Pudgy

I generally agree with your position. The difference between an old car and the Bible is that the condition of the car does not have such a big influence on our decisions, as does a religion that waves the Bible in front of the noses of believers.
Copying the actions and decisions of people from the past does not always end well. On the other hand, the repurposing of their experiences in order to be adapted to the ideology of today's Church Administration and the circumstances of life is also a dangerous precedent.
In general, we all know what is right and what is wrong. How to achieve that the wolf is fed and the donkey alive? For that, you don't need religious leaders who will tell a believer not to vote in state elections, but at the same time the WTJWorg Administration will participate in political conferences to promote religious activity and sue states that restrict WTJWorg "freedom".

That was the second century version of the elder book/OD book...already adding rules to the rules and mixing good scriptural counsel in with secular theory and Pharisaical traditions. Wheat and weeds growing together, leaven just starting to ferment the dough so it could spread together until the time of the end.
 
 
When Jesus comes, he'll remove the weeds.
 
@Space Merchant as regards those yucky videos (I didn't even want to watch them, the titles and picture was bad enough!😝) obviously Jesus would not want us to go and attempt to worship God with people dressed in drag taking the lead in worship. The Bible's counsel is clear about those who have a form of godly devotion but prove false to its power: "from these turn away." There is no need to make extra rules about secret judicial hearings. "From these turn away." Everybody can see that the person is in drag. There's no need for a committee meeting.🙂

@AudreyAnnaNana Unfortunately, the college student is correct. I spoke with you before regarding Excommunication, even pointed out factual and Biblical notions concerning the practice, which was given to the church. Although it is a practice, I argued that some people can abuse the power of church discipline. When church discipline is not used, it creates problems, even Satanic ones, and over the years I mentioned these threats, some of which both @Srecko Sostar and @Witness defended, even going as far as to water down Jesus' Kingship. Although Excommunication cut ties with the church, it does not cut ties with the family, which is often said here, and even recently, and Expelling, before Christianity and during the existence of it, as been something that existed. So it was not created by JWs, the practice predates them. The Bible describes the process of church discipline in several passages. The final step of church discipline is excommunication—a removal from the church. Matthew 18:15–17, seeing that it was already mentioned, Jesus teaches His disciples about excommunication. The Lord details a multi-step approach for responding to sinful offenses in the church community, as for its establishment, we can look to the references, such as Matthew 16 concerning binding and loosening the church.
 
@Equivocation Who said this? Restorationist Religious leaders do not and or don't ponder on the notion of being like God, equal to him, but yes, it would be a contradiction, a big one. If that was even a true statement, Jehovah's Witnesses would easily be put in the same category as New Aged Christians.
In one of my debates on here, I brought up marks of True Christians also, as is, of false Christians. Perhaps I should salvage this and make it a thread. In addition to that, The teaching of Christian values and studying the Bible, with oneself and or others, even family members, is core teachings, in fact, this is how I was brought up, learned a lot regarding God and Christ early on.
 
That being said, bottomline, Excommunication is Biblical, and it has it's origins rooted in the Bible, to state otherwise seems more out of emotion and opinion, so much so, to ignore some notions in the Bible, simply put, it is used to remove wrongdoers.
The below is just surface level examples of what happens when you do NOT remove wrongdoers from a church, mind you, some of these folks are noted as allies to a few disgruntled EXJWs...
 
NOTE: There is another where a pastor convinced women to de-robe themselves so he can bathe them, that would be a bit too graphic to even post here, concerning the fact, said video got people censored, but the iceberg goes deeper than that.
When those who teach bad as good, do not be surprise of what they do to a community, who, had already given themselves up to Babylon, and soon, will be your enemy in the near future.

I have a car. It's not perfect, but it gets me where I need to go. Even though it's got issues, I don't throw it out, because it's all I've got to go in, unless I want to walk everywhere.
 
Until we can read Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek and find the original manuscripts (which are no longer in existence) we're going to have to do the best we can with what we've got - imperfectly copied and translated manuscripts and translations. We do have Jehovah's holy spirit to help us apply the Bible counsel; His holy spirit which doesn't corrode or get lost. When we prayerfully follow the Bible direction to the best of our abilities in harmony with holy spirit, we will get through better than if we didn't have Bible principles. 
 
When Jesus gets here, he will tell us directly what to do. He's not here yet. The Bible is the temporary means to get through this mess of a world. It's the best book we've got to direct us. Some people want to throw it out, but I don't recommend it. I've tried three different ways: (1) No Bible direction (2) Bible direction mixed with poisoned publications (3) Bible direction. It's no contest - hands down in my experience following God's Word is the only way to fly.

Can the biblical text be completely trusted?
The first Bible was created by the Catholic Church.
Then the Protestants made their own Bible.
Afterwards, WTJWorg intervened and made their own Bible/s (few versions).
And to make everything more interesting, theological minds of different religions have created intricate interpretations and are harassing lost human souls with them day and night. Other souls who are not considered lost, but have found meaning for themselves in one of the interpretations will not fare any better than other people..., For time and chance happen to all.

If you don’t mind hanging some innocent people rough justice is very efficient way of keeping a town orderly.
AND consolidating and entrenching the authority and power of the Sheriff’s department.
It’s not the fact that people are being hung, it is that they’re being hung Not in accordance with the law, due process, common sense, and a deep sense of justice. 
Even Jesus said to the whore … “Go your way and sin no more”, which if memory serves, the Society removed those scriptures from the NWT.
It’s in all the other Bibles I checked.
John 8:1-11 IS MISSING!
 

@AudreyAnnaNana I mean, highlighted words is one thing to convey what you assume, but reading what the article(s) says for context is ANOTHER thing. For instance, even if you factor out faiths today, Jehovah God did have people, even a mediator that cares for the others in a spiritual sense, even provide if need be. Anyone of that level do not consider themselves as a God above or equal to Jehovah himself, likewise with the early Christians who provided for the Congregation, namely Paul, who would never ponder on something like that, so much so said the same thing concerning Jesus in comparison to God. Christians do however honor people taking the lead, as seen by early Christians and present day, but never do they religiously worship someone.
This is why it is important to read for context, read what is said and the verses used instead of adding what you assume. I can read an article about talking animals in the modern day, but the context of the article doesn't even suggest literal talking. And speaking on this, even my professors have stated that there are some people who only read titles or look for keywords to make an assumption on something without knowing what a story or an article is about.
Just be careful next time.

No … each person has different motivations, which sans telepathy, or you ask them … you will never know.
Besides … it’s impossible to “persecute” someone who has more power than you do.
A stereotypical example is the Polish Resistance did not persecute the Nazi invaders ….. the Nazi invaders DID persecute the Polish people.
To react to an oppressor is not persecution of the oppressor.
It’s self defense.

No … each person has different motivations, which sans telepathy, or you ask them … you will never know.
Besides … it’s impossible to “persecute” someone who has more power than you do.
A stereotypical example is the Polish Resistance did not persecute the Nazi invaders ….. the Nazi invaders DID persecute the Polish people.
To react to an oppressor is not persecution of the oppressor.
It’s self defense.

Well…. For every soldier that gets the U.S. Medal of Honor, there is probably another thousand that also deserve one.
A lot gets missed.

It’s been my observation that Audrey has been completely forthright with everybody, every time, however those with extreme agenda driven reading comprehension problems, who don’t actually completely read what she has written of course will not  think so.
…. that is what agenda driven thinking is.
What you are doing Manny, is persecuting a woman, because you can.

I believe, Manny, you would pick the nits off a blanket until you froze to death in a pile of nits.

It’s been my observation that Audrey has been completely forthright with everybody, every time, however those with extreme agenda driven reading comprehension problems, who don’t actually completely read what she has written of course will not  think so.
…. that is what agenda driven thinking is.
What you are doing Manny, is persecuting a woman, because you can.

I believe, Manny, you would pick the nits off a blanket until you froze to death in a pile of nits.

Man, if that's persecution then I've got it easy, lol!😂
 
(I've been through some forms of persecution...I wouldn't call this persecution - it's playtime, kind of like that Whac-A-Mole game at the fair!)
 
 
 
 

It’s been my observation that Audrey has been completely forthright with everybody, every time, however those with extreme agenda driven reading comprehension problems, who don’t actually completely read what she has written of course will not  think so.
…. that is what agenda driven thinking is.
What you are doing Manny, is persecuting a woman, because you can.

I can see you haven't done much research into the financial holdings of the organization.

Jesus said the leaven would ferment the whole lump, and that the wheat and the weeds would grow together. While there are some very good and useful parts of the videos, there are also some weeds and leaven that are spread along with them. My family has benefited very much from the jw.org videos, but we have also been hurt by them.
 
Now that our eyes are opened to the fact that not everything in those videos programs are true, it's easier to disregard the false teachings in them and recognize the parts that are Biblically based.
 
(But it makes me sick watching people gulp them down whole as if everything in them was "the gospel truth"! I used to do the same thing, so I understand why it happens. I'll be glad when Jesus comes and removes all the weeds/leaven.)

Now I understand why WTJWorg has an increasingly confusing theology.., and it's only going to get worse if they all of them in heaven keep arguing over interpretations and who is smarter and greater among them.

Romans 16:1-15
 
"I am introducing to you Phoeʹbe, our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in Cenʹchre·ae,  so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the holy ones and give her whatever help she may need, for she herself also proved to be a defender of many, including me. Give my greetings to Prisʹca and Aqʹui·la, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus,  who have risked their own necks for me and to whom not only I but also all the congregations of the nations give thanks.  Also greet the congregation that is in their house. Greet my beloved E·paeʹne·tus, who is a firstfruits of Asia for Christ.  Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you.  Greet An·dronʹi·cus and Juʹni·as, my relatives and fellow prisoners, who are men well-known to the apostles and who have been in union with Christ longer than I have. Give my greetings to Am·pli·aʹtus, my beloved in the Lord. Greet Ur·baʹnus, our fellow worker in Christ, and my beloved Staʹchys.  Greet A·pelʹles, the approved one in Christ. Greet those from the household of A·ris·tobʹu·lus.  Greet He·roʹdi·on, my relative. Greet those from the household of Nar·cisʹsus who are in the Lord.  Greet Try·phaeʹna and Try·phoʹsa, women who are working hard in the Lord. Greet Perʹsis, our beloved one, for she has worked hard in the Lord.  Greet Ruʹfus, the chosen one in the Lord, and his mother and mine.  Greet A·synʹcri·tus, Phleʹgon, Herʹmes, Patʹro·bas, Herʹmas, and the brothers with them.  Greet Phi·lolʹo·gus and Julia, Neʹreus and his sister, and O·lymʹpas, and all the holy ones with them."
 
Colossians 4:14-17
 
"Luke, the beloved physician, sends you his greetings, and so does Deʹmas.  Give my greetings to the brothers in La·o·di·ceʹa and to Nymʹpha and to the congregation at her house.  And when this letter has been read among you, arrange for it also to be read in the congregation of the La·o·di·ceʹans and for you also to read the one from La·o·di·ceʹa.  Also, tell Ar·chipʹpus: “Pay attention to the ministry that you accepted in the Lord, in order to fulfill it.”
 
2 Timothy 4:19-21
 
"Give my greetings to Prisʹca and Aqʹui·la and the household of On·e·siphʹo·rus. E·rasʹtus stayed in Corinth, but I left Trophʹi·mus sick at Mi·leʹtus.  Do your utmost to arrive before winter. Eu·buʹlus sends you his greetings, and so do Puʹdens and Liʹnus and Clauʹdi·a and all the brothers."

That’s why I never wanted to be an Elder or anything.
If you screw up as GB, as an example, with being a “Guardian of The Doctrine”, you can destroy tens of thousands of lives if you get it wrong ….. in one 18 paragraph Watchtower article.
Of all the times that being wrong has resulted in “New Light”, never once have the writers apologized for ruining peoples lives with “Old Light”.
Please correct me if you can prove I am wrong.

That’s why I never wanted to be an Elder or anything.
If you screw up as GB, as an example, with being a “Guardian of The Doctrine”, you can destroy tens of thousands of lives if you get it wrong ….. in one 18 paragraph Watchtower article.
Of all the times that being wrong has resulted in “New Light”, never once have the writers apologized for ruining peoples lives with “Old Light”.
Please correct me if you can prove I am wrong.

Ah, I have never feel angered if others have something I do not have.  The GB and wives often give up their right to have children and grand children, they give up careers, they give up many things to serve.  They often serve for years in broken down third world countries under very difficult circumstances before being invited back to Bethel...... to serve there......when they are older or needed....  So I detect envy.
Romans: 2 "if you judge; for when you judge another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge practice the same things."  however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and anger.j
You just look at the things you do not have.  The master is master over his workers. He is one who gives good things to his servants when they have proven faithful.
I am not saying that one of these cannot develop a bad heart.  Recently a GB member was removed.  He is still an elder - so we cannot speculate was is the reason.....it could even be ill health...   but we can be sure that Jehovah's spirit is everywhere and the cleaning of Jehovah's house is near!....... and this includes all of us! 

That’s why it takes over 20 man-years of public witnessing to get  ONE  new Jehovah’s Witness, who will stay his or her entire lifetime.
 
 

Here is confirmation from the scripture in Hebrews 13:17 showing why the GB should not be worshipped...
 
"Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they are on the alert night and day in behalf of your souls, expecting to have to account for them; in order that they may do that with gladness, not with groans, for this would not pay you."
 
(Hebrews 13:17, Byington)
 
"Be yielding unto them who are guiding you and submit yourselves; For they are watching over your souls as having an account to render, That with joy the same they may be doing and not with sighing,—For unprofitable unto you were this."
 
(Hebrews 13:17, Rotherham)
 
"Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you."
 
(Hebrews 13:17, NWT)
 
"Be responsive to your pastoral leaders. Listen to their counsel. They are alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God. Contribute to the joy of their leadership, not its drudgery. Why would you want to make things harder for them?"
 
(Hebrews 13:17, The Message Bible)
 
There is a difference between a "leader" in the Christian congregation and a "stranger" in the Christian congregation.
 
The above verses qualify what a "leader" looks like: 
 
(1) "Alert night and day in behalf of your souls"
(2) "Guiding you"
(3) "Taking the lead among you"
(4) "Pastoral leaders" who give "counsel" and are "alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God."
 
Can a group of men who live far far away from the local congregation truly be alert night and day in behalf of our souls? Is it possible for a shepherd to keep watch over the local flock if he is living in another state or another country? It is not possible. A true "leader" according to this verse is one who personally knows the sheep and who personally stays awake to guard the soul of that sheep and who is among the sheep on a regular basis. The men at Bethel are not "leaders" they are "strangers". Just because their face is on the video screen doesn't mean they know us. They are strangers to us.
 
"...the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep.  The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.  When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice.  They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
 
(John 10:2-5)
 
If a man doesn't know each sheep by name, then he is not the leader of that sheep, he is a stranger. Jesus said to Not Listen to Strangers.
 
Do the members of the governing body know you by name? Do the people at the branch? In the service department? Not just a name on a piece of paper or a computer screen, but by name as in they know you, they keep awake to guard your soul and consider you part of their assignment, interacting with you personally on a regular basis? Not likely. It is not possible for an imperfect man who is living that far away from a congregation to take care of the sheep in that way. It's the local brothers if they shepherd properly, not the GB, who are to be obeyed in the sense of this verse.
 
The local brothers who know the flock should have the flexibility to use their Bible trained consciences and good judgment to help the local sheep. The local shepherds should not be hamstrung by having to adhere to made up stuff coming down from headquarters people who have no clue what is going on locally. 
 
Can a man run his family from overseas? Will his family function well that way? Those men in Bethel have no business making themselves out to be "leaders" from so far away. That's not the way Jesus set things up.
 
The GB/Bethel has become the clergy class of the organization. They are paid. (How much does your room and board and insurance and medical care cost you? How much does it cost them?) They dictate manmade doctrines and enforce them with a ban against anyone who doesn't bow down. That is not what is supposed to happen according to Hebrews 13:17.
 
Sheep will obey a real shepherd. The real shepherds get punished by the GB when they follow the example of the Christ and use thinking ability rather than flowcharts/elder manual. Jesus is coming to remedy the situation soon. Thank God.