Pudgy

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation.
You are so clueless it’s embarrassing to read your posts!
It is NOT considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to execute people for crimes. It is considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to deny communications and citizenship to anyone, no matter how heinous they break the rules.  
Humans need the connections to other humans, same as food, water and air. Take Vitamin C out of a human’s diet and he WILL DIE , slowly and very painfully, his body disintegrating and falling apart. 
The same with disfellowshipping for matters that are not true, clear and present, REAL, emergencies.
That’s why Jesus gave instructions in Matthew 18 EXACTLY how to do it.
Do JWs do it that way?
… not even close.
The problem is … historically, organized religions and their minions LOVE a witch hunt.

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation.
You are so clueless it’s embarrassing to read your posts!
It is NOT considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to execute people for crimes. It is considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to deny communications and citizenship to anyone, no matter how heinous they break the rules.  
Humans need the connections to other humans, same as food, water and air. Take Vitamin C out of a human’s diet and he WILL DIE , slowly and very painfully, his body disintegrating and falling apart. 
The same with disfellowshipping for matters that are not true, clear and present, REAL, emergencies.
That’s why Jesus gave instructions in Matthew 18 EXACTLY how to do it.
Do JWs do it that way?
… not even close.
The problem is … historically, organized religions and their minions LOVE a witch hunt.

I think it was around 2018 when I read a news report about a meeting of ex-JWs and non-JW relatives of Witnesses. They met somewhere around Seattle. Several of the attendees supposedly gave reports of suicides among disfellowshipped and shunned teenagers. (And I think there were cases of suicides among those who had suffered sexual abuse either in the congregation or from Witness parents.)
I'm sure you are right that it was more than just the shunning that drove them to suicide, but they definitely were presenting a pattern that indicated shunning as a key factor. It was likely exaggerated somewhat, but the report indicated that shunning and suicide became kind of a theme, and there were about a dozen such cases mentioned. It's probably a serious enough problem that the WTS is right now trying to address this issue by making changes to the process of disfellowshipping teenagers.

I've known young people who committed suicide after being shunned/disfellowshipped. I was one of those who tried to kill himself after being disassociated several years ago. I've talked with dozens of young disfellowshipped ones. In the past 30 years I've talked with parents of children who committed suicide due to being disfellowshipped. I wanted to share this....
How are they going to address the parents of young people that committed suicide after being disfellowshipped or marked? IMO the parent should sue the governing body for emotional manipulation and emotional distress for forcing them to cut off their own children, even grown children. That includes children who died from their parents refusing blood transfusions, knowing they could be disfellowshipped or shunned or marked for doing so. Or the thousands of x'jws who fell into chemical addictions, dying due to chemical addictions!!!! To deal with the loss of their entire social structure!!!!!!!? And the worse...the tens of thousands of disfellowshipped/disassociated/marked ones who left God all together, like I once did?   Being allowed to grow a beard, or women being allowed to wear pants during services, so fucking what!!!! That's nice, I've never come across someone killing themselves because they couldn't grow a beard or wear pants. The Governing Body needs to shell out a major apology for their previous stance on disfellowshipping, and I mean a huge fucking apology!!!! The blood of others is not soley on the governing bodies hands, but on the hands of the rank and file who did everything the governing body told them to do. Which was to totally isolate those young people from their social network, even their parents.   Sorry jw's, PIMI, it's too late for these changes, you are already blood guilty, you deserve to go to hell, with your governing body.

OHHHHHhhhhh
NOooooOoo, 
a downvote from Alphonse … what EVER SHALL I DO? 
Just thinking about it gives me the VAPORS!
( flutters eyelashes rapidly ….)

…
…. It just occurred to me!
The subliminal hidden message with the Norwegian red white and blue “flag tie” is NOT FOR JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES!
… IT’S FOR THE NORWEGIAN COURT SYSTEM OFFICIALS!

It just makes life easier when people don’t go kicking against the goads over every silly little thing. Save your kicking for when it is important. 
Nathaniel Hawthorne put it this way in The Scarlet Letter: “It is remarkable that persons who speculate the most boldly often conform with the most perfect quietude to the external regulations of society.”
Nobody speculates more boldly than Jehovah’s Witnesses, who, in the main, are able to “conform with the most perfect quietude to the external regulations of society.”
This can result in dumb situations in which people resist innocuous trends in the greater world because nobody wants to be the first to upset the status quo. In such cases, people quite reasonably look to examples from those taking the lead, It is sort of sheeplike behavior, but then—what does the Bible say about sheep? 
We’re clearing out a lot of nonsense now that you might have hoped would have been cleared out long ago. Times change. If you can change with them without sacrificing any core principles, that’s the thing to do. It makes life easier. You find yourself not taking a hard stand over things that don’t matter. 
I don’t think the GB particularly like saying, ‘Okay, now you can do this or that.’ But apparently they have come to feel sheeplike people need that from time to time. In 2017, they said beards are fine where local norms don’t get in the way. I think they were surprised that no one took them up on it, necessitating a GB update complete with bells, whistles, video history, and chariot:
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2023/12/beards-get-the-green-light.html
 

…
…. It just occurred to me!
The subliminal hidden message with the Norwegian red white and blue “flag tie” is NOT FOR JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES!
… IT’S FOR THE NORWEGIAN COURT SYSTEM OFFICIALS!

…
…. It just occurred to me!
The subliminal hidden message with the Norwegian red white and blue “flag tie” is NOT FOR JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES!
… IT’S FOR THE NORWEGIAN COURT SYSTEM OFFICIALS!

How does that work, since nothing secular has attachments to anything we can verify w/o astronomical triangulation?

JWs, Show Your Fashion Attitude!
lol

When beards were permitted it was explained that was because the view of those in the world had changed.
So what view has changed in the world so that JWs women can wear slacks? 
 
 

I try to see both sides of the issue, and both sides and perspectives, so occasionally I think about how the Elders who over 60 years persecuted the brotherhood about the never-ending issue of beards … I myself being called into “the little back room” / “the red room” (some walking out embarresed to tears, with red eyes) / “room 101 (where Winston Smith was tortured with a cage of rats attached to his face) at least five times that I remember, from Virginia to California,Texas, North Carolina, sometimes several times ….. and how these God fearing men of good conscience must NOW feel for having been agents of unwarranted and continuous tyranny that has divided the Congregations, and literally soured the Truth in tens of thousands of Brothers (and their women, girlfriends and wives … destroying, and I do mean DESTROYING the credibility of the Governing Body, and any valuable principles of righteousness they may have tried to impart.
Whew! THAT was a very long sentence…
When I was a young man, I would on Fridays after work to a bar with fellow employees and the Client, ( who expected us to pick up the tab on our overhead account) and we all got thoroughly plastered. No matter how drunk I got I never forgot … in fact I focused on … that I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and it was a great protection , always. After everyone else went home I sat there hyperventilating to burn off alcohol, then took a cab home.
But, I am rambling …..
In over 55 years, because of MANY COMMON SENSE issues like “beards” I can truly say as I worked all over the United States and three foreign countries, the Elders were never an encouragement to me, except in Pittsburgh PA, and Lima Peru.
It will take another 50 years I am afraid, and  soon for me it won’t matter anymore.
But I worry about the young Elders that grew up watching this all , and were either willing or unwilling participants in this and suchlike tyrannies, including “shunning” as it has been practiced since the 1960’s.
I suppose I also worry about the possibility that they are oblivious.

I think Anna was exactly correct about this !!                                    Norway Flag

 
Remember the hidden message in the propaganda photograph of captured sailors from the U.S.S. Pueblo that slipped past the North Korean military?
Same idea……
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/north-korean-officials-had-no-idea-what-their-hostages-were-signaling-in-this-photo
 

I try to see both sides of the issue, and both sides and perspectives, so occasionally I think about how the Elders who over 60 years persecuted the brotherhood about the never-ending issue of beards … I myself being called into “the little back room” / “the red room” (some walking out embarresed to tears, with red eyes) / “room 101 (where Winston Smith was tortured with a cage of rats attached to his face) at least five times that I remember, from Virginia to California,Texas, North Carolina, sometimes several times ….. and how these God fearing men of good conscience must NOW feel for having been agents of unwarranted and continuous tyranny that has divided the Congregations, and literally soured the Truth in tens of thousands of Brothers (and their women, girlfriends and wives … destroying, and I do mean DESTROYING the credibility of the Governing Body, and any valuable principles of righteousness they may have tried to impart.
Whew! THAT was a very long sentence…
When I was a young man, I would on Fridays after work to a bar with fellow employees and the Client, ( who expected us to pick up the tab on our overhead account) and we all got thoroughly plastered. No matter how drunk I got I never forgot … in fact I focused on … that I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and it was a great protection , always. After everyone else went home I sat there hyperventilating to burn off alcohol, then took a cab home.
But, I am rambling …..
In over 55 years, because of MANY COMMON SENSE issues like “beards” I can truly say as I worked all over the United States and three foreign countries, the Elders were never an encouragement to me, except in Pittsburgh PA, and Lima Peru.
It will take another 50 years I am afraid, and  soon for me it won’t matter anymore.
But I worry about the young Elders that grew up watching this all , and were either willing or unwilling participants in this and suchlike tyrannies, including “shunning” as it has been practiced since the 1960’s.
I suppose I also worry about the possibility that they are oblivious.

I try to see both sides of the issue, and both sides and perspectives, so occasionally I think about how the Elders who over 60 years persecuted the brotherhood about the never-ending issue of beards … I myself being called into “the little back room” / “the red room” (some walking out embarresed to tears, with red eyes) / “room 101 (where Winston Smith was tortured with a cage of rats attached to his face) at least five times that I remember, from Virginia to California,Texas, North Carolina, sometimes several times ….. and how these God fearing men of good conscience must NOW feel for having been agents of unwarranted and continuous tyranny that has divided the Congregations, and literally soured the Truth in tens of thousands of Brothers (and their women, girlfriends and wives … destroying, and I do mean DESTROYING the credibility of the Governing Body, and any valuable principles of righteousness they may have tried to impart.
Whew! THAT was a very long sentence…
When I was a young man, I would on Fridays after work to a bar with fellow employees and the Client, ( who expected us to pick up the tab on our overhead account) and we all got thoroughly plastered. No matter how drunk I got I never forgot … in fact I focused on … that I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and it was a great protection , always. After everyone else went home I sat there hyperventilating to burn off alcohol, then took a cab home.
But, I am rambling …..
In over 55 years, because of MANY COMMON SENSE issues like “beards” I can truly say as I worked all over the United States and three foreign countries, the Elders were never an encouragement to me, except in Pittsburgh PA, and Lima Peru.
It will take another 50 years I am afraid, and  soon for me it won’t matter anymore.
But I worry about the young Elders that grew up watching this all , and were either willing or unwilling participants in this and suchlike tyrannies, including “shunning” as it has been practiced since the 1960’s.
I suppose I also worry about the possibility that they are oblivious.

The expression, "the scene of this world is changing", is certainly the reality of WTJWorg, which is changing the scene of its own dogmatic construction by which it oppresses its own followers. 
"You must not greet an excluded person who comes to KH", was the previous order. As of today, that changes and the instruction instructs JWs to give a welcome, but not "too much of a welcome." lol

Doesn’t matter. I’m growing one like Rip Van Winkle as we speak. Long enough to sweep the kitchen floor with.

Or maybe they all still hate beards, but one of them had to sacrifice his personal preferences to show that the GB will lead by example. Perhaps he drew the "short straw" as they say here. 
Maybe next time, another one will go without the tie: 

He didn’t shave it at the border is the point.

In this topic, I'd like to see how much we can learn about Bible timeline as it relates to Jewish history and what we know about Egypt, Assyria, and Babylon. But let's see how far we can get using only references from the Bible and from archaeology. And only from NON-ASTRONOMY-RELATED archaeology. Therefore, there will be no BCE dates argued or discussed. We already have other topics for that.
Also, I'll try to keep myself more organized, and keep the topic more organized. To that end, here are the proposed guidelines:
Unrelated comments get moved to a subtopic (to be created and linked). Comments are to be strictly on the topic of Bible-related timelines. That means the Bible's format-- NO BCE dates. The following questions contain the type of "research" we'll look at, and they use the Biblical format for timelines -- not BCE dates, which cannot be derived from the Bible or even from secular archaeology, except when they include astronomy.   "Where does the 10th year of Zedekiah fit on the timeline?" Does that 10th year of Zedekiah match up to the 18th year of Nebuchadnezzar? "How do we include the 37th year of Jehoiachin's exile?" Does the Bible show us how many years that Nebuchadnezzar reigned? What's the last year of Nebuchadnezzar that gets mentioned in the Bible? The 23rd, a later year? The Bible mentions the 18th year of Josiah, could he have had a 19th or 20th year that wasn't mentioned? No ad hominem comments. Related to that, people can upvote their own comments all they want, even with their own sock puppets, but a downvote without an explanation is pretty much just another empty ad hominem. Downvotes are only allowed if one addresses whatever he or she is downvoting.   When Bible timelines are mentioned, please quote the necessary parts of the verse or passage so people don't have to look it up. We are not discussing the accuracy, motivations or prejudices or levels of interpretation for Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian or Persian archaeology/inscriptions. Similarly this won't be a topic about Biblical interpretations either. No discussions about the best way to interpret the "70 years," or definitions of "the exile," exiles, desolation(s), etc..   

I don't see a Mitsubishi any where on that list.

You know, Georgie, your plethora of “rhetorical“  questions give the impression you don’t know that people are not ants … You ask ten people the same questions, and your questions, often based on your agenda or false information and/or assumptions, will generate 10 honest answers …all different.
For a change, stop asking your thousands of loaded  questions and start making flat statements of what YOU think is correct. 
You might as well, because in the thousands you have asked… I have not yet noticed a single response.
It’s like singing to pigs … you just ruin your voice, AND IRRITATE THE PIGS.
That’s why you get bounced from this forum so often, no matter what new name pops up out of the whack-a-mole hole.
No one answers your endless, never ending questions, transparently due to your desire to be known as the Vicar of Warwick, recognizing your attempts at self aggrandizement by attempting to denigrate others.
I will give you a much needed hint:
It’s not working. It has never worked. It will only fool some of the people, some of the time.…
.…. mostly your self-created upvoting and downvoting and fawning self created clones.