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Pudgy

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  1. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to xero in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    8  Now we know that the Law is fine if one applies it properly,* 9  recognizing that law is made, not for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless+ and rebellious, ungodly and sinners, disloyal* and profane, murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, manslayers, 10  sexually immoral people,* men who practice homosexuality,* kidnappers, liars, perjurers,* and everything else that is in opposition to the wholesome* teaching+ 11  according to the glorious good news of the happy God, with which I was entrusted. - 1 Timothy 1:8-10
    Adding from the secular realm, Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem which says essentially that w/in any given system of axioms there are statements which may be true which one is unable to demonstrate to be true w/o reference to additional axioms outside this system I'd say the legal take on any given specific circumstance can never provide a complete answer w/o reference to other axioms outside the accepted set.
    This is not to negate the general principles regarding the sanctity of marriage, nor did Moses who gave an allowance of divorcing on account of "the hardness of the heart" violate said sanctity, but w/in the imperfect realm of humans one could argue on legal grounds that the wilful murder of ones own children would be of sufficient moral reprehensibleness to allow a scriptural divorce on the part of the innocent mate.
    I could easily rabbinicize any number of scriptures which would allow for a divorce by following the general principles on which these are based.
  2. Downvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from Dmitar in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied
    I carefully read Anna's list of JW core beliefs, and responded "Amen", although about some I have been thinking about all the extenuating circumstances that might affect the absoluteness of some of them.
    For Example, in U.S. Law there are many things that are felonies, but State Supreme Courts have ruled that although these felonies are lawfully prosecuted, the individual specifics make them AS APPLIED to certain cases make the application of those laws un-Constitutional, either by State, or Federal Constitutions.
    In other words, the specific circumstances of the crime determines whether or not those laws can be applied against a specific person, in a specific set of circumstances.
    ...... Lets suppose a family of five, where all the family members are Jehovah's Witnesses, and the mother has tired of taking care of her three young children, puts them in a car, and deliberately drives that car into a lake, and drowns them. 
    It's first-degree premeditated murder.
    She is convicted in a court of law, and is sentenced to three life sentences with no possibility of parole.
    QUESTION # 1 :     Is the husband, whose three children were murdered by his wife, expected to live his life alone, and never re-marry?
    QUESTION #2:      If he does, say after a dozen years, remarry, will he be disfellowshipped?
     
     
  3. Like
    Pudgy reacted to Srecko Sostar in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    Thanks again. The enumeration presented shows on which elements the doctrinal settings of WTJWorg are based. It also contains a list of things you act on because of accepted doctrines, but also because of some direct actions in the past that you seek to emulate.
    Certainly, we must acknowledge that some of the doctrines on the list are the product of today's JW's interpretation or understanding of the meaning of biblical passages, and this is subject to further discussion, which has already been discussed or will be discussed in the future.
    If you allow me, I would say that only some of the things you mentioned are recognizable as "religious doctrine". And some other things are part of the administrative and organizational nature, which refer to some patterns of behavior and thought of people thousands of years ago. That patterns must not be wrong because they are old, but are just reflection of life conditions of people in past time. 
    When you or other people mentioning Jesus words from Matt 22:39 - The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’, -  I would never thought about them as "religious doctrine". Those words are many miles away from any sort of "religious doctrine". They are unimaginably more sublime and important than most "doctrines". Well, in fact of all the "doctrines", I would venture to say. .....This is evident from question: Was the law created/made for man or was man created/made for the law? In Mark 2:27 Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 
    Question; Was Sabbath "core doctrine"? or some minor rule? Sabbath was/is part of 10 Commandments. In that/such context perhaps many believers would say it is "core doctrine". Jesus showed another perspective.
    According to, great caution is needed when it comes to "core doctrines". They must be in the service of man, not the other way around. Understanding the doctrines and choosing the doctrines by which we should look at ourselves and others, our own lives and the lives of other people, and derive other instructions and guidelines can easily turn into a multiplication of life-suffocating rules.
    We should also see what the differences and similarities are when we use another term - “principles”. Are "principles" in the service of "doctrines"? Are they equal or are “principles” more important?  
  4. Haha
    Pudgy reacted to Witness in DEFINING APOSTASY   
    This isn't about Russia.  It is about your leadership who dominate the priesthood - the GB who "direct" the elder body to "represent the royal priesthood".  Before you spout off in ignorance, READ THE LETTER.
  5. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to Anna in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    I will answer for Tom:
    (Notice, no overlapping generation there 😀)
    God. We worship the one true and Almighty God, the Creator, whose name is Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Revelation 4:11) He is the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.—Exodus 3:6; 32:11; John 20:17.
    Bible. We recognize the Bible as God’s inspired message to humans. (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16) We base our beliefs on all 66 of its books, which include both the “Old Testament” and the “New Testament.” Professor Jason D. BeDuhn aptly described it when he wrote that Jehovah’s Witnesses built “their system of belief and practice from the raw material of the Bible without predetermining what was to be found there.” *
    While we accept the entire Bible, we are not fundamentalists. We recognize that parts of the Bible are written in figurative or symbolic language and are not to be understood literally.—Revelation 1:1.
    Jesus. We follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ and honor him as our Savior and as the Son of God. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 5:31) Thus, we are Christians. (Acts 11:26) However, we have learned from the Bible that Jesus is not Almighty God and that there is no Scriptural basis for the Trinity doctrine.—John 14:28.
    The Kingdom of God. This is a real government in heaven, not a condition in the hearts of Christians. It will replace human governments and accomplish God’s purpose for the earth. (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:9, 10) It will take these actions soon, for Bible prophecy indicates that we are living in “the last days.”—2 Timothy 3:1-5; Matthew 24:3-14.
    Jesus is the King of God’s Kingdom in heaven. He began ruling in 1914.—Revelation 11:15.
    Salvation. Deliverance from sin and death is possible through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 4:12) To benefit from that sacrifice, people must not only exercise faith in Jesus but also change their course of life and get baptized. (Matthew 28:19, 20; John 3:16; Acts 3:19, 20) A person’s works prove that his faith is alive. (James 2:24, 26) However, salvation cannot be earned—it comes through “the undeserved kindness of God.”—Galatians 2:16, 21.
    Heaven. Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, and the faithful angels reside in the spirit realm. * (Psalm 103:19-21; Acts 7:55) A relatively small number of people—144,000—will be resurrected to life in heaven to rule with Jesus in the Kingdom.—Daniel 7:27; 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 5:9, 10; 14:1, 3.
    Earth. God created the earth to be mankind’s eternal home. (Psalm 104:5; 115:16; Ecclesiastes 1:4) God will bless obedient people with perfect health and everlasting life in an earthly paradise.—Psalm 37:11, 34.
    Evil and suffering. These began when one of God’s angels rebelled. (John 8:44) This angel, who after his rebellion was called “Satan” and “Devil,” persuaded the first human couple to join him, and the consequences have been disastrous for their descendants. (Genesis 3:1-6; Romans 5:12) In order to settle the moral issues raised by Satan, God has allowed evil and suffering, but He will not permit them to continue forever.
    Death. People who die pass out of existence. (Psalm 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) They do not suffer in a fiery hell of torment.
    God will bring billions back from death by means of a resurrection. (Acts 24:15) However, those who refuse to learn God’s ways after being raised to life will be destroyed forever with no hope of a resurrection.—Revelation 20:14, 15.
    Family. We adhere to God’s original standard of marriage as the union of one man and one woman, with sexual immorality being the only valid basis for divorce. (Matthew 19:4-9) We are convinced that the wisdom found in the Bible helps families to succeed.—Ephesians 5:22–6:1.
    Our worship. We do not venerate the cross or any other images. (Deuteronomy 4:15-19; 1 John 5:21) Key aspects of our worship include the following:
    Praying to God.—Philippians 4:6.
    Reading and studying the Bible.—Psalm 1:1-3.
    Meditating on what we learn from the Bible.—Psalm 77:12.
    Meeting together to pray, study the Bible, sing, express our faith, and encourage fellow Witnesses and others.—Colossians 3:16; Hebrews 10:23-25.
    Preaching the “good news of the Kingdom.”—Matthew 24:14.
    Helping those in need.—James 2:14-17.
    Constructing and maintaining Kingdom Halls and other facilities used to further our worldwide Bible educational work.—Psalm 127:1.
    Sharing in disaster relief.—Acts 11:27-30.
    Our organization. We are organized into congregations, each of which is overseen by a body of elders. However, the elders do not form a clergy class, and they are unsalaried. (Matthew 10:8; 23:8) We do not practice tithing, and no collections are ever taken at our meetings. (2 Corinthians 9:7) All our activities are supported by anonymous donations.
    The Governing Body, a small group of mature Christians who serve at our world headquarters, provides direction for Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide.—Matthew 24:45.
    Our unity. We are globally united in our beliefs. (1 Corinthians 1:10) We also work hard to have no social, ethnic, racial, or class divisions. (Acts 10:34, 35; James 2:4) Our unity allows for personal choice, though. Each Witness makes decisions in harmony with his or her own Bible-trained conscience.—Romans 14:1-4; Hebrews 5:14.
    Our conduct. We strive to show unselfish love in all our actions. (John 13:34, 35) We avoid practices that displease God, including the misuse of blood by taking blood transfusions. (Acts 15:28, 29; Galatians 5:19-21) We are peaceful and do not participate in warfare. (Matthew 5:9; Isaiah 2:4) We respect the government where we live and obey its laws as long as these do not call on us to disobey God’s laws.—Matthew 22:21; Acts 5:29.
    Our relationships with others. Jesus commanded: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.” He also said that Christians “are no part of the world.” (Matthew 22:39; John 17:16) So we try to “work what is good toward all,” yet we remain strictly neutral in political affairs and avoid affiliation with other religions. (Galatians 6:10; 2 Corinthians 6:14) However, we respect the choices that others make in such matters.—Romans 14:12.
    https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jehovah-witness-beliefs/
  6. Downvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in DEFINING APOSTASY   
    How about sharing with us the details?
    I generally don't read stuff more than two paragraphs (They taught us that at the Daisy Hill Puppy Farm), but if you shared enough details to give credibility to your statement, I would read it all.
    Otherwise, I will give unsubstantiated statements like that considerations as a fantasy.
    It's easier for my statement about the 8 million letters to the Russian Federation, as my direct knowledge that nobody read THOSE letters is substantiated by a LACK of evidence of a reply, or that even one of the letters was read. To the best of my knowledge, ZERO commentary anywhere.
    If anyone has evidence that my statement about that is wrong, please correct me.
    If you have solid evidence to support YOUR statements, I would like to see it.
    Otherwise, the reasonable thing to do, in my dogged opinion, is to consider your statements about "Rachel's" letters wishful thinking ... a fantasy told and retold.
  7. Haha
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in DEFINING APOSTASY   
    I am a JW leader, a very very very important one, let me tell you, so of course I received one.
    But since it quotes every verse in the Bible for support, I will not be able to respond until I read the entire Book again, and since I have many other things to do (that is alway true of us leaders) it will be a few months before I can respond to it.
    Seriously, what is wrong with the crazy woman (answered my own question), composing a tongue-lashing letter so astoundingly long and having it 
    Self-important, anyone?
  8. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to Arauna in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    The Watchtower study for this weekend is so encouraging. It shows that Jehovah forgives all who worship him.  We must not condemn ourselves for what we are because the ransom covers it. Many Witnesses have sinned and often feel unworthy because of it .....but it encourages all to only focus on today and the future.  Forget the past.  It it what you do from now on which will define your future. 
    The slave have taught us all the core teachings we need to get into the new system. They are imperfect humans and made mistakes, but they too, they need to only focus on the present and the future.  It is their relationship with Jehovah at this moment and the future which defines them - not the past. 
     
  9. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    Are you sure this is not a matter of “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? Kicking against the goads makes it hard for you?”
    Seriously. I respect you for saying this, for many unhappy people will nonetheless maintain that they are happy, I think yielding to peer pressure that would equate being unhappy with being a loser. When you read relatively high percentages of those who say they are overall happy AND relatively high percentages of those who say they are consumed with anxiety, stress, and depression, to the point of medical treatment, you know something is amiss.
    Nor would I ever suggest that all of Jehovah’s people are happy in their present life—all creation is sighing and groaning, is the way Paul puts it—but they get by with what humanists would regard as “cheating,” keeping their gaze on the things above instead of the things below, keeping their eye on the prize when tears and pain will pass away, with earth restored to paradise, looking to the resurrection hope, keeping their eye ‘simple’ in the present system, and so forth.
    Of course, the GB encourages that view and builds upon it because the Bible encourages and builds upon it. It is integral to Paul saying he has learned the secret of how to be content regardless of his circumstances, in times of abundance and in times of want.
    Seriously, what are you doing here, running down the GB, making that a significant project in your life? What is the point of it? Are you not kicking against the goads? 
    The core doctrines of JWs all hold up in their eyes. If I recall, you have questioned what the core doctrines are, as though you would include matters of immediate timing among them. I’ve thought you must be disingenuous in the question, for every Witness knows what they are, and for that reason I don’t go there. But maybe you are sincere in the question, having been away so long, and surrounded by those on a crusade to undercut, significantly contributing to it yourself—maybe all that has served to muddy the waters on what any Witness has no problem with, confusing the ‘core doctrines’ with interpretations of just when the end will come.
    Look, everyone knows that looking into the future is not a piece of cake—why keep harping on it? Witnesses are content that the bros taking the lead are doing the best they can, are overall conducting themselves honorably and in fear of God. Most importantly, on matters of advertising and safeguarding the core doctrines, they are doing splendidly. No one else is representing kingdom interests better. Never is it that ALL the core teachings are represented elsewhere, and with the majority of faiths, very few indeed are represented, even none at all. Why do you keep harping on the ones who have succeeded and are succeeding in this? Particularly if you suggest that such a course may lead ones to a place you occupy, a place where you are not very happy and have not been for a long time? What’s the point of it? 
    It may be that you are dissatisfied, not the with 20% (as Arauna puts it) but with the 80% Maybe you think the Bible itself is but the word of men, and that to impute divine inspiration into it is nonsense. It is far easier to understand your critical course in this event. It is far more intellectually honest to acknowledge this as your basis for discontent. If so, these are the matters to grapple with, if that be possible, the 80%, rather than taking shots at the forecasting ability of those taking the lead in the JW organization. 
    Come now, attend to these things if you can. The point is, should we die in this system of things, that we should die “old and satisfied with days.”
  10. Downvote
    Pudgy got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in DEFINING APOSTASY   
    Several years ago JWs worldwide sent about 8 million letters to the Russsian Federation, and to the best of anyones' knowledge, not a single one was read.
    The chances of "Rachel" having her letters read by any JW are less than that.
    ...especially if it was more than one paragraph long.
    That makes it LESS than Zero.
  11. Like
    Pudgy got a reaction from admin in A pipeline ruptured in the Gulf of Mexico and now the ocean is on fire.   
    No, they are using the pressurized water to try and push the oil back to the surface fire, so it doesn't spread out.
    One thing to consider is that even if all the oil "got away" it would be like dropping ONE DROP of oil in a bathtub full of water, then dipping a sewing needle in the water, and what sticks to the needle is the REAL environmental impact.
    Remember, at one time the entire Earth was covered with volcanoes, and extremely high pressure gas vents of methane and other poisons, at the same time Mars had an oxygen atmosphere, and oceans.
    All things change.
     
  12. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to ComfortMyPeople in Physical attendance at meetings/assemblies and "Zoom" attendance   
    My vision is that the G.B. Please note that the format that we have followed for decades is not the only one. I mean: since there were 3 big annual meetings in Israel, we had three big meetings -assemblies-.
    Kissing, hugging, touching, "sniffing" us is biblical and appropriate. But during the week the meeting ends late, the children have to go to school early, they have to have dinner ... Well, why not the meeting during the week for zoom, and the face-to-face weekend, at the k.h.?
    Large assemblies could be made voluntary. Brothers eager to meet others, to meet, to embrace, to take photos, to meet potential future spouses... These meetings could be prepared and voluntarily attended (as now international ones)
    But those of us who want to listen, learn, those of us who do not have much money, or many children, or sick family members, and who attend an assembly lasting several days involves a great effort and small returns (in terms of learning), because we could have those assemblies in the zoom format, for several weekends, like lately.
    It follows from the above that all assembly halls could be sold. Send home hundreds of brothers who are employed to support them. Save thousands of hours of volunteer work preparing assemblies worldwide, save money ...
    To keep it short: we would use the best of both worlds. Face-to-face + zoom.
    (Sometimes I ask Jehovah to "enlighten the C.G. on this - sure, but I suppose that many, many factors escape me ,,,)
  13. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in How would solid, controvertible evidence of Extraterrestrial Aliens affect your Theology?   
    I mean if they screw up as much as we do, they’ll need some provision to smooth over their screwups. And the ransom provision is for us. We ain’t sharing.
    On the other hand, if they came all the way from outer space to find us, and not we them, then perhaps they don’t screw up and don’t need the ransom so badly.
  14. Haha
    Pudgy got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    ...which brings up "DOGCOIN".
    Sorta like "BitCoin", but with a happy Puppy on the face of each coin!
    If you invest now at $1.00 per coin, each one printed on the face of a dog biscuit that tastes like cardboard, it will quickly grow to be worth THOUSANDS of times that!
    The potential is infinite and everlasting!
    ...after all ... If Everyone in the banking and investment community believes in "BitCoin", you can believe in "DOGCOIN"!
     
    ....wherever fine Pet Supplies are sold.
  15. Haha
    Pudgy got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    I am not looking for perfection. I would not have judged Jesus.
    Your premises are flawed, and painted with the wrong color with an overly broad brush.
    Until the ONE SENTENCE (if memory serves) in the February 2017 Watchtower, the leadership of the Society was quite content to LET, by inference HEAVILY implied and repeated over, and over, and over ........ and over and over and over ... that they WERE inspired and infallible., and make such presumptuous and cringe worthy (paraphrased) statements as "Jehovah and Christ Jesus trusts us, so therefore you can trust us"
    .... makes me want to hold my hand tightly over my wallet.
     
     
    ... uh ... if I had a wallet .....
  16. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to ApostaBabe Linda James in How would solid, controvertible evidence of Extraterrestrial Aliens affect your Theology?   
    So I gave this some thought. And I came up with this. When I made this I thought about sharing by way of going to them as well as them arriving here on 🌎. I can recall year's back. The Pope said that they were open to sharing the gospel with Extraterrestrials if or when they arrived here on 🌎. So if they do show up "and want to study the Bible with us," out of all four bible's that these astronauts who are holding, which Bible do you think would best suit them? I'm going to go with the kingdom Interlinear. 
    Which one would you choose and why?
  17. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in How would solid, controvertible evidence of Extraterrestrial Aliens affect your Theology?   
    Nah. “In all the inhabited earth” will suffice. Whatever gig they have going up there on whatever planet, they’ll just have to work it out themselves.
  18. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to JW Insider in Want to know what the Four Horsemen Represent?   
    Not saying that BroRando hasn't been here before under a different name, or that he has. But I'm sure he is not CC/BtK/Allen/etc/etc/etc/etc.
  19. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in Want to know what the Four Horsemen Represent?   
    They’ve used a phrase or two in common, that’s all. 
    It would be a remarkable change of m.o. if he was BroRando. Changes from CC to BtK to Allen to whoever—the “new” persona is instantly recognizable. BroRando is significantly different.
    For one thing, CC was seldom very interested in offering anything. He just was here to shoot people and their ideas down. Say what you will about BroRando, he certainly is interested in offering stuff.
  20. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    It is not as though the digital world is their invention. They adapt to it. They’d be dinosaurs not to. Everyone fixes glitches on the fly now. Should they be the only ones to buck that trend? 
  21. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to TrueTomHarley in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    You’ll just have to learn the hard way, I see.
    It actually is, for an emergency worker. 
    When you shoot yourself in the foot, you just grimace as you patch the wound and carry on. You don’t resolve never to shoot again.
    When de Vienne & Shultz ran their early book past the organization, it was received without comment. She speculated as to why this might be. One possibility she raised was that they “are incurious as to their own past.” Tamp it down just slightly and I would agree. They don’t do past too much there, they do the future. 
    Should they “lead by apology,” which is all the rage today? They don’t want to find themselves in the shoes of Lot, issuing counsel only to find that his sons-in-law think he is joking. 
    It may have been the same organization back then, but it was different people. There’s no sense in tearing your hair out over what they did or didn’t do. I’m amazed people have the time to persevorate over the old stuff as much as they do. That’s not to say I disapprove of it. In fact, I somewhat envy it. But there is so much forward and in the present that limits overly-ruminating on the past. They’re humans and humans can screw up. Since the beginning of time it has been so. It was so in Bible times and can be easily seen in the scriptures. Acknowledge it, and move on to meet the present.
    Exactly.
  22. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to Srecko Sostar in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    If we transfer this assessment now to the question in the title of the topic, Did everyone notice ... then we need to notice at least two, three things:
    1) That a large part of JW members will not notice the differences between text in the paper form and  in digital form of already published publications.
    2) That newer generations of JW members have no idea what happened and what is happening to them “right under their noses” about history of own Organization.
    3) That changes to the official text on WTJWorg applications can happen in an instant, and that what you read this morning may look different if you read in the afternoon. So, for some readers, it may create insecurity in their own mind and memory, which means the mental and emotional instability of an individual.
    4) That digital technology enables a great possibility of manipulation
    .., etc
  23. Like
    Pudgy got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    I will stipulate that among Jehovah's Witnesses the basic core truths are infinitely valuable, as well as the discipline afforded by advice of the Governing Body as to virtue, morality and righteous principles.
    The 20% of teachings you mention may have been understood incorrectly .... because they taught things that were wrong, self-aggrandizing, silly, and grossly inconsistent, stupid, or just plain creepy.
    This makes their credibility crash and burn.
    It's like the son who gets good advice from his father from time to time, but most of the time the father is a drunk, a bully, and proclaims that the Planet Mars and Mars Candy Bars have a common heritage, and produces charts and graphs, and millions of words to "prove" it.
    Can you imagine Jesus on the Mount of Olives, with his Disciples all around him, when asked when his Kingdom would be established, holding up a Bro. David Splaine "Overlapping Generations" chart and lecturing from that?
    My guess is that the actual percentages are closer to 15% being right and 85% wrong.
    In warfare, this is known as a massacre.
     
  24. Like
    Pudgy got a reaction from xero in How would solid, controvertible evidence of Extraterrestrial Aliens affect your Theology?   
    You REALLY need to see that TED video!
    Probably me, more than you ... and it is only 17 minutes long.
    The picture you have is a landscape photograph.

  25. Upvote
    Pudgy reacted to Anna in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    I already said that I have learned not to trust statements made in such a manner. It seems that those who write them have not learned from the past, because they write them in the same way today.
    Regardless of historical time frame and differing values etc. saying "we really don't know, but this is our opinion" is never out of fashion. Making bold statements as if they are 100% correct and infallible is neither wise nor discreet.....at any time.
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