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Dmitar

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  1. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Matthew9969 in Luke 23:43 and its meaning...   
    Date: January 19, 2015Author: Craig Truglia0 Comments In this episode of “Offending the Jehovah’s Witnesses,” our response to DefendingJehovahsWitnesses.Blogspot.com, we are going to cover their “translation” of Luke 23:43.
    DefendingJehovahsWitnesses.Blogspot.com is a front of JW.org, the official website of the Watchtower Society. Instead of being honest and admitting that the Governing Body is purposely trying to respond to criticisms of their organization, the website is hosted by “Elijah Daniels” who otherwise cannot be found on Google or contacted. Their website does not allow comments, so we respond here as a means to make people aware of the lies taught by the Governing Body of the organization.
    For those unaware of the NWT translation of the verse and the immediate context of the article here it is:
    Addressing this issue, the late Dr. Julius Mantey, noted NT Greek scholar and strong trinitarian, allegedly wrote a powerful attack against the honesty and accuracy of the NWT. He complained of the NWT’s “attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after `today’ in Luke 23:43,” when he knows better than anyone that none of the earliest manuscripts (up to the 9th century A.D.) originally had capitalization or punctuation! Later copyists have added punctuation wherever they felt it should be!
    Just because a modern text writer decides where he wants the punctuation and capital-ization to be in his interpretation of the original text (as Westcott and Hort did for the text that is used by the NWT and Nestle did in the text used by the NASB, etc.) does not mean that is how the original Bible writer intended the meaning – as explained in the Kingdom Interlinear footnote for this verse…Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”
    As we can see “Elijah Daniels” mischaracterizes Dr. Mantey’s argument as disingenuously implying Greek originally had punctuation. However, Mantey says nothing of the sort. Rather, he is saying that anyone who understands Greek would have not understood the passage as Christ emphasizing the word “today” the way it is portrayed in the NWT.
    For example, the NWT renders Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”
    Every single other respectable translation says something along the lines of “And He [Jesus] said to him, ‘Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.'”
    Why do most people take the latter interpretation?
    First, it reads better from the literal rendering of the Greek:
    καὶ [And] εἶπεν [he said] αὐτῷ [to him] Ἀμήν [Truly] σοι [to you] λέγω [I say] σήμερον [today] μετ [with] ἐμοῦ [me] ἔσῃ [you will be] ἐν [in] τῷ [the] Παραδείσῳ [Paradise]
    As we can see, the Greek says without reversing word order, “Truly to you I say today with me you will be in Paradise.”
    Second, this rendering not only makes the most sense to the modern translators (and literal rendering of the Greek), it also makes the most sense to ancient translators as well.
    Saint Jerome, an expert of Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin understood the Greek as follows:
    I feel confident that my words are true: conversion can never be too late. The words to the dying robber are a pledge of this: Verily I say unto you, today shall you be with me in paradise (Jerome, To Paula, Letter 39:1).
    As we can see, Jerome understands what Christ said to the thief on the cross to mean that Christ affirmed the thief’s salvation. The NWT rendering, that Jesus merely uses the word “today” as a figure of speech, would have made no sense to Jerome.
    Third, to a speaker conversant in Koine Greek from the fourth century AD, the NWT rending also did not occur to him:
    In which humanity He was crucified and died for us, and rose from the dead, and was taken up into the heavens, having been created as the beginning of ways for us (Proverbs 8:22), when on earth He showed us light from out of darkness, salvation from error, life from the dead, an entrance to paradise, from which Adam was cast out, and into which he again entered by means of the thief, as the Lord said, ‘This day shall you be with Me in paradise’ (Luke 23:43), into which Paul also once entered (Athanasius, Statement of Faith, Chapter 1).
    As we can see, Saint Athanasius (an enemy to JWs and a defender of the doctrine of the Trinity) understood the verse to mean that the thief had already “entered” Paradise.
    How does “Elijah Daniels” expect to be taken seriously when 1. All the modern Greek experts disagree with the NWT, 2. Ancient translators disagreed with the NWT, and 3. Someone who spoke Koine Greek understood the verse as the latter two parties did?
    I guess that’s why the Watchtower will disfellowship you for merely using your mind. Thinking is a dangerous thing when someone wants you to accept false teaching
  2. Upvote
    Dmitar reacted to Arauna in Russia declares groups linked to Church of Scientology as ‘undesirable’   
    The Russian orthodox church is the state religion and they are building back communism better with building the "national family" ....... nationalism. Religion is the vehicle to build a strong family and family values.  (Hitler also built the family through nationalism). The philosopher in Russia whom all are following is Alexander Dugan. A staunch proponent of the Russian orthodox.church.  Any foreign religious entity will now have a target on it's back.
    Russia is the King of North - with its allies. While China is threatening peace in the far east with the  possibility of invading Taiwan...... and strutting its strength all over the area, Russia is showing its muscles in the Balkans and Black Sea area.  Instead of "peace" it has taken a little "piece " of land here and there..... just like Germany did some 80 years back. 
    Regarding NATO, Russia is issuing regular warnings..... I suspect that problems could erupt in the Balkans because Russia is supporting the aggressive stance of Russian orthodox countries. 
    Humans do not learn from history....... most don't learn from biblical history either. ...
  3. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in Russia declares groups linked to Church of Scientology as ‘undesirable’   
    Interesting data on the number of members. Scientology originated later, much later than WTJWorg. And it has the same number of members.., even though they don’t preach the JW way.
     
  4. Sad
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Russia declares groups linked to Church of Scientology as ‘undesirable’   
    https://www.theoaklandpress.com/2021/10/25/russia-declares-groups-linked-to-church-of-scientology-as-undesirable/
    Russia has designated two California-based organizations linked to the Church of Scientology as “undesirable,” a move that could formally ban the group.
    The Prosecutor General’s Office in September said the World Institute of Scientology Enterprises International and the Church of Spiritual Technology “pose a threat to the security of the Russian Federation.”
    The issue will now be taken up by the Ministry of Justice, which, according to Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, could outlaw the groups under laws governing “undesirable” foreign nongovernmental organizations.
    Russian authorities in recent years have gone after the Church of Scientology, ordering the closure of the group’s Moscow branch, according to news reports. The Justice Ministry has also declared some of the group’s literature extremist, Reuters reported.
    The government has barred more than 30 groups under a 2015 law that made membership in “undesirable” organizations a criminal offense, the Associated Press reported. In 2017, Russia ruled the religious group Jehovah’s Witnesses as “extremist” and has since sentenced 14 adherents to six or more years of prison.
     
    Scientology was established in 1952 by L. Ron Hubbard, a science fiction author, and the Church of Scientology has been acknowledged as a religion in the United States since 1993. Scientology is known for its celebrity followers, such as actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
    The church has claimed it has 8 million members worldwide, with about a third of those in the U.S., but many critics have suggested there are between 25,000 and 55,000 active Scientologists.
     
  5. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Witness in JWS WILL TEACH PROPHETS?   
    🧡
     
    For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent,
        for Jerusalem’s sake I will not remain quiet,
    till her vindication shines out like the dawn,
        her salvation like a blazing torch.
    2 The nations will see your vindication,
        and all kings your glory;
    you will be called by a new name
        that the mouth of the Lord will bestow.
    3 You will be a crown of splendor in the Lord’s hand,
        a royal diadem in the hand of your God.
    4 No longer will they call you Deserted,
        or name your land Desolate.
    But you will be called Hephzibah,
        and your land Beulah;
    for the Lord will take delight in you,
        and your land will be married.
    5 As a young man marries a young woman,
        so will your Builder marry you;
    as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride,
        so will your God rejoice over you.
    6 I have posted watchmen on your walls, Jerusalem;
        they will never be silent day or night.
    You who call on the Lord,
        give yourselves no rest,
    7 and give him no rest till he establishes Jerusalem
        and makes her the praise of the earth.
    8 The Lord has sworn by his right hand
        and by his mighty arm:
    “Never again will I give your grain
        as food for your enemies,
    and never again will foreigners drink the new wine
        for which you have toiled;
    9 but those who harvest it will eat it
        and praise the Lord,
    and those who gather the grapes will drink it
        in the courts of my sanctuary.”
    10 Pass through, pass through the gates!
        Prepare the way for the people.
    Build up, build up the highway!
        Remove the stones.
    Raise a banner for the nations.
    11 The Lord has made proclamation
        to the ends of the earth:
    “Say to Daughter Zion,
        ‘See, your Savior comes!
    See, his reward is with him,
        and his recompense accompanies him.’”
    12 They will be called the Holy People,
        the Redeemed of the Lord;
    and you will be called Sought After,
        the City No Longer Deserted.  Isa 62
  6. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Kick_Faceinator in JWS WILL TEACH PROPHETS?   
    “For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the LORD Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth.” Mal 2:7
    This elder depicted teaching what appears to be the lie of 1914 obviously isn’t a priest, he’s just a gentile, but he doesn’t care nor does that stop him from defiling the temple (1 Cor 3:17). He abolishes the daily sacrifice of praise from the priesthood with ease, without even batting an eye (Dan 11:31), while being a full fledged man of lawlessness he exalts himself above even the prophets (2 thess 2:4). Does any of this brother him? Not in the least.
    In ancient Israel’s day he’d be put to death for doing this:
    “but an unauthorized person who comes near the sanctuary will be put to death.” Num 18:7b
    But hey, look at the bright side, everything is going according to Gods plan…
    It’s been decreed:
    “I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’” Isa 46:10
    Hold onto your crown, it isn’t too much longer. Rev 3:11
     
  7. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Witness in JWS WILL TEACH PROPHETS?   
    JW leaders have successfully mocked God and Jesus Christ, by claiming that uninspired JW elders (which represents the person teaching in this picture) and JWs in general, will fill in Noah, Samuel, David and Daniel about Jesus Christ, when the Kingdom arrives.  These men were all prophets who foretold the coming Christ.  God put the words in their mouths.  (Jer 1:9; Isa 51:16; 59:21)  Will He stop inspiring them with knowledge in the Kingdom?   The spiritual Temple of God's dwelling in spirit  is built on the apostles and the prophets, with Jesus as the chief cornerstone.  They do not need anyone to "reveal" to them, what happens in Armageddon.  All of their truthful words come together, and are proclaimed against "Israel" in the last days. (Eph 2:20-22; Rev 10:7;22:6) 
    We can see why.  The picture is a deceptive lie.  
     On its most debased level, we have a man in dress clothes and tie, with a printed chart lecturing prophets, who sit on wooden stools.  The uninspired man/elder is exalted, while the prophets are demeaned.  And you accept this, JWs?  
    This is a mockery, blasphemy and stupidity.
    I'm sure your leaders or "helpers" are checking in here.  To them, I give these scriptures:
    "Offer to God a thank offering
    and pay your vows to the Most High.
    NOT PAYING VOWS TO AN ORGANIZATION

    15 And call me in the day of trouble;
    I will deliver you, and you will glorify me.”
    16 But to the wicked God says,
    “What right have you to recite my statutes
    and mention my covenant with your mouth,
    17 while you yourself hate discipline,
    and cast my words behind you?
    18 When you see a thief, then you are pleased with him,
    and your association is with adulterers.
    19 You give your mouth free rein for evil,
    and you harness your tongue to deceit.
    20 You sit and speak against your brother;
    you slander your mother’s son.
    21 These things you have done, and I have been silent;
    You imagined that I was just like you.
    I will rebuke you and present an argument before your eyes.
    22 Now consider this, you who forget God,
    lest I tear you apart, and there will be none to deliver.
    23 He who sacrifices a thank offering honors me,
    and he who orders his way;
    I will show him the salvation of God.” Ps 50:14-23
     

     
  8. Upvote
    Dmitar reacted to Space Merchant in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    Again - if the root has never changed, it does not matter, therefore, no violation. They all originated with that one Strong's which was mentioned to you.
    @NoisySrecko Agreed, but the 1925 thing some people simply read a few words, but do not read into what was actually said, thus end up coming up with their own narrative.
  9. Upvote
    Dmitar got a reaction from Space Merchant in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    What would be so astonishing about Brother Rutherford’s book? It cannot be because of the title. The only difference with the title is that brother Rutherford added a term already in use with “will never die”. What was the meaning behind “millions now living” that was obtained before brother Rutherford added a thought that emphasized what earlier preachers were already speaking about. He maintained, scriptural integrity.
     
    Brother Rutherford used the term “end of the world” in his book as a scriptural lesson to confirm the words of Christ, 17 times. Yet, in those, he does not imply the end of the world would have been in 1914 or 1925. He refers to the second coming of Christ, just like any other Christian Religion was speaking of at that time.
     
    His words for 1914 were,
    1920-Millions now living will never die!
    This is not due to the fact that the earth is less productive, nor is it due to the fact of man's inability to plant and produce more; hut it is due to the unsettled condition’s resulting from the world war, which conditions Jesus clearly foretold would accompany the war; and it is another evidence that 1914 marked the beginning of the end of the world; for Jesus plainly said, "These are the beginning of sorrows".
     
    1855-Bibliotheca_Sacra_and_Theological_Review page 496
    Millenarianism.
     They have taken their position, and they must maintain it. They have predicted that" the end of the world is at hand,” and they must prove it. Where the signs of the times cannot be enlisted, as witnesses, they have recourse to exaggeration and bold and startling assertions. In this new Pandora's box which they have opened, no hope for the doomed millions now living lingers at the bottom.
     The elect are already gathered in; the last seal has been broken ; the last trumpet has sounded , and the last vial has been poured out, and the accumulated woes portended by these symbols are now rolling, like billows , over the earth. The end must come, do what we may ; it cannot be delayed . The chariot wheels of the " King of kings " are now moving on the highway to fearful judgments. The wrath of God will burn to the lowest hell. The Gospel has been preached “ as a witness ” and failed to convince the world of sin ; now, it must prove a savor of death unto death to all that live ; still , the ministers of Christ must preach though they know that their labor in the Lord will be in vain , and that their efforts to enlighten their flocks will only enhance their condemnation and misery throughout eternity.
     
    1864-The Universalist Quarterly and General Review, page 53
     What becomes of the hundreds of millions who lived before the advent of the Redeemer; of the hundreds of millions now living who devoutly worship false Gods There is but one answer. They must enter the garden of the Lord's house after the death of the body, or they can never enter at all . But are these multitudes responsible for the circumstance that their birth dates anterior to that period when it pleased God to send mankind a Redeemer? are they to be condemned to endless death on the ground that they never knew that Jesus was indeed the Christ, the Son of the living God ? ”
     
    1873-The Old Book tested popular queries about the Bible page 160
    have we evidence in the experience and in the lives of men, that the work which Christ said he would accomplish has been effected?
    As to the experience of salvation from the condemnation and guilt of sin, we have the testimony of millions in the past, and of millions now living, that, believing in Jesus, they have been freely and fully for given . Down through all the ages their testimony has been clear and uniform. Men living in different countries, and in different circumstances, have, as with one voice, declared that we have redemption in the blood of Christ, the forgiveness of sins.
     
    1889-Social Christianity page 112
     
    Those four epistles contain indisputable proof that St. Paul and the early Christians believed that Jesus had risen from the dead . That is all we want the New Testament to prove on this subject. We have then to choose between the universal belief of men who risked and forfeited their lives for their belief, and the à priori assumptions of modern scepticism . And that is not all. The historical evidence for the Resurrection includes the personal testimony of millions of Christians in every century of the Christian era, and of millions now living.
  10. Upvote
    Dmitar reacted to Space Merchant in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    What is stopping you from going to ARC to even read it? It was said many times here, ARC's information is open to the public.
    Other then that, that is quite a baseless remark; with a bit of reaching, and for reason. 
    That being said, you coined ARC, do yourself the favor and look into the findings themselves, the same ones that your video source has withheld from you.
    Other then that, cease the reaching.
    Here is the link for ARC - https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/ You can find Jehovah's Witnesses and all things pertaining to them from a 2 second search, not difficult as you make it out to be.
    I'm pretty sure every single JW who has access to the internet are found on multiple platforms. 
    Also seeing your history elsewhere, you are not a grounded person, as it is true here as well.
    Sure. But you're no quest, you logged in with an email, from a device tied to an IP Address via ISP on an open forum. One thing for certain, this proves that birds do not provide you internet access hence our last discussion regarding that.
    I thought you said you do not have a platform? Yesterday you said you do not have such things, now here you revealed to hypocritical state you have access to YouTube (logged into via email, from a device, tied to an IP via ISP).
    You leave comments, yet, nothing grounded or impactful to encourage a neutral discussion and or conversation about sex abuse.... Therefore your remark from yesterday was not true, let alone what you told the teenager.
    Here we go again... Access to someone's blog, using an email from a device, tied to an IP via ISP....
    Yesterday remark is starting not to age well.... A poor choice of words at best.
    It isn't about a freedom to profess elsewhere. You deliberately stated you only have this open forum as a platform.... Yet now you expose yourself without me saying anything.
    Even if you did counsel such things, you can easily be found out.
    The club isn't a platform, the forum is, hence the provider mentioned way at the bottom.
    Probably because you can talk about child sex abuse. In your other platforms, you post links and post things about awareness, mainly because of animals even advocate of aiding animals and the like, which I know because the teenager referred to you as Frida a few times, which confused me.
    But for some unknown reason you often speak about JWs from one sided sources, yet never used the opportunity to speak about child sex abuse from both sides of the spectrum or at a neutral setting.
    Clearly not. But I am not unwise to say having access to the internet, therefore only remaining on a single forum. I would not say something absurd to hide hypocrisy either.
    Devices and internet majority of the time 99.99% equates to access to other platforms, as long as you have an email (also derives from a platform, G+, Outlook, Yahoo, etc.)
    That being said, the Information Tech infrastructure  is what I dwell on, so I can see through the farce, even yours.
    I only called you out, nothing more.
    Srecko, this is why I said you pretend not to know, I hate theories, mainly conspiracy theories, I am Anti-Agenda, and I have a total dislike for the Left and Right Paradigm. Truthers hate theories for the fact that is results in misinformation, even getting people killed, i.e. Serena Shim, Seth Rich, Beck going into hiding (washed) etc and what revolved around their deaths; and how the MSM spins things.
    The only reason you can easily be found out in regards to platforms because all someone has to do is look up "Srecko Sostar" and everything is shown, as with your remarks. I need not do anything because your own name puts you in the spotlight. Just google yourself, see what comes up, you are everywhere on many platforms.
    Conspiracy Theories found it's way into Child Sex Abuse and Missing Persons cases, and that in of itself is damaging, I see it all the time, mainly when pedophile is weaponized. More so, JWI may not see what I see, but pedophilia seen as normal to some is a problem, people seeking to normalize it exist and you see how much of a problem that would be, hence my issue with the New York Times' agenda, which Butler did not see.
    Other than that, continue to kid yourself because the JW teen said the same thing, if you have a platform, you can use it in this manner, in fact, I can quote him
    My friend, we aren't talking about Activism, or to make change. The issue of morality stems from Scripture even, for if there is a danger, counsel can be given in a discussion about the subject matter.
    It does not matter if someone is young or if someone is old - you are on a platform where child abuse is openly discussion even at random, it shouldn't stop you or anyone from providing insight. Perhaps now would be the best time to do so. Like I said, there was only one thread that was Bible heavy on the matter because of discussion, if that can be done, you can do the same, after all, you can create threads as someone on this forum, since you did nothing, you can do something now.
    Therefore, you can do something. Does not have to be anything major either. I say this because for some ExJWs they don’t really cover these things.
    That being said, the fact you didn't know the mugshot results question of how well you are aware of sex and violence abuse crimes done to children and teens in the UK. The story of Sarah was a major story which can be felt to this day; to make a thread about CSA in the UK, but not knowing this, shows that you aren't really into any discussion about child sex abuse, even the ones taking place in the JW churches.
  11. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    WTJWorg and its representatives all these years have not written or said that the JW church has a problem with the CSA. They claim that these are false accusations and slanders by the "hostile world" and former members. Denying that a problem exists is also a type of education that JW members receive from their religious leaders. And you are calling me here that I am against education?
  12. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Ex JWs are 'cut off' from communication with JWs and JW children.  
    I know of two men, JWs, one is an Elder. I have reason to suspect them of being capable of CSA. You see I must chose my words carefully here.  I will of course be accused of just being anti-JW.  
    The local congregation quite often has 'dressing up' parties and the Elder wears costumes that other JWs find shocking. That Elder made a comment to a Sister about her two daughters which the Sister was shocked to hear. She told my wife and I about it. This was before i left the 'Org'.   
    The other man came to the local congregation and it seems that no one knows anything about his past. (If the Elders do know then they are keeping it secret) He has made himself 'very friendly' to one of my step daughters and her four young children, mainly the three girls. He gets the girls to sit on his knee.  My wife tells me of these things as my step daughter is still a JW and I'm not allowed to visit her and her family. So I cannot converse with those children that maybe at risk.  On one occasion, it seems, one of the girls was sitting on this man's lap and someone else entered the room, so the child got off his lap and went over to the other person. This man seemed to get very upset and moved seats to be closer to the girl. The whole family have remarked on this but no one has told the Body of Elders about this man's behavior.... My step daughter still allows this man to spend time with her children. As an ex-JW I am an outcast from them. If I make any accusations I will not be listened to or I will be accused of hating JWs. 
  13. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Sometimes my memory is short. I am not pretending. You speak more than it is necessary, when try to expose other people, supposed/alleged motives and position.  
    CSA is not "test" for victims, but it is "test" for GB and JW elders who put themselves in position to judge people (perpetrators and victims) about it. Who put themselves in position to bring Policy that is obligated for members to respect and obey inside WTJWorg. When JW elders convince a victim that they cannot and must not trust him/her because there are no two witnesses to support his/her claim, then it is disrespect to the victim. I think your claim is misdirected. Disrespect, in this example, cannot be directed at the type of crime, but at the people who experienced that crime on their own skin. Not trusting and not helping a victim who has gone through “hell”, that is disrespect/disrespectful.
  14. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    He is an interesting character. I presenting myself with real name (some would say that is a risk, because bad people can use photo and name for evil purpose) on this Forum and elsewhere if i leave comment or put "like". He have idea how visiting internet places, let say 1, 5 or 35 of millions that exists, means how person is "all over the place". Perhaps, guess internet only, and not all over geographic places, all over time places/points, or all over parallel universe, or in some third space-time reality.
    On contrary he representing himself with false name and an icon/figure that is strange. From some SF movie or what. Who can guarantee that he don't  visiting 100 platforms under 100 false names?
  15. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    It seems as if Truthers, or at least one Truther,  should be called a Snooper 
    definition of snoopers by The Free Dictionary
    https://www.thefreedictionary.com › snoopers   To pry into the private affairs of others, especially by prowling about.   I didn't know @Space Merchant was so bored that he spent his time snooping on people's internet activity.    Maybe I have to confess that i have around five Facebook pages. One is directed at Leaving the JW Org.  I may even have a Youtube account but i would think it is inactive.     I do see FB as a 'platform' of sorts and it is very useful to use to 'Preach the Good News of the Kingdom' whilst remaining outside of the JW domination. It's nice to be able to tell people that we ARE in the Last Days, without having to put silly dates or years on it. It's nice to be albe to show people that a Christian can be balanced.   
  16. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Wrong choice of words. Yes, i am Member in this Club.  If I want to leave a comment in this club or on some other page, then it is logical that I have to log in. Does that make me a “member” who swears allegiance?  If you do not want to loosen your perseverance, feel free to continue in the same scenario. I don’t mind if people want to see where I left a comment or tagged a video with “like”.
    Perhaps you have some sort of a OCD in this matter (as in Glasgow case too), as our other member of this club, Arauna, would say. Waiting for your (long) response. 
    One of our case studies examined the responses of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to allegations of child sexual abuse. We also held an institutional review hearing to provide an opportunity for the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to inform us of its current policies and procedures in relation to child protection and child safe standards, including responding to allegations of child sexual abuse.
    As of 31 May 2017, of the 4,029 survivors who told us during private sessions about child sexual abuse in religious institutions, 70 survivors told us about abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Of the victims we heard about, 80.0 per cent were female. The average age of victims at the time of first abuse was 8.4 years. Of the 53 survivors who told us about the age of the person who sexually abused them, 44 survivors (83.0 per cent) told us about abuse by an adult and 12 survivors (22.6 per cent) told us about abuse by a child. A small number of survivors told us about sexual abuse by an adult and by a child. The vast majority of survivors who told us about abuse by an adult perpetrator said they were abused by a male adult.
    Of the 65 survivors who told us during private sessions about the role of a perpetrator, 26.2 per cent told us about child sexual abuse by family members. This was considered to be within our Terms of Reference when the sexual abuse was reported to and handled by the religious institution. We also heard from survivors about other perpetrators including volunteers (13.8 per cent), lay leaders (9.2 per cent) and other adults who attended the religious institution (9.2 per cent).
    As part of our case study, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation provided us with files containing allegations, reports or complaints of child sexual abuse. They provided us with documents relating to at least 1,800 children and over 1,000 alleged perpetrators.
    Institutional responses to child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses
    Our case study regarding the Jehovah’s Witnesses showed that the organisation dealt with allegations of child sexual abuse in accordance with internal, scripturally based disciplinary policies and procedures. We found that at least until 1998, individuals making complaints of child sexual abuse were required to state their allegations in the presence of the person against whom the allegations were made. The ‘two-witness’ rule applied – that is, wrongdoing could only be established on the basis of testimony from two or more ‘credible’ eyewitnesses to the same incident (or strong circumstantial evidence testified to by at least two witnesses or testimony of two witnesses to the same kind of wrongdoing). Allegations were investigated by elders, all of whom were men and had no relevant training.
    We found that in deciding the sanctions to impose and/or the precautions to take in relation to a known or suspected perpetrator of child sexual abuse, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation had inadequate regard for the risk that the person might reoffend. Alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse who were removed from their congregations as a result of allegations of child sexual abuse were frequently reinstated. We found no evidence of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation reporting allegations of child sexual abuse to police or other civil authorities.
    During our case study we heard from survivors of child sexual abuse that they were not provided with adequate information by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation about the investigation of their allegations, felt unsupported by the elders who handled the allegations, and felt that the investigation process was a test of their credibility rather than that of the alleged perpetrator. We also heard that victims of child sexual abuse were told by congregational elders not to discuss the abuse with others, and that if they tried to leave the organisation, they were ‘shunned’ or ostracised from their religious community.
    Contributing factors in the Jehovah’s Witnesses
    We considered a number of factors that may have contributed to the occurrence of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses or to inadequate institutional responses to such abuse.
    The Jehovah’s Witness organisation addresses child sexual abuse in accordance with scriptural direction, relying on a literal interpretation of the Bible and 1st century principles to set practice, policy and procedure. These include the ‘two-witness’ rule as discussed, as well as the principle of ‘male headship’ (that men hold positions of authority in congregations and headship in the family). Scripturally, only men can make decisions. Other scripture-based policies include the sanctions of reproval (a form of discipline that allows a perpetrator to remain in the congregation), disfellowshipping (exclusion or excommunication as a form of punishment for serious scriptural wrongdoing), and shunning (an instruction to the congregation not to associate with a disfellowshipped person). As long as the Jehovah’s Witness organisation continues to apply these practices in its response to allegations of child sexual abuse, it will remain an organisation that does not respond adequately to child sexual abuse and that fails to protect children.
    We recommend that the Jehovah’s Witness organisation abandon its application of the two-witness rule in cases involving complaints of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.27), revise its policies so that women are involved in processes relating to investigating and determining allegations of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.28), and no longer require its members to shun those who disassociate from the organisation in cases where the reason for disassociation is related to a person being a victim of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.29).
    We welcome the inclusion in the recently published Child safeguarding policy of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia of a requirement to report child sexual abuse to civil authorities in cases where elders consider that a child may still be at risk of harm. The Jehovah’s Witness organisation should also amend all of its policies and procedures relating to child sexual abuse to ensure that this requirement is included.
    Which of these was posted on the WTJWorg official site for JW members to read? Did they post a link like you did at this club?
  17. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    So why then does the WTJWorg official site not put on its site the complete video program and all the ARC records to be available to any orthodox JW who is not on other platforms like me and others like me?
    I am a regular guest on this Forum, for now. Sometimes I leave a comment on another YT video or someone’s blog or whatever it’s called, a page or something. So it’s not a problem that I have the freedom to choose and view other people’s content elsewhere. But you make a big question out of it. Am I interested in which platforms you operate on? Not. But you’re someone who checks other people’s internet activity and then forges your own theories. Relax a little, please nice.
  18. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Do all abusers "look" this awful? Or do you mistakenly promote the image of abusers looking messy and neglected? 
  19. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Yes, if we count few individuals at this Forum, called Jehovah's Witnesses Open Club, with informative topics.
    This Open JW Club is in fact "illegal" in the eyes of WTJWorg and GB and Legal Department. In what sense  "illegal"?  The title of club contains the name Jehovah's Witnesses. I assume that the name Jehovah's Witnesses  is the intellectual property of WTJWorg and should not be used without their consent. Because the club does not have the approval of the GB to promote JW religious ideas beyond/out of the range of official JW religious teachings of the JW Church and outside the official JW channels. Because this club does not have the GB approval to conduct any debate that calls into question the JW religious system. Because there is no GB approval for the discussion to be led by current and former JW members (discussion of this type, ie interaction between current and former members is actually completely forbidden by GB). If the JW elders of the congregations, to which the members of this club belong, learned that these JW brothers and sisters are members of this club and that they are participants in the discussions, they would be invited to serious conversation and at least warned if not rebuked or even excluded / dfd from the JW assembly.
    The claim that JW members are aware of the prevalence of CSA within the JW church is arbitrary and I am not sure that your picture is correct regarding their awareness of CSA. One young brother (approximately 30 years old) told me directly in 2015 that he did not believe in the CSA within the JW and that he did not believe in court rulings in this regard. He recently became an elder in my former congregation. It is to be expected that his position on this issue has not changed, that is, that he is still in a state of denial. CSA is at least 50 years inside WTJWorg. I found about real CSA JW victims with name and face and court rulings only in "secular" sources, not on pages of WTJWorg magazines or their videos.
    Oh man. You are "worst" than them.   If 30 year old JW male member claimed how this are all lies, in 2015, and one GB member made similar claim on JWTV, then problem is not about "how to deal" with something (CSA in this moment), but about general denial that CSA exist inside WTJWorg. Other GB member made different view when made public statements.
     
     
    I'm glad you mentioned that. When I realized that the topic could become a source of misinformation because I didn’t understand the English text in the video well, so I misinterpreted it, deleting the topic was a good choice, in my opinion. If the owner of this Forum thought I should have reacted differently, then he would certainly have warned me about it. But that is his right as the owner, not yours. If I have offended your feelings by deleting that topic, then I apologize to you. I hope that one day in the future you will be able to forget that topic and move on with your healed feelings. 
    Regarding solutions. Your solutions and counsels or recommendations, that without doubt are good, would be, i guess, welcomed in WTJWorg if you deliver to them in writing. WTJWorg is a large system that has millions of members and millions of those associated with them. So, if they got the information you have about solving a CSA problem, you would do a good deed that would benefit millions. 
    On contrary, i am only on this platform, JW Open Club. Please, tell us all here, what are those names of "all over the place" where i am and, allegedly, participate, and supposedly, I make an impact on millions ?   
    And you thought I was an expert on this subject? 
  20. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to ApostaBabe Linda James in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Yes, I've caught wind this as well. They're calling it a pilot something or another for about two, maybe three months.
    For the most part, we can assume that children say under what I believe to be 12 years old, won't be attending these meetings because they have not been vaccinated for Covid-19. Being vaccinated is part of the requirements as far as showing up at these Kingdom Hall meetings. So unless the age limit changes to a lower age for receiving C-19 vaccinations, we can pretty much assume those 12 and under will not be in attendance at these Kingdom Hall's.
    So although I have concern about the members returning to the Kingdom Hall's for their meetings, something's just not right about this whole thing. I my share my concerns later. But I agree with you Space Merchant on becoming more educated on CSA. Especially on how this organization has set things up on how to handle CSA case's. Unfortunately it is because of lack of Education on CSA that the Elders will remain absolutely ignorant regarding how the leadership of the Org is going to keep having them do their dirty work for them all the while intending for the elders to take the fall as they keep getting thrown under the bus by the leadership of the organization. The leadership will then claim that they had nothing to do with how the elders own conscience had lead him to take care of their own congregation reports of alleged CSA case's. Much like in the Montana CSA case where when the perpetrator admitted guilt when questioned by the elders, changed his mind and skipped town down to Mexico.
    In the Utah case where an elder decided to display his own infinite wisdom by taking it upon himself to make an alleged victim who was 14 at the time of her alleged rape, listen to an audio recording, that the alleged rapist, who was 18 at the time that he had allegedly raped her, had made. This audio recording with which he had recorded without her consent nor her knowledge, of her very own alleged rape was handed over to the elder so as to confirm his innocence. This way the elders could listen to it and determine whether she was a consensual partner as the 18 year old had claimed or not. She nor her parents were made aware that this audio recording even existed until after this judicial meeting had started. Five hour's, I repeat, FIVE HOUR'S of her having to listen to this audio recording as the Elder would repeatedly stop and ask her questions such as, "describe what was going on here?" She begged him to stop making her listen to it and to answer to him. Everyone in this judicial meeting could see how she was visibly shaking and crying while being made to re-live this alleged rape that she had originally reported to the elders. Her parents were informed either before or during the beginning of this judicial meeting, that they were not to interrupt this meeting under any circumstances otherwise the consequence would be their daughter's disfellowshipping. As I recall, I believe the parents were threatened with the consequence of disfellowshipping as well their daughter, so all three of them were in fact being horribly traumatized. Yet Mr. Infinite Wisdom Elder would start up the recording, play it for a bit more and then stop the recording to make more inquiries of her. Yes, she continue to beg the elder to stop through her tears.
    Actuality, aside from a few cases like these two above case's, the elders do exactly as they are instructed to do by the leadership. They make that phone call to headquarters for them to receive their legal advice. Which they ( the elders ) are basically there to stall the rank and file members from ever opening up any CSA case's with the secular Authorities. So when elders tell alleged victims of CSA that they have every right to tell the police, these elders have no intention to cooperate with the police when asked to. The elders will also add that by starting a case with the secular Authorities, it will only drag Jehovah's name through the mud. This statement alone is often a  successful deterrent on the part of the elders to avoid the rank-and-file members from filing any charges with the secular authorities.
    In my opinion, all of this "dragging Jehovah's name through the mud" is a sorry explanation of an excuse used for the reason of stalling their members to not go to the secular authorities. But it works, so they'll continue to use it.
    How about Jehovah take some responsibility for his own reputation rather than making it the rank-and-file members responsibility. This is truly an unfair and uncalled for burden to put on alleged victims of CSA as well their families, 
  21. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    But it proves where their hearts and minds are. 
  22. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    I agree with your prediction you repeated several times on various topics. This only proves that the WTJWorg Administration along with its members is dormant in its self-confidence of living in a “spiritual paradise”. Poor internal communication, poor policies and rules of conduct in critical situations, poor education, in general, and especially for CSA. The fact that they are capable organizers for construction projects and the purchase / sale of real estate is not enough.
  23. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Pudgy in Latest Info on JW.org Ramapo Audio Video Production Center   
    ....and don't forget the natural woodlands holographs protecting the entrances to the Flying Saucer repair hangers and refueling facility hollowed out with those tunnels. Those things are not cheap, you know ......
    That's why they have whole underground factories with row after row of workers at sewing machines, day after day, turning out women's fashions for the Ferengi.
  24. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Latest Info on JW.org Ramapo Audio Video Production Center   
    So that's it.  Bunkers under Warwick and under Ramapo, all linked together by underground tunnels. 
    When the big trouble starts the GB and their Lawyers & helpers et al, will all go underground.
    All paid for by donations and built by slaves of the Org.  
  25. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Pudgy in Latest Info on JW.org Ramapo Audio Video Production Center   
    There is a huge Jewish population in the Ramapo, Warwick NY area, and the new WTB&TS headquarters is also on an area peppered with old gold and silver mines, so it occurred to me that the secret agenda might be Golem Harvesting, left over from 1863 by the immigrants from what is now Prague, the Czech Republic.
     
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