John 12.24to28

If your enemy tells you to jump off a high mountain, you're going to do it and love that person until you reach your certain death. Now, you know that's not true, @boyle! I love the GB and the elder body, but when the GB and the elder body tell me to do all kinds of stupid unscriptural things then I won't listen!😆

Why don't you 'splane it to me?😁(Unless it's something I've already herd...)😆

His is, not ours. When we walk, we take many false steps. We can't compare ourselves with a perfect being. Of course, that's why we walk With God.🙂He holds our hand, if we ask Him to. (That's why we have to be like a little kid inside, in our hearts, in order to understand what it's like.) "Even there your hand would lead me And your right hand would take hold of me." "Do not be afraid, for I am with you. Do not be anxious, for I am your God. I will fortify you, yes, I will help you, I will really hold on to you with my right hand of righteousness." "For I, Jehovah your God, am grasping your right hand, The One saying to you, ‘Do not be afraid. I will help you."

Not close enough for us mortals. We can't pretend or have fantasy about it. Well, you could, but it still wouldn't be real. I wish I could open your eyes. I can't, but there is someone who can. They will be open someday. How beautiful!🤩 (I will remind you in that day how you used to tell me it was just fantasy😆)

Are you a vegetarian? Yet, what political cards are you talking about? Are you saying the Watchtower has their own political cards? You're loosing me. The Watchtower makes rules about political party cards, tells people not to get involved in social issues, and not to vote in elections. Whether or not someone did any of those things is a matter for personal review. The Bible gives principles that a person would have to weigh out in their individual circumstance. Sometimes it might be a sin for a person to get involved in one of those things. Sometimes it might be a sin for a person to refrain from getting involved in one of those things. Here's how this "no part of the world" misapplication gets extended..."I can't help you, because I'm neutral." Have you ever heard someone make that excuse in the congregation? I have. It's similar to when the Pharisees said, "I'm sorry" to their needy parent "I can't help you because what I have that could have helped you is dedicated to God, it's corban." The GB/Watchtower/Bethel made up a rule so that they don't have to help. The "I'm neutral" cop-out gets used in congregational issues where a mature person could have helped someone in need but chose instead to let their love go cold.

Not worship. That's the wrong term. Following men, that's the correct ideology. What does scripture say that you are always pointing it out, about following men? Does your definition defer from the rest of the world when it suits your purpose? "Following men" vs "not following men" is a different issue. Being "no part of the world" is not the same issue. Watchtower says that "being no part of the world" is about being Neutral. They are not correct. The Bible shows that "being no part of the world" is about having a Loving Heart as opposed to a dark heart.

I mentioned it in the past. If you have prime real estate that is perfect, by all means share. I'm trying - heaven is perfect and it's close - but I can't make anybody open their eyes, little kitten, until that person is ready. God's love is perfect. When we walk in the light of His face, the Love from Him, we are in that "prime real estate" place. "Happy are the people who know the joyful shouting. O Jehovah, they walk in the light of your face." God is Love and Light. "“You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Heaven, the perfect place, is a place close by, when we are close to Him by means of connection with Him, by means of that spirit, Love. His spirit is like our lifeblood, the spirit of Love. We keep begging Him for that spirit, and when we open ourselves up to it, then we are in that "prime real estate" place, no matter where we are physically on earth. I keep telling you that, but someday I won't have to tell you, @boyle, because you'll already know. 🙂💖

Jesus didn't say people couldn't vote. The Bible says to be in subjection to the governmental authorities. If someone impresses you into service one mile, go two. Many governments utilize the voting process. Putting a ballot in a box is not an act of worship. Choosing one official over another for a position in the government is not an act of worship. The first century governing body said, "abstain from blood, immorality, and what is strangled." There was nothing there about political party cards.

Another thing, the Kingdom didn't start ruling in 1914. So even if someone had a political party card, that wouldn't be a conflict of interest since the Kingdom wasn't reigning yet anyway. (It'll be a different story once Jesus takes the throne in heaven, but there is no evidence that's happened yet.)

I will try, @boyle 🙂... "Do not love either the world or the things in the world" He wasn't talking about loving politics or not loving politics. "World" doesn't mean "politics". "the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever" the World here is contrasted with the Will of God the Will of God is that we Love on another and Love God "See what sort of love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are. That is why the world does not know us, because it has not come to know him. Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is. And everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as that one is pure." God is Love. The World doesn't know Jehovah's kids because Jehovah's kids are loving like their Father Jehovah. "The world does not know us" isn't about politics. "No part of the world" isn't about politics. It doesn't have anything to do with neutrality or politics. It has to do with Love.

I have to do a couple things but I will be back in a bit...in the meantime, what were you mentioning about a Codex in the other thread? As far as the Watchtower and neutrality, there was a talk in a broadcast a few years ago by David Schafer and also a symposium a couple years ago with a video of three people who said they were "no part of the world" because they didn't get involved in social issues. I can find them and put the links here if you want for comparison.

Yeah, I didn't think so🙂

GB/Bethel teaches that "being no part of the world" has to do with something called "Neutrality". The word "Neutrality" is not found anywhere in the NWT. What do the scriptures say regarding the "world"? "If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you." The men who Jesus was talking to in that conversation, those who were chosen out of the world, were not formerly politicians. They did not vote. They did not have a political party card. So why would "being taken out of the world" mean not voting, not being a politician, or not having a political party card? "I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. “I do not request that you take them out of the world, but that you watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth. Just as you sent me into the world, I also sent them into the world. And I am sanctifying myself in their behalf, so that they also may be sanctified by means of truth." What was Jehovah's word that Jesus gave them? Was Jehovah's word "don't vote" or "abstain from politics" or "be neutral in political issues"? No. Jesus didn't say those things were the word from Jehovah. What was the word from Jehovah? The command to Love. Satan hates those who show love. Satan is not loving. His world is not loving. "Jesus answered: “My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”" Jesus' example shows us that it is wise to abstain from political involvement. However, the phrase "no part of this world" refers not to abstaining from the politics of the world, but to abstaining from having the attitude of the worldly ruler. The apostle John sheds more light on this in his first letter. "Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever." In context John talks about the world being in darkness. The world has a lack of love. (This isn't in the sense that the organization uses the word "worldly". People who are not Jehovah's Witnesses can have great love and affection. By "world" here it means Satan's way of doing things.) John explains that "Antichrists" were part of the arrangement of love in the congregation but went out from it, in their hearts. Such ones are part of the world in that the dominant inclination of their hearts is not loving, even if they are physically still in the literal congregation arrangement. Being "part of the world" means doing things the way Satan would and for the reasons Satan would - for showy display, for prominence, for selfish reasons, for fleshly satisfaction at the cost of others' well-being. John was talking, not about people that were never "Jehovah's Witnesses", so-called "worldly people". John's counsel was for those who claimed to be God's Name People but who chose to "serve" for the wrong reasons - showy display, desire of the flesh, and desire of eyes. John (and other Bible writers) were saying that there would be some in the congregation who "serve" for these wrong reasons - in effect, being part of the world of the wicked one. "Furthermore, God made you alive, though you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience." "The world" Jesus was talking about is not specifically politics. It doesn't have to do with "neutrality". It has to do with a lack of love. Being "no part of the world" means doing things motivated by love, like Jesus did. (John 15:19)(John 17:14-19)(John 18:36)(1 John 2:15-17)(Ephesians 2:1,2)

"I need not be considered"...let's look at Jehovah's Words💖

Outwardly, no! Mentally, well, you'll never tell. But we both know even if it's denied. I already told you I'm not scared of you. I like talking to you.🙂

😆 That's funny, especially coming from you! ☺️ (Does anybody here even know your real name?)

Well, didn't some governments try to destroy copies of the scriptures afterwards? When the nations attack religion, surely they will also target copies of the scriptures. Thankfully, governments cannot remove God's commandments from our hearts. Well, it hasn't happened yet, obviously! You won't have to ask me when it happens, you'll see for yourself. (There is a reason the vision in Revelation has "thunder" and "lightning" as some of the descriptors of God's judgments against false religion.) When did I challenge God's commandment? God commands us to Love. I love talking about love. Do you want me to talk about Love some more?🥰 (It is one of my favorite topics.) He didn't, @boyle, it must just your point of view is off kilter.🙂 You are taller than me, remember. (I am lowly, my brother, like near the dirt. I'm afraid of heights.) I don't remember you ever scaring me, and as for seeing my inner self, there's not much to see. I'm just me. I don't really know what you mean about "deeds being prophetically false". And I know Jehovah is pleased with me even though I am imperfect and make lots of mistakes. I do pray to bring comfort and joy to Jehovah's heart, since His heart has had to endure more pain than anybody else, and I know I am just little but even little things can bring people joy sometimes. (My brother @boyle, what brings you joy?) I am one of Jehovah's witnesses. Does the Bethel Family consider Jehovah to be a questionable person? Does the GB consider Jehovah to be a questionable person? (I already know the answer to that question. 😆 I think you know too.) This implies no one knows what that means. Even non-believers have contributed to the shaping of language and meaning behind words and phrases. Do you have a better system of interpretation you care to share? Yes, the one in the Bible, but is it appropriate to post here on this thread, or should we start a new one for that topic? You know better than me, I am newer to forum etiquette.

Esther worked with a "worldly" government. Mordecai worked with a "worldly" government. Daniel worked with a "worldly" government. Nehemiah worked with a "worldly" government. Joseph worked with a "worldly" government. They had positions of authority in those governments. Is it wrong for witnesses to work with the governments when it is in accord with Jehovah's will? The Bible is clear. Being "no part of the world" is not what they think it means at Bethel.

Jesus said "pay back Caesar's things to Caesar but God's things to God." I support Jehovah's government. "We must obey God as ruler rather than man" when men ask us to do things against Jehovah, but other than that we obey the secular authorities. The Kingdom isn't ruling in heaven yet. The Kingdom isn't ruling on earth yet. Jesus told us to work with the governmental authorities to the degree possible - not compromising our integrity, but going two miles if they ask us to go one. I agree with Jehovah's Work. Speaking of Jehovah's Work, this is what Isaiah says: ""Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Here I am laying as a foundation in Zion a tested stone, The precious cornerstone of a sure foundation. No one exercising faith will panic." During the attack on religion, those who keep following Jesus' counsel will be okay. "And I will make justice the measuring line And righteousness the leveling tool. The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, And the waters will flood out the hiding place." The plagues of Revelation are figurative. The "hail", the "flood" here...it's figurative judgment on all religious institutions. This verse in Isaiah was referring specifically to God's Name People. Jehovah's Witnesses today are God's Name People. The "hail" will sweep away the refuge of lies. The wolves will be "flushed" out of their hiding places in the organization. The Flood of Noah's day is a guarantee that there will be no one bad left able to "hide" in the organization. They will all be flooded out. Jesus guarantees it. "Your covenant with Death will be dissolved, And your agreement with the Grave will not stand. When the raging flash flood passes through, You will be crushed by it. As often as it passes through, It will sweep you away; For it will pass through morning after morning, During the day and during the night." Most of the men taking the lead at Bethel think they have God's backing even though they are allowing terrible things, God-dishonoring things. The disfellowshipping doctrine is just one of those things. They don't really have a figurative "covenant with Death" as they're about to find out. (Remember that horseman in Revelation with the Pale Horse and the Grave following close behind? Many of the false doctrines are going to be shown to be figuratively dead. Many of the leaders are going to be shown to be spiritually dead. Jesus will shine the light at the appointed time.) "Only terror will make them understand what was heard.” They have been warned of all these things at Bethel, but they refuse to listen. Jehovah warned them, but they made their hearts hard. Jehovah has allowed them to be spiritually asleep. They will not understand until it happens. "For the bed is too short to stretch out on, And the woven sheet is too narrow to wrap up in. For Jehovah will rise up as at Mount Pe·raʹzim; He will rouse himself as in the valley near Gibʹe·on, That he may do his deed—his strange deed— And that he may carry out his work—his unusual work." Jehovah will make it happen. "Now do not scoff, So that your bonds may not be further tightened, For I have heard from the Sovereign Lord, Jehovah of armies, That an extermination has been determined for all the land. Give ear and listen to my voice; Pay attention and listen to what I say." It is as good as done. (Isaiah 28:16-23) "Repent! For the Kingdom of the Heavens has drawn near!" Hopefully when they wake up they will repent. Jesus is coming soon to clean house.

When God's Name People were unfaithful, Jehovah allowed the governments of the nations to remove the places of worship, because Jehovah's Name People were bringing reproach on God's Name. Even though God had commanded the temple to be used in worship, Jehovah allowed the temple to be removed by the governments of the nations. The disfellowshipping doctrine as practiced is not bringing glory to Jehovah, it is bringing reproach on Him, just like when the Jews misused the temple for selfish purposes. Jehovah tells us in His Word to be a clean people, but the scriptures cherry-picked to support the disfellowshipping doctrine are applied out of context and with non-Biblical additives like Pharisaical counsels and added rules. And it's not just that doctrine, but a whole collection of false doctrines. Certain members of the organization have misused the congregation arrangement for their own glorification and selfish purposes, just like the scribes and Pharisees and unfaithful ones of old. Jehovah has not changed. He will do His "strange deed". It will seem strange to those in the organization when the Bethels are the first places attacked at the beginning of the great tribulation to come. It shouldn't seem strange to them, because it's the same way Jehovah allowed it to play out before. But He's allowed them to be asleep. They'll wake up.

The government stopped Jesus from worshipping Jehovah for a few days once.

I'll try, my brother, I'll try. 🙂

You won't find one here among your friends. Halon's Razor principle number two. Oh, @boyle, you shouldn't put yourself down that way. I think you're very smart. (And when I said "good night, friend" last night, you are the one who answered...☺️)

Jehovah is bigger than the government. When it's Jehovah's time to remove something, it doesn't matter what the government's stance is on it. The angels have been holding back the governments from attacking religion for a long time. The angels have been exercising a restraint, holding them back. When it's the appointed time, they are going to let go of that restraint. "After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree." "Untie the four angels who are bound at the great river Eu·phraʹtes." (Just as the Euphrates River protected the ancient city of Babylon, so some governments have been protecting religion. That protection will soon be removed.) "And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time." "True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way." Revelation 7:1 Revelation 9:14 Revelation 16:2 2 Thessalonians 2:6,7 When the winds are let go, the nations will attack. All false religious teachings will be removed, both inside and outside the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. Praise Jehovah.

The Jews were commanded to worship at the temple. Who tore that temple down?