Chioke Lin

1 minute ago, Witness said:

"Now when it was noon (the sixth hour), darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. (the ninth hour)

Thank you for the confirmation. I'm going by memory. 

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

Sheol, Hades, the abyss are not a place of protection, but of darkness and "not perceiving".  I'm not sure why you would say that it was a place of protection for Jesus, when the "King of the abyss", of darkness, is Satan. 

Would you suggest, Jesus shouldn't have been protected from Satan, and evil ones wishing to do harm to his body?

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

He was buried the same day that he died.  Looking at more scriptures to reason on this, If the Passover meal is eaten after sundown, then that is when Jesus memorialized the supper with his disciples.

Perhaps you can help me understand. Jesus had the meal with the apostles. Then, Judas went to betray him. After, around midnight, Jesus was arrested by the pharisees. He was taken to Herod, which refused to condemn him. He was then taken to Pilate, who refused to take the case because he was a Jew. So, Jesus could not be charged for blasphemy. During the day, Herod sent him back to Pilate to charge Jesus for sedition. Conspiring to overthrow the Roman kingdom. Pilate accepted that charge under Roman law. 

He had Jesus whipped, and later sentenced to death. Wasn't that all withing the same day using sunset to sunrise concept. When Jesus was crucified, that would have been the start of the following day at sunset. Isn't Sunset to the Jews around 3 o'clock, by our time?

1 hour ago, BroRando said:

Hell (“Sheol” and “Hades” in the Bible’s original languages) is simply the grave, not a place of fiery torment. 

I'm asking everyone to have patience with my English. Maybe, I'm not using the correct words for what I mean to say. I agree, it is a grave. Does this mean, "hell" cannot be seen, when a person is tortured, like Jesus was? In Jesus case, I believe, Sheol, Hell, mean a place of protection from Satan and evil ones under the cover of a grave or burial.

21 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Some people may believe that whilst He was 'dead', Yeshua (Jesus) went down in to 'hell' and spoke to  wicked spirits that were in prison there. 

I do not believe this myself. 

I'll accept your point that Jesus wasn't speaking with evil spirits. I think, "Sheol" would have the same effect as "hell." They are a place of protection from evil ones. 

Thank you for the text. 

On 6/18/2022 at 9:27 PM, Witness said:

I don't quite understand what you are asking.  Are you referring to the time Jesus was a prisoner to be interrogated, or are you talking about his time in the abyss/the "heart of the earth"?  (Jonah 2:2; Rom 10:7; 1 Pet 3:18-20; 2 Pet 2:4)

Hello, commentator.

Wouldn't that be co-linked because of the sunset and sunrise concept? Would it be any different if we use the same concept for Jesus death? When he died, it was the last part of the preparation day, evening time. That means, Jesus would have been buried sometime before midnight, or soon after midnight. So, wouldn't that indicate, he did die on the Jewish Calendar 14 of Nisan?

Please forgive me. Maybe I'm not using the correct English words for my comments. Thursday/Friday-Friday/Saturday-Saturday/Sunday.

Yes, I would like to see your view on the "heart of the earth" where Jesus was protected. Does this mean, he wasn't died for those 3 days? 

23 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You can begin the start of his judgment then if you wish, but the sign of Jonah was that he was in "Sheol" for three days and three nights. Christians saw no need to take this to any kind of literal count of hours. The very fact that it could apply when Jesus may have been in Sheol for only two nights is good evidence that there was no good reason to try to count the exact hours to make something spiritually significant out of them.

To me, Sheol means suspended and protected, just as Jesus was in "hell" for those 3 days. A condition. Meaning, his judgment of torture began soon after his arrest, and then he became protected after death. Protected from whom, Satan and anyone wanting to do evil with Jesus body.

I agree, the 3 days and 3 nights is an idiomatic phrase. Does that mean "Jesus" was not dead for 3 days as indicated by the phrase, "heart of the earth?" Why would the bible reference, he was risen on the third day, according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Can it be these two debates are separate? The 3 days and nights, and the 40 hours, that are part of those 3 days.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You start your week on a Monday ?  The week has always started on a Sunday and ended on a Saturday. 

Saturday was always the Sabbath, even though we do not keep it now. 

I see your point. Yes, the Jews start their week on Sunday under our current calendar. Yom Rishon First Day (Sunday)

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Yes -  I do see the pattern of the purification and cleansing of the number 40.  It rained 40 days and nights to clean the earth during the flood ... and there are many other examples. ......BUT..... Jesus was perfect - he needed no cleansing or purification. .

Does this mean, the ritual of purification was suspended because of Jesus? Luke 2:22

I'm enjoying everyone's comments. With what I see, there is no right or wrong answer with this discussion of the 3 days and 3 nights with that of Christ internment time. 

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

If someone dies on Friday afternoon and they are buried that Friday night, then the night of the first day is completed on Saturday. The night of the second day is therefore begun on the next night, Saturday night, and completed on the dawn of that second day which is Sunday morning. The night of the third day, would have been completed, therefore on Monday morning.

Would this only apply if you started with a Christian tradition rather than what the bible indicates?

I see you are using the sunrise, sunset concept. How about dusk to dawn, which is a shorter time period.

If Jesus judgment started on midnight Thursday, then midnight Saturday, Sunday would complete the 3 day and night cycle. Sunday after dawn which is the start of the week, as you mention, like Monday for us and Sunday for the Jews.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

With respect to this time period, the only tradition that we know that the early Christians held onto was the idea that it was like the sign of Jonah which was parts of 3 days and 3 nights.

Doesn't Matthew also state the same? Shouldn't the betrayal and arrest of Jesus be the start of his judgment? Which would be included in those 3 days and nights. The start of the Jewish week which is Sunday when Mary went to check on the tomb, Jesus was no longer there. So, it's true, no one saw Jesus resurrection. Does the beginning of the week place an important time to the 3 days and night, since the night on the third day would have been completed, before dawn.

I go back to my original question? Is the discussion referring to the 3 days and night, or the interment time of Christ. Aren't those two different or the same to fulfil the 3 days and night, according to the bible, not Christian tradition.

4 hours ago, BroRando said:

The 40 pattern represents 'a time' of cleansing, refinement, testing, and purification. It can be rendered in hours, days, or years.  Also... when the 40 pattern is applied three times, it is significantly heightened in importance.  Jesus entered this pattern three times during his time upon the earth.

Isn't the purification, a ritual under the law of Moses for atonement?

I appreciate all the answers. The problem I seem to have is between, the acknowledgment of the 3 days and nights with the internment of Christ that was much less time. 

I can see the bible speaks correctly when it states a period of 3 days and nights by which Jesus took up his judgment, execution, and burial. It would appear, the 40 hours of internment would have no discrepancy when it is all placed together to form all those 3 days and nights.

2 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

Remember, too, that Jesus initiated this observance and then died on the Jewish calendar date of Nisan 14

The calendar date for 33CE does fall on 14th of Nisan. That would make the preparation day on Friday for the Sabbath Festival. Does this mean, Jesus last supper was on Friday? 

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I don't quite understand what you are asking.  Are you referring to the time Jesus was a prisoner to be interrogated, or are you talking about his time in the abyss/the "heart of the earth"? 

The heart of the earth is what it would imply, time on earth. This would indicate, the time Jesus spent anguishing over his judgment and death. I guess the question is, is the bible referring to the full 3 days, or is, this discussion debating about the internment time of Christ? Jonas and Matthew are specific to the 3 days and 3 nights. This would indicate, Jesus wasn't interred the full 3 days, but in combination with his judgment, it would make those 3 days full.

The day prior, which is referred to the preparation day, consist of just making ready for the Sabbath festival. 

1 hour ago, Witness said:

There really isn't a discrepancy.  It probably helps to know that Jesus didn't die on Nisan 14, but the "Day of Preparation", the day before. ( Mark 15:42,43; Luke 23:53,54; John 19:41,42) Jesus was already buried before the Passover Sabbath.  

Thank you. The discrepancy I'm referring to is with the hours that the discussion seems to be concerned with. Sorry for my bad English. 

Jesus last supper would have been in Yom R’vi’i. This would make it on a Wednesday night. Then morning (dawn) came, which should still be Wednesday. After dawn, or light, that should have started Yom Chamishi or Thursday. Since the bible speaks of full days and nights, then, Thursay, Friday, and Saturday would have been the full 3 days. On the first day of the week which is Sunday would have been when the Angel told Mary, Jesus wasn't in the tomb at dawn Yom Rishon. Matthew 28:1

This brings up another question. Is the bible talking about the internment of Christ, or is it referring to the complete subjection Christ was placed before, for judgment? 

Matthew 12:40 refers to "heart of the earth," day to day. Meaning full days. 

Can you explain, then, the discrepancy in the discussion with the bible?

Jonah 1:

 17 Now the LORD had appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of the fish.

Matthew 12:

39 Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

I'm trying to understand the discussion about the 40 hours in the theory of time and prophecy.

Can anyone explain why this couldn't be seen as the 40 days Jesus fasted in Matthew 4:2 to correspond to 40 hours of Jesus internment in a 3-day span?

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

The letter w and V is pronounced the same in some languages.  And J and Y is pronounced the same. Different letters are used for the same SOUNDS. 

Just as J and Y  is pronounced the same in some languages.   So different languages use different letters for the exact same sound. 

If I understand it correctly, there is no error with either form because of the vocalization of the letters by language. Thank you.

Can anyone explain where the Vatican church got the “W” from? Can anyone explain how God's name sounded in song in ancient Hebrew?

Where did the tetragrammaton originate from YHWH if there is no W? Yahweh

Hay-Vav-Hay-Yud

Yud-Hay-Vav-Hay

In Hebrew.

If the English name of god is wrong, can someone explain why the tetagrammaton shouldn’t?

English is not my first language.