Dmitar

It doesn't show the underground bunkers though  

At the very beginning of my comment, I have to notice how intensely you have given down votes to a large number of my comments since your name appeared on the forum. Now for the second time you call me a friend and even more, dear friend. I don’t mind either way of communicating. But friend, let me say a few words about what you wrote.
The example from the desert and the example of Jerusalem have one thing in common when it comes to the time period of these events. Both events culminated in a short period, in just a few decades. As for the people in the desert, the report sets the time at 40 years, and as for Jerusalem, from Jesus ’words uttered in 33 CE to 70 CE, 37 years have passed.
Well we see, when WTJWorg today, draws parallels and interpretations then it has obviously lost sight of the fact that the representative/s of each generation from both examples was/were at the beginning and end of the one and same event. There is no so called "overlap" in WTJWorg sense of meaning. Today’s doctrine of the “overlapping generation” that JWs preach, to themselves for the most part, has gone completely beyond the time frame of the biblical examples you cited. 
Why I emphasized the word today. Because WTJWorg has in the past announced Armageddon within a small number of years (one or two, three decades). Today, with the "overlapping generation", they are trying to get out of his own theology, which they imposed so strongly in the past. But again, they limited themselves in time frame, as it is hard for them to admit that Armageddon may not come for the next 50-100 years either. If they talked about it publicly in that way, they would be left without most of the membership, which is now in the organization. Well, they again limited themselves in time to two overlapping generations. Fortunately for them, the term they invented will give future WTJWorg theologians the opportunity to juggle terminology and a new interpretation for future generations of JW members.
The behavior of humanity does not encourage people to look to the future with hope, we agree. But how far can that go? If God wants to save the innocent and from destroying the planet earth, he does not have to wait for the future. It could have done this many times already in the 20th century.., and not just because of the destruction of the planet. Well, do JWs think God will be motivated by a desire to save planet Earth to start Armageddon? Shouldn't his motive be primarily due to the destruction of human lives that have suffered from powerful people and villains from the ancient past to the present?
 

The hypothesis starts with Noah, not necessarily how long a person lives. I however use a more progressive calculation by events. By events and natural history, perhaps by 2023/4 we will have a better understanding by global events. Some link their thoughts to 2021/2 which we are now seeing how fast humanity and this earth is deteriorating quicker than before. These are all hypothesis for entertainment purposes, not to be viewed as literal or by any other form. Students of the Bible need to wait and see, just like Christ himself.

Perhaps Peter's words can also help your argument in Act 3:21. 
21 For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration (restitution) of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
The view in the late 19th century was synonymous with restitution, rather than the modern view of restoration. That was the purpose of Brother Rutherford's book. It would be the adequate assumption for this time period of this debate.
What were other Christian sects preaching about eternal damnation and how the wicked would be condemned forever without the possibility of being granted clemency from the original sin. They referred to those wicked ones, the second death. But, what about repentance and at what time? What was Christ words recorded in Luke 23:43? While none of us can forecast who will be saved, we do know how we can guarantee our own destruction. By not obeying God and not listening to Christ by God's inspired words.
That was the message of that period.

How can Jehovah use your organization when you admit you are not inspired by the holy spirit?

👍Yes, I agree

The easiest way to explain Jesus words in Matthew is, one generation literally heard Jesus speak of Jerusalem destruction, while another generation actually saw that destruction. In the case of JW’s, the generation of 1914 has literally seen the commencement of the last portion of the final days of God's judgment, while the message of Christ continues until the last generation will see Jehovah’s day.
How can we be sure of this? We just need to remember the past. Jehovah spoke to Noah and instructed him to prepare for an impending destruction. While Noah was faithfully executing those commands, he was also warning people of this impending destruction. If they didn’t want to get caught up and consumed by it, they needed to repent.
When Jehovah’s final day of judgment came, was Noah and his family the “only ones” to literally see it? No! Everyone living on earth saw that judgment. Were they the only ones to experience that judgment? No! The spiritual world experienced that destruction. That means, Jesus, Satan and all the angels, good or bad, saw that judgment.
How many generations passed before all of human creation saw that destruction. Did any humans pass away? Would those who died before that judgment raised again after Noah settled in the land?
 
Another view can be seen with Jesus. Was Jesus actually present when judgment came to Jerusalem? How about some apostles. When Jesus walked the earth. Were all of Jesus generation present in 70 CE? Did Jesus raise “all” the dead in 33 CE? Peter raised someone from the died, Acts 9:36-42, so did Paul in Act's 20:7-12. So, how much authority did God grant at that time and was Jesus the sole recipient. By 1914, Christ heavenly enthronement gave him FULL authority over the living and dead. How can, we be sure? Has anyone after 100 CE been raised by Jehovah’s authority? Has Paradise been restored after 100 CE? No! That future generation that is spoken in Matthew has not seen the son of man’s full power and authority granted to him by his sacrifice. That is the debate Brothers Russell and Rutherford were bringing forward in their books.
 
1920-Millions now living will never die! Page 12
We therefore propose to prove in this argument that the social order of things, the second world, legally ended in 1914, and since that time has been and is passing away; that the new order of things is coming in to take its place; that within a definite period of time the old order will be completely eradicated and the new order in full sway; and that these things shall take place within the time of the present generation and that therefore there are millions of people now living on earth who will see them take place, to whom everlasting life will be offered and who, if they accept it upon the terms offered and obey those terms, will never die.
 ECCLESIASTES
1:4. Cod designed the earth to be the permanent home of man. and although now the generations succeed one another in death yet death shall cease, as other Scriptures show. P-115
 
WHAT PASTOR RUSSELL SAID
 SECOND COMING--Present or Future?
Q636:1:: QUESTION (1911)--2--In the twenty-fourth chapter of Matthew, Christ tells his disciples of many signs of his second coming, and in the thirty-fourth verse, says, "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." How is this statement reconciled with the belief that his second coming has not yet occurred?
 
ANSWER--A full answer of this will be found in the fourth volume of Scripture Studies. If my memory serves me right, there are about eighty pages on that one subject, and anyone interested would do well to read it very carefully. Briefly answering the question as it is here, we would say that Jesus in the narative carries the mind of his hearers down from the day in which they were to the time when these things will happen, and when these will happen, and these, and so on, pointing clear down to the end of the age, and then indicating that the generation that would see these signs down in the end of the age would not have fully passed away before the consumation of this age. Not the generation he was talking to, surely, but the generation respecting which he was talking, the generation that would see these signs when they would be fulfilled--that generation would not pass away, it would not be a long enough time to be more than a generation from the time certain things would be seen until the full consumation of the age.
 This holds true today inasmuch as it did back then.
 Have people seen a vaster deterioration of humanity after 1914? YES! This is literal and not a made-up assertion by historical accounts.
This would also strengthen a weak point by someone asserting that somehow Jesus was made King in either 30 CE or 33 CE. If the apostles had Jehovah’s authority to bring the dead back to life and Jesus was king, it would have undermined his Authority as king in heaven and on earth.
The concept of overlapping generations is not found as a searchable concept with JW’s, but can be found in the mind of an unreasonable person. JW’s should be confident their understanding of Matthew 24:32-24, Mark 13:28-31, Luke 21:29-33 are correct. 

Bravo. Interesting and inspirational view. WTJWorg needs Bible scholars like you. These today's GB helpers, as well as those from the past, can be ashamed that this has not occurred to them before. Such an explanation solves the existing dilemmas about 1914 and the “invisible presence”. 
Because, after all, every invisible presence still has a visible manifestation. For example, electricity is in the wires and is invisibly present in our house. But it will only become visible when one of the people turns on the light switch or some other device.
What did they turn on / off in WTJWorg, in the past, so that the visible presence became invisible?

https://knox.villagesoup.com/2021/10/09/lawsuit-alleges-church-elder-sexually-abused-youth/
Allegations also say other elders threatened to sue family of victim if they referred abuse complaint to law enforcement.
 
A lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a local woman who said she was repeatedly sexually assaulted as a child by an elder at the Rockland Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Rockport.  The lawsuit was filed Sept. 30 in the Knox County court against the Rockport congregation and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.  The woman said she was molested multiple occasions between 1993 and 1996 when she was 11 to 13 years old. The victim disclosed to her mother about the abuse in 1996 and the mother immediately informed the other elders of the congregation, the lawsuit stated. Instead of investigating the allegations or removing the elder from his position, the elders threatened a lawsuit against the victim’s family if they went public. That pressure led the family not to report the abuse to law enforcement, according to the lawsuit.  Shortly after the woman reported the abuse, the congregation disfellowshipped her, with the elder who said she abused her being on the judicial committee that took the action.  Bigos said the Washington man who molested the young woman remains an elder and is the registered agent for the congregation.  According to the lawsuit, at age 17 the victim wanted to rejoin the Jehovah’s Witnesses along her with then-boyfriend but she was told she would need to recant her abuse allegation.  The lawsuit also alleges that Watchtower would issue policies to elders and among these recommendations were to report allegations of child molestation to Watchtower rather than law enforcement. The elders should also not warn the congregation of threats posed by an accused child abuser, and the elders should not cooperate when confronted with a search warrant but instead contact Watchtower.
Now whether this is hyped up, or if it's just advertising for the Laywers, or even if it's false news.
The point is that this CSA reporting against the JW Org is not going away. 
Will members of the public be 'turned off' from communicating with JWs because of this ? Especially as this Elder still holds his position in the congregation. Yes CSA IS everywhere, but that does not help the org. 

Isn't that exactly the problem with the current explanation? We currently have overlapping generations living together, but are we therefore contemporaries with the (US) Civil War generation who finally all died out around 1960? (I was born in 1957 and actually met one of them while out in service in 1964.) Are we currently living together with the generation of new babies who will be born after we die?
If I made a speech today in front of all the contemporary generations alive today, and I said that THIS generation is going to see people living on Mars, but it doesn't happen until 121 years from now . . . then could anyone read my speech in the year 2142 and claim that I was right?
It's difficult to imagine that someone could have great-great-great-grandchildren in 2142 and that those children would be saying to one another that their own great-great-great-grandmother actually knew someone named JWI who correctly predicted that we, in this very generation in 2142, would see it come true. That JWI was brilliantly correct! 

But if your grand child is going to watch ex-JW material it is easily possible that your influence (regarding the WTJWorg doctrine) will not be of any use.  On the other hand, every effort you would make to make a child an honest and responsible person is commendable.

Good question.
As you know, page 20 of the Kingdom Rules book shows an illustration of the Bible Students preaching, with the caption "In 1914, the Bible Students began to discern the sign of Christ’s invisible presence"
And then page 50, par 5 it says "As we saw in Chapter 2 of this book, the Bible Students spent decades pointing out that the year 1914 would be significant in fulfilling Bible prophecy.  However, at that time they believed that Christ’s presence had begun in 1874, that he had begun to rule in heaven in 1878..."
It's like two different people wrote chapter 2 and chapter 5 of the book. It's confusing....
 

I wonder if they are going to get rid of the idea that the first group "readily discerned the sign of Christ's presence in 1914." I expect that the new phrasing will become simply "they were alive to see the sign of Christ's presence in 1914."
*** w14 1/15 p. 31 pars. 15-16 “Let Your Kingdom Come”—But When? ***
The first group was on hand in 1914, and they readily discerned the sign of Christ’s presence in that year. Those who made up this group were not merely alive in 1914, but they were spirit-anointed as sons of God in or before that year.—Rom. 8:14-17.
16 The second group included in “this generation” are anointed contemporaries of the first group. They were not simply alive during the lifetime of those in the first group, but they were anointed with holy spirit during the time that those of the first group were still on earth.
It took until 1943 to get rid of the idea that Jesus' presence had started in 1874. So how could anyone in the first group readily "discern" the sign of Christ's presence in 1914?
Of course, there really were contemporary (overlapping) generations in 1914, just as there were contemporary (overlapping) generations who were alive when Jesus spoke of "this generation" in 33 CE. In Jesus' day, they were the generation of grandparents, the generation of parents and the generation of children, all alive together in 33 CE. Therefore, if we're honest, then, it would have been the generation of grandparents, parents, and children alive in 1914 who made up those contemporary (overlapping) generations in 1914. That means that any anointed persons born after 33 CE were NOT, strictly speaking, contemporaries with those who heard Jesus talk about the generation. And anyone born in 1915 or later was NOT, strictly speaking, a contemporary of those anointed who were alive in 1914.
I'm also wondering why they set up a rule restricting it to anointed only. Was it only anointed persons who heard about Jesus prophecy in 33 CE, and who survived until 70 CE to see that he was right? And, for an example, let's say that Jerusalem hadn't been burned by Rome until say around 150 CE, when all those actual contemporaries alive in 33 CE were long dead. Would we be defending Jesus' words with the idea that the apostle John must have grown old and died around the year 100 CE, but some babies who never met John were born just before he died, and those "babies" lived as contemporaries of John and were still alive in 150 CE?
Maybe, we would. But I think it's more likely that someone would think about the 120 year "generation" of Noah's day, and would take note that 33 to 150 CE is just under 120 years. 😉

I think the society is trying to word it as "contemporaries".....two groups of people, one group old, the other group younger and both groups having experienced the signs of the times.....or on this case experienced Br. Franz being alive (as an example). At least I think that's how it is 🤔 In any case, if explaining this requires mental gymnastics, then it's a bit fishy in my opinion....

It's possible that the restitution began in 1919 with the spiritual paradise.  Enjoy your reading of the following explaination.

Well there is also an issue to this where some attempt to use spurious text.
Example, this spurious verses: 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Led people to believe that they can drink poison, be it from snake or other, and assuming that they will not be harmed. and or not at Death's Door after consumption. Believe it or not, some people actually did take this literally and paid for it. On top of that, these same folks believe that they still have specific gifts of which the Apostles had in the past, i.e. have visions/be transfigured, as is with Inspired Prophets, despite the fact such ability died off with the last Apostle.
On the other side of the spectrum, it cannot be confused with anything pertaining to prophecy, which is written and or is to take place and or to come.

(1.)  You can read the biblical accounts, it’s either there or it’s not there.
(2.)  You can read the biblical accounts, it’s either there or it’s not there.
It’s not there.

 

Your example, Ariana, may prove something …. But it does not prove different generations make up one generation, any more than cutting a fishing worm into three parts proves the Trinity.
The fact remains that NOWHERE did Jesus teach overlapping generations. 
The whole concept is a desperate fantasy to try and recover from being 100% wrong, 100% of the time, to desperate people who lubricate the “Chariot’s” wheels with a never ending waterfall of money, desperately wanting to believe it is true.
…. and emotionally comforted because with this fantasy explanation, their faith is now justified, and all is well.

I am not sure of this claim, because on the basis of which all those who have never believed in Jesus, and belong to the righteous and the unjust, will then be able to be resurrected. They belong to various nations and religions from ancient times to the present day.

Just for fun. Perhaps "Overlapping millions" will never die. Because the overlap goes on and on .., 

Rutherford said "MILLIONS now living will never die", and at that time there were not even one million of 'them'.  But then he 'invented' the Jehovah's Witnesses, and then something happened where the teaching became 'Only JW's will survive because the Org is the 'New Ark'.  @JW Insider has written that the 'feeling in the Org' is not to guess how many wil be saved. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This is from the Watchtower as I've shown before. 
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201001/what-is-judgment-day/
Jesus Judges “the Living”
We are now nearing the foretold end of the present system of things, when God will destroy all elements of corrupt human society  and remove the wicked. Survivors of this system’s end are “the living” who will be judged.—Revelation 7:9-14; 19:11-16.
During that period of judgment, which will last 1,000 years, Christ Jesus along with 144,000 men and women resurrected to life in heaven will rule over the earth. They will serve as kings and priests, administering the benefits of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice and progressively elevating faithful humans to physical and mental perfection.—Revelation 5:10; 14:1-4; 20:4-6.
( That is the Judging of those that live through Armageddon. )
 
Judging “the Dead”
The Bible says that during Judgment Day the dead will “rise up.” (Matthew 12:41) Jesus said that “the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:28, 29) This is not referring to disembodied souls of those who have died. The dead are totally unconscious and do not have a soul that survives death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14, 23, 24) Jesus will bring those asleep in death back to life again on earth.
Will the judgment of resurrected ones be based on what they did before their death? No. The Bible teaches that “he who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) So, like those who survive the end of this system, those resurrected to life on earth will be judged “according to their deeds” during Judgment Day. (Revelation 20:12, 13) Depending on the final outcome of their actions, this will turn out to be either a resurrection that results in everlasting life or a resurrection that results in destruction. Many of those restored to life will for the first time come to know about Jehovah God and his requirements for life. They will have the opportunity to live in harmony with God’s will and receive everlasting life on earth.
( So the Living and the resurrected Dead will ALL be judged, according to Watchtower teachings ) 
Rando says that the living are being judged now, and that makes sense. But this W/t information says the Living will be judged after Armageddon. Survivors of this system’s end are “the living” who will be judged.
Anna said it is the resurrected dead that will be judged during the 1,000 years. She is right but it will also include those that live through Armageddon. So, like those who survive the end of this system, those resurrected to life on earth will be judged “according to their deeds” during Judgment Day.
Arauna, In your comment above 
Ezekiel 9 talks about the angel with the inkpot that will mark everyone for survival through Armageddon. We are in this period right now!  The winds of destruction are being held back for the 144000 to be sealed and also for the great crowd to be marked!   We are marked according to our Christian personality.  ................  The bible itself says they must have the name of the father AND the son!   If you read your bible regularly you will feel guilty over any behavior that is unacceptable to Jehovah and adjust it according to the righteous standards of God - being NICE is NOT the criteria!      Accepting Jehovah and his Son means that we also accept those "principles " which most people find tedious and unnecessary!
 I agree with this. But I note you do not say that one 'has to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses' 
Which then brings me back to the point of the JW teaching, that one has to be a baptised JW to be saved'. 
Remember how the teaching about the Superior Authorities (Romans) was taught properly by Russell/Rutherford (one of them), but then is was misused by the Watchtower / JW org. Then eventually it got put right again. 
Well maybe Rutherford was right about the Millions outside of the 'fold' being saved, but then the Watchtower / JW Org misused the idea. Maybe it will swing back the other way soon. 

That is not the question you should be asking.
The question you should be asking is this:
"When Jesus was talking to his Disciples, was he teaching "Overlapping Generations?".
The answer is NO!
 

I agree with you there ... just as long as I do not have to accept "Overlapping Generations", which as far as I know, was never taught by Jesus, but is taught by the Governing Body.
 

*** w65 3/15 p. 181 par. 16 Earthly Opportunity Opened Up by Resurrection ***
16 The High Priest Jesus Christ is the “One decreed by God to be judge of the living and the dead...(Acts 10:42, 43; 17:31; 2 Tim. 4:1) In order that there may be a righteous judgment of the dead as well as of the sheeplike people who live through the battle of Armageddon, the dead must be resurrected from Haʹdes or Sheol.
 
I would say, unless there is a clear understanding of Christ restitution, the formidable will continue to be hazy. It is clear the same subject is being presented by opposite ends. But still lacks a comprehensive explanation. 

It must be acknowledged that every aspect of the public preaching conducted by WTJWorg, practically from its inception, involves the proclamation of Armageddon and the global destruction of an unknown number of people, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ and God and their rule, it is the Kingdom of Heaven.
So, in that sense, the verdict/judgement was passed a long time ago and no "Judgment Day" is needed as a separate period of time in which people should be tried on the basis of some other criteria. For, according to such an interpretation, Armageddon is the only real turning point for this imperfect humanity.
What WTJWorg reads from the Bible is the emergence of some new humanity after Armageddon, which God believes needs to pass a new test, proving that they are worth living after literally 1000 years of the Earthly Kingdom of Heaven.
Thus, most (unknown number) of imperfect humanity living today deserves to be executed in Armageddon. The perfect humanity that will emerge under the leadership of WTJWorg Princes deserves to be examined, and only then to be, and again it is a large (unknown) number of perfect individuals who do not satisfy, destroyed in some kind of subsequent Armageddon.
Imperfect humanity ends in Armageddon.
Perfect humanity ends in Final Test.