John 12.24to28

It'll be so good when Jesus brings all the sheep back together.

If I take the "absolute value" of all the red downarrows you've given me, that's a lotta love, lol 😆

Hi, @derek1956, I hope you are well today my brother. I am just curious...heaven knows I am used to getting "the red downarrow" (it's a collector's item, you know) and I understand it from MoiseRacette and Boyle and some others, but I'm just curious - do you not want the little sheep to all be gathered back to the fold? I'm not really sure I understand why you were negative, you have the right to be, but I do value your input and I am curious as to your reasoning.

That is an interesting website to check out. I had stumbled upon it once before. Truly, the little sheep are scattered all over the place, as described in Ezekiel 34. Thankfully Jehovah will gather all of us together at the appointed time! Some of the comments on that website are very insightful. Others are rather antiquated false teachings. I noticed on the "We Believe" section a "Chart of Ages" and also the following: "We are now living in the ‘time of the end...Jesus returned and has been invisibly present on earth since the early days of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society," (even though the Bible actually says Jesus has been invisibly present "all the days until the conclusion of the system of things," which means he has been invisibly present since he went back to heaven.) They have some specific ideas about the literal Jewish nation that are not in harmony with what the scriptures teach. (Generally they seem to adhere to some things that were in the older publications.) I did like this statement that they do believe: "It is wrong to SHUN or DISFELLOWSHIP brethren with honest different points of view," which makes sense when those "honest different points of view" are on matters of conscience. The entire modern "disfellowshipping process" has been overcomplicated. Thank you for sharing the link, @Matthew9969! It will take a miracle for Jesus to get all these sheep back together from all the places they've been scattered, and it will take a miracle to remove all the weedy teachings that the Devil has sown. Thankfully, Jesus is a miracle worker! "Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse." "The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen." (It's almost time for the harvest to begin.)

"It is because of Jehovah’s loyal love that we have not come to our finish, For his mercies never end. They are new each morning; your faithfulness is abundant. “Jehovah is my share,” I have said, “that is why I will show a waiting attitude for him." "So we have the prophetic word made more sure, and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place (until day dawns and a daystar rises) in your hearts. For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit." "Come, and let us return to Jehovah, For he has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us. He struck us, but he will bind our wounds. He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him. We will know, we will earnestly seek to know Jehovah. His going out is as certain as the dawn; He will come to us like a pouring rain, Like a spring rain that saturates the earth.” (Good night, you guys. May you rejoice in the sweet light of Jehovah's new day in the Morning.✨😌🌷) 🥰Praise Jehovah!💖

Nah, it's not the end of the thread as we know it. (Just the end of the world as we know it...) But I feel fine, how about you? (I always say, "I'm done" but then Jehovah always fools me...) "You have fooled me, O Jehovah, and I was fooled. You used your strength against me, and you prevailed. I have become a laughingstock all day long; Everyone ridicules me. For whenever I speak, I must cry out and proclaim, “Violence and destruction!” For me the word of Jehovah has been the cause of insults and jeering all day long. So I said: “I am not going to make mention of him, And I will speak no more in his name.” But in my heart it became like a burning fire shut up in my bones, And I was tired of holding it in; I could no longer endure it. For I heard many evil rumors; Terror surrounded me. “Denounce him; let us denounce him!” Every man wishing me peace was watching for my downfall: “Perhaps he will make a foolish mistake, And we can prevail and take our revenge against him.” But Jehovah was with me like a fearsome warrior." "Will two walk together unless they have agreed to meet? Will a lion roar in the forest when it has no prey? Will a young lion growl from its lair when it has caught nothing? Will a bird fall into a trap on the ground when there is no snare for it? Does a trap spring up from the ground when it has caught nothing? If a horn is blown in a city, do the people not tremble? If a calamity occurs in the city, is it not Jehovah who has acted? For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets. The lion has roared! Who will not be afraid? The Sovereign Lord Jehovah has spoken! Who will not prophesy?" "Come, now, you who say: “Today or tomorrow we will travel to this city and will spend a year there, and we will do business and make some profit,” whereas you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then disappears. Instead, you should say: “If Jehovah wills, we will live and do this or that.” (We will speak again, @boyle@Pudgyet al., Jehovah willing.) 🙂

"It is the blessing of Jehovah that makes one rich, And He adds no pain with it." I've never blessed the rains down in Africa, but I do pray you will get the blessing of living forever, to be able to take some time to do the things you never have...Zion's waiting there for you. "Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has seen such things? Will a land be brought to birth in one day? Or will a nation be born all at once? Yet, as soon as Zion went into labor, she gave birth to her sons. “Will I bring it to the point of birth and then not bring it forth?” says Jehovah. “Or would I cause the birth and then shut the womb?” says your God. Rejoice with Jerusalem and be joyful with her, all you who love her. Exult greatly with her, all you who are in mourning over her, For you will nurse and be fully satisfied from her breast of consolation, And you will drink deeply and find delight in the abundance of her glory. For this is what Jehovah says: “Here I am extending to her peace just like a river And the glory of nations like a flooding torrent. You will nurse and be carried on the hip, And you will be bounced on the knees. As a mother comforts her son, So I will keep comforting you; And over Jerusalem you will be comforted. You will see this, and your heart will rejoice, Your bones will flourish just like new grass. And the hand of Jehovah will become known to his servants, But he will denounce his enemies.” “For Jehovah will come as a fire, And his chariots are like a storm wind, To repay in furious anger, To rebuke with flames of fire. For with fire Jehovah will execute judgment, Yes, with his sword, against all flesh; And the slain of Jehovah will be many." I hope you choose the blessing rather than the malediction, dear beloved ones.💖 Since all six of you already know all this stuff, I will take my leave from this thread now. It was fun! Au revoir! Auf Wiedersehen!😘

That was one of my first languages. Now I only use it when I meet someone from the old country who can understand. (Like you, @boyle.) I don't go to that planet anymore. (I never did learn Klingon, though, although I do believe you are proficient in the language.) I am happy to now know more about a different language. "For then I will change the language of the peoples to a pure language, So that all of them may call on the name of Jehovah, To serve him shoulder to shoulder." But sometimes people think I am out of my mind when I speak. Oh, well. Jehovah knows what I am saying. He's the One who gives the words. "For if we were out of our mind, it was for God; if we are sound in mind, it is for you. For the love the Christ has compels us, because this is what we have concluded, that one man died for all; so, then, all had died. And he died for all so that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised up. So from now on we know no man from a fleshly viewpoint. Even if we once knew Christ according to the flesh, we certainly no longer know him in that way. Therefore, if anyone is in union with Christ, he is a new creation; the old things passed away; look! new things have come into existence. But all things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of the reconciliation, namely, that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not counting their offenses against them, and he entrusted to us the message of the reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.” The one who did not know sin, he made to be sin for us, so that by means of him we might become God’s righteousness."

There's already a theme song for that name, "Krypto"... "Krypto" does sound better than "Super Pudgy", but I think the name "Pudgy" is just right the way it is. (The only dog I ever knew who wore a cape was Underdog. But his cape was blue, not red. He had a different theme song.)

(It doesn't bother me if you can see in the dark by whatever means you choose. I already know that route. I'm used to it. There is someone higher who can see everything anyway.) "If you see any oppression of the poor and a violation of justice and righteousness in your district, do not be surprised about the matter. For that high official is being watched by one who is higher than he is, and there are others who are still higher than they are." I wish you would repent, dear @boyle. I would like to gain my brother. There is so much cool stuff to do in the future - with Jehovah the sky's the limit...so much better than parlor games.

(Hey, you know something really cool about Jehovah? Joseph was an exile when Jehovah let him understand some really cool stuff, Daniel was an exile when Jehovah let him understand some really cool stuff, and John was an exile when Jehovah let him understand some really cool stuff...kinda cool how Jehovah does that, huh! Praise Jehovah, our impartial God who exalts the lowly! He is the Protector of the weak and broken ones; He loves all the little discarded ones...Praise Jah!)

I have repented of many things. I used to live an immoral life and I abused alcohol. I repented of those things. I continue to repent of other things as I go about life. I sin every day, just like everyone else. I don't try to sin, but I am imperfect and thus I do sin and have to repent, just like everyone else. I don't claim to be someone I'm not. I am lowly, like the gist of some of the words in this song. (I do not drink alcohol any more at all, except to partake at the Memorial; I don't care if others drink but I do not recommend that anyone overindulge, so those words are not the ones I'm talking about...) Jesus' ransom is enough for lowly ones who repent.

I never said I was some kind of super person. "Superman" is make-believe. None of us are perfect. I am most definitely not perfect. I am very, very, very imperfect. Jesus was the only perfect person, and he didn't wear a red cape.

"I need not be considered! God will speak concerning Pharoah's welfare." When Joseph interpreted Pharoah's dreams, the 7 good stalks of grain and the 7 good cows were the same thing. The 7 bad stalks and 7 bad cows were the same thing. "The dream was given twice to Pharʹaoh because the matter has been firmly established by the true God, and the true God will soon carry it out." When Daniel interpreted Nebuchadnezzar's dream image and then when Daniel had the visions of the march of world powers, he had insight into the same situation just presented in different ways. Revelation presents 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls, 7 thunders, 7 plagues. The Bible shows they are the same thing presented in different ways. "The matter has been firmly established by the true God, and the true God will soon carry it out." Take, for instance, the sixth bowl of God's anger: "The sixth one poured out his bowl on the great river Eu·phraʹtes, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the rising of the sun." The river Euphrates was what protected Babylon from attack. The kings from the rising of the sun were the Medes and Persians, who were from east of Babylon. When it says "its water was dried up" it means that what is protecting religion will be removed. Regarding the sixth trumpet it says: "The sixth angel blew his trumpet. And I heard one voice from the horns of the golden altar that is before God say to the sixth angel who had the trumpet: “Untie the four angels who are bound at the great river Eu·phraʹtes.”" The angels are the ones holding back a restraint. They have been holding back the winds of destruction from Babylon the Great. (Paul also talked about the lawless one being done away with when that which exercises a restraint is removed.) After the sixth seal is opened it says: "After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise, having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads." The sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, the sixth bowl...these are all depicting in a slightly different manner the time when God allows the attack on Babylon the Great. The Bible shows it happens after the anointed are all sealed. Other Bible prophecies show it happens after the Devil is cast down from heaven, and that it is the UN who will be attacking religion. Revelation also shows that the situation of "Armageddon" isn't just the final part of the great tribulation, it's actually the name of the situation of the entire great tribulation. "...the Revealer of secrets has made known to you what is to happen. As for me, this secret was not revealed to me because I have greater wisdom than anyone living; rather, it was to make the interpretation known..." "The dream was given twice to Pharʹaoh because the matter has been firmly established by the true God, and the true God will soon carry it out." How much more so the things in Revelation will soon be carried out! Praise Jehovah.

I don't have a master's degree. I only have a "BA". (Although in retrospect, I think any degree that includes evolutionary theory should be called a "BS".) There are some people who have really nice false voices (aka falsettos). I think that many former Jehovah's witnesses have found a way to stay alive while separated from the organization at present. Jehovah has cared for them, even if they are unaware of it. Jehovah will gather all his little sheep at the appointed time. "Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah: ‘“As surely as I am alive,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “because my sheep have become prey, food for every wild beast of the field, for there was no shepherd, and my shepherds did not search for my sheep; rather, they kept feeding themselves and did not feed my sheep,”’ therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah. This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘I am against the shepherds, and I will demand an accounting of them for my sheep, and I will dismiss them from feeding my sheep, and the shepherds will no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouth, and they will no longer be food for them.’” “‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Here I am, and I myself will search for my sheep, and I will care for them. I will care for my sheep like a shepherd who has found his scattered sheep and is feeding them. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered in the day of clouds and thick gloom. I will bring them out from the peoples and collect them together from the lands and bring them into their land and feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams and by all the dwelling places of the land. In a good pasture I will feed them, and the land where they graze will be on Israel’s high mountains. They will lie down there in a good grazing land, and they will feed on choice pastures on the mountains of Israel.” “‘“I myself will feed my sheep, and I myself will make them lie down,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. “The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage, and the weak I will strengthen; but the fat one and the strong one I will annihilate. I will feed that one with judgment.”

Incorrect. That is your personal fable, lie and assumption. No it's not, sunshine. It's right in the Watchtower what they said.

Since Proverbs 21:18 says "The wicked one is a ransom for the righteous one" how can it be said Jesus, a righteous one, is a ransom for the wicked? Wicked ones harass the righteous. When Jehovah steps in and annihilates the wicked ones, then the righteous ones can have peace. Pharoah is a case in point. When Pharoah was removed, the Israelites had some peace. When Haman was removed, Mordecai and Esther had some peace. When the Nephilim were removed, Noah and his family had some peace. When Jehovah stepped in to annihilate those wicked ones, then the righteous had peace - they weren't being harassed anymore. Also the scales of justice demand "an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth". In mathematics, you have to balance the equation. If you multiply one side by 1/4th, you have to multiply the other side by 1/4th. You can't just do one side. It is a universal principle. There is an interesting function in mathematics known as taking the "absolute value" of an expression or number. If you take the absolute value of a negative number, it cancels out the negative. The ransom of Jesus does for us what the absolute value function does for a negative number. It turns it into a positive. Anyone who murders, kills, hates, sins against God and their fellow man, would normally deserve the same treatment according to the universal principle of balance and justice. However, because of God's love and wisdom, he used the ransom of His Son to provide a judicial means to cancel out the negative while still adhering to the universal principles of balance, like applying the "absolute value" function. Jesus was beat. He was tortured. He was harassed by demons. He was reproached by people. He was treated horribly even though he didn't deserve it. He was killed while labeled as a criminal. He was hung up on a stake. He took the punishment for the wicked as if he was the wicked one. He paid the ransom of the wicked for the wicked, so that anyone who wants to accept it doesn't have to pay the price demanded by the universal principles of justice and balance. They can benefit from the absolute value of the ransom. “He himself took our sicknesses and carried our diseases.” "Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, And he bore our pains. But we considered him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed." "For he was cut off from the land of the living; Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke." "But it was Jehovah’s will to crush him, and he let him become sick. If you will present his life as a guilt offering, He will see his offspring, he will prolong his days, And through him the delight of Jehovah will have success. Because of his anguish, he will see and be satisfied. By means of his knowledge the righteous one, my servant, Will bring a righteous standing to many people, And their errors he will bear. For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors." Any wicked who want to can benefit. Jesus said they could. He has the authority to pour out the application of his blood, its absolute value. He has the authority to forgive sins. The wicked who want to benefit just have to try to stop hurting themselves and others. They have to try to be sorry about the bad things. They just have to do their best to keep following Jesus. (He isn't healing anybody at present, but that part will come soon.) He will help them. He loves them. He didn't go through all that suffering for perfect people. He did it because he loves the ones that didn't turn around yet. He did it before they repented. There is still time for them to turn around. But at a certain point during Armageddon, it will be too late. We're not at that time yet. There is still time right now. "Love hopes all things."

So, the thunder, lighting and the roaring rain didn't wake anyone? Doesn't sound like commonsense to me. I wasn't there when the Flood happened. Were you there? Jehovah could have put the people to sleep in death first and then swept them away. (Dead people sleep soundly during thunderstorms.) Also, at different times Jehovah has "closed up the womb" of women. Like when "Jehovah had made all the women of the house of A·bimʹe·lech barren because of Sarah, Abraham’s wife." The Bible record shows that Noah and his wife didn't have more kids right away after Shem Ham and Japheth. It also shows that Shem, Ham, Japheth and their wives didn't have kids right away either, even though people were quite prolific in those days. Jehovah knew the date He scheduled for the Flood. Is it possible there were no little kids or babies around when the Flood came, because Jehovah had closed up the wombs of all the women those fifty years they were building the ark? We don't know. We weren't there, but we do know Jehovah. "Then Abraham approached and said: “Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are 50 righteous men within the city. Will you, then, sweep them away and not pardon the place for the sake of the 50 righteous who are inside it? It is unthinkable that you would act in this manner by putting the righteous man to death with the wicked one so that the outcome for the righteous man and the wicked is the same! It is unthinkable of you. Will the Judge of all the earth not do what is right?” "Then Jehovah said: “If I find in Sodʹom 50 righteous men in the city, I will pardon the whole place for their sake.”" ""Say to them, ‘“As surely as I live,” declares Jehovah, “I will do to you just what I have heard you speak! In this wilderness your corpses will fall, yes, the whole number of you from 20 years old and up who were registered, all of you who have murmured against me. None of you will enter into the land that I swore to have you reside in except Caʹleb the son of Je·phunʹneh and Joshua the son of Nun. And I will bring in your children, who you said would become plunder, and they will get to know the land that you have rejected."" "But Jehovah said: “You felt sorry for the bottle-gourd plant, which you did not work for, nor did you make it grow; it grew in one night and perished in one night. Should I not also feel sorry for Ninʹe·veh the great city, in which there are more than 120,000 men who do not even know right from wrong, as well as their many animals?" "For I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he."

Jesus illustrated it in the gospels... RPReplay_Final1682433091.mov RPReplay_Final1682433374.mov

The blood of the Christ is superior to the decrees of any organization on earth. The Father does not want to destroy His own kids. He will protect His children, and if some of the kids decide they will not turn around in actions that will harm themselves and others, well then, yes, God will remove those ones - but it's not His first option as if on some checklist or flowchart. He is a Real Father. To understand "repentance" means thinking about it the way a father would, not the way a business manager would. The illustration about the prodigal son shows the father ran to embrace his son while the son was a long way off before the son had a chance to "show repentance". The son didn't have to sit silently for a year and have nobody talk to him. The son didn't even say "I'm sorry" yet when the father ran to embrace him. Jesus was explaining what Jehovah is like. Jehovah is not like the way the FDS treats people.

Haha...actually first Jesus has to throw all the trash out of heaven (Satan hasn't been cast down here yet.) "Trash out of heaven" makes me think of this song...

It depends which god they worship. Some of the wicked stand in a shrine. Some of the wicked stand in a church. Some of the wicked stand in a casino. Some of the wicked stand in a KH. All the gods of that are not Jehovah are unrealities. "Look! All of them are a delusion. Their works are nothing. Their metal images are wind and unreality." Jehovah is the only True God, and He knows those who belong to Him, wherever they are. "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand." Okay, I know it as the word "transferred" but I see what you are saying. Enoch died. The English word "transferred" is just showing the same idea as what God did to Moses and Aaron when they died. When Hebrews says "so as not to see death" it just means the throes of death. Illustratively it might be likened to when a vet puts an animal to sleep. Jehovah caused Adam to go to sleep when he did "surgery" and removed his rib to make Eve. (Kind of like what a geneticist might do today for some kind of cloning thing.) Jehovah caused the soldiers to fall into a sleeplike state when Peter escaped from prison. God caused the men of Saul's army to sleep an extra sleepy sleep when David and Abishai went in to get the spear and water jug. The Elijah instance is a totally different thing. He just went to another physical location, but he was still alive on earth. More wordplay, it's okay. I'm used to twisting and turning objectives. WE, those of us that are dedicated in Christ, and Jehovah's witnesses, should have been explained that from the get go. No, early in this thread I asked how many people @boyle counts as and you said "3"! No worries. If you were around in my time, it would have been better not to have been one. Too many apostate bethelites for my standard of God's justice. What do you really believe about everything, @boyle?

So, God didn't judge the Israelites? God didn't judge the Jews? The final judgment hasn't happened yet. Those Israelites and Jews will be resurrected and under better circumstances be given an opportunity to listen and obey God's simple and refreshing ways. "And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire."

New Light! Hmm! Do tell. Where are these new scrolls you are talking about? Fake light that has been taught for a long time... "New directions were needed by the nation of Israel under Moses and later by the Christian congregation under “the law of the Christ.” Likewise, the Bible informs us that scrolls will be opened to give us directions in new world living. (Read Revelation 20:12.) These scrolls will most likely set forth Jehovah’s requirements for mankind at that time. By studying these, all people, including resurrected ones, will be able to know God’s will for them. These scrolls will surely give us further insight into Jehovah’s mind. Guided by an ever-increasing understanding of God’s inspired Word along with what will be revealed in the new scrolls..." (wt March 2016 page 22) Revelation 20 is not talking about some kind of new scriptures from God in the future. In the Bible, the word "scrolls" doesn't just mean Bible books. Scrolls were used to document and record non-Biblical things too. The secular records of kings were recorded in scrolls. Messages were sent on scrolls. In visions there were "flying scrolls"... It's the context that shows what kind of scroll is being talked about. Here is that verse in context: "And I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. From before him the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire." "Scrolls were opened." It means the records books were opened. It's talking about judgment in context, so these are record scrolls. "But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life." This is another record scroll or book. It is a record of who will keep living. "The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds." In other words, for a time during the 1,000 years, people will have the chance to show if they want to obey God. They will have some time to repent. If they build up a record of not wanting to change and obey, that is their "things written in in the scrolls according to their deeds." That is their record of their deeds. The FDS teaches that the "scrolls" mean some person is going to be writing down new books of the Bible that will be used in the 1,000 year reign, but that's not in harmony with the rest of the scriptures.

Thank you! Good night.😌