one.
The Hebrew and Greek scriptures give us a complete blueprint for identifying apostasy. In the Greek scriptures, “apostasia,” translated “apostasy” (2 Thess.2:3) means a rebellion, a falling away, a defection from truth – “Jesus said to him [Thomas]: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one come to the Father except through me.” Apostasy, a defection from truth, is a departing from Jesus, rebelling against his instruction, and not imitating his example (1 Tim.6:3; 1 Tim.1:3; 2 Tim.4:4; 1 Cor.11:3; Luke 21:8; Rom.16:17; Matt.7:15; Heb.3:12; 1 John 2:6; 2 Thess.2:3). The scriptures recorded the history God’s chosen ancient nation of Israel’s actions, both good and wayward, “examples…written for our admonition” (1 Cor.10:6-11; Heb.3:5; 9:1,6,9; 10:1,11,3,5-8). In the Hebrew scriptures, we find God’s people, his nation of Israel, repeatedly became rebellious. A Hebrew word was used for their disobedience: “meshubah,” defined, “apostasy,” “turning back/away,” “backsliding,” “waywardness,” and “unfaithful” (Prov.1:32; Jer.3:6,8,11,12,22; 5:6; 8:5; 14:7; Hos.11:7). Time and again we read scriptural accounts of Israel’s unfaithfulness/apostasy due to their “abominations,” which described various kinds of wickedness they were warned against and described as “detestable things/images” and “disgusting thing/idols/god/practices” (Deut.12:31; 18:9-12; 20:18; 1 Kings 14:24; 2 Kings 16:3; 21:2; 23:24; 2 Chron.28:3; Jer.4:1; 16:18; 32:34; Ezek.5:11; 7:20; 11:18). Ancient Israel was God’s “treasured possession,” a “holy people,” and where He dwelled, but their abominable idolatrous practices were considered adultery/prostitution/“acts of harlotry,” and resulted in God describing them as a “prostitute”/“harlot” (Deut.7:6; 26:18; 14:2; Exod.34:14-16; Num.35:34; Jer.2:11,20; 5:7; 13:27; 16:18; Hos.3:1; 4:15; 9:1; Psalm 106:39; Isa.1:21; Ezek.16:15,22,25,34,36). Did you ever take note of the pattern of ancient Israel’s priesthood? The priesthood were the only consecrated persons to permitted to carry out “daily sacrifices,” or offerings in God’s tabernacle and Temple…all others/”foreigners uncircumcised”/Gentiles/non-consecrated persons were forbidden from duties in the Temple, at the penalty of death (Jer.33:18; Deut.17:14,15; Lev.3:16; 17:5,6; 2 Chron.23:6,7; 1 Chron.9:33; Exod.29:38-40,42-44; 40:15,16; Num.18:7; 28:6; Lev.6:9-12; Ezek.44:9). Despite being repeatedly told that that no one “except the priests and Levites” were permitted to serve in the Temple, the Israelites even departed from that divine command and appointed uncircumcised foreigners to “keep charge” of God’s sanctuary (Ezek.44:6-8,10,12,15; 20:30,31; Num.18:7). We recall that “all the things that were written beforehand were written to instruct us” (Rom.15:4). What a constellation of apostate acts have been recorded and described in the scriptures! Both the Hebrew and Greek scriptures come together perfectly to present a complete picture that perfectly guides us on how what apostate acts are, and how to identify apostasy, according to God and Jesus. Let’s first start with the Hebrew scriptures, which describe God’s chosen people, the nation of Israel, and the divine commands regarding worship they were not to depart from: · God referred to the nation of Israel as “My people,” “a holy nation,” “holy people,” and His “dwelling place” (Deut.7:6; 26:19; 28:9; Exod.19:6; 22:31; 25:8; Lev.21:15; 2 Chron.7:14; 1 Kings 8:16; Isa.51:4; Ezek.21:12; 37:27). · God established a covenant with His people whom He chose, and gave them divine commandments and instruction for building the Temple and sanctuary (Deut.14:2; Gen.17:4; Exod.25:8,9; Exod.19:5; 24:8; Deut.4:13; see Exod.24-26). · Temple duties were limited to a consecrated priesthood, anointed to carry out the daily sacrifices/offerings/sacred service (Exod.29:1,9,29,44; Lev.6:9-12; Num.18:7; Jer.33:18; 1 Chron.9:33; 23:24; 2 Chron.23:6,7; 26:16-18; 13:10,11; 35:3; Neh.12:44-47; 13:10,11; Ezek.44:6-8). · Uncircumcised foreigners/Gentiles were forbidden from sacred service duties in God’s Temple and forbidden to be appointed as king over Israel (Deut.17:14,15; 2 Chron.23:6; Ezek.44:6-9; Lam.1:10; 5:2). · God’s holy people were commanded not to imitate the customs of worship of the surrounding nations, and their abominable idolatrous and detestable practices (Deut.12:30; 18:9; 20:18; 2 Kings 9:9, 17:7-15). · Warnings against idolatry included setting up physical idols and setting up “idols in their heart” (Deut.4:16,23; Exod.20:1-5; 23:13; 34:17; Lev.19:4; 26:1; Ezek.44:12; 14:1-5). · Israel had a choice: Obey God’s commandments, be blessed and looked upon with favor, or do not obey God’s commandments and lose blessings and favor, and bear the consequences of their sin/unfaithfulness (Deut.7:12; 11:13-17; 28:1,15; Lev.26:3-13,14-39; 1 Chron.9:1; 2 Chron.7:19-22; Hosea 10:15; 11:7; Ezek.15:8; 39:23,26; 44:10-12; Josh.22:20; Dan.9:7). · Israel’s record reveals they often became wayward/apostate/unfaithful, and their rebellious acts likened to adultery, prostitution, and the “sin of divination” (1 Sam.15:23; Lev.17:7; Jer.3:6,8; Zeph.1:3-5; Hosea 6:7; 9:1; Ezra 9:1,2; Josh.7:1; 1 Chron.5:25; 2 Chron.28:22; 29:6; 30:7; Ezek.20:27). · Israel’s acts of unfaithfulness included “detestable practices of the nations,” idolatry/trusting in idols, and breaking the divine commands of who may perform sacred service in the Temple (2 Kings 17:7-11,15,41; 9:22; 21:21; Exod.32:4,8; Judges 18:31; 2 Chron.26:16-18; 36:14; Jer.48:7; Isa.44:17; Ezek.23:49; Hosea 4:12; 10:5,13; Psalm 52:7; 135:15-18). · Detestable and idolatrous acts were likened to sexual immorality; God described His people’s “acts of harlotry” and adultery as sexual immorality and called them a “prostitute”/”harlot.” (Isa.1:21; Lev.17:7; Jer. 2:17,19-22; 3:6-9; 9:2; Isa.1:21; Ezekiel 16:1,2,14-17,20-26,32,33,35,36; Micah 1:7; Hosea 4:12; 9:1). · When Israel was unfaithful, God “kept warning them by means of his messengers, warning them again and again, because he felt compassion for his people and for his dwelling place,” and good news that a repentant remnant of Israel, at times, only a few refugees, would be saved (2 Kings 17:12,13; 2 Chron.36:14,15; Isa.1:9;19,27,28; 10:20-22; 28:5; 41:8,9,27; Jer.23:3; 44:14; Ezra 9:8; Nahum 1:14,15; Micah 2:12; Hos.1:10; Joel 2:32). The apostles drew attention to the first covenant Temple arrangement as it foreshadowed, illustrated, and served as a pattern for the spiritual Temple arrangement under the new covenant established by Jesus’ sacrificial death (1 Cor.10:6,7,11; Heb.7:19; 8:5; 9:1,8-10; 10:1; Col.2:17; Rom.4:18,22-25). · All anointed “have an anointing from the Holy Spirit” by God, and become part of “Christ’s body.” Christ’s body is “not of one member but of many” with each part given different gifts according to the Holy Spirit given them from God (Matt.16:18; 2 Cor.1:21; Col.2:9; 1 John 2:20; Heb.12:23; Acts 1:4; Rom.8:15,28; 12:4,5; 1 Cor.2:11-13; 10:17; 12:12-18,27-29; 14:33; John 2:19,21; Mark 14:58; Jude 1:13; Rev.1:5,2). · All anointed are “living stones,” a “spiritual house” in which “the whole building,” “God’s household,” is built together into “a holy Temple.” Christ is the “foundation cornerstone,” a “chief cornerstone,” and “Son over God’s house,” in which “there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved” (1 Pet.2:4,5; Heb.3:6; Acts 4:11,12; 1 Tim.3:15; Eph.2:19-22; Matt.21:42; Isa.28:16; 1 Pet 2:4,5,9,10; 1 John 2:27 John 14:26). · All anointed are “God’s Temple” and “dwelling place.” Ancient Israel and their Temple worship served as a “copy and shadow of heavenly things. When the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus’ disciples, they grasped that the physical city of Jerusalem was no longer God’s Temple for worship, and expressed that as “living stones,” they are God’s Temple and dwelling place and that He dwells in them. Yes, the early Christians had fellowship and congregated in homes, and the apostle Paul drove the point home to them that God does not dwell in man-made Temples. Jesus, as high priest, and “mediator of a better covenant,” is now seated at the right hand of the throne of God, and is a minister of God’s sanctuary and true tabernacle erected not by man, but by God (1 Cor.3:16,17; Matt.12:6; Acts 7:48,49; 17:24; Heb.8:1-6; Heb.9:11,24; Heb.10:19-21; John 4:21-24; Isa.66:1; 2 Cor.5:1). · All anointed are a “holy priesthood” with Jesus as “high priest.” Jesus “has become surety of a better covenant,” making obsolete the old covenant with his death. Jesus has a “permanent priesthood,” those who God considers to be “My people,” just was ancient Israel, but now ordaining a spiritual priesthood for acts of divine service, a sacred service without the limitations of physical burnt offerings, but “spiritual sacrifices” (Heb.3:1; Heb.7:22,24,26-28; Heb.8:1,9,10; Heb.9:1,6-10; Heb.10:5-10; Rom.12:1; 1 Pet.2:5,9). · All anointed, Christ’s body, are Jesus’ “congregation.” Jesus Christ is the “firstborn” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth” - Jesus is not the ruler of the world, but he is the “head” and the ruler over his “body,” his “congregation” of all anointed (John 12:31; 14:30; 1 Cor.2:12; 12:12-18,27-29; Rev.1:5,6; 2:11; 5:10; 3:21; 12:9; 20:4,6). · All anointed are taught directly by the Spirit. Spirit teaches all anointed, and together, as a “holy priesthood,” they must carry out their priestly duties by offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. These “sacrifices” are not literal burnt offerings as was carried out by ancient Israel’s priesthood who served in God’s Temple. All anointed, as God’s Temple, are to offer themselves as a “living sacrifice,” and through a perpetual “sacrifice of praise,” which is a bearing of “much fruit,” “the fruit of the lips”; sharing with others what the Spirit has taught them (John 14:26; Heb.13:15,16; Psalm 119:108; Rom.12:1; 1 John 2:20,27; 1 Cor.1:21; 2:10; 12:7,11-13; Matt.7:17; 13:23; Mark 4:20; 1 John 2:27; 14:16; 15:4,5,16,18,26; 12:24; 16:3,7,13; Acts 2:33; Jer.33:18; Rev.22:3-5). · All anointed are ”branches” that must remain attached to the “vine”/Jesus. All anointed must remain faithful to Christ’s teachings, lest they stray, become unfaithful, and be “cut off” from the vine/Jesus, discarded/”thrown into the fire.” Yes, it is possible for anointed to stop following Jesus, become apostate, and lose their “light.” Without “light”, they are in darkness and become false teachers, producing “fruit”/teachings that “rot”/expire and are thus, lies (Heb.3:12-15; 4:7,11; 6:4-6,18; John 3:19; 8:12; 15:5-7,16; 2 Cor.2:11; 4:6; 11:13,14; Rom.11:17-22; Acts 26:18,23; Matt.22:14; 7:15-23; 15:8,9; Mark 13:22; 1 John 2:11; John 8:44; Num.23:19). We now have the keys, the scriptures, to identify an apostate! Carefully examine the example of ancient Israel, God’s people, and take note of the divine laws regarding the Temple/tabernacle arrangement….THIS is a pattern and foreshadow of God’s spiritual Temple (Eph.2:14-16; 1 Cor.10:6,7,11; Rom.4:23; Num.18:1,5-7; 2 Chron.23:5,6,18,19; Heb.8:5; 10:1; Col.2:17). According to scripture, here is what we know: · Jesus’ faithful death fulfilled the old covenant, making it obsolete, and established a new covenant, one where God’s Temple is made up of spirit-anointed persons that include Gentiles, who are spiritual Jews, a “holy priesthood”/Jesus’ congregation. All anointed are God’s Temple, “living stones” that build His “house” (1 Pet.2:5; 1 Cor.3:10; 12:27,28; Rom.12:4-8; Eph.2:19-22; Rom.2:25-29; Col.2:11; 3:11,12,15; Phil.3:3; 1 Cor.7:19; Gal.5:6). · Jesus foretold that “many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people” (Matt.24:10,11). Jesus said, “watch out for false prophets” (Matt.7:15-20), “Watch out that no one deceives you” (Mark 13:5). Deception is an attempt to lead you in the wrong way, away from true teachings of Jesus Christ. · Will it be easy to identify a false prophet? No, it will not. Jesus warns that false prophets will deceive by appearing sheep-like and be successful because they will actually be well received and praised by many people (Luke 6:26; 1 Cor.2:14; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 1 John 4:1; Heb.5:14; Matt.7:15; 24:11,25; 22:14; Rom.12:2; John 7:24; 1 Tim.4:1; 1 Thess.5:21). · Jesus said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness” (Luke 17:20). However, a “natural person” is enticed by the “senses,” and unable to “hear” and “see” because of not using spiritual discernment (1 Cor.2:14; Matt.13:13,14; 16:1-4; 12:39; 23:27,28; Mark 8:11,12; Luke 12:54-56; 2 Pet.2:18; Rom.8:5-8; 11:8; 1 John 4:1; 2 Thess.2:2; Jer.5:21). Such persons will be easily deceived by false prophets who were foretold by Jesus to perform “great signs and wonders,” observable acts done to elicit a reaction of awe from onlookers, and to deceive, “if possible, even the elect,” spiritual Jews/anointed (Mark 13:22; Matt.24:24,22,31; John 4:48). · Jesus said we would recognize false prophets by their “fruit.” What fruit? Jesus’s teachings because he is the “fruit of the light,” “the light of the world” and reflects God’s light, God’s truth (John 3:19,21; 8:12; 12:46; 14:6; 17:17; Eph.5:9; 1 John 1:5-7; 2:8; 2 Cor.4:6; Luke 11:36; Psalm 27:1). · The teachings, the “fruit,” we ingest from those we trust to be faithful anointed taught by Holy Spirit, does that “fruit” rot away and expire over time? If so, we are ingesting “fruit” from a false prophet, an anointed that has departed from Jesus’ teachings. Do not be deceived, God and Jesus will not vacillate or have difficulty relaying truth by the “Spirit of truth” for as we know “It is impossible for God to lie” or to “change His mind” (Heb.6:18; Titus 1:2; James 1:17; Num.23:19; John 14:17,26; 15:26; 1 John 4:6; Psalm 25:5). Truth that “rots” is a lie, a hallmark of Satan who “masquerades as an angel of light,” and is the father of the lie (Matt.7:15-23; 12:33;15:8; Luke 6:43,44; 2 Cor.2:11; 11:13,14; John 8:44; Heb.6:18). · Jesus’ apostles too warned of individuals who are among God’s household, His Temple, who would lead in teaching others yet would become unfaithful/apostate. “The inspired word clearly says that in later time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons” (1 Tim.4:1; 2 Tim.4:3,4; Acts 20:29,30; 2 Cor.11:3,13-15; 6:16; Eph.2:21,22; 1 John 4:1; Col.2:8; 1 Tim.4:1). The apostles did not exclude their own teachings from being thoroughly tested against scripture, and reminded the early Christians to “test all things,” a reminder preserved for us today in which no one is excluded from (1 Thess.5:21; 1 John 4:1). What Temple of God was the apostle Paul speaking about? Ancient Israel? No, remember the scriptures tell us that those anointed by Spirit are “living stones,” they are God’s Temple. (1 Pet.2:5; 1 Cor.3:16,17). Is it feasible to think the Father departed, apostatized from His own truthful words, breaking his covenant with His people and directing His son Jesus to select a religious group among all the religions on the globe as a representation of the Most High? That instead of all anointed being God’s Temple, anointed leaders are to imitate surrounding physical religious organizations common today, perhaps imitating televangelists, or churches, in the sense of man-made buildings/structures. Did Jesus depart from his own teaching that anointed, who are the parts of his “body” and taught directly by Spirit, are now, not to receive direction from him, their “head,” and that he now, diverts his authority over his own “congregation”/”body” to not-anointed elders/overseers/physical Gentiles to teach and judge them? (Ezek.20:32; 2 Cor.6:16; 1 Cor.6:15,19,20; 12:12,13,27,28; 1 John 2:27; John 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7,13; 1 Thess.1:9; Eph.1:23; 5:5; Isa.42:8; Lev.19:4; 26:1; 1 John 5:21; Rom.1:21-23; Gal.1:6-9; Deut.12:29-32; Lev.20:22,23; Jer.10:2-4; 1 Cor.2:14; Deut.7:26; Matt.24:15; Mark 13:14). We are warned that an “apostasy comes first” before “God’s day.” “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it [God’s day, vs.2] will not come until the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the Temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god” (2 Thess.2:3,4). This very thing was prophesied to occur, is happening now, and has been revealed in Revelation. What anointed leaders have departed from Christ’s teachings and have become adulterous with their idolatrous acts by setting up an idol, a physical religious organization that claims the title of “God’s earthly organization”? “Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Should I, then, take the members of the Christ away and join them to a prostitute? By no means!” (1 Cor.6:15). This “wild beast,” Watchtower, is led by a “false prophet” who has “breathed life,” a spirit of divine authority into its “image,” not-anointed elders/overseers (Rev.13:1-18). The only spirit this “image” has been given is out of the mouth of the “false prophet,” a deceiving spirit that originates from Satan and blasphemes God, “slandering his name and his dwelling place,” His holy people…inciting God’s wrath (Rev.13:4,7-10; Rom.2:5-8; Rev.14:9-11; 1 Pet.2:9; Heb.13:14; Col.3:12; Eph.2:6-10,12,19-22; Phil.3:3; Rom.2:28,29; 1 John 4:6; 2:44; 8:44; Jude 1:4; Deut.7:26; 29:17; Jer.16:18; Isa.62:12; Ezek.5:11; 11:21; 16:36; 20:7,8; Ezra 9:1,2; Rom.2:17-24; Acts 17:24; Acts 7:48-53; Titus 1:2). Do you dare to confront the leaders of Watchtower or their elder/overseer representatives who speak for them about their false teachings, or openly disagree with them? If so, will you be left “unharmed” (avoid shunning, disfellowshipping)? “Who is like the wild beast [Watchtower], and who can do battle with it?” (Rev.13:4). “And it [the false prophet] was permitted to give breath [appearance of divine spirit and authority] to the image of the wild beast [not anointed elders/overseers], so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed (symbolic for disfellowshipping and shunning) all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast” (Rev.13:15). Can you now, using scripture, spiritually discern the apostasy that has occurred and the man of lawlessness/Gentiles/not-anointed that have taken a seat in God’s Temple and are trampling God’s spiritual Temple? (2 Thess.2:1-4; Exod.20:3; 1 Cor.3:16,17; 6:2; Mark 13:1,2,14; Luke 21:20-24,28; 17:20,21; Matt.24:12,15,16; Rom.12:1; Dan.11:31; Rev.11:1,2; 13:7; 17:15; 21:27; John 18:36; Matt.24:4; Ezek.5:11; Deut.7:26; 2 Kings 17:41). God’s spiritual Temple, Jesus, the head of this “congregation,” is being surrounded, hemmed in and trampled by not anointed/physical Gentiles (Luke 21:24; Rev.11:2; 12:17; 19:20; Dan.8:13; Heb.10:29; Acts 3:17-20; Jer.12:10; 17:5; 32:36-44; Isa.1:4-9; Rom.9:31-33; 6:16,20-22). Do you discern the abomination? It is time to flee! (Matt.24:15; Mark 13:14; Luke 21:21; Dan9:27). “But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually” (1 Cor.2:14). God is right 100% of the time…all His prophecies come true (Dan.8:13; 1 Thess.5:20,21; 1 Cor.14:32; Deut.18:18,19; Jer.12:10; 17:5; 32:36-44; Heb.10:29; Hos.12:10; Amos 3:7; 2 Chron.20:20; 24:19; Isa.1:4-9; 8:20; 30:10; Matt.5:11,12; Rom.12:6,7; Eph.4:11-13; 1 John 4:1). God always warns His people when they become wayward, sending messengers to warn them, and with good news...a remnant will repent, and return to their “head,” Jesus, worshiping God in truth and spirit (Rev.22:12-16,18,19; 21:22-27; Eph.4:15; 5:23; Col.2:10; John 4:23,24; 16:13; Rev.3:12; 12:17; 19:20; Acts 3:17-20; Jer.4:1; Isa. 10:20-23; Ezek.11:18; 2 Kings 19:30,31; Rom.6:16; 9:27). Who do you believe and have more faith in…Christ’s teachings, or the Watchtower’s? (John 5:22-24: Luke 10:16; 1 John 2:23; Isa.29:13; Mark 7:6; Matt.15:8; Eph.2:8,9; Titus 1:16). “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues” (Rev.18:4). YHVH's Genuine Mountain
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to JW Insider in Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance
RUSSELL CLAIMS TO BE THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE
In discussing Russell as "God's mouthpiece," the most quoted passage from Russell was left out of the last post.
In the Watch Tower, May 1890, p. R1214, this is part of a lengthy review of WT/Russell history by Russell himself.]
No, the truths we present, as God's mouthpieces, were not revealed in visions or dreams, nor by God's audible voice, nor all at once, but gradually, especially since 1870, and particularly since 1880, a period of about twenty years. And this present clear unfolding of truth is not due to any human ingenuity or acuteness of perception, but to the simple fact that God's due time has come, and if we did not speak and no other agent could be found, the very stones would cry out. . . . I [Russell] told [the Lord] that I realized that he was the Shepherd, and not I, but that I knew also that he would be pleased at any interest in the sheep, and my desire to be his mouthpiece to declare the truth, the way and the life to them; that I felt deeply impressed that if the time had come for the permission of a false view to deceive the unworthy, it must also be his due time to have the truth on the same subject made clear, that the worthy ones might be enabled to stand, and not fall from the truth.
The rewrite of the same article in the Watch Tower, July 15, 1906, p.R3821 might be explained by the fact that between those two articles, the "faithful slave" was no longer a class, but now a single, individual human. Note the change from "truths we present, as God's mouthpieces" to "truths I present, as God's mouthpiece:"
No, the truths I present, as God's mouthpiece, were not revealed in visions or dreams, nor by God's audible voice, nor all at once, but gradually, especially since 1870, and particularly since 1880. Neither is this clear unfolding of truth due to any human ingenuity or acuteness of perception, but to the simple fact that God's due time has come; and if I did not speak, and no other agent could be found, the very stones would cry out. . . . I [Russell] went to the Lord with this as with every trial, told him just how it seemed to me, how anxious I felt for his dear "sheep," who, having their appetites sharpened by some truth, were by their very hunger exposed to Satan's deceptions. I told him that I realized that he was the Shepherd, and not I, but that I knew also that he would be pleased at my interest in the sheep and my desire to be his mouthpiece to declare the truth, the way and the life to them; that I felt deeply impressed that if the time had come for the permission of a false view to deceive the unworthy, it must also be his due time to have the truth on the same subject made clear, that the worthy ones might be enabled to stand, and not fall from the truth.
The change in the "faithful slave" (aka "that servant") doctrine became official in 1896. It was supposedly promoted without Russell's direct permission a few months earlier by his wife. But if we look more closely at some of Russell's own writings prior to 1896, especially in letters from others that he published about himself, we can see a transitioning toward that teaching.
In a very early Watch Tower, October 1880, p. R149, contributor W. I. Mann wrote an article where he said:
"Therefore, be ye (ye brethren) also ready; for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of Man comes." This was fulfilled. It was months after Christ came (in Fall of '74) before the company realized it. "Who, then, is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord, HAVING COME (elthon), shall find so doing." Was there such a servant? Of course, we do not understand that it means one individual, but evidently a small company . . .
Russell evidently agreed with this, as shown in the Watch Tower, November 1881, p. R291:
"Who then is that faithful and wise servant whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household," to give them meat in due season? Is it not that "little flock" of consecrated servants who are faithfully carrying out their consecration vows--the body of Christ-- and is not the whole body individually and collectively, giving the meat in due season to the household of faith--the great company of believers?
The hints, even when officially understood as a class, may have started as early as 1882 (the third year of the Watch Tower), by regularly calling the Watch Tower articles "meat in due season," "food for thinking Christians," edification for the household of faith, etc. The following is from November 1882, p.R548:
Blessed is that servant whom his Lord when he cometh shall find giving meat in due season to the household. (Matt. 24:45,46.) We should be specially interested in making it known to every consecrated child of God, many of whom are almost starved. You may have for the asking abundance of reading matter for free distribution.
But the more "official" change was in the Watch Tower, March 1, 1896, p. R1946:
In our examination of this text we seem to have treated the term "that servant" as though the Spirit had erred in saying "that servant" when it meant servants (plural), and we applied it to all true servants of God. Since then we have been met from various quarters with objections to so general an application, and the suggestion that it would be wrong to allow modesty or any other consideration, good or bad, to warp our judgment in the exposition of the inspired Word; to which proposition we agree . . . It is further suggested that whoever occupies the position of "that servant" occupies a place of special danger, as well as of special privilege; that only by humility and faithfulness can he continue; and that, although not so stated in the Scriptures, it may be inferred that if the chosen one should fail, another would be chosen to be "that servant" or steward through whom the Master would continue to supply the "meat in due season" to those deemed worthy to continue at his table
A repetition of those ideas was made in April 15, 1904 p.R3355-6:
"THE FAITHFUL AND THE WISE STEWARD." We would naturally enough endeavor to interpret our Lord's words as signifying a composite steward-- that is that a certain number or class of brethren together would constitute the steward of this parable. In endeavoring to make such an interpretation we are met with several difficulties, however. (1) To suppose such a class in the Church would be to recognize what is elsewhere denied--to recognize a clerical or authoritative class as distinct and separate from the remainder of the Church, because this steward is to dispense the meat in due season to the household, to the fellow-servants. The Church of Christ, we hold, is not composed of clergy and laity, but "ye are all one in Christ Jesus, and one is your Master, even Christ." There would be no violation of principle, however, in supposing that the Lord at the time indicated would specially use one member of his Church as the channel or instrument through which he would send the appropriate messages, spiritual nourishment appropriate at that time; because at various times in the past the Lord has used individuals in such a manner. For instance, Peter used the "keys" of the Kingdom of heaven at Pentecost, and again at the home of Cornelius, and in both places he was used as a special servant in connection with the dispensing of special truths. This did not constitute Peter a lord over the other apostles or over the Church, but merely a servant. (2) However much we might endeavor to apply this figure to the Lord's people collectively, the fact would still remain that the various items stated would not fit to a company of individuals.. . . but since the servant mentioned is to dispense food to the other members of the body, his fellow-servants, the term seems to be limited to some particular individual.
In the meantime, of course, Russell had printed many letters from persons who acknowledged Russell himself as "that servant" (individually) and Russell spoke of his writings as fulfilling the "food at the proper time" ("meat in due season") to the household of faith. The long quotes in the previous post from 1895 about the study of the MILLENNIAL DAWN books shows this clearly. That idea also matches another often quoted reference of Russell to his own books which nearly equate them with the Bible itself, as he said in the Watch Tower, September 15, 1910, p.R4685:
If the six volumes of SCRIPTURE STUDIES are practically the Bible topically arranged, with Bible proof-texts given, we might not improperly name the volumes-- the Bible in an arranged form. That is to say, they are not merely comments on the Bible, but they are practically the Bible itself, . . . Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the Divine Plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years --if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the SCRIPTURE STUDIES with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures.
Just months after his death, the Watch Tower said that Russell only claimed to be the "faithful and wise servant" in private, p.R5998.
It is here interesting to note that Jesus said, "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord hath made ruler over His Household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Lord, when He cometh, shall find so doing! Verily I say unto you that He shall make him ruler over all His goods." Thousands of the readers of Pastor Russell's writings believe that he filled the office of "that faithful and wise servant," and that his great work was giving to the Household of Faith meat in due season. His modesty and humility precluded him from openly claiming this title, but he admitted as much in private conversation.
He was probably trying to follow the example of Jesus, which he often commented upon with this idea: (p.R3338)
With his disciples our Lord traveled . . . He did not announce himself publicly to the people there, but his presence soon became known, showing that the fame of his miracles and teachings had spread throughout the whole of Palestine.
And more to the point, p.R3851:
The modesty of our Lord in respect to his Messiahship is noteworthy. Not on a single occasion we know of did he announce himself as Messiah. . . . In every instance his honor as Messiah was mentioned by others and simply not disputed by the Lord.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to JW Insider in Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance
So, for 1874, 1878, and 1881, it seems that we can get a pretty good idea of the expectations and the reasons for them.
Barbour and Paton had promoted 1873 and 1874 for the big "change" from physical bodies to spiritual bodies all of Christ's Bride -- but Russell hadn't joined them yet. Russell, Barbour and Paton all (together) vigorously promoted the big "change" for 1878. Barbour promoted 1881 as the year Jesus would appear again, and the year for the big "change." But by then Russell and Paton had separated from Barbour, and Paton didn't expect 1881 to be any different from any other year, except with reference to the natural Jews. And Russell only predicted that the time of wrath and vengeance would begin in 1881, and that Jesus could take his bride from the earth at any time after October 2, 1881, but this didn't mean it would necessarily happen that year. In fact, since all of Christ's Bride who died after October 1881 would now be "changed" immediately upon death, then, for the time being, there was no specific urgent date to look to between 1881 and 1914. So this is a good place to pause, I think, and spend some time on Russell's own attitude toward these dates, predictions and the value of the chronology in general. It will help us understand why he was sometimes apparently dogmatic, and sometimes apparently not dogmatic.
RUSSELL'S GENERAL VIEW OF THE CHRONOLOGY AND HIS OWN ROLE
Russell regularly spoke of God's "Plan of the Ages." (His wife wanted to call it God's "Eternal Purpose.") Russell promoted 5-feet-wide charts full of timelines and pyramid diagrams that he wanted all Bible Students to hang on their walls to see the beauty of the interlocking "proofs."
Nelson Barbour had indicated that he {Barbour] was filling the role of God's mouthpiece, and the role of the "faithful and wise servant." He indicated that it was through him [Barbour] that he taught Russell everything he knows. But when Russell broke with Barbour, Russell made it clear that Barbour's patronizing attitude toward Russell was not valid.
RUSSELL, CLAIMS HE WAS NOT JUSTIFIED (MADE RIGHTEOUS) THROUGH FAITH, BUT SINCE BIRTH
Rather than think of himself as declared righteous through faith, he thought of himself as someone who was justified from birth. And therefore cannot ever be accused of wilful sin. And therefore it was neither necessary nor appropriate for Russell to feel the contrition necessary for repentance, in the same way as others. Note how dogmatically Russell simply declares himself to be of this class of Christian. (There is no such concept found in the Bible.) The following is from the Watch Tower, November 1, 1904, p.R3456:
In re justification; we believe that quite a good many Christians were born in a justified condition, and that the sentiments of their hearts always were for righteousness, and that therefore they cannot accuse themselves of having sinned wilfully, nor feel such great contrition as those who have been living in sin--in alienation from God. Nor should they. They are already the Lord's, and for them to be converted (turned round) would mean to turn away from the Lord. The Editor is one of this class.
RUSSELL AS GOD'S MOUTHPIECE
Russell saw himself as God's mouthpiece for the purpose of gathering anointed ones and preparing them to meet the Bridegroom. He said that he saw his own ministry, not to the poor, or even to the great crowd of anointed who would come out of the great tribulation but only to the "little flock" of anointed who were Christ's Bride, the "Church." Later, of course, after the expected change did not happen so quickly and early as expected, Russell began to see that the entire Bride Class should also be a "mouthpiece" for the kingdom to teach the great crowd.
And when Russell used the term "mouthpiece" he also showed what he thought it meant starting in the very first issue of the WT:
When Paul used these words he was God's mouthpiece, therefore the word is God's. . . [Watch Tower, July 1879, p.R11]
And in the very next issue, Russell creates an imaginary dialogue in which he speaks of himself as a potential mouthpiece of God:
You are anxious, then, to find the connecting links in the great chain which binds the interests of humanity to the throne of God. . . . If it should please Him to use me as His mouthpiece, it will be a great privilege. [Watch Tower, August 1879, p.R13]
Russell associated "mouthpieces" with God's prophets, etc.
As "God in times past spake unto the fathers through the prophets," who were His mouthpieces . . . [p. R196]
It's not fair, as many have done, to claim that Russell indicated he was God's only mouthpiece for his day and age. Russell didn't just make it about himself, personally, but he did teach that a new, special mouthpiece was then needed, and this was directly related to the break that the Watch Tower had made with other "Christian" churches in 1878, when Babylon the Great had begun to fall.
After three and one-half years (in 1878) he rejected or left desolate the nominal church here, as he had done in the "shadow," saying, "Because thou are neither cold nor hot I will spew thee out of my mouth." (Rev. 3:16). The Jewish church was God's mouthpiece until "left desolate," but from that time forward God's truth came through another channel. So here the gospel church has been God's recognized channel of truth, or mouthpiece, but are such, we believe, no longer. Truth will now come through other channels. Since 1878 (and never before that) we have felt at liberty to call God's children out of the nominal churches to a position of freedom and liberty. . . .
To Russell, he biggest difference between the gospel Church (Babylon), including Second Adventists, etc., was no longer doctrines like restitution and consecration, though still important The most important key was now the "time element." And this "time element" (chronology) had been raised by the Adventists, but was not even dropped by most of them, so that is now what made the Watch Tower's teaching separate from others, who could no longer be God's mouthpiece. The same Watch Tower article from November 1881, "The Blessed Dying" mentioned in a previous post, also included these statements:
You will recall that up to 1878, though Restitution was the key note, and entire consecration was always urged, yet the time element was one of the most prominent features always. Since 1878, however, though the same time element is recognized in all our preaching and teaching, and is repeatedly referred to as a proof of our position, yet the direct teaching of time has almost stopped among all the preaching brethren-- . . . It was in the spring of 1879, that seeing clearly the parallelism between the nominal Jewish church and the nominal Gospel church, we were enabled to know just where the latter was finally rejected of the Lord and spewed out of His mouth (Rev. 3:16) no longer to be his mouthpiece. We saw that this was due in 1878, as the parallel of the rejection of the Jewish church,
So, Jehovah's new mouthpiece would be identified at the right time due to the time element, and also by preaching the time element. That same November 1881 issue made it clear that Paul had been a mouthpiece, Luther had been mouthpiece, and now "we" are his mouthpiece. In January 1882, Russell added that the Catholics, the Anglicans, Methodists, and Lutherans, by backing the Evangelical Alliance, etc., were now mouthpieces for the Image of the Beast.
Now the various sects have a sort of backing in this organization, and each may act as the mouthpiece of the Image . . . [p. R322]
[BTW, I hadn't noticed previously that this 1881 idea about the Evangelical Alliance was the forerunner of the later parallel teaching about how the World Council of Churches gave support to the League of Nations, when that entity (the League) became identified with the Image of the Beast.]
If it be asked, in what sense does [Jesus] teach? we answer, by exercising the qualities of the head, or teacher; by using one or more of those present as His mouthpiece in unfolding truth, strengthening faith, encouraging hope, inspiring zeal, etc. [p. R407]
We may search the Scriptures in vain for an instance of Gods sending through such a channel. He hath raised up a new mouthpiece. He sheds increasing light to a little flock who are willing to receive it, and spread it abroad without fear. [p. R505]
We are not ashamed to be the Lord's mouthpieces in this timely but unpopular message: and what timely truth has not been unpopular? [p. R986]
Russell, as he had often done already, printed letters supportive of his own position as God's mouthpiece:
. . .through fear that I would appear to give glory to man rather than to God, from whom I am sensible that the light really comes. Still I realize that it is due you, as God's willing agent in distributing the light. . . I saw a reference to Millennial Dawn in a secular paper. I at once ordered the book. . . Since then I have eagerly read every thing I could get from your pen: . . . Hoping that you may, in the future as in the past, be blessed and honored of God as his mouthpiece, I remain, yours in the glorious hope, L. A. WEATHERLY. [p. R1439]
In Russell's promotion of the "DAWN Study Circles" to study the Millennial Dawn material, Russell made the following comments, showing that he thought of his books, the MILLENNIAL DAWN itself, as "God's mouthpiece." [Watch Tower, September 15, 1895, p.R1867-R1869]
Those who have come to an understanding of the plan of the ages, recognize it as of divine and not of human origination. . . . We give all praise and honor to the Divine Author from whom cometh every good and perfect gift, and who thus, according to his promise (Luke 12:37), continues to feed his Church with spiritual "meat in due season." God, still our Teacher, uses as heretofore instrumentalities, and has provided for his people's instruction and use the orderly presentations of MILLENNIAL DAWN to point out to them his plan of the ages and the duties and privileges of this "harvest" time; because the "due time" has come for "the mystery" to be finished. (Rev. 10:7.) And those who have received instruction in the Word, in private, through the use of MILLENNIAL DAWN as a teacher sent of God (Eph. 4:11-14) have no more reason to ignore it as God's mouthpiece in united study than in their own private study;--no more, either, than they would a living teacher. And should any be disposed to worship the humble human instrumentality chosen of God as the channel for this blessing of present truth, we say to such,--"See thou do it not; for I am thy fellow servant [not thy Lord], and [fellow servant] of thy brethren the prophets [all true teachers or mouthpieces of God]:...Worship God." (Rev. 22:9.) The water of life and the Giver of it, and not the earthen vessel through which it is sent, are to be reverenced. The earthen vessels have naught whereof to glory. What have we of ourselves that we did not first receive of the Lord?--1 Cor. 4:6,7. The God-given plan of the ages is what we should all use in the study of the Bible, if we would get the treasures of wisdom, and grace, and strength for service in these perilous harvest times, for which it is divinely provided. Each one who recognizes this as a God-given light should use it in the study of the Word. Each should make it his own light as God intended. Each should become so proficient in its use as to be able to answer every question that could be asked respecting the general plan of God. But alas! some seem to feel that this is Brother Russell's plan, and that they should originate their own. But this is a great mistake. It is not our plan, but God's. If not God's plan, it is of no value. We do not want any human plans. Surely men cannot make plans for God that he will recognize; for his own plans have been since "before the foundation of the world." God has but one plan, and it is unalterable; and now that he has revealed it, we confess that it is wonderful, yet as simple as it is beautiful. It is a plan, however, that men could not conceive or arrange. Its thoughts are higher than man's thoughts; and hence in all the centuries past men have never even approximated this divine plan of the ages. So then the Bible, the standard, should be studied in the light of this God-given teaching, until each one is proficient --an able teacher of it. Then each should let his light shine--humbly serving it to others. Some, alas! when their eyes are opened to see God's loving plan of the ages, while surprised, and thankful to God for the present truth, neglect to do more than hastily taste of it; and then they hasten on, as they say, to "hunt for more." What they should do would better be to use well what God has already given us as his people. . . . We certainly have no right to ask for more or other blessings, until we have feasted to the full on what has been set before us. Then we should exercise ourselves, using the strength received in serving the feast to others. . . . The proper attitude for the Church is to be active in eating the food already received and in using the strength derived from it. She is not to leave the table bountifully spread to pray for more. When more would be beneficial more will be sent by the hand of some "servant" of God and the Church. Nor will the true "servant" find it necessary to make the food; for it will be given him by the great Householder. It will be "found" by him, and when he presents it to the Lord's family, they will be able to discern upon it the stamp of divine truth. And after partaking of it liberally they will dispense it to others. Sufficient labor for all comes after we have "found" the truth,--labor in eating it, studying and appropriating it, and labor in serving it to others. . . . . Let us remember, however, that we cannot break open any secrets which God may wish to conceal as not yet appropriate "meat in due season"; nor should we wish to do so. The small boy who bangs away at the unripe apple until it falls get food which makes him very sick. . . Our diligence should be rather to watch the ripening processes of divine providence, and to hold our minds and hearts in humble readiness . . . .It is the Word of God that is to be eaten; the DAWNS and TOWERS are divinely provided helps for the cutting of the food into eatable portions,--enabling us to "rightly divide the Word of truth," and thus facilitating the eating of it. Such meetings for the study of the Word in the light of the now revealed plan of the ages have been termed "Dawn Circles." . . . We advise the holding of these Circles everywhere, and suggest that you invite to them only such as are believers . . .any . . .who is desirous of learning the way of God more perfectly. . . .you do not meet to discuss the unbeliever's doubts, but to confirm the believer's faith.. . .It is advisable that the leader be a good reader, and that he begin at the beginning of Volume I. He should pause at the end of each sentence, if necessary, to give full opportunity for questions or remarks; and at the close of each paragraph a general discussion of its contents should be encouraged, . . . Each one of the Circle should have in hand some translation of the Bible or a "Dawn." . . . But some one will say, At that rate we would be fully a year in going through the first volume of MILLENNIAL DAWN, and the three volumes would require three years! All the better, we answer. . . .Surely, if the Bible required nearly two thousand years for its preparation, we should give it reverent study, and not merely a casual glance and thought. . . .
R2371:
Thus it is also with those whom the Lord would specially use in his service during this Gospel age. . . to know that there is an opportunity of rendering service to the King of kings is to volunteer their services, to pray that the Lord will grant them a privilege of doing all their talents will fit them to do in his service. Only such are true mouthpieces of the Lord.
R2433:
We seek merely to be, so far as the Shepherd may be pleased to use us, his mouthpiece, to call attention to the Shepherd, and to the way in which he is leading. None should follow us, except as they discern that we are following the Master, as saith the Apostle.
Watch Tower, July 1, 1903, R3214:
Quite a number came from surrounding cities and towns--and more flowers came, too; "alabaster boxes" of sweet odor to the Lord, because really rendered unto him, and to us merely because he had been pleased to use us as his mouthpiece in proclaiming his great plan of the ages in this his due time for revealing it. . . . Faithfully, your brother and servant in the Lord, CHARLES T. RUSSELL
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
You sound like a bully in a schoolyard, Tom.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
Most are untrustworthy, except a few, but the one "core" teaching that "captured" me, was the righteous living on a cleansed earth forever. This includes the anointed who once sealed, are both spirit and human. This promise was given to Jacob, the grandson of Abraham - Jacob is "Israel". "Israel" are the anointed. (Gen 28:10-17; John 1:51; Rom 9:6-9; Gal 4:26,28; 1 Pet 1:23)
But, "Jehovah's name"? What, speaking a hybrid form of the tetragrammaton? That means nothing. Knowing God through His righteous decrees, His Son and His teachings, mean everything. That, is more important that saying, "Jehovah".
Babylon the great...
There are two choices of covenants – one of life in Jesus Christ and the Father, (New Covenant) and one of death in Satan. You remember that “women” are covenants/promises. You said so yourself a while back. Gal 4:26
“Babylon the Great” is a promise - another “woman”. (Rev 17:5) Those under this promise are her “children”. “She” has “daughters”, who are spiritual harlots just as their “mother” is. (Rev 17:3,4)
The New Covenant promise of life, also has “children”. This “mother” has “daughters”/spiritual virgins who when united with their Bride, Jesus Christ, introduce the rest of God’s children into the Kingdom.
Each covenant produces “seed”. Gen 3:15
Isa 28:15 describes the covenant of death:
You boast, “We have entered into a covenant with death,
with the realm of the dead we have made an agreement.
When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by,
it cannot touch us,
for we have made a lie our refuge
and falsehood our hiding place.”
The Pharisees as part of God’s Israel, were under this covenant. They relied on their lies and rejected life in Jesus Christ. But saying that Christendom is “Babylon the Great” is really a misnomer, since we are individually under the promise that we choose. It depends on our heart’s desire for truth or for lies. (2 Thess 2:9-12) The Catholic Church teaches the trinity. Is this why you might say they are part of “Babylon” and the Wt. is not? How is that teaching any worse than the predicted doctrines of 1975, 1914, 1925, 1932…as dates for Armageddon, and all their correlated teachings? Or, the many failures of the generation teaching? Are they not all lies? Can JWs discern a lie from truth? God’s holy people must look at their own “house” under Jesus Christ. (Eph 2:20-22) The anointed Body of Christ is under scrutiny for accepting, believing and teaching falsehoods under a spiritual “harlot”. (Rev 13:11,12; Rev 17:1,2 ) The Wt. is a haven for its lies and its hidden sins, and JWs have been trained to turn their eyes away from their own “Babylon”. Your leaders have always pointed the accusing finger to those on the “outside”. 1 Cor 5:12,13
Political neutrality, and I suppose you mean fighting in wars...
Personally, I don’t condone military combat and I don't get involved in the news of politics as you do; but, if JWs are not going to war, taking up arms, does this cover over a multitude of falsehoods? Does not going to war make you, “no part of the world”? The Pharisees didn’t go to war. About wanting Jesus killed, they said "it is not lawful for us to put anyone to death". (John 18:31) The leaders handed him over to the Gentiles; much like your leadership hands over anointed priests to spiritual “Gentiles”/elders, who are then symbolically “killed”, for turning to Jesus Christ and rejecting the organization’s falsehoods. (Mark 15:15; Matt 27:27-37; John 18:31; 16:2; Rev 13:15;11:1-3,7)
Jesus told the Jews that they were part of the world. “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” John 8:23,24
When Jesus’ teachings are rejected for the teachings of man, such as the pattern your leadership has developed, they and their believers, become “part of the world”.
There are three instances where (political) soldiers were not judged for their position, but judged according to their faith in the truth and in Jesus Christ. John the Baptist was asked by soldiers, “And what shall we do?” So he said to them, “Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages.” Luke 3:14
In the account where Jesus healed the servant of a centurion soldier, he said, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!” Matt 8:10
And we have the account of Cornelius, the centurion who, with all those with him, received the gift of Holy Spirit. (Acts 10:44-46)
Harlot and Beast
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in Could the JW.org sell off all kingdom Halls and become a full time Zoom religion complete with back room counseling and Disflellowshipping?
When they have to hide in basements (because they expect a future attack by Gog from Magog) it (Zoom and similar digital connections) could be a communication link.
For now (despite the Covid), people still want to see and socialize in physical form.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Matthew9969 in Could the JW.org sell off all kingdom Halls and become a full time Zoom religion complete with back room counseling and Disflellowshipping?
I doubt it. One of the aspects of their continuing high control is making sure the elders are visibly present. It's also a way to make sure the rank and file are not dressing like the world. Not sure about other area's, but even with zoom meetings, jw's are still getting all dressed up, which is really weird.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Thinking in Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance
Fair enough …
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
Jesus expects us to desire truth, since truth contains eternal life. Why else would he encourage us to seek and ask for it, as for hid treasure? Matt 7:7,8
Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. 17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. 18 Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him." John 7:16-18
Each wrong teaching, wrong doctrine of Wt's leadership proves they speak "on their own"...for their own personal glory. A "man of truth", a man whose words are not falsehoods/ever changing teachings, would speak in harmony with Christ's truths. Their teachings would remain.
My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding—
3 indeed, if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
7 He holds success in store for the upright,
he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless,
8 for he guards the course of the just
and protects the way of his faithful ones. Proverbs 2
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Pudgy in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
...which brings up "DOGCOIN".
Sorta like "BitCoin", but with a happy Puppy on the face of each coin!
If you invest now at $1.00 per coin, each one printed on the face of a dog biscuit that tastes like cardboard, it will quickly grow to be worth THOUSANDS of times that!
The potential is infinite and everlasting!
...after all ... If Everyone in the banking and investment community believes in "BitCoin", you can believe in "DOGCOIN"!
....wherever fine Pet Supplies are sold.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Pudgy in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
I am not looking for perfection. I would not have judged Jesus.
Your premises are flawed, and painted with the wrong color with an overly broad brush.
Until the ONE SENTENCE (if memory serves) in the February 2017 Watchtower, the leadership of the Society was quite content to LET, by inference HEAVILY implied and repeated over, and over, and over ........ and over and over and over ... that they WERE inspired and infallible., and make such presumptuous and cringe worthy (paraphrased) statements as "Jehovah and Christ Jesus trusts us, so therefore you can trust us"
.... makes me want to hold my hand tightly over my wallet.
... uh ... if I had a wallet .....
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
JWs are promoting the organization’s embarrassments by advertising their website in your letter writing campaign. It is a cauldron of confusion. How can you so confidently say "all you guys on here who live in the past...have something missing from your thinking process", when you encourage people to enter the website that includes its past teachings? Do you warn them not to do research from 1990 back? Do you apologize ahead of time for the embarrassing doctrines, before a newly interested one opens the sugar-coated cover, that appears as light and truth? What was once a true teaching is now a lie. What was once a lie, is still a lie. Researching the timeline of the generation teaching is like watching a game of ping pong...and there is yet to be a winner.
There is no clear path to solid lasting truth - "fruit" - in the website. (Matt 7:15-20) Making excuses for their blunders by saying "Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food" ...is a lie, and JWs have fallen for it.
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
6 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. John 15
If an anointed teacher asks for truth - fruit that lasts - would Jesus disappoint one of his disciples by giving them understanding that turns out to be an embarrassment? Making excuses for the organization's historical blunders, is demeaning the power of truth in Jesus Christ. John 14:6
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
If we transfer this assessment now to the question in the title of the topic, Did everyone notice ... then we need to notice at least two, three things:
1) That a large part of JW members will not notice the differences between text in the paper form and in digital form of already published publications.
2) That newer generations of JW members have no idea what happened and what is happening to them “right under their noses” about history of own Organization.
3) That changes to the official text on WTJWorg applications can happen in an instant, and that what you read this morning may look different if you read in the afternoon. So, for some readers, it may create insecurity in their own mind and memory, which means the mental and emotional instability of an individual.
4) That digital technology enables a great possibility of manipulation
.., etc
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Pudgy in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
I will stipulate that among Jehovah's Witnesses the basic core truths are infinitely valuable, as well as the discipline afforded by advice of the Governing Body as to virtue, morality and righteous principles.
The 20% of teachings you mention may have been understood incorrectly .... because they taught things that were wrong, self-aggrandizing, silly, and grossly inconsistent, stupid, or just plain creepy.
This makes their credibility crash and burn.
It's like the son who gets good advice from his father from time to time, but most of the time the father is a drunk, a bully, and proclaims that the Planet Mars and Mars Candy Bars have a common heritage, and produces charts and graphs, and millions of words to "prove" it.
Can you imagine Jesus on the Mount of Olives, with his Disciples all around him, when asked when his Kingdom would be established, holding up a Bro. David Splaine "Overlapping Generations" chart and lecturing from that?
My guess is that the actual percentages are closer to 15% being right and 85% wrong.
In warfare, this is known as a massacre.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
Is it virtuous, is it morally right to manipulate people's minds by telling them to "trust" in their guidance because 'Jehovah trusts the slave'...when it is clear by their history, that their teachings are untrustworthy? I can go to the Catholic church and receive guidance from the monsignor on virtue, morality and righteous principles. They too, preach of the Kingdom to come. They also preach that it is imperative to be baptized into their "organization", but we know they cannot lead us into truth, and neither can the Wt. None of these man-made "mountains" contain lasting truth. John 4:21-24
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Anna in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?
I wonder it this is still being worked on. I am assuming it takes a lot of work to change PDF files to put them into the WOL.
This is probably unrelated here, because it's doctrinal rather than technical, but I want to mention it because I was looking at this recently,and what you said above reminded me of it.
Awake October 15, 1968
As we see, there are a number of rather embarrassing statements made here. We have all discussed this on this forum many times....the "certainty" of these kind of claims, and how this could quite rightly make us wary of more recent claims of "certainty". In any case, in view of this article, can anyone be blamed for being skeptical? I would love to pose this question to the members of the GB, with the attached Awake. This Awake is not even the last one that mentioned the adjusted Generation concept, there were subsequent WTs as late as 1995 (I think) that revised our understanding. (I am not even talking about the overlapping generation, which I think was first mentioned in 2008) But of course all these are available on WOL
(In case anyone is interested, if you want to access pre 1970 Awakes and pre 1950 WT and many other publications not found in WOL this is s good website:
https://archive.org/details/WatchtowerLibrary
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance
Um, so is Rambo, CC and Billy the Kid and and et al.
I noticed in his last comment to me that he no longer sounds so 'mature'.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Want to know what the Four Horsemen Represent?
Matthew 24 : 8
New International Version
All these are the beginning of birth pains.
Berean Study Bible
All these are the beginning of birth pains.
NASB 1995
“But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs
-------------------------------------------------
Matthew 24 : 6
Berean Literal Bible
And you will begin to hear of wars and rumors of wars. Behold, do not be alarmed; for it is necessary to take place, but the end is not yet.
I see you've left out the 120 years this time.
-
Kick_Faceinator reacted to Pudgy in Want to know what the Four Horsemen Represent?
I find that good mental health (...well, as much as I can manage ...) is to relegate those things that are invisible with no evidence to a shelf that says "Wait and See", and then .... wait and see.
How does the sealing of the 144,000 relate to anything in our contemporary experience?
1914? 1975? 2034? 2060?
If I had PERFECT and COMPLETE Knowledge, its all beyond my "pay grade", and I can do absolutely NOTHING about any of it.
....neither can you.
Have patience, Grasshopper.
Soon enough you will know, and arguing or sweating about it will not change anything.
Nothing whatsoever.
....and in the meantime, you can have a calm mind, and a peaceful heart.