Pudgy

Imagine, then, that approved association with Jehovah's people MUST include acceptance of a mix of secular chronology and "Bible" chronology!!
*** w86 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?
. . .That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ’s foretold presence.

*** w83 1/1 p. 12 par. 5 The Kingdom Issue to the Fore! ***
Properly, then, the ending of the Gentile Times in the latter half of 1914 still stands on a historical basis as one of the fundamental Kingdom truths to which we must hold today.
 
Rather than:
(2 Timothy 3:15-17) . . .. All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Exactly on each point!!!
Now imagine Jehovah telling a "faitfhul slave" or pre-cursor of that "faithful slave" that the only way Jesus is going to distinguish between the 5 wise virgins and the 5 foolish virgins (in our time period) is based on their acceptance of a specific mix of secular chronology and "Bible" chronology.
And it's a chronology that started out as:
Oh look how great Ptolemy is; all astronomers agree that his dates are perfectly well-established! Which soon turned into:
Look how terrible Ptolemy is; his chronology is suspect because he gives different dates than the ones we need prior to 539. Let's go so far as to highlight a book that calls him a "criminal."  Which turned to:
Oh look how great the Nabonidus Chronicle is; it proves that Cyrus overtook him in his 17th year. Which turned to: 
Oh wait, let's stop mentioning the Nabonidus Chronicle; turns out that the number 17 was added by expert secular authorities, and that the same chronicle links him directly to the full length of Neriglissar's reign, which is the one tiny window of vulnerability we still need to raise suspicion about a possible 20 year gap!! Which turned to:
Oh look how great Strm. Cambyses is, it tells us directly that 539 is the only absolute date in ancient history!! Which turned to:
Whoops! Now we have to admit that this only works if we accept the authority of secular experts to correct numerous known mistakes and copyist errors on that same tablet, the astronomical tablets' understanding, and ancient tablet methods for measurements of two eclipses, and the authority of modern experts to date those eclipses taking into account the slowdown of the earth by about 16,000 seconds, and a non-contemporary King's list (like Ptolemy's) that is assumed to be correct, and some secular business contract tablets that help establish the length of the reign of Cyrus and Cambyses, (and which we reject when used elsewhere) and some [hi]stories by much later Greek historians that we don't really trust on most other matters. Which turned to:
Look how great the Olympiad dating system is; if we accept that it has been properly tied to the current BC/AD eras, it appears to tells us that the dates for Cyrus are accurate. Which turns to:
Oh wait! We reject the same Olympiad dating system even from much more recent times when it conflicts with our theory of Artaxerxes which we would like to say is 10 years off.  

The BIG question is …
… is it worth all that effort to prove something happened that really didn’t happen,  in 1914?

…. ah yes ….
…… the “Closed Club”  ….

…. ah yes ….
…… the “Closed Club”  ….

A greater den of scum and villainy has never been than in the closed club. I do my best to keep them in line, because someone has to do it—I owe it to the old hen—but let me tell you, it’s exhausting.

As an aside, note that the entire relative timeline from the beginning of  Neo-Babylonian to the Persian empire can easily be figured out without any reference to astronomy or even BCE dates.
The whole reason the WTS makes such a big deal out of our "traditional" date for the destruction of Jerusalem is based on a relative chronology from 539, not an absolute chronology of the time period. So a relative chronology is all one needs to debunk it. You don't even need to know if 539 was correct or not. You don't need BCE dates at all. Just the widely available archaeology without any need for software or assumptions about any potential copyist's errors, eclipses, planetary positions.
The contemporary business documents alone are more than enough to debunk the WTS chronology. And there are tens of thousands of those stone "witnesses" all consistently pointing to the same timeline. That's why the great emphasis in the WTS publications to constantly sow seeds of doubt about those tablets. I think that, as a group, the WTS is the biggest opposer of the tablets -- and the biggest opposer of ALL Neo-Babylonian archaeology.
 

The upshot of all this so far feels a little bit like a carnival side-show "cover the spot" game only worse.
You have to get the cuneiform translations correct (some argue about the translations)
You have to argue for the cuneiform documents not being altered (some argue they've been altered)
You have to download multiple pieces of software and plot and print each one so you can scrutinize them. (make sure they all have the same resolution and viewpoint)
You have to remember that weird carry the one math thing (or is it minus the one) for BCE dates when you put it into the software.
You have to assume that the software is computing all this correctly, so you'll want to get a chart of eclipses and spot check the software using eclipses in modern times and locations.
You have to assume these have correctly created the right constellations using Babylonian/Assyrian names.
Then you have to research and see if there's evidence that the intercalary months which got added, got added when and where the authorities say they got added. (not all agree)

Or you can just quote your favorite authority and go with that.

In Land Surveying it works the same way in spatial location as in temporal location.
You have to have solid data in both systems to fit “System A” to “System B”, and only then can you translate and rotate so there are no gaps or overlap.
Without a solid “benchmark” in BOTH systems, your data will not match.

In Land Surveying it works the same way in spatial location as in temporal location.
You have to have solid data in both systems to fit “System A” to “System B”, and only then can you translate and rotate so there are no gaps or overlap.
Without a solid “benchmark” in BOTH systems, your data will not match.

Before my time, they sold literature for money or exchanged it for some material goods (eg eggs or similar). Later we said that this "voluntere preaching work" was supported by voluntary contributions and that the tenant could give some money of his choice. Later it was stopped because it is money that was not declared as income and taxed.
Apropos the cessation of preaching. I think it's an outdated dogma because new "clarifications" have arrived, about how people being able to turn to God at the last minute and be saved. According to this new explanation, it no longer makes sense to rely on the idea, from the past, of "stopping preaching" and "closing the doors of the contemporary Ark".
George, you have to keep up with the organization! You're behind! lol

It’s not so much the tying of the shoes, but getting the head unstuck from the water bucket.

In Land Surveying it works the same way in spatial location as in temporal location.
You have to have solid data in both systems to fit “System A” to “System B”, and only then can you translate and rotate so there are no gaps or overlap.
Without a solid “benchmark” in BOTH systems, your data will not match.

Oh, it’s nothing like in the closed club. Their lack of understanding is so great they barely know how to tie their shoes.

The only way I've found any historians able to date with any certainty events in the past is when the initial recorders were accurate as to both the astronomical events these were seeing as well as the events which were occurring at the same time. Without the astronomical events you don't have any precision. Of course I'm referring to dates prior to our Common Era.

… and, Georgie, if your reading comprehension was not so blinded by your Agenda, you would have read that my explaining my downvote had NOTHING to do with you … it was a common courtesy I felt was necessary.
Me … not you.
Knowing your propensity to misunderstand everything, I half-expected a protest against horseshoes.

Jehovah’s name and sovereignty cannot be “tarnished”.  
The opinions and ideas and slanders of mentally ill earthworms cannot tarnish humans.
Same thing.
The Sovereign Creator of the Universe is not a pouty liberal snowflake.

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation.
You are so clueless it’s embarrassing to read your posts!
It is NOT considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to execute people for crimes. It is considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to deny communications and citizenship to anyone, no matter how heinous they break the rules.  
Humans need the connections to other humans, same as food, water and air. Take Vitamin C out of a human’s diet and he WILL DIE , slowly and very painfully, his body disintegrating and falling apart. 
The same with disfellowshipping for matters that are not true, clear and present, REAL, emergencies.
That’s why Jesus gave instructions in Matthew 18 EXACTLY how to do it.
Do JWs do it that way?
… not even close.
The problem is … historically, organized religions and their minions LOVE a witch hunt.

It’s not about you, Georgie ……

…. could be worse …. could be Hillary Clinton in a pants suit ….

It’s not about you, Georgie ……

One thing I have learned … Judges and Government officials msy be wrong, but THEY have the bayonets.
Some things just have to be endured.

The submerged iceberg, of which it is tempting to focus on the visible tip, is the Norwegian judge’s words that he finds it ‘reasonable that boyfriends and girlfriends are going to have sex with one another.’ Make no mistake that if he didn’t find it ‘reasonable,’ as previous generations have not, he would be more amenable to the Witnesses’ discipline. He might still find it severe, but he would not likely find it illegal.
But he has acquiesced to a new norm like that of my extended family, in which a 14-year-old daughter dates a 16-year-old who has his drivers’ license. As long as they are home by 9 PM, not a problem. ‘He’s a good kid,’ they say of him. And, as kids go, he probably is.  But, forget about Bible principles.
The challenge, which can be expected to increase, is to navigate Jehovah’s organization amidst a world that disdains the values it stand for, that considers Bible morality backwards and even harmful, and that begins to concoct laws against it.
Even Matthew raises no objection to this. Maybe he doesn’t know of the judge’s words. Maybe he knows but blows them off as nothing, joining the church world insistent upon retaining the label ‘Christian’ but not so insistent upon the conduct that identifies a person as one, being more outraged over discipline than the immoral conduct that calls for it.
Suicide is bad, so it is right if the Christian organization takes it seriously, modifying procedures, perhaps partly for that reason. It’s all good and welcome. Be proactive as you can. Many things done can be done differently. Many things can be tweaked to take into account changing times. It appears this is happening.
But it should also be kept in mind that suicide is all the rage among the young today. They have inherited an impossible world from older generations (who also do not apologize for it) and many of them break under the strain.
When my wife and I visited Ithaca, we passed a bridge on which obscenities were painted about Cornell, presumably due to the suicides that take place, some by jumping off that bridge. Ought Cornell be held liable for putting so much pressure upon young people? Or ought their parents be held liable, for pressuring the importance of ‘success’ at all costs? Anyone apologize for handing them such a world?
Or what of this young person crying because she works at a good job and cannot afford rent. Just like that, it goes up by $900 in a month and she can no longer afford to eat.. Anyone apologize to her over that?
https://www.dailydot.com/news/woman-has-to-cut-back-on-eating/
Or adults create AI, and just like that, it is used against children, deep-faking them naked and in sexual acts. No apologies there, either. Schools themselves are nightmares to attend, at least in the U.S, where bullying without consequence runs rampant, and yet students are sentenced into such unsafe places—it’s not as though they can opt out. Any apologies? Not only is there not, but there is a steady stream of people with degrees telling of how they are about to turn the situation around, just as they were 40 years ago.
It is a pretty lengthy list of how today’s world has absolutely failed its young people, and many of them take their lives over it.
As ‘repressive’ as some Witness families might be, as much as some might view them as ‘hemming people in,’ they are also sources of support and stability. You do not want to cut yourself off from your family. But the young today are encouraged to do just that, cut themselves off from where there is a safety net to leap to where there is not. All a young person must do is abide by family rules, while they are living with family, and they are fine. Previous generations, for the most part, have recognized and supported this basic fact of human life. The present one does not, and is being encouraged to not recognize and recognize  it by people who will not be there to break  a young person’s fall should they take one.
As much as I hear that Jehovah’s Witnesses are ‘insular,’ they can’t hold a candle to the insularity of those who oppose them. To hear the latter carry on, you would think the present world is a paradise and all would know it were it not for ‘scare’ tactics of the Witnesses. 
 

So even without checking out any astronomy, just from the tablets alone, we would get exactly the same as "Ptolemy's Canon." We'd get the same length and order of all the kings' reigns.