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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?
No ? Oh, then you must just enjoy calling me names.
So who is the apostate mentioned here ? Me or the reporter ? The word 'apostate' gets thrown around so much that it has lost it's meaning.
But I suppose you and others will go back to arguing about that year 1914 and about when Armageddon will arrive.
And I WILL continue to be Patiently waiting for Truth. Whereas JWs would prefer to continue to preach the GB's lies.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to JW Insider in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...
You appear to have conflated two different GB meetings. In 1980 (when there were about 15 active GB members) only 3 GB members had their names on the memo to discuss moving the beginning of the "generation that will not pass away" from October 4, 1914 to October 4, 1957. It was the "brain-child" of Bro. Bert Schroeder, and my guess is that the other two GB members whose names are on the memo were only included because Bert Schroeder was the chairman of that committee and the others (Booth and Suiter, if I recall) happened to be on the same committee. It's not like the other two signed or promoted the idea. It was just brought to the table for discussion. Bert Schroeder was serious about it, but if you knew Suiter and Booth, I don't think they would have been strong advocates of it or even had much of an opinion about it.
The idea that such things as satellites and rockets in space could be signs in heavens was already hinted at during the study of the book "Your Will Be Done on Earth." The book was written in 1958, but it's still on the jw.org website, because that book was reprinted in the Watchtowers from November 1958 to June 1960. And those articles are on the site. But the most similar ideas to this (before 1980) were the talks that sometimes tied the verses in Luke 21 to the fear of the nuclear age and the new dangers of combining the space race with the nuclear age. Sputnik itself was usually treated in the publications as not a specific threat. Even though Sputnik was also mentioned in the same 1959 article that mentioned the signs in the sun moon and stars, below, no direct connection had been drawn from Sputnik to the "signs:"
*** w59 6/1 p. 335 par. 46 “Look! I Am Making All Things New” ***
“ [“Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars] On the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out . . . , while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth.”
Nuclear fears increased in the early 1960's (e.g. Bay of Pigs, Cuba, 1961) and an even closer connection was then drawn between Luke 21:25,26 and these "signs in the heavens." But they were tied to the generation starting in 1914, of course:
*** w62 3/1 pp. 131-132 God’s New World in Our Generation ***
Today in this nuclear, space age there is indeed “anguish of nations, not knowing the way out.” There is no need for proof of this; it is apparent to anyone who observes world events.
But when did this period of distress of nations begin? With this generation! That is why the new world comes within our generation! World War I marked the beginning of worldwide “anguish of nations.”
That exact same idea was repeated in the May 15 and October 15 Watchtowers of the same year, 1962. And then again in 1965:
*** w65 5/1 pp. 261-262 Cheer amid World Fear ***
Now, too, man has succeeded in sending his space vehicles around and onto the moon, even obtaining remarkable close-up photographs of the lunar surface. The thrill of such scientific achievement, however, is not without widespread feeling of uneasiness, for it is well known that both of the great blocs of nations now confronting each other in cold-war array are planning to be the first to plant a military mission on the moon and use it to scrutinize the installations and movements of the enemy. So the moon is no longer just a gently beaming light for the night sky. It has become a cause for deepening anxiety. And what may yet be discovered, as man turns his attention to nearby planets, is likewise certain to promote the dread feeling of insecurity and uncertainty.
. . .
WORLD FEAR FORETOLD
Nineteen hundred years ago Christ Jesus foresaw this fear-gripped generation, and pointed to the immediate cause: “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation, while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” (Luke 21:25, 26)
The material in the 1968 Truth book pointing to 1975 also brought up the connection again. After that the idea seemed to have been dropped from publications for over a decade (1968-1982).
Since 1982, it's been common to see a general connection between the signs in the heavens and military capabilities in the sky and space, but not in a way that could limit the sign to just the nuclear age or the space age. The following statement (with the inclusion of military planes and rockets) could have application to the time from about WWI to now, or even perhaps going further back in time (e.g. the rockets red glare, and bombs bursting in air):
*** w82 5/15 p. 14 par. 10 The Signs of the Times—What Do They Mean to You? ***
With the stockpiling of armaments racing beyond the control of the nations, the literal sea itself is filled with war equipment in the form of ships and submarines capable of carrying deadly nuclear warheads that can wipe out millions of people with a single missile. Indeed, the sea is roaring and ‘agitated.’ And what about the sky and space above us? True to Jesus’ words, ‘the powers of the heavens have been shaken’ in that war planes, rockets, ballistic missiles and the like, can streak through space, across oceans and continents to strike enemy targets.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Pudgy in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...
The Governing Body has a procedure on how they decide "New Light".
Someone comes up with an idea, and they discuss it among themselves, and then they vote on the adoption of the "New Light"
It takes a 2/3 majority to carry the proposal.
That means if there are eight GB members then at least 5.333 have to be for the idea for it to become official doctrine. Say, six members.
In 1957 when Sputnik was launched the above idea was proposed, that artificial satellites, and Sputnik in particular, would be the fulfillment of Bible Prophesy as regards "signs in the heavens", etc.
I do not remember how many GB members there were back then, as I was just a Puppy, but a 2/3 majority did not carry the day. If memory serves (?) it did pass, but one GB member went to the restroom, and when he came back, he changed his vote.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Pudgy in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...
I realize that I am not as smart as humans, but I am smart enough to realize that EVERYBODY, without exception has been wrong 100% of the time about the fulfillment of Biblical prophesy in modern times.
Interpreting invisible things without a shred of evidence is a tough gig.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Matthew9969 in Physical attendance at meetings/assemblies and "Zoom" attendance
More money for the governing body to live higher in luxury.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Matthew9969 in Physical attendance at meetings/assemblies and "Zoom" attendance
Actually I'm only on the internet during my lunch hour, so I definitely don't have the free time you apparently do to take cheap shots at people and insult them.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in Physical attendance at meetings/assemblies and "Zoom" attendance
KH are also sold in Croatia. For one KH in Zagreb, the price is 700,000 Euros (on sale from 2019).
If your predictions are correct about money, then the decision to sell KH en masse is not helpful, because the state can “nationalize” buildings, but also money. Where is the money from the sale of KH? In banks or in WTJWorg safes? Or is it investing in other real estate and businesses?
Some world events and processes affect all people, sometimes regardless of their ideological, religious or social and economic or any other status. So it seems to me that it may be an exaggeration to talk about JW as the only group of people who will suffer the most from adversity or be the only target by the secular world.
People can meet in their apartments, houses or other public places to maintain social contacts in order to develop and maintain the social aspects of direct socializing.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in Physical attendance at meetings/assemblies and "Zoom" attendance
The GB are like kids in a candy shop. They have a plethora of kingdom halls at their disposal. Sounds like they are in the process of trading up real-estate for Ramapo and their mega audio visual center.
Maybe you need to tell the GB. As A. Morris just said in his latest video, "“Jehovah’s organization is on the move, and it will not be stopped by the pandemic, or anything else." If what you say happens, Ramapo may become a money pit.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Matthew9969 in Physical attendance at meetings/assemblies and "Zoom" attendance
But yes, keep yearning for the day Jehovah is going to kill billions of Men, women and children for not belonging to a book publishing company.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Physical attendance at meetings/assemblies and "Zoom" attendance
IN ASSOCIATION WITH CHRIST JESUS, just in case you missed that. It doesn't say in association with the Watchtower or JW Org. But once again that scripture is for the True Anointed ones. It is the 'body of Christ' that is 'in association with' Christ Jesus.
You do know that God intends to shorten the 'last days' of Armageddon on account of those True Anointed ones, don't you ?
Matthew 24 : 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
Well I have previously said they have spies on here
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
https://www.ebay.com/b/Antiquarian-Collectible-Books-Jehovah-Witness-Watchtower/29223/bn_55470279
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. Matt 24 v 22.
The words of Jesus recorded at Matthew 24 v 22
"In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short".
I think this scripture is interesting in many ways. Firstly it shows the importance of the Chosen Ones to God and Christ. So should those Chosen Ones not be important to all true Christians ?
Secondly, does this not wipe out any reason for looking at dates or times ? A certain person quite new to this forum, or maybe just an AKA, seems to think he/she knows the exact year of Armageddon. But of what use would it be of knowing, when this scripture says "those days will be cut short" ? Surely God or Christ will assess the situation as time passes.
But the main point here is that God and/or Christ will act on behalf of the Chosen Ones.
Berean Literal Bible
And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the elect, those days will be shortened.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Pudgy in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
As far as I am concerned, this covers it all.
Doing just those two things is a 24/7/365 job.
Everything else can be discarded.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
This form is circulating on facebook. I can dig deeper if you like, to find the source. What I am understanding, is that during the October 2017 Annual Meeting, it was stated that the yearbook and other publications, would cease. The Yearbook is listed on this form.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
Very poor excuses Billy. Quite funny when old JW books are for sale on ebay and elsewhere.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
Just a question for you, sir if you're still around. You wouldn't be a legal monitor for the Wt, would you? 🤔
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
P.S.
There is a legal obligation, I do not know if it is an obligation for both WTJWorg in the USA and for WTJWorg printers around the world, that several copies, mandatory copies, of each edition that goes to print should be handed over to the state public library. Here in Croatia, 9 copies have to be handed to National University Library.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
Each legal entity creates a different, various type of documentation during the business. Often times a legal body needs to adopt its own Regulations that regulate certain activities within the institution. Regulations must be harmonized with the laws on Archives. Such laws on archives are enacted by the state and its public bodies.
So, the people who run WTJWorg should know how to destroy the documentation that is scheduled for destruction after certain retention periods have passed. But there is documentation that must not be destroyed, but must exist permanently, as long as there is a legal entity. After the legal entity ceases to exist, there are rules that say that certain documentation must be submitted to a state archive for storage and safekeeping. Or the documentation is handed over to a new legal successor.
The doctrines and teachings and traditions that are part of WTJWorg publications are likely to be among the documents that have no lasting value before legislation. Therefore, the publisher can independently decide to destroy everything that should no longer have any (spiritual, theological, moral, religious, doctrinal ... etc) significance for the average (or all) members of the organization.
Certainly, that such kind of decision by WTJWorg, to destroy “spiritual food” that has “ceased to be true,” is dubious for a simple reason. For, then, every JW can rightly ask Pilate's question, "What is The Truth?" .."Why should I believe in a New Truth?" .... etc.
Also, should any JW be required to separate (for destruction) from its private library any such publication, which no longer meets the WTJWorg criteria on the reliability of what is written and proclaimed to be “True”?
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
Surely you know how to find it? Just type in Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in the ebay search bar. I came up with 87 results.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
Mr @Ray Devereaux what, for God's sake, is problematic or scandalous or blasphemous, in this comment above, for you ??
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
Sorry I jumped ahead of @Patiently waiting for Truth. I was just expressing what I thought was common knowledge.
Nope. Just the local apostate. 🙂
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Srecko Sostar in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
My comment have nothing with "enthusiasm" of any sort. I conveyed information regarding the creation and storage of documentation within an institution. And if that organization, like WTJWorg, is engaged in publishing, among other activities, then there are some technical and legal norms.
Private congregation data? ....and clergy/laity privileged relationship, too ? What is your definition of "Private Congregational Data"?
WTJWorg IS Private Company. Well, (does) that would mean how all documents inside WTJWorg organization are private?
JW Congregations are "private companies" inside WTJWorg Private Company. Elders are "appointed" or installed by GB (top managers or ecclesiastic-hierarchical board of directors) to collect various information about members and their activity (rank and file primarily). Members agree, more or less, about that. Who can and would have interest to see information/data about other members, about congregational activity, money, elder's decisions etc? Only few inside, i guess. Elders was instructed how to collect and how and when to destroy private and official notice, data, documents, memos and similar.
Magazines and books are another part of same issue. You speaking about "redundancy, digitization, typing errors, and technical errors in understanding (wrong) interpretations". Poor explanations and excuses you offer with this.
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Kick_Faceinator reacted to Witness in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
Oh the business aspect of religion. It is so far from what Jesus Christ taught. The evolution of this simple scripture is bringing it to extinction, in the world of religion...most importantly, in a religion that boasts it belongs to God.
"Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained from the world." James 1:27
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Kick_Faceinator got a reaction from Ray Devereaux in LIST OF PUBLICATIONS TO BE DISCARDED
Discarding books/data shouldn’t even be a topic of discussion for anyone teaching who is connected to Jesus Christ. You shouldn’t have to throw any teachings away if the branch teaching them was connected to the vine of Jesus Christ (John 15:5), they should have lasted forever as Jesus says those that teach who are in connection with him will have teachings that will last and never need to be changed/thrown away (John 15:16). The problem isn’t discarding the data, it’s way bigger in that, this proves the watchtower leadership hasn’t been connected to Jesus Christ in the first place. Their teachings are going rotten within a matter of a couple years and proves their publications are nothing more than farce.
“Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’” - Matthew 15:9