John 12.24to28

5 minutes ago, boyle said:

You need to prove you have genuine repentance.

Jesus said even if a person comes back seven times a day and say "I repent" to forgive him. Jesus didn't say "hold a judicial committee, then wait a week to make an announcement, then give the person a year not talking to them..." Nope. Those things are all man-made doctrines. Jesus was clear and simple with his instruction. The Pharisees liked to make everything complicated.

2 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Now, if you could change your font color to black, and bold, and up it one size, these old 76 year old eyes could read what you have written with a lot less work.

 

I can't do much, but I can make that happen!☺️

(At least I can on future posts.🙂)

There! @Pudgy @Witness scriptures cited 🙂

Scriptures Cited on Page 10 of this thread...

Figuratively "buy" truth: Proverbs 23:23

GB not interested in "buying" truth right now: John 9:41

Faithful anointed ones will follow Jesus no matter what flack they get for it: Revelation 14:4

Many true witnesses of Jehovah, including creation: Romans 1:20

Zeal for Jehovah: Psalm 69:9; Psalm 119:139

Jesus' approval manifest: John 14:20; John 15:5

Scriptures Cited on Page 11 of this thread...

Some elders are figuratively bloodthirsty: Proverbs 30:14

Faithful ones in the congregations throughout the world have suffered in the same way at the hands of some of the bad elders: 1 Peter 5:9

Jehovah sees and He will exterminate those causing and allowing such awful harm to others: Isaiah 28:22

Jesus gives us the words when we need them: Luke 21:13-15

24 minutes ago, boyle said:

Doing good. Just finishing up a few theological elements. I was just thinking of this.

I guess the more logical term for the disfellowshiped and apostates are:

BGT  1 Corinthians 5:13 τοὺς δὲ ἔξω ὁ θεὸς κρινεῖ. ἐξάρατε τὸν πονηρὸν ἐξ ὑμῶν αὐτῶν. (1 Cor. 5:13 BGT)

NAS  1 Corinthians 5:13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. (1 Cor. 5:13 NAS) 

Meaning from the Christian Congregation where Jesus is the Head.

Danker, Greek NT Lexicon (DAN)

[DANK] ἐξαίρω

ἐξαίρω [ἐξ, αἴρω] remove, put out 1 Cor 5:2 v.l., 13.

To conform to the context of: Expel the immoral brother, it should be removed.

So, the D”fd will be "the expelled," and apostates will be former members.

I think that is a fair assessment. What do you think, Audrey?

I like that you looked at the Greek words.

Most of the time in the first century congregation, the friends were meeting in small groups in homes. There wouldn't be a "judicial committee" because there would be no need for one. Everybody would already know if someone was living immorally, like they did with the fellow Paul wrote about. People who owned the home could just not admit the person until they remedied the situation. Here is what Jesus said about that:

"Then Peter came and said to him: “Lord, how many times is my brother to sin against me and am I to forgive him? Up to seven times?”  Jesus said to him: “I say to you, not up to seven times, but up to 77 times."

"Even if he sins seven times a day against you and he comes back to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him."

They could "expel" the immoral person from their home or gathering, but if he said "I'm sorry" they should talk to him. Jesus said so.

(Matthew 18:21,22; Luke 17:4)

Scriptures Cited on Page 7 of this thread...

True worshippers must stay in union with Christ: John 15:1-10

Verse about Putin coming to his end: Daniel 11:44,45

Jesus taking throne during the time of Putin's demise: Daniel 12:1

Great tribulation lasts 3 1/2 years: Daniel 12:6,7; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 8:23-25; Luke 21:24; Revelation 11:2; Revelation 12:14

Anointed ones in union with Christ don't cut others off, they beg others to become reconciled to God: 2 Corinthians 5:20

Jehovah always tells ahead of time what He will do: Isaiah 46:10; Amos 3:7

Scriptures Cited on Page 8 of this thread...

Not eating Memorial celebration with unrepentant wrongdoer: 1 Corinthians 5:4-11

Not worshipping alongside a person who rejects what Christ taught about love, not saying "good job" when such a person teaches lies or going along with the lie in order to worship together: 2 John 6-11

Jesus said to greet even sinners: Matthew 5:47

Jehovah's way is refreshing: Hosea 6:3; Isaiah 26:19; Zechariah 8:12

Scriptures Cited on Page 9 of this thread...

Jehovah protected Adam and Eve physically with garments: Genesis 3:21

We must imitate Jehovah's love in caring even for wicked ones: Matthew 5:43-48

Love is patient: 1 Corinthians 13:4; James 5:7; 1 Thessalonians 2:7,8

Life can change quickly: James 4:14,17

Sometimes we understand more later: John 13:7; Acts 10:28

Showing undeserved kindness to others: Philippians 4:23

Scriptures Cited on Page 6 of this thread...

The Revelation was for God's friends to understand what is coming: Revelation 1:1-3

Jesus loves people and wants them to have life: Revelation 3:19; Revelation 22:17

Putin coming to his end and Jesus taking throne in heaven: Daniel 11:44,45; Daniel 12:1

Jesus kicks Satan out of heaven: Revelation 12:7-12

GB not expecting what is coming because they think Satan was already cast down in 1914: 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6

Great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years: Revelation 12:12-14; Daniel 12:6,7

Spiritual food means following and obeying Jesus, not false doctrines of men: 1 Corinthians 10:1-4

The illustration about "faithful slave" is just about keeping on the watch, not about a title: Matthew 24:42-51

John told of an elder who removed people from the congregation and said it was not a good thing: 3 John 9,10

How are you? I hope you're having a nice evening.☺️

Hi, @boyle! 

Scriptures Cited on Page 5 of this thread...

Attack of UN on all false religious institutions: Revelation 9:1-11

Locusts in Joel's prophecy were soldiers from pagan nations used by God to attack Jehovah's Name People for their disobedience and wickedness and abuse of others: Joel 1:1-20, 2:1-11

The "star" that falls, also called the king of the locusts and Abaddon/Apollyon is Satan: Revelation 12:3,4; Joshua 22:20; Joshua 7:26 footnote "Achor"; John 17:12

Governing body is asleep to the coming destruction on the organization: 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-13

The GB didn't obey Jesus' direction: Luke 22:25,26; Mark 10:42-44

Another plague will be hail, in past hail was described as coming upon unfaithful ones in God's organization for their refusal to do good, because they abused others and did other naughty things while claiming to represent Jehovah: Isaiah 28:1-29

The figurative hail in Revelation will do the same, clear away the lies and make clear Jehovah's anger on those bloodguilty ones who falsely claimed to represent Him: Revelation 8:7

Jehovah allowed the nations to destroy the physical parts of His Name People in the past because of them allowing abuse and doing other really bad things while claiming to represent Jehovah: 2 Chronicles 36:19; Lamentations 1:1-22; 2:1-22

Jehovah has not changed, He will again cleanse His Name People by allowing the nations to be the instrument of His wrath against the bad stuff going on in the organization: Isaiah 28:21; Jeremiah 2:11; Malachi 3:6

Wickedness will be taken out of God's Name People: Zechariah 5:5-11; Matthew 13:24-30,36-43; Psalm 92:7

Scriptures Cited on Page 4 of this thread...

Heart can be like figurative "radio telescope" to detect Jehovah's love: Proverbs 4:23

Prayer that the figurative "eyes of your heart" are opened to the light: Ephesians 1:15-19

Jehovah's holy spirit, though invisible like "infrared", can still guide us if we "see" it: Psalm 119:105

Jehovah draws hearts to Him by means of that "invisible" gravitational spirit force of love: John 6:44,65; Matthew 16:17; John 16:27; Hosea 11:4

We have to "circumcise" our hearts in order to be sensitive enough to the spirit: Romans 2:29; Deuteronomy 10:16; Deuteronomy 30:6; Jeremiah 4:4; (negative example of uncircumcised hearts at Acts 7:51)

To bear pain of "circumcision of the heart" we need God's help: Philippians 4:13

Need heart of a young child to truly understand Jehovah and His Word: Mark 10:15; Luke 18:17; Matthew 11:25-27; Luke 10:21-22

Example - to understand Jehovah's reaction to census sin, need heart of child that recognized Jehovah does not change, He hates abuse and the people of David's time had allowed abuse: 1 Chronicles 21:1-15; Deuteronomy 32:4; Leviticus 26:1-33; Deuteronomy 18:10; Jeremiah 32:35; Leviticus 18:1-30

Jehovah hates child abuse and all other kinds of abuse, He will take vengeance: Romans 12:19; Hebrews 10:30; Deuteronomy 32:35; Revelation 16:4-7

Many little sheep have been stumbled by those taking the lead in the organization but Jesus will throw down from their place the ones causing the stumbling: Luke 17:1,2; Mark 9:42; Matthew 18:1-7; Revelation 18:21

All the bad elements in the organization will "melt" just as Jehovah washed away all those taking the lead in bad things in the past by means of a flood: 2 Peter 3:5-16; 2:1-3, 13-19; Jude 11-13; 2 Timothy 2:20; 2 Timothy 3:1-13; Revelation 8:8,9

Jesus will use the angels to remove any Jezebel-like or Baalam-like wicked elders from their lording it over the flock during the great tribulation: Matthew 8:12; Matthew 25:30; Luke 13:28; Matthew 22:13, Revelation 2:5,14,15,20-23; 3:1-3

Scriptures Cited on Page 3 of this thread...

Wolves in congregation are some of the elders: Matthew 7:15; Acts 20:29; Jude 10-13

Bossy elders who kick others out of the congregation are bad: 3 John 9,10

Some bad elders meddle by making non-scriptural rules in the congregation and not working secularly: 2 Thessalonians 3:6-12

Jesus did not accept titles from men or fancy prominence: John 5:41-44

Real glory is related to real love and light, burning love in heart from Jehovah's loving holy spirit: Luke 24:32

Moses was so close to Jehovah's love/glory that he emitted light: Exodus 34:29-35

Love is like an inextinguishable burning bright fire, warm and strong, like Jehovah, who is the Source of Love: Song of Solomon 8:6,7

John spoke of love: 1 John 1:2-7; 2:9-12; 3:1,10-24; 4:7-21

We reflect Jehovah's glory when we love: 2 Corinthians 3:18

False teachers in congregation worship God in vain when they teach false doctrines: Matthew 15:9; Mark 7:7

Jehovah loved us before we loved Him: 1 John 4:10

We are commanded to love others before they love us: John 13:34

Love does not have fear; don't be afraid to love people: 1 John 4:16-19

Fear of disappointing the governing body or fear of disappointing the crowd or others is an idol that prevents us from showing love: 1 John 4:21

Jehovah has affection for you: John 16:27

Scriptures Cited on Page 2 of this thread...

False teachers in congregation greedily exploit Jehovah's worshippers: 2 Peter 2:1-3

Jesus called false teachers snakes: Matthew 12:34

First seal opened: Revelation 6:1,2

Jehu offed Jezebel as soon as received throne: 2 Kings 9:1-37

False teachers in congregation saying "peace and security": 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5

In the conclusion of this system Jesus will clean congregation: Matthew 13:39-43

False teachers in congregation are like wolves: Matthew 7:15-20

Sixth bowl poured out, regarding Babylon's Euphrates protection removed: Revelation 16:12

Sixth trumpet, regarding angels untied from Euphrates: Revelation 9:13-21

Restraint presently from removing apostasy in organization: 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12

Angels ready to let go winds of destruction after anointed sealed: Revelation 7:1-3

Evidence of apostasy is saying "day of Jehovah" (aka enthronement of Jesus) invisibly started already before organization was cleaned: 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Scriptures Cited on Page 1 of this thread...

Box: The "Sevens" of Revelation

7 Seals/Thunders - Revelation 6:1-17; 8:1-6; 10:1-4

7 Trumpets - Revelation 8:6-13; 9:1-21; 10:7

7 Bowls/Plagues - Revelation 15:1; 16:1-21; 17:1-18

Jesus taught that our Love should Overcome our Prejudice: Luke 10:25-37

We must obey God as ruler rather than men: Acts 5:29

By their fruits you will recognize them: Matthew 7:16

I do not request you take them out of world: John 17:15

Paul's words regarding living in the world: 1 Corinthians 5:9,10

Paul's words regarding not eating with unrepentant at Memorial: 1 Corinthians 5:8

Jesus said love enemies: Luke 6:35-37

Pay back Caesar's things and God's things: Matthew 22:21

Jesus has authority: Matthew 28:18

Follow Jesus: 1 Peter 2:21; John 10:27; Matthew 10:38

Command to show love: John 13:34

False teachers exploit: 2 Peter 2:1-3

Christ slaved for others: Philippians 2:3-8

We must lower ourselves and minister to others: Matthew 10:25-28

A man is valuable, help him: Matthew 12:11-12

Regarding anointed who fall away: Hebrews 6:4-6

Anointed who fall away and deny love of the Christ: 1 John 2:18-21

28 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Yikes!

Haha, if you look at the "Dead Sea Scroll" picture real quickly it looks kinda like a 2x4...and all the Bible photos are kinda like a ton of bricks, lol...

I have some photos from touring the Bible museum...if you're interested...(the last two pictures are from a different exhibit there with the little Bible Simone Liebster read secretly during WWII when she was taken away from her parents - she hid it under the bed of one of the house mistresses and read it while she was supposed to be cleaning under the bed. Jehovah's Word and spirit strengthened her throughout that ordeal. She loved reading God's Word. I do, too.💖)

5 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

…. And while you are at it, make a picture book of the Dead  Sea Scrolls.

Careful what you ask for! lol...

I can go back and give the references for the scriptures cited in this thread...it won't take me long but I have to get something else done right now - I will try to have them posted later this evening...🙂

I will include scripture references from now on if it pleases you. ( @Witness expressed similar sentiments as to wondering why I don't include the chapter and verse all the time. I told her that Jesus didn't, since back then there were no divisions yet into chapter and verse, and that just because the Watchtower does it in their publications doesn't mean we have to.)

I am not against always putting the chapter/verse reference, I'm just lazy. 🙂 But I will include them from now on, if you wish.

(If I have quoted something in the past and you want me to clarify where it is from, I will, please just tell me...🌷)

Isaiah 28:21,22

Luke 21:14,15

Just now, Pudgy said:

Audrey, if I may ask … when you post scriptural references, is there a reason  you do not cite the source?

I just assumed everybody here knew more than me about where to find the scriptures because most everybody here is older than me, but I will include them if you want...I'm sorry - you know what they say when you "assume"...I will work on it!

(Hey, look, Governor Shapiro's office sent me back a hello! 😊 I thanked him for helping the little sheep - some of the ones who have been attacked by the "sharks"...)

I have to go for now...catch up with you later!🙂

7 minutes ago, boyle said:

You seem to be doing that for Christ. I wonder how he feels about you taking his office and misrepresenting his words while doing it.

I know how he feels about me. He knows I am in subjection to him. He is the one who pours out the holy spirit for Jehovah. I only speak the words he gives me regarding such things.

"It will result in your giving a witness.  Therefore, resolve in your hearts not to rehearse beforehand how to make your defense,  for I will give you words and wisdom that all your opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute."

In my KH, if you tell the elders the truth they will view you as a threat. They are out for figurative "blood" and don't stop until you are "gone."

"There is a generation whose teeth are swords

And whose jaws are slaughtering knives;

They devour the lowly ones of the earth

And the poor from among mankind."

(The thing is, they can't see Jehovah so they don't understand why I just keep laughing when they are trying to make me cry.😂) Jehovah turns it into a blessing. 

This sort of things happens in congregations all over the world. "But take your stand against him, firm in the faith, knowing that the same kind of sufferings are being experienced by the entire association of your brothers in the world." Jehovah will rise up.

"For Jehovah will rise up as at Mount Pe·raʹzim;

He will rouse himself as in the valley near Gibʹe·on,

That he may do his deed—his strange deed—

And that he may carry out his work—his unusual work.  

Now do not scoff, So that your bonds may not be further tightened,

For I have heard from the Sovereign Lord, Jehovah of armies,

That an extermination has been determined for all the land."