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Dmitar

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  1. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    They are not found in the two earliest available papyri ....
    This sentence does not claim that it will not be found one day. This sentence does not claim that subsequently found text will not be considered “inspired text”.
  2. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    As far as I could notice regarding other Jesus stories (chapters of Luke before and after the story of Lazarus), illustrations, parables, and similar descriptions, one could say that they have elements that were real (that happened to someone, somewhere), or would could be real in everyday life (which will happen, they could happen to someone, somewhere). If Jesus did not believe in an immortal soul and hell, and neither did the Jews who listened to him, then I do not see real need, why Jesus would use “pagan” motives to give lessons to the Jews. 
    I can answer, at least, on two ways on this. 
    A) If Jesus was brave enough to tear down the tables of the merchants in the Temple and make them flee, then I see why it would not be possible for him to deal diplomatically with a multitude of hypocrites, fanatics, seduced believers, self-proclaimed righteous and influential religious leaders.
    B) There are also, in fact, many other things that Jesus did, which if ever they were written in full detail, I suppose the world itself could not contain the scrolls written. - Lk 21:25
  3. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Equivocation in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    They left it out just like the rest of those who understand textual Analytics. If The Book of John was completed, and centuries later, out of nowhere the passage was added just like that, then that is a problem, and that is what caused people to make a note as to why it was removed.
    Therefore, The story of the adulterous woman was inserted into The Book of John too late to be a genuine record of Jesus’ dealings with this woman. It may be one of the most charitable stories in the entire Bible, which it looks to be just by reading it, worthy of reflection, however, and sadly, it is not a true story, and anything spurious, be it verse or passage is noted as an exaggerated story (or unauthentic). Likewise with other verses mentioned.
    On the JW Library, it states the following -
    The earliest authoritative manuscripts do not have the passage from Joh 7:53 to 8:11. These 12 verses were obviously added to the original text of John’s Gospel. (See App. A3.) They are not found in the two earliest available papyri containing the Gospel of John, Papyrus Bodmer 2 (P66) and Papyrus Bodmer 14, 15 (P75), both from the second century C.E., nor are they found in the Codex Sinaiticus or Codex Vaticanus, both from the fourth century C.E. They first appear in a Greek manuscript from the fifth century (Codex Bezae) but are not found in any other Greek manuscripts until the ninth century C.E. They are omitted by most of the early translations into other languages. One group of Greek manuscripts places the added words at the end of John’s Gospel; another group puts them after Lu 21:38. That this portion appears at different places in different manuscripts supports the conclusion that it is a spurious text. Scholars overwhelmingly agree that these verses were not part of the original text of John.
    A3 - Greek Text: In the late 19th century, scholars B. F. Westcott and F.J.A. Hort compared existing Bible manuscripts and fragments as they prepared the Greek master text that they felt most closely reflected the original writings. In the mid-20th century, the New World Bible Translation Committee used that master text as the basis for its translation. Other early papyri, thought to date back to the second and third centuries C.E., were also used. Since then, more papyri have become available. In addition, master texts such as those by Nestle and Aland and by the United Bible Societies reflect recent scholarly studies. Some of the findings of this research were incorporated into this present revision.
     
  4. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Equivocation in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    That does not answer the question - you are just giving somewhat of a miniature summary of the passage.
    I said [Anyways, my question to you see, do you believe Jesus really saved an adulterous woman, even though it was never recorded in the earliest available mss sources we have come to know?]
    If Jesus really saved an adulterous woman as seen in John 7:53-8:11, why is it this passage came much, much later when the Book of John was essentially completed? If this passage was canon, it would not have been a later addition, and ALL Bibles would have this passage. I pointed out that nearly 267 early mss does not have those verses about the adulterous woman, so it is a spurious passage, false.
    This was my comment, if you haven't read it - 
     
    He didn't save an adulterous woman because the passage was never canon. If it was canon, then an explanation could have been given the day the question about the passage was first mentioned.
    If Apostle John, who was an inspired person, didn't write the passage, then who are we to assume, or confirm that he did when the mss is available to us?
    The only people who consider it as true are those who constantly affirm that the KJV is the one and only true Bible. This passage is also in the same light as Acts 8:37, and the other verses mentioned.
  5. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Pudgy in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    .... I do however, draw the line at the supposed "New Scrolls", as reported by the "Babylon Bee" ....
     
    " WASHINGTON, D.C.—Donald J. Trump was seen riding what appeared to be a donkey in the slow lane of Interstate 95 before taking the 395 North then exiting into downtown Washington, D.C., thus fulfilling the prophecy, “Behold, thy Orange King cometh unto thee, meek, meeker than all others, the meekest maybe, and sitting upon an ass, that he kicketh ass and draineth swamps.”
      President Trump was welcomed by patriots of all creeds, races, and religions, who lay before him palm fronds from Mar-a-Lago, tattered Trump 2020 flags, and MyPillows®, guaranteed the most comfortable pillows you’ll ever own™. The multitude then followed Trump, crying “Hosanna to the son of Fred,” which rolled off the tongue as if sung by angels.
    Trump gladly spoke to the press, which the humbled journalists found refreshing. “You would not believe how I got this donkey, which I’ve named ‘Rigged Election,’ by the way,” said the 45th and 47th President. “I just sent Giuliani to the neighboring village, where he saw an ass tied alongside a colt, to bring it to me. Today is probably the most prophetic day in history, as far as I know.”
    When President Trump entered the White House to kick the interloper to the curb, Biden was nowhere to be found. They did find Kamala Harris locked in her soundproof office, and a naked, dazed Hunter Biden smearing fingerpaint on one of the priceless historical paintings. A silver alert has been issued for the former president, who was last seen in the National Mall talking to the trees.
    Trump autographed the donkey and plans to sell it to the highest bidder."
  6. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Pudgy in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    I believe the story of Jesus forgiving the adulterous woman to be entirely consistent with everything else in the New Testament, without exception, and that is why when I go out in Service, use a Bible with those scriptures included.
    I used to make rough drafts of essays on index cards, before my first drafts, and later final working transcripts, and then final edits ..... I used to use 3"x5" index cards.
    I suspect back in the Apostle's days it was even more important as they were writing on leather with ink. (Think about THAT, willya?). Not just the final Epistle, but outlines and notes.
    (Visualizes a small leather "Post-It Note"stuck to the wall with diluted boiled sinew glue, and it fell off, and slipped behind the writing table ...)
    I consider the "deleted" scriptures to have possibly been on one of the Apostle's notes, found later, and inserted at a reasonable location, because the copiest made the same determination I did.
    Further, I believe that the REAL reason the NWT leaves it out is that it would erode the authority of the GB and Elders, who constantly need to reinforce their management authority.
    Like the story of the Quantum Physicist at the Bar, buying drinks for himself and the empty seat beside him, in any analysis of ANYTHING ... I try to ask "What is the most PROBABLE scenario?"
    Opinions and results may differ ....
  7. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    There are two points here. ( although I never use that 'scripture' as I'm not sure eather way but )
    1. Jesus allowed an immoral woman to wash His feet with her tears, then wipre His feet with her hair, then she anointed His feet with oil. Then Jesus said to her "Your sins are forgiven you "  
    2.  The Jewish way of life, The Law, demanded death.  However the New way, through Christ, demanded mercy and forgiveness. Jesus and the disciples never punished anyone by killing them. 
    So Jesus could have saved an adulterous woman. 
     
  8. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Srecko Sostar in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    I am sorry, but wish to react with illustration connected to real JW life. 
    When WTJWorg religious leaders replace one theology with another, then it is also called “loss of credibility”. JW members who reluctantly accept the new theology, along with GB, are losing credibility, too.
    Take for example the teaching of “generation”. From a logical point of view, the previous concept seems more acceptable. You set a chronological reference point (1914), determine the lifespan of a generation (70-80 years), and establish the claim that it is this generation that will not die before the Kingdom is established.
    Now, all JWs (with exceptions, of course) have abandoned their own credibility into a doctrine that had a fundamental value for everyday life, both literal and spiritual. And what have you achieved with that? This is a question you need to think about well.
    "Everyone else in the world" are not so much in lose if few sentences are in the Bible or not or if they don't know how generation issue have new interpretation in JW religion.  
  9. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Witness in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    D. Splane did say that this is war.  Only one side of this war is blessed with Holy Spirit; that is, the side that defends only God’s word – Jesus’ teachings, and God’s sovereignty.  The other side must defend their actions in court, their failed teachings, doctrine of men, their hidden child abuse/spousal abuse, their organization.  How do they defend their “side”?  By telling those associated with them who may have doubts…
    #1 - Be like the Bereans (Acts 17:10,11), which means go to a meeting, get to know the brothers, visit Bethel. Did you notice he never mentioned that the questioning one should research a teaching topic on the website? (such as "this generation" teaching) That would send him into confusion! 
    #2 - Don’t be like Bereans, which means don’t read anything that an “apostate” has to tell you, “to see if this is so”.  Don't believe anything they tell you.  
    There is too much power over others, a cushy life, admiration from followers, earthly motives to expand their empire…all is just too much to lose on the side of the GB.
    I have nothing to lose in this war. 🙂  Mark 8:34-38
     
     

  10. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Pudgy in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    As far as I can tell .... NOBODY.
    Perhaps a more pertinent question would be , to whom would it have been advantageous to misinterpret what Jesus ACTUALLY said to his apostles, in coming up with the silly "Overlappng Generations"?
    Hmmmmmm?
  11. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?   
    Can someone explain to me, to whom would it have been advantageous to insert that piece of writing ?
    'Religions' have always been about control. That piece of writing was concerning forgiveness. Therefore whoever wanted that piece of writing included, wanted forgiveness of sins, as opposed to punishment (by death). 
    Matthew 9 : 13  The words of Jesus 
    Berean Study Bible
    But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
    I am not fighting this battle as to whether it should or should not be included. I am just giving proof that from the time of Jesus Christ living here on this Earth, things changed drastically. They changed from punishment of death, to, mercy and forgiveness shown by God through Jesus Christ. I do agree with Tom, that forgiveness is only possible if the person is repentant. 
  12. Upvote
    Dmitar reacted to Space Merchant in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    Indeed. God has made him the Lord and Christ, and has resurrected him, he  has been made to be immortal, incorruptible, as is being the king above mankind's kings (1 Timothy 6:15, 16).
    In relation to what you addressed, this goes hand in hand with the references to the above verses, which can be found in concerning the church Matthew 16
    18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
  13. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    Simply because the topic was not mainly about Revelation. The topic was about the Watchtower admitting that they got interpretation wrong, therefore they admitted misusing scripture.  In the Watchtower quote that I used about the locusts I cannot see any mention of the Angel of the Abyss. Um, maybe you should be a Watchtower writer, you see to know more than they do. 
    SM, you have great knowledge of scripture and other things. This is your topic here, enjoy it.  
  14. Upvote
    Dmitar got a reaction from Space Merchant in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    *** it-1 p. 12 Abaddon ***
    In the Hebrew scriptures just considered, it is evident that ʼavad·dohnʹ is paralleled with Sheol and death. At Revelation 1:18 we find Christ Jesus stating: “I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.” 
     
    I was afraid. However, Christ holds the keys to the first and second resurrection. That is the theme in Revelation. When Jesus died as a man, he was granted immortality where he cannot be destroyed as an angel, while other angels can.
    Here's an example coming from another Christian interpretation, which Jehovah's Witnesses refine. ETERNITY
    Therefore, the first resurrection is for the people of God; the second resurrection is for the judgment of unbelievers. The difference between these two groups is based on one's relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It is essential for every person to hear the good news and be saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) to receive eternal life (John 3:16).
  15. Like
    Dmitar reacted to Space Merchant in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    First time I have seen you speak your peace. The theme was address already. But of course, in regards to this, there is context and Hermeneutics.
    Abaddon not only have relating Strong's, but also roots, but in regards to who he is in Revelations, is key.
    Speaking of keys, most people do not realize who gave him the key and or where he got it prior to tossing Satan into an abyss for 1,000 years.
  16. Upvote
    Dmitar got a reaction from Space Merchant in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    What is the common theme by different interpretations?
     
    Harper Collins
     
    Abaddon (uh-bad′uhn; Heb., “destruction”).
    1 In the Hebrew Bible, a place of destruction for the dead (Ps. 88:11; Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12; Prov. 15:11). The term is typically regarded as a synonym for Sheol (cf. Prov. 27:20); if there is any distinction, it might be that people are sometimes said to be “brought up” or rescued from Sheol, but never from Abaddon. See also abyss; Sheol.
    2 In the NT, the Hebrew name for the ruler of the Abyss, whose Greek name was Apollyon, “the Destroyer” (Rev. 9:11). See also abyss; Apollyon.
    Apollyon (uh-pol′yuhn; Gk., “the destroyer”), a possible allusion to the Greek god Apollo or, perhaps, to the angel of death (Rev. 9:11). See also Abaddon.
     
    Catholic Bible Dictionary
     
    ABADDON (Hebrew, “destruction”) The name is used with several meanings. These include ruin and destruction in a broad sense (Job 31:12), a place of destruction, and the abyss in the sense of the abode of the dead (Job 26:6; Prov 15:11). Other references are found in Psalms (88:11) and Job (28:22). Abaddon is personified in the New Testament (Rev 9:11, presented in the Greek as Apollyōn) as an angel with authority over hell. Abaddon in this sense is the ruler and author of havoc and destruction on earth. (See also Asmodeus and Sheol.)
     
    Oxford Dictionary of the Bible
     
    Abaddon
     
    In Hebrew = destruction, and in Job 26: 6 and Prov. 27: 20 denotes the abode of the dead, also called sheol or Hades. In Rev. 9: 11 it is personified to mean the destroyer of all life and peace.
     
     
    Abyss
     
    The depths of the sea. Because the Hebrews disliked the sea (cf. Rev. 21: 1), deep waters were regarded as the abode of demons. It was the appropriate destiny for the Gadarene swine when the demons had entered into them (Luke 8: 31, 33), and from the abyss antichrist will rise (Rev. 11: 7). In Rom. 10: 7 Paul refers to sheol, the abode of the dead, as ‘the Abyss’, which he seems to take from Ps. 71: 20 (‘earth's watery depths’, REB).
     
    The New Unger's Bible Dictionary
     
    ABAD´DON (a-badʹdon; Gk. Abaddon, “destruction”). The angel of the bottomless
    pit (Rev. 9:11), and corresponding to Apollyon, “destroyer.” The word abaddon
    means destruction (Job 31:12), or the place of destruction, i.e., Hades or the region of
    the dead (Job 26:6; 28:22; Prov. 15:11).
     
    Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary
     
    ABADDON  Name meaning “to perish.” In the KJV Abaddon appears only in Rev. 9:11 as the Hebrew name of the angel of the bottomless pit whose Greek name was Apollyon. Abaddon occurs six times in the Hebrew Bible (Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12; Prov. 15:11; 27:20; Ps. 88:11). The KJV and NIV translate Abaddon as “destruction,” while the NASB and RSV retain the word “Abaddon.” See Hell.
  17. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    You were totally off topic, because the TOPIC was about the misuse of scriptures by the Watchtower... 
    And the GB / Watchtower admitted they were wrong.  Truther ? You can't even tell the truth here. I would think you are a laughing stock amongst real Truthers. 
  18. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Abaddon, also known as Apollyon - The Angel of the Abyss   
    The other thread was locked because you were off topic and just trying to get attention for yourself  
  19. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in NWT KINGDOM INTERLINEAR TRANSLATION OF THE GREEK SCRIPTURES. 1985   
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/kingdom-interlinear-greek-translation/books/
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/
    I am using the 1985 version of this Interlinear Greek translation by Watchtower, and I'm wondering if there is an updated version or a better version I could be using.  I have hard copy of this, but also I found one on the JW Org website but it didn't have a date of publication, so i don't know if it's a newer one. 
    Also is there a Watchtower approved translation of the Hebrew scriptures ?
    A couple of points though.
    As you will know I believe the scriptures are for the 'true' Anointed and that when Jesus is ready (Jesus has all authority) He will provide Holy Spirit to those of the remnant to guide God's people to truth. 
    Secondly, the words of Jesus recorded Matthew 11 : 25
    Berean Study Bible
    At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
    My thinking runs in line with this scripture above. That God reveals the meaning of scripture to whom HE chooses, and that Jesus now does the same. 
    Hence with all the deep discussion on this forum and those on here that consider themselves wise and learned, I tend to think that no matter how much research one does, and how much one studies languages ect, only God through Christ will give true knowledge. 
    However that does not mean i should be lazy or not study God's word. What it means to me is that I should not expect to understand too much or too deeply. 
    Hence, back to the point, Interlinear Translations that can be trusted ????? And the most up to date ? 
    All information welcome, thank you. 
    Oh and to confess, I still haven't learnt to use Strong's properly yet, but I keep trying.  
  20. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Space Merchant in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    The Locust term is used for not only used for God's people, but was also used for Babylonian army of old. One of the reasons why some of the verses interconnect (from both Joel and Revelations) with each other is due to how Locust are, they do not come as one, two or a few, but a swarm:

    Christians early on assume the Locusts in Revelations to represent the enemy and or demons, which is in similarity as to how Bible students viewed it early on as did most, even connecting Joel and Revelations at times, however, some after learning, people came to a conclusion in their understanding of things to know who Revelations speaks of, granted the Locust and regards to Joel concerning Babylonians. In Revelations, those who represent the Locusts not only come out of the abyss, they are to finish the gospel work, and proclaim judgement. The way I see it, people's view back then was different due to how the Locust Army seen in Revelations looks like, not knowing that this is a symbolic representation.
    The only group who speaks of the Locusts as enemies, even equating Joel to Revelations as identical are anything who shares the same mindset as most Trinitarians. There are other views, which are somewhat nonsensical, and very far from the truth, which some believe today sadly.
    For us Biblical Unitarians, we at a time thought of the Locust as Satan's Army against God at a time, ignoring the symbolic representation and took what was said literally, hence the speculation that the horde of demonic locusts, only later to know the true representation.
    That being said, people who come to learn and understand what a passage or verse is conveying, it shows that such ones are slowly learning as to what is true; and whatever old reasoning that they had that was not correct, for after learning, they see. If the JW pastor were to continue living, it is by no doubt he would come to that conclusion himself. It is also how they operate due to what Butler linked from the JW website, for the first paragraphs pretty much explains how Christians were back then compared to now, they had to collect findings.
    Before the update of this forums, @The Librarian had a list of things concerning how Bible Students, well into JWs come to learn of their findings, you can check it out down here. It will be somewhat difficult because the responses are from the same usual suspects:
     
  21. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Thinking in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    May I ask your view on the locusts in.  Revelation….Russell seems to have had the correct view In Joel..many years ago….some where along the line that was changed to represent Us….which never made any sense to me…so I’m relieved we have corrected that..yet we still claim the locusts in Rev are still talking about us.
    yet Russell thought they were the same as Joel…..I am confused on this point..yet aware….that the bow and arrow…horses…crowns..etc all have and do have double meanings..and are interchangeable….with those who are against Jehovah ..and those who are with Jehovah…so it may be the case here….
  22. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Space Merchant in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    The Angel of the Abyss is in relation to the Locusts mentioned in the Scriptures, mainly Joel and Revelations.
    Asking WHO this angel is, isn't going off topic or trolling. A troll is someone who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages.
    After all, you mentioned me, so here I am.
    Again, you already addressed the NAME, but in order to know if there is misuse of Scripture, we need to know WHO this angel is.
    If we are to as you said [Can we please set matters straight about the wrong use of scripture. ] then let's us get down to the Truth here concerning the Locust.
  23. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    Once again the Storm Trooper demads answers  He asked a question and I gave him an answer.
    But note that I told him 'That's all ya gettin'.  One jump ahead, because I knew he would demand more  .
    Unfortunately I think SM is now being a Troll, deliberately trying to throw things off topic. 
  24. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    ABADDON
    (A·badʹdon) [from Heb., meaning “Destruction”].
    At Revelation 9:11 this Hebrew word is transliterated into the English text. There we read concerning the symbolic plague of locusts that they have “a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” 
    That's all ya gettin'.  
  25. Downvote
    Dmitar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in DRAGGING UP OLD NEWS BUT STILL SOME JWs and others, DON'T BELIEVE, LOCUSTS & SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.. WERE WRONGLY USED BY WATCHTOWER   
    The information i have given was only available in April 2020 Study Watchtower.  I have given a link to the source. 
     
     
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