Jump to content
The World News Media

Pudgy

Member
  • Posts

    4,676
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    93

Reputation Activity

  1. Downvote
    Pudgy reacted to Dmitar in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    Yet, you still fail to see what the professor was attempting to discern by your meaningless example of two different issues, symbolic times lines, and generational limits. 
    One can overlap while the other runs without restrains. Aside from learning scripture, take a course on human nature of probabilities. 
  2. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to JW Insider in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    This is exactly the point. Thanks. The Watchtower has ALWAYS turned the generation into a zone of dates. When the Watchtower's previous zone of dates was no longer tenable, there was an excellent opportunity to understand it in the way that Robert Wohl would have described it. But instead, it became a zone of dates again when it was "determined" that the great tribulation must occur within the zone of dates before a younger generation of anointed (whose lives overlapped with the earlier generation of anointed) would themselves die out:
    *** w10 6/15 p. 5 United in Love—Annual Meeting Report ***
    Brother Barr made clear that the gathering would not continue indefinitely. He referred to Matthew 24:34, which says: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” He twice read the comment: “Jesus evidently meant that the lives of the anointed ones who were on hand when the sign began to be evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation.” We do not know the exact length of “this generation,” but it includes these two groups whose lives overlap. Even though the anointed vary in age, those in the two groups constituting the generation are contemporaries during part of the last days. How comforting it is to know that the younger anointed contemporaries of those older anointed ones who discerned the sign when it became evident beginning in 1914 will not die off before the great tribulation starts!
    As Brother Splane has explained, by using a chart, that generation has now become a zone of dates from 1914 (through at least 1992 when Fred Franz died) and then extending only so far out as to when the last of the once-contemporary, younger "generation" of anointed have not completely died out.
    That definition, although very specific, has become rather sloppy in the retelling. Just note the following two points that are now part of the explanation. I'll mark in red, the points that are problematic:
    *** ws14 1/15 pp. 30-31 pars. 14-16 “Let Your Kingdom Come”—But When? ***
    When prophecy was not fulfilled in the way that they expected in 1914, what did they do? Most of them continued serving Jehovah faithfully and endured trials and persecution. Over the years, most, if not all, of those anointed ones have remained faithful until death.
    15 In his prophecy about the last days of Satan’s world, Jesus said: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” (Read Matthew 24:33-35.) When Jesus mentioned “this generation,” we understand that he was speaking about two groups of anointed Christians. The first group was present in 1914 and understood that Christ began ruling as King in that year. Those who made up this group were not only alive in 1914, but they had also been anointed by holy spirit in or before that year.—Romans 8:14-17.
    16 All those in the second group included in “this generation” were not simply alive but were anointed with holy spirit during the time that some members of the first group were still alive on earth. So not every anointed person today is included in “this generation” whom Jesus spoke about. Today, those in the second group are getting older. Yet, Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:34 make us confident that at least some of “this generation will by no means pass away” before seeing the start of the great tribulation.
    '...most, if not all..."
    I'm not sure about the purpose of the claim made here, but the early Watchtowers indicated that "most" of the anointed during the period leading up to 1914 actually left the Watchtower Society. Many left immediately after 1914 failed to include the predictions for that year. (The Watchtower later pointed to 1915 as the actual date for the end of the Gentile Times.)  A much larger portion left during the 1917-1918 period based on the actions taken by Rutherford. By 1927-1928 when so many of Russell's teachings had been abandoned, it was apparently "MOST" of those who had been considered anointed in 1914 who had left the Watchtower Society by then. A few exceptions actually came back to the Watchtower. Long-time Governing Body member, Brother Karl Klein, left the Watchtower to join the Standfasters (Part of the "evil slave," per Rutherford), but Brother Klein came back. Listening to the stories and experiences from Karl Klein and Fred Franz and my great-grandfather, and one-time colporteur Percy Harding, they all claimed that it was MOST of the anointed who had been unfaithful, at least to the Watchtower. If the Watchtower's statement above is correct, it must be based on the idea that they were still faithful to Jehovah even after leaving the Watchtower Society, or that those who left were never anointed in the first place.
    This is reminiscent of the claim made in 1982 about the earlier Liberian persecution:
    *** w82 4/15 p. 26 par. 19 Enduring Joyfully Despite Persecution ***
    While a few did give way and compromise because of fear, the great majority maintained integrity.
    After that claim was made, someone pointed out the error and a correction was printed:
    *** w82 7/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
    . . . However, the Yearbook for 1977 states that the majority compromised their faith. Why this discrepancy?
    The statement in The Watchtower for April 15, 1982, is in error. Actually, according to the Yearbook of 1977, pages 176 and 178, there were about 100 Liberian Witnesses who went through the Gbarnga persecution maintaining integrity, while approximately 200 compromised their faith.
    "The first group was present in 1914 and understood that Christ began ruling as King in that year."
    I think that all of us know the problem with this claim. The first group that was present in 1914 did NOT understand that Christ began ruling as King in that year. For several more years, they all continued to claim that Jesus did NOT begin ruling as King in that year. Instead, the Watchtower continued to teach them that Jesus had begun ruling as King in 1878. Hints came about half-a-decade later that this date might change, or even get pushed back from 1878 to 1874 (See Rutherford's famous Cedar Point talk in 1922). But it wasn't until more than a decade later, in the late 1920's and early 1930's that 1914 became the new date for Jesus to have begun ruling as King.
    In fact, the idea that Jesus had been invisibly present since 1874 did not become officially and fully revised until 1943:
    *** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” . . .  Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia. . . .  Page 324 of the above book positively says: “The King’s presence or parousia began in 1914.”
    So, if none of the anointed ever really discerned the sign of Jesus Kingship and presence in 1914, and didn't discern it until 1943, then perhaps there wasn't even a real need to come up with the overlapping generations theory. I personally know someone who was anointed before 1943 who is still alive and faithful.
  3. Upvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from Thinking in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    …..
     

  4. Haha
    Pudgy got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    That sounds like the “Prostitutes wear shoes… you wear shoes … so you must be a prostitute” fallacy, TTH.
  5. Haha
    Pudgy got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    It was not meant as a taunt to make you angry, it was meant as a challenge to make you think.



  6. Upvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    I understand.
    I have asked several Elders, who could not explain it either. 
    One Elder was the smartest man at our Kingdom Hall. After I asked him he paused and replied (paraphrased) “I think they are trying the best they know how …”

    My gut feeling is that when Jesus was talking about “ …. This generation will not pass away until all these things occur … “, he meant HIS generation .. not the death of Fred Franz, as shown on GB Bro. David Splain’s chart. ( if memory serves …..)
    Whatever the case, I am sure the REAL TRUTH about the matter is what’re the Apostles understood the term “this generation” to mean, and I am guessing Jesus did not have a chart to explain it.
     
  7. Haha
    Pudgy got a reaction from Arauna in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    On an unrelated note, I DID find my chewed saliva encrusted yellow rubber football squeaky toy, so there is THAT.
  8. Haha
    Pudgy got a reaction from Anna in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    On an unrelated note, I DID find my chewed saliva encrusted yellow rubber football squeaky toy, so there is THAT.
  9. Downvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from Dmitar in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    …..
     

  10. Haha
    Pudgy got a reaction from Anna in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    May I make a request please.
    If you have to use that flowing script, would you please make it two times larger and change the color to a darker color. For some reason I can’t read it.
    thank you.
  11. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to Witness in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    It really might be you clearing your throat, since Pudgy was asking this question to Arauna. 
  12. Haha
    Pudgy got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    I must have missed something, and I do try to read all of your posts in their entirety.
    Can you please explain to me from the Bible, about the “overlapping generations“?
    I would like to understand what the Apostles understood about the “overlapping  generations”.
  13. Upvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from Anna in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    …..
     

  14. Thanks
  15. Like
    Pudgy got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    …..
     

  16. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    This totally contradicts my posts where I have stated that in my own opinion I WILL NOT be in that New world. 
    Many Anointed ones went through all that but only to be told that that are no longer considered to be of the F&DS. 
    The truth is that the GB tell you they are the F&DS and you believe them, although there is NO PROOF WHAT SO EVER, but because you worship them and not YHWH, you will believe those 8 men. Even though they twisted scripture such as the Romans 'superior authority', scripture, but you still serve them. 
    They were preaching that only JWs would be saved and that a person HAD TO BE A BAPTISED JW TO GET SAVED. 
    Now that may not be political but it has NO true foundation and it was only used to frighten people into the Org.
  17. Haha
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    A few of them are right here, methinks. Let’s see—a snake, a dodo, an albatross, a sloth….  Yeah, some of them are right here.  
  18. Upvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from JW Insider in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    At one time in history most of the people on Earth thought that the Earth was flat.
    And they thought that if you went out into the Atlantic Ocean far enough, “there be dragons”.
    Where did they learn this from?
    They learned It from people who sincerely believed it, and told them. Were the generation of teachers liars, each and everyone, to the up-and-coming generation?
    No, they were wrong based on sincere belief, regardless of the fact that it was not based on anything rational except their observations and conclusions, AND UNSOPHISTICATED THINKING ABILITY.
    In order to be a liar, you have to know that what you are telling is not true.
    …… like when one child who firmly believes in Santa Claus tells another child the whole complicated story of the North Pole, Santa‘s elves, etc. he is not lying, BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IT HIMSELF ….. he’s just perpetuating a fantasy.
    Such is the nature of delusions.
    Most peoples’ lives are so hard and miserable and lonely, that their delusions are the only comfort they have.
    Jury trials by “12 men good and true”, are based on the falsehood that you can vote on Truth, and many totally innocent men have died in prison, or been executed.
    ”STUFF HAPPENS”
    If you can do better, do so.
    The sad truth is most of what EVERYBODY BELIEVES …….
    ……. Is WRONG.
     

  19. Upvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from Thinking in KINGDOM HALLS REOPEN IN UK   
    Too true, for example at last weeks meeting on Zoom they were telling about the arrangements for the memorial Friday, April 15 at a local municipal convention center, and they needed to allocate funds to pay for it and as it turned out the rental cost for each congregation was  $671, with the total cost 3 times as there will be 3 congregations attending.
    There are officially 109 people in our congregation but I have noticed on Zoom that there is only about 35 to 45 people and it’s consistent weekend after weekend after weekend so I do the math and I thought ….. wow !
    So a brother made the motion that the Congregation spend $671 and another brother seconded the motion and it came to vote. They asked all the brothers that voted to spend the money to raise their hands, and nobody raised their hand. Nobody at all.
    Then he asked at all those who oppose the motion raise their hand, and nobody raised their hand. Nobody at all.
    Then the brother announced after a pause, very long pause that he was gonna put it down that it passed unanimously.
    He also said that everyone would be required to wear a mask at the municipal center, and I know in our County all mask restrictions have been lifted, so I would imagine that this is something that JW headquarters is requiring. (?)
    I think everyone was just stunned at the $671 cost, I know I was. Perhaps everyone else was just doing the math in their head and forgot to raise their hands either time.
    As an aside, I would assume that if there are any cartoon Penguins attending the Assembly, or the Memorial in two weeks, that they would not have to wear a mask.
    Cartoon Penguins don’t have ears.
  20. Haha
    Pudgy got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in KINGDOM HALLS REOPEN IN UK   
    ….. they, like cartoon cave men, communicate wit open air superscript, or thought balloons.
     

  21. Haha
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in KINGDOM HALLS REOPEN IN UK   
    It may be they fear you will be one of those who, if attending in person, will forget to lower your hand after comments, a carryover from Zoom days.
  22. Upvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in KINGDOM HALLS REOPEN IN UK   
    Here in the United States we have a One Day Circuit Assembly starting on Saturday April 2, and it is also being streamed … starts in about 25 minutes!
    …. still have to wear cloth masks, or if viewing on-line, clothing is optional.
    I will be wearing my Sunday Best dress collar.

  23. Haha
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in KINGDOM HALLS REOPEN IN UK   
    No, they are opening to read your announcement of why you left, after which they will close again.
  24. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in KINGDOM HALLS REOPEN IN UK   
    It seems the Kingdom Halls are reopening here this Sunday in the UK ( 3 April 2022)  in time for the Special Talk and the Memorial. 
  25. Haha
    Pudgy reacted to Dmitar in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    An IP address is a physical address assigned to a specific user. How do you think, governments can trace an address to a specific user, unless you're suggesting you guys are excellent hackers, which would be difficult to accept. 😉
    If you are talking about people trying to disrupt their online usage with garbage by spamming or hacking, then, yes! I can see there would be an effort made. That also depends on if the hacks are willful for prosecution. Then, it's a matter of time, when those losers will be caught. Thanks for the tip.
    This is incorrect, since a gathering is formed after 2 or 3, which now becomes organized, and the homes of the users now become a building of worship. You need to stop lying to yourself. With me, you will never win, nor convince.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.